"I said I'm not a man, I'm transgender."

[Serryah]

A lot of the "weird creepy guys" who say they're TG are people who didn't get HRT (Hormone replacement therapy) when they were young. Meanwhile a lot of TG are starting to pass today because of the availability of HRT.

That said I can understand why a lot of people would be upset if an older TG person were to show up and claim to be TG but don't look like it. For these people I feel sorrier for them as they won't have the "ease" the younger TG generation will with life.

 

[Cliffy]

I think I'm trans-species. I feel like an alien in a human body. The feeling gets stronger every day I spend on these forums. Is there a cure for that?

 

[gerryh]

I think I'm trans-species. I feel like an alien in a human body. The feeling gets stronger every day I spend on these forums. Is there a cure for that?

and I think you're ignorant, making light of a serious societal problem. That being the amount of ignorance and bigotry that we still have in the 21st century.

 

[JLM]

and I think you're ignorant, making light of a serious societal problem. That being the amount of ignorance and bigotry that we still have in the 21st century.

I think Cliffy likes to joke. -

I think I'm trans-species. I feel like an alien in a human body. The feeling gets stronger every day I spend on these forums. Is there a cure for that?

Maybe go for a week's holiday down to New Denver! Nothing like a change of bright lights!

 

[petros]

I followed the link provided and found nothing that I could really base an opinion on other than the picture provided looks like a young woman. If that is the individual and if this individual appeared in a bridal shop looking this way I don't see why anyone would get their back up and ask the person to leave. However, I have seen people who claim to be transgender and really just look like creepy men who like to wear womens clothing. While this might seem perfectly okay, I could understand someone feeling very uncomfortable. Without more information its hard to sit in judgment one way or the other.

Edited to add: I watched the video on CBC News. I'm still not sure where to come down on this one.

Toontown was founded by wingnut christians and they are still as wingnutty as ever.

The 2 years I lived there for grad school were the two longest, most bizarre and uncomfortable in my life.

The place just has bad mojo and utterly lacks feng shui. There is zero flow of the positive energy to make it a vibrant exciting city with alignment.

UofS was great but life beyond that sucked asss

 

[Sal]

A lot of the "weird creepy guys" who say they're TG are people who didn't get HRT (Hormone replacement therapy) when they were young. Meanwhile a lot of TG are starting to pass today because of the availability of HRT.

That said I can understand why a lot of people would be upset if an older TG person were to show up and claim to be TG but don't look like it. For these people I feel sorrier for them as they won't have the "ease" the younger TG generation will with life.

but they are older and wiser and not ususally in your face with it since they are not fighting for anything other than to be who they are...usually they arrange something with the store and come in after hours which is easily accommodated. So do straight men who have a public image to uphold and like to cross dress. Easily accommodated because they are highly cooperative and understand the discomfort. They are not ones to run to the press.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Toontown was founded by wingnut christians and they are still as wingnutty as ever.

The 2 years I lived there for grad school were the two longest, most bizarre and uncomfortable in my life.

The place just has bad mojo and utterly lacks feng shui. There is zero flow of the positive energy to make it a vibrant exciting city with alignment.

UofS was great but life beyond that sucked asss

So Toontown exists. Beyond the Bugs Bunny Road Runner Hour. Or was that Roger and Jessica Rabbit?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I think I'm trans-species. I feel like an alien in a human body. The feeling gets stronger every day I spend on these forums. Is there a cure for that?

You call that body human?

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

That said I can understand why a lot of people would be upset if an older TG person were to show up and claim to be TG but don't look like it. For these people I feel sorrier for them as they won't have the "ease" the younger TG generation will with life.

It's certainly not as black and white as some might think.

 

[Sal]

It's certainly not as black and white as some might think.

you are right it is not but it could be if handled correctly

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

you are right it is not but it could be if handled correctly

I'm not so sure. I wasn't there. It could have been exactly as this person stated or the shop keeper may have had real concerns about making paying customers uncomfortable because: some guy who wasn't dressed as a woman, maybe didn't look like a woman at the time and wanted to try on wedding dresses.

Without actually seeing how the event unfolded it's really hard to make a fair judgment.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Seems to me the easy way to handle this is as a case of sex discrimination. It's illegal to discriminate on the basis of sex in Canada, ain't it? OK, so who cares if he's transgender, or gay, or feels that he/she is actually a brontosaurus trapped in the body of a man that's being changed into the body a woman? He wants a wedding dress. The shop sells wedding dresses. Discrimination is illegal. End of argument.

 

[captain morgan]

Seems to me the easy way to handle this is as a case of sex discrimination. It's illegal to discriminate on the basis of sex in Canada, ain't it? OK, so who cares if he's transgender, or gay, or feels that he/she is actually a brontosaurus trapped in the body of a man that's being changed into the body a woman? He wants a wedding dress. The shop sells wedding dresses. Discrimination is illegal. End of argument.

Those same rights allow for things like shop owners being able to refuse service at their discretion.

I'm with RCS on this. There is some information missing in the article relative to the shop owners perspective

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Those same rights allow for things like shop owners being able to refuse service at their discretion.

I'm with RCS on this. There is some information missing in the article relative to the shop owners perspective

Same's true here. "The management reserves the right to refuse service to anyone." And that's all well and good, except if the decisional body decides that the management refused service on the basis of discrimination. Then it's illegal.

And I agree with you and RCS. The article has (as the press usually does) included all the information except what is needed to get a full, balanced picture of the case.

 

[Sal]

I'm not so sure. I wasn't there. It could have been exactly as this person stated or the shop keeper may have had real concerns about making paying customers uncomfortable because: some guy who wasn't dressed as a woman, maybe didn't look like a woman at the time and wanted to try on wedding dresses.

Without actually seeing how the event unfolded it's really hard to make a fair judgment.

if I went into a men's store I doubt there would be a problem with me wanting to try on a suit...if handled properly they would not just throw me into a change room near 2 other guys...I am certain you are mostly likely right that the shop owner did have concerns about other clients being uncomfortable...that doesn't mean they would have been.

There are quiet times; an appointment could have been made, or a change room found near the end. Bridal shops have huge change rooms to accommodate gown sizes with trains...she would not even have to come out to the main pedestal.

There are always options. At least we were always able to accommodate in the past regardless of the situation thus I have no compassion for the owner other than she either did not know the correct etiquette (which in today's world is inexcusable) or she chose to show her power to the wrong client.

 

[captain morgan]

Same's true here. "The management reserves the right to refuse service to anyone." And that's all well and good, except if the decisional body decides that the management refused service on the basis of discrimination. Then it's illegal.

Funny that the allowance exists to refuse service on a subjective basis is in itself, the ability to discriminate.

A big catch-22 in terms of whose rights trump the others.

And I agree with you and RCS. The article has (as the press usually does) included all the information except what is needed to get a full, balanced picture of the case.

I'm curious about why the shop refused to allow him to try on the garments... There has to be some reason that touched-off the issue in the first place

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Funny that the allowance exists to refuse service on a subjective basis is in itself, the ability to discriminate.

A big catch-22 in terms of whose rights trump the others.

As I understand it, it goes back to the pre-civil rights times. Used to be you could refuse service to anyone for being dirty, smelly, offensive, abusive, black, brown, yellow, red, female, &c. When they made the laws saying that black/brown/yellow/red/female was illegal as a basis for refusing service, they had to find a way to keep dirty/smelly/offensive/abusive as a proper basis for refusal of service. Is it a loophole? Yeah, it is. But it's necessary. I used to do some discrimination work, and I spent a substantial chunk of my time explaining to people "it's not enough that they refused you and you're a minority, to make the case you have to demonstrate that they refused you BECAUSE you're a minority."

I'm reminded of an old episode of Murphy Brown, where Candance Bergen is getting into it with Ed Asner. At one point she snaps "You're against me because I'm a woman!" Ed just sits back in his chair and laughs, and says "I'm a card-carrying member of NOW. I just don't like YOU!"

I'm curious about why the shop refused to allow him to try on the garments... There has to be some reason that touched-off the issue in the first place

Yep. If the shopowner can demonstrate that the customer (I dare not say "he" or "she") was abusive or offensive from the git-go, the shopowner should win. If it's a case of "but. . . but. . . you're a man!" the shopowner should lose.

 

[Sal]

Yep. If the shopowner can demonstrate that the customer (I dare not say "he" or "she") was abusive or offensive from the git-go, the shopowner should win. If it's a case of "but. . . but. . . you're a man!" the shopowner should lose.

I am thinking the shop owner should have kept her mouth shut:

When contacted Thursday by CBC News, the bridal shop owner, Jenny Correia, said she stands by her decision.
"To me it doesn't matter," Correia said. "He looked like a man. There was quite a few brides in the store. If you see a man trying on dresses, you're going to feel uncomfortable."

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

if I went into a men's store I doubt there would be a problem with me wanting to try on a suit...if handled properly they would not just throw me into a change room near 2 other guys...I am certain you are mostly likely right that the shop owner did have concerns about other clients being uncomfortable...that doesn't mean they would have been.

There are quiet times; an appointment could have been made, or a change room found near the end. Bridal shops have huge change rooms to accommodate gown sizes with trains...she would not even have to come out to the main pedestal.

There are always options. At least we were always able to accommodate in the past regardless of the situation thus I have no compassion for the owner other than she either did not know the correct etiquette (which in today's world is inexcusable) or she chose to show her power to the wrong client.

That's the stickler for me. How was it handled. How did this individual act, how did they look, I'm not saying they weren't within their right I just don't have all the facts.

 

[Sal]

That's the stickler for me. How was it handled. How did this individual act, how did they look, I'm not saying they weren't within their right I just don't have all the facts.

agreed