I think that Canada may be a little too "Multicultural"

[Machjo]

You're welcome, Gerry.

Dies Natalis Solis Invicti!

PS
Most people of all beliefs love Xmas - It's a secular celebration. I think lack of lights has more to do with an aging or cost-conscious community.

When I'd lived in the Jewish part of Montreal years ago, there was almost no sign of Christmas at all except for the odd apartment. But when we consider that there were probably Jews in Montreal when Montreal was still a part of New France, it would be foolhardy to assume that they're all immigrants and not third, fourth, fifth, sixth or even seventh-generation North-American Jews.

Some might even have been converted Jews (after all, the Jewish Faith is still a proselyte religion, even if les so than others.

 

[Spade]

One just has to read the proceedings from the House of Commons a century ago to see with what disdain some MPs held immigrants from Eastern Europe, Japan, and China, pointing to custom, dress, and race! I am glad were are discarding those prejudices! We are maturing...

 

[Ariadne]

Don't you get a bit nervous about what people are carrying underneath those top-of-the-head to toe black draping clothes?

 

[Cliffy]

Since I'm first generation Canadian, that means my parents were transplants. I can assure you they adapted and set an example for me. I think that many of us that are first generation Canadian expect new immigrants to do the same. If people want to come to Canada, presumably they want our lifestyle and values. If they don't want our lifestyle and values, why are they here? Health care system? Dual passports? Free trips out of Lebanon?

I am a first generation Canadian born Brit. When you look at the first generation Canadian born East Indians, you see mostly assimilated young people. You hardly notice that their skin is slightly darker than yours. Really, I think a lot of this stuff about Muslims is just hysteria whipped up by the media.

 

[Machjo]

I just want immigrants that are coming to this country to stop trying to change our own culture because it doesn't suit their culture where they originated.

if you come to this country to live here and earn a living here, then you have to learn to put up with what you see here.

it would be like me walking into your family home and going "oh I don't like that, needs to go.. I don't like this, gotta get rid of it, etc etc"

you'd likely tell me to get the F out and grab me by the collar and toss me out!

I'm a guest in your home, I have no right to criticize and tell you what should and should NOT be here in YOUR home.

that's what I feel that they are doing. come into OUR country and then telling us "oh you can't have that anymore, you can't do this anymore"

I have a question. Those people you'd come across who were offended at "Merry Christmas", how do you know they were immigrants in the first place?

And again, I'm still convinced this must be a local thing where you live, because I've never come across someone being offended at "Merry Christmas". Honestly, I myself am more annoyed at generic "Happy holiday" greetings, and quite honestly from my observations, I'm in a majority on that front. So where is this opposition to "Merry Christmas" coming from? I've never come across it myself.

 

[Ariadne]

I am a first generation Canadian born Brit. When you look at the first generation Canadian born East Indians, you see mostly assimilated young people. You hardly notice that their skin is slightly darker than yours. Really, I think a lot of this stuff about Muslims is just hysteria whipped up by the media.

In North America, it could be viewed as hysteria whipped up by media, but in Europe, it's media reporting real situations, real riots, real murders, and real cultural clashes within established Western European countries. Those are real problems that involve second and third generation immigrants.

I have a question. Those people you'd come across who were offended at "Merry Christmas", how do you know they were immigrants in the first place?

And again, I'm still convinced this must be a local thing where you live, because I've never come across someone being offended at "Merry Christmas". Honestly, I myself am more annoyed at generic "Happy holiday" greetings, and quite honestly from my observations, I'm in a majority on that front. So where is this opposition to "Merry Christmas" coming from? I've never come across it myself.

High schools don't have Christmas concerts anymore ... they are happy holiday concerts and Christian based music is no longer a part of the program.

 

[Machjo]

yea.

I just wish people would mind their own business .. I do know that some stores these days have said that they're going to forgo the whole PC christmas routine and are saying Merry Christmas .

I guess I hate to see traditions go down the tubes.

I am big on tradition and when groups of people bitch about something that they have no part of, it annoys the hell out of me.

Strangely enough, I agree with you here in part, as long as it's not imposed. Honestly, on Christmas day I'm likely to just say "hello", or "Good morning!", "Good afternoon!", or "Good evening!", simply because I don't profess the Christian Faith. However, if someone wishes me a "Merry Christmas!", I'll accept it in the spirit it was offered and wish it to them in return.

So I do agree that the whole generic "Happy holiday" has to go, out of respect for Christians. They do have aright to their religious holiday and it's not up to us to subvert it and force it into a secular holiday. If we don't want to celebrate Christmas, then the best thing to do is leave it alone.

This said, I would have a big issue with a store forcing its staff to say a religious greeting such as "Merry Christmas" just as I'd have an issue with the same shop prohibiting them from doing so. In this country we have freedom of religion, and it should be up to each staff member to decide for himself as per his religious convictions. In fact, I'm sure the Charter would agree to that.

 

[Cliffy]

Don't you get a bit nervous about what people are carrying underneath those top-of-the-head to toe black draping clothes?

Cellulite, sagging breasts,stretch marks....

 

[Machjo]

ya but with a Melting pot, you come to our country, you should try to adapt to our way of living. in order to be able to thrive you have to learn to adapt to our way of living.

Why? We didn't adapt, did we? Had we adapted ourselves, we'd be having this conversation right now in Algonquin, or Innuinaqtun, or Cree, Blackfoot, or some other language right now and not English. So the simple fact that we're having this discussion in English shows how miserably we failed to assimilate ourselves. Pot, meet kettle.

 

[Spade]

In North America, it could be viewed as hysteria whipped up by media, but in Europe, it's media reporting real situations, real riots, real murders, and real cultural clashes within established Western European countries. Those are real problems that involve second and third generation immigrants.


High schools don't have Christmas concerts anymore ... they are happy holiday concerts and Christian based music is no longer a part of the program.

Canada is viewed by several European countries as a model where a cosmopolitan society functions with reasonable harmony.

Separate Catholic and Separate Protestant schools still do, but Christian proselytizing in a public-school setting is inappropriate.

 

[Machjo]

Canada is viewed by several European countries as a model where a cosmopolitan society functions with reasonable harmony.

Separate Catholic and Separate Protestant schools still do, but Christian proselytizing in a public-school setting is inappropriate.

You bring up a good point regarding separate schools. I can certainly accept certain constitutional protections for the religious majority of a country, such as Christians in Canada. That's a far cry though from trying to impose the saying of religious greetings on the general population.

And even as far as granting religious communities special rights, there has to be limits there, and I think our BNA goes too far with the separate school system. Maybe requiring students to learn about the Christian Faith in school ought to be more than enough, without of course imposing any belief on them.

 

[Spade]

Don't you get a bit nervous about what people are carrying underneath those top-of-the-head to toe black draping clothes?

If you're referring to unwashed overweight bikers in black leathers, yeah!

 

[Cliffy]

In North America, it could be viewed as hysteria whipped up by media, but in Europe, it's media reporting real situations, real riots, real murders, and real cultural clashes within established Western European countries. Those are real problems that involve second and third generation immigrants.



High schools don't have Christmas concerts anymore ... they are happy holiday concerts and Christian based music is no longer a part of the program.

Public schools are not Christian, they are secular. Many of the students are non-Christian. Why should they be indoctrinated into a religious holiday? Christmas was borrowed from pagan Winter Solstice celebrations anyway. I don't know if you noticed but Canada is not a Christian country, it is a secular, multi-cultural country with separation of church and state.

And if what European countries are experiencing starts to happen over here, I fully expect that Canadian laws will be enforced, if not by law enforcement agencies, by the citizenship. In the US in particular, I can foresee lynchings making a comeback.

 

[Ariadne]

Why? We didn't adapt, did we? Had we adapted ourselves, we'd be having this conversation right now in Algonquin, or Innuinaqtun, or Cree, Blackfoot, or some other language right now and not English. So the simple fact that we're having this discussion in English shows how miserably we failed to assimilate ourselves. Pot, meet kettle.

There was no unified, identifiable, civilized culture when Europeans arrived. Would you prefer that original immigrants lived in Teepees and waited for some tribe to figure out how to build a house, or that they go ahead an build an architectural marvel?

 

[Spade]

 

[Ariadne]

Canada is viewed by several European countries as a model where a cosmopolitan society functions with reasonable harmony.

Separate Catholic and Separate Protestant schools still do, but Christian proselytizing in a public-school setting is inappropriate.

The only reason there is reasonable harmony is because the country is huge and even the polygamists have staked out their own territory. If all of us were stuffed into a tiny country, like some European countries, we'd see the same problems.

That would be the basis for European society, but Canada was nothing like that when immigrants first arrived. Canada was teepees and igloos.

 

[Cliffy]

The only reason there is reasonable harmony is because the country is huge and even the polygamists have staked out their own territory. If all of us were stuffed into a tiny country, like some European countries, we'd see the same problems.


That would be the basis for European society, but Canada was nothing like that when immigrants first arrived. Canada was teepees and igloos.

Actually, tipis were a prairie cultural phenomenon. There were hundreds of cultures here (talk about multi-culturalism). The Interior Salish people lived in semi-underground, geo-thermal heated pit houses. Back east you had long houses and on the west coast you had large communal housing made from hand split cedar boards. Some of these cultures were every bit as civilized as European cultures and they were much cleaner than most Europeans at the time.

 

[Tonington]

That would be the basis for European society, but Canada was nothing like that when immigrants first arrived. Canada was teepees and igloos.

So what? You want to have your cake and eat it too. Just because the indigenous societies were not what the Europeans brought with them doesn't mean the Europeans were any better. The locals had agriculture, they had music, they had art, they had politics, they had language.

In fact this rationalization of yours is precisely what you appear to be suspicious of when new immigrants bring their cultural and societal norms with them.

 

[Trotz]

Europeans displaced the First Nations; much like the First Nations, who came across the Bering Straight, displaced and intermarried into indigenous populations on the continent.


The actual term indigenous is a bit ironic, considering that Europeans themselves, much like the "Native North Americans", are not indigenous Europeans but, according to anthropology, originated in Central Asia.

And territories do change hands a lot.

In all effective reasoning, Northern Africa was once in fact Southern Europe, at least until the Arab-Muslim crusade in the 800s / 900s (similar to European conquest of North America) that otherwise resulted in mass unprecedented genocide. Much like the Mongol and Tatars, originating in China, effectively genocided everything in their path and probably would have gone as far as Northern Africa if weren't stopped.

 

[taxslave]

Where Christmas is concerned, point your attention to atheists. They are one of the groups making the biggest stink about the celebration of Christ's birth.

Considering the fact that christmas was a pagan holiday to celebrate winter solstice that the christians took over in their zeal to control the masses do you blame the atheists? In any event it is not so much atheists that are against your religious holidays, rather it is members of other religions that use our poorly written charter to claim they are discriminated against plus a few of the more waco christian? cults like the JWs that don't do christmas and birthdays etc although they don't mind working those stats and getting triple time. The PC crowd laps all this up and claims we must be mindful of offending anyone completely forgetting that in their rush to bland they are offending those whose religious holiday it is.