I think that Canada may be a little too "Multicultural"
- Thread starter Chiliagon
- Start date
Canada doesn't have a universal way of living. we've always been a multicultural society, french/english, white/native... we've always had vastly different cultures living in this country.
ya I get that, it's just that it screws everything else up. I don't mind when people want to come and live here.
they just need to understand that until you're a citizen, you don't get to tell us what we should change.
they just need to understand that until you're a citizen, you don't get to tell us what we should change.
As long as no one is bring harm to anyone else, and everyone is treated with mutual respect then they are already adapting to our way of living. And this doesn't appear to be hindering any mutual respect as you can still call it Christmas even if they call it Festivus.
What do you mean?
So? You said you wish we were like the US, the US is a melting pot, and they have folks blustering about the War on Christmas, Happy Holidays, Winter Carnivals....
Melting pot, multiculturalism, what's in a name? People will do what they do. In second, third, fourth generations, very little remains unless people remain completely isolated from secular society. Language, customs, culture, it all gets diluted in the end.
Ever think about Christopher Columbus's first name. Divine intervention?
Memo to self.
Must write PM and enquire why Canada is the only nation in the Americas that does not celebrate a Columbus Day holiday.
It would clash with our Thanksgiving. Besides, a Lief Erickson Day or John Cabot Day might be more fitting. Columbus was actually lost, he thought he was in India. He made four voyages, I wonder if he had it figured out where he was by the time he made the last trip.
The problem was a lack of transition between the melting pot, of the 1920-50s when everyone was encouraged to undergo Anglicization, and the state-directed multiculturalism or 'vertical mosaic', of the 1980s-present.
So a lot of native born Canadians were brought up ignorant of their roots and ancestral languages and this placed at an unfair disadvantage against immigrant groups in the country, effectively turning said people into children of the state.
Myself, I speak multiple languages and that is a criteria for me when making friends, namely because the alternative would be speak English and I would get hounded at by the superstitious children of state, who'll say I am not being politically correct or whatever the current insults are.
So a lot of native born Canadians were brought up ignorant of their roots and ancestral languages and this placed at an unfair disadvantage against immigrant groups in the country, effectively turning said people into children of the state.
Myself, I speak multiple languages and that is a criteria for me when making friends, namely because the alternative would be speak English and I would get hounded at by the superstitious children of state, who'll say I am not being politically correct or whatever the current insults are.
The former education minister in Alberta recently proposed getting rid of the separate school system, but it's not that easy because it is written into the Constitution Act. If one religion is written into the constitution, then perhaps they should all be included, or none should be included. Until change is made, apparently public and separate (Catholic) schools are what we have.
Former Alberta education minister calls for end of separate schools
I guess the fact that it was written into the Constitution Act, and the Alberta Act of 1905, it pretty much mean that those were the only two religions that populated some regions in Canada one hundred years ago.
Indeed, immigration has changed the face of Canadians and the religious practices. I'm first generation Canadian, and I'm one of those that adapted rather than attempted to transplant my former culture into this country. I think that is what people should do, but it won't happen.
I think it's quite possible to adapt to a new culture without completely abandoning familial language or traditions. I think the more important point is that new Canadians should at least learn English, and not even that is happening right now. There are many children attending public school where all communication has to go through the child because the parents can't speak a word of English.
That is exactly what many immigrants throughout the last 100+ years have done. That's no excuse for not adapting. Look at what has happened in France for a glimpse into what Canada could be facing in the next couple of decades. Europe has already tried letting people immigrate, and transplant their lifestyle, culture and values into closed communities ... it's a disaster. Canada can learn from those mistakes.
And what is our way of living? - trailer parks, Mickey Dee's, Timmy's, hockey???? What? Do you know what you are talking about? You sound too emotionally distraught to be logical.
Do you really think their kids or grand kids will be wearing that in ten years from now? I doubt it.
I don't know, but I have heard about teenage girls that are murdered by their families because they try to adapt to Canadian lifestyles. I guess it depends on whether the children are forced to marry into their religion at a young age ... which wouldn't surprise me.
The example I gave is clearly not a family that came to Canada to embrace Canada, but rather to transplant their way of life into some part of Canada. That is what happened in France, Sweden, Germany, and many European countries. It's a big problem.
In Sweden, new laws were implemented forcing women to wait until the age of 25 to marry because Muslim girls were being married off at a young age, and before they had a chance to get an education or even experience the culture of their country. Various religious groups were isolated, not integating. By delaying the age of marriage, it was hoped that the girls would get an education and become part of the society where they lived.
In the Netherlands a filmmaker was murdered because he said something about the Muslim religion that Muslims didn't like. As a result, Muslim religious leaders have to be educated in their religion in the Netherlands.
OK, a good brainstorm is always a good thing; that's how we learn and challenge ourselves.
OK, so you have no issue with immigration in principle at least. That turns out well seeing that the vast majority of Canadians are of foreign blood, at least in part.
I'm born in Canada to a mother of French blood spanning over four centuries on North American soil, and a father of mixed Irish and North American Aboriginal blood, though an immigrant to Canada born in England. I myself have been exposed to new ideas through friends, education and reading. This is nothing new as books have been translated between languages for millennia. It only appears to have occurred only 'lately' owing to our not having lived centuries. But by reading about the past, we can see it's nothing new.
This is nothing new either. Prior to European colonization, there was no Christmas on North American soil. It appeared only after the French arrived. Such changes are also not unique to the North American continent. At one point, the Christian Faith did not even exist at all. Later, many Christians in the Middle East adopted Islam. Today, nothing has changed on that front; just as in the past there has always been many religions to choose from, so the same remains today. I myself was raised as per my mother's Catholic Faith with my Anglican father's approval, yet have never professed the Christian faith at least since I was old enough to make up my own mind, in spite of my parents' disapproval. I have my own beliefs. Again, this is nothing new, with similar occurrences throughout history. After all, how could any religion supplant another without conversion. Conversion traces its history as far back as it is recorded.
I totally disagree with stores forbidding the use of phrases such as "Merry Christmas". In fact, seeing that we are guaranteed freedom of religion in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, such a prohibition is would likely be in conflict with Charter rights. Honestly though, I myself am unaware of any store forbidding the use of "Merry Christmas". I this a phenomenon only in your local area (Canada is big after all)? Do you have any evidence of stores actively prohibiting its use? Again, if that is the case anyway, then I totally agree that one's freedom of religion needs to be respected.
We need to consider though that it also goes both ways. Just as a Christian ought to be free to wish someone a marry or happy Christmas, a non-Christian ought to be equally free to wish someone a good day, evening, night, etc. Are you sure that Christians are being prohibited from saying 'Merry Christmas', and that it's not just a case of non-Christians choosing not to do so? Before we throw out accusations of suppression of freedom of religion, we'd first need to look at the statistics concerning the percentage of store workers who are Christian in the first place. If the percentage should be found to be high, then certainly we could question why they feel uncomfortable saying 'Merry Christmas'. But if it turns out to be low, then there would be our answer.
Now I can certainly agree that 'Happy Holidays' and 'holiday cheer' merely shows a lack of cultural knowledge. Anyone who knows that Christmas is a Christian holiday would either not celebrate it at all or celebrate it as a Christian holiday, and not a secular holiday. On Christmas day, I can handle someone wiching me a happy Christmas just as much as I can handle someone wishing me a good day/evening/etc. in that in neither case are they revealing their ignorance of the roots of Christmas. Once they turn to some secular holiday greeting, it just reveals how culturally ignorant they are.
Well, nowhere in the Bible does it say "thou shalt put up Christmas lights in December". In fact, did Mary and Joseph put up Christmas lights around the manger?
The sign of Christmas is everywhere. It's found in the heart of Christians who would not be Christian had it not been for the birth of Christ. If you're looking for Christmas in Christmas lights and in the greetings of non-Christians in shops, then you're looking in the wrong place.
Remember though that the Christian communion does not comprise Canadians only, just as not all Canadians, including myself, belong to the Christian communion. So this does not concern immigrants only. In fact, I've met many Canadian Aboriginals who professed the Baha'i Faith, and at least one who professed Islam, just as I've met immigrants who did profess the Christian faith. So really immigration is a totally separate and unrelated topic.
And perhaps most importantly, seeing that the One whose birth Christians commemorate at Christmas taught one universal Faith, the whole concept of nationalism stands in opposition to it. Looking at it that way, opposing immigration so as to preserve the Christian traditions means that the Christian spirit has died and that only the outer forms such as Christmas lights remain. If the goal is in fact to revive the spirit of the Christian Faith, then we must break down the barriers between the children of God just as the One whose birth Christians celebrate on Christmas day had taught, and must abandon placing such importance on mere outer forms of recent Christmas traditions.
Strange that. I was born and raised in Canada and have never witnessed anyone getting offended at being wished a merry Christmas. Unless it's a local thing?
How so?
yes, and they were even more violent towards the Aboriginals than we were in Canada, as if we weren't bad enough. Again, is it the outer forms of the Christian Faith you're trying to revive, or the spirit of the Faith? If it's the spirit, then certainly all the children of God are one family, in which case the very notion of immigration laws is anathema to Christian concepts.
Of course. And that's why English and French are so dominant and the Christian faith is still the predominant Faith in Canada. Had it not been for immigrants bringing their country with them, there would be no Christian Faith in Canada. Had we respected the local traditions, here in Ottawa we'd all speak Ojibwa, Algonquin or some other indigenous local language. You seem to be talking double standards here.
After all, why should an Algonquin Muslim be required to practice Christmas? And no, I'm not making this up. I actually met an Algonquin Muslim. What you are suggesting is that unless she's Christian, she's not a real native North American even if she traces her family roots on this soil for millennia. How Christian a sentiment is that?
At the end of the day while I do believe in the the Gospel, I have to say that one reason I do not profess the Christian faith is precisely owing to too many so called Christians being so caught up in the outer traditions of the Christian faith that its inner spirit appears to be dead in their hearts. it really is a shame because the Christian Faith in its pristine form truly is a beautiful religion in spirit. With the spirit dead, the outer forms mean nothing to me. Why would one want to keep the corpse of a religion alive and consider that corpse as more important that the spirit that animates the corpse? A true Christian would commemorate Christmas by putting the spiritual teachings of the Gospel into practice, not by worrying about outer forms like Christmas lights.
And I do mean all this with the utmost sincerity, and to end this, I wish you a merry Christmas.
Again, I've never in my life come across an immigrant who was offended at a sincere Christmas greeting. Are you sure this is not a local thing where you live?
The same thing happened in the sixties and seventies with the immigration of thousands of Hindus and Shiks. The first generation wore traditional clothing and everybody was worried they would not assimilate. Now they have or at least their children and grand children have. They also went through honour killings and a few still do but to a lesser degree with each passing generation. Did the original immigrants to this country adapt to the ways and dress of the indigenous people? No. Every new wave of Immigrants goes through this.
And by the way, I'd been invited to Christmas parties in China of all places, by Chinese Christian friends of mine. Surprisingly enough, one was even trying to convert me to the Christian Faith! I'd gone to Christmas mass and attended a Christmas party at the local church, with prayers and all. Also, many Christians in China, foreign or Chinese, can generally request the day off on Christmas or keep their kids out of school, no problem. I'd witnessed it. So your assertion that foreigners assimilate to local customs is false. I've witnessed plenty who kept practicing their traditions even when outside of Canada. So it really does go both ways. If Canadians abroad are free to practice their Faiths for the most part, why not others here?
Now I'm not saying there is true freedom of religion in China, but merely that Canadians in China generally do have at least some religious freedom.
Now I'm not saying there is true freedom of religion in China, but merely that Canadians in China generally do have at least some religious freedom.
Since I'm first generation Canadian, that means my parents were transplants. I can assure you they adapted and set an example for me. I think that many of us that are first generation Canadian expect new immigrants to do the same. If people want to come to Canada, presumably they want our lifestyle and values. If they don't want our lifestyle and values, why are they here? Health care system? Dual passports? Free trips out of Lebanon?