Human foetus feels no pain before 24 weeks

[Tonington]

Tonington or JLM???? In response to whomever wrote the comment below:My response to you....Abstinence is failing human birth now and while we make pretty speeches about it - and comply with many of the strong religious teachings being lofted which hold weight with so many - but the fact is children are beingborn to younger and younger couples (or at least girls who are male-less).Denying the possibility of a future form of sterilization for the young which can last for a rational period of time or be negated by another administration of a "turn on" fertility injection doesn't seem too Mr. Wizard does it?We are gambling with millions of unwanted children - if you think of just one poorly developed continent - Afica - and the nations within - something must be planned to bring a fair beginning for as many newcomers to our world as possible - who can expect to have the gifts many of us enjoy(ed). What made us so special when compared to a young girl in Africa who was raped consistently by the adult males and nobody has any idea who the fathers are of her young brood which increases by one each year.And I have to add the ugly truth along with this - while we civilized societies run around strange lands with guns shooting at strangers. Way off base I know - but compare our rationale about birth control in ourbcivilized lands.

It was I.

I'm not denying the possibility, I'm just seconding the reality that Karrie brought up. That reality is that we don't have fool proof barriers to pregnancy that don't concurrently involve greater risk to future reproduction. It would be nice if we had an off switch, but that is going to necessitate advanced surgical techniques, or advanced biochemical manipulation. We don't have them now, and are not likely to have them soon.

In the meantime, real benefits can be realized by making concerted efforts to remove the stigmatization that comes along with unplanned pregnancies. That causes real damage right now. I don't think it's far fetched at all to make an association between that stigmatization and abortion. What's more, it leads to further stigmatization when the woman makes that choice.

That leads me to my pointed criticism of pro-life groups, or rather the most vocal pro-life groups. There is very little understanding between the advocates and the objects of the advocates obsession. If the majority of your contribution to this discussion is that abortion is bad/evil/murder, and those who make this choice are bad/evil/murderers, then you're not making enough of an effort to contribute to meaningful change. That person, those groups are simply perpetuating a stigmatization. I've not seen any kind of statistics for how many pro-life groups are actually out there spending money on counseling, spending time to make the kinds of contributions that would lead to fewer abortions.

Anyways, in the meantime, before we have the kind of technology that could make this a moot point, I think some people's energy would be better served on outreach, if the goal is to save the lives of the unborn. Outright demagoguery and aggressiveness doesn't win favour with many, it's only bullying that actually makes that work.

 

[Sаbine]

Sir JosephPorter,

It's already a well-established fact within the scientific community that the life of an individual begins at the zygote stage.

There's a list of decent scientific/medical textbooks citing it (below). It's a pro-life website, but the textbook selection is great.

_____________________________________________________________________


When Does Life Begin? Scientists Speak..

The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 6th ed. Keith L. Moore, Ph.D. & T.V.N. Persaud, Md., (Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1998, p. 2-18:

"[The Zygote] results from the union of an oocyte and a sperm. A zygote is the beginning of a new human being. Human development begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm ... unites with a female gamete or oocyte ... to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual."

******

Human Embryology & Teratology, Ronan R. O'Rahilly,
Fabiola Muller, (New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996), p. 5-55.

"Fertilization is an important landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed... Fertilization is the procession of events that begins when a spermatozoon makes contact with a secondary oocyte or its investments... The zygote ... is a unicellular embryo.."

******

Essentials of Human Embryology, William J. Larsen, (New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1998, p. 1-17.

"In this text, we begin our description of the developing human with the formation and differentiation of the male and female sex cells or gametes, which will unite at fertilization to initiate the embryonic development of a new individual. ... Fertilization takes place in the oviduct ... resulting in the formation of a zygote containing a single diploid nucleus. Embryonic development is considered to begin at this point... This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development."

******

Human Embryology, 3rd ed. Bradley M. Patten, (New York: McGraw Hill, 1968, p. 43.

"It is the penetration of the ovum by a spermatozoan and resultant mingling of the nuclear material each brings to the union that constitutes the culmination of the process of fertilization and marks the initiation of the life of a new individual."

******

Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2003. pp. 16, 2.

"Human begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm (spermatozoo developmentn) unites with a female gamete or oocyte (ovum) to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marked the beginning of each of us as a unique individual."

"A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo)."

******

T.W. Sadler, Langman's Medical Embryology, 10th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, 2006. p. 11.

"Development begins with fertilization, the process by which the male gamete, the sperm, and the femal gamete, the oocyte, unite to give rise to a zygote."

******

Keith L. Moore, Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2008. p. 2.

"[The zygote], formed by the union of an oocyte and a sperm, is the beginning of a new human being."

*******

J.P. Greenhill and E.A. Friedman Biological Principles and Modern Practice of Obstetrics (Philadelphia: W.B. Sanders, 1974), 17.

"The zygote thus formed represents the beginning of a new life."

******

Ronan O'Rahilly and Fabiola Miller, Human Embryology and Teratology, 3rd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 2001. p. 8.

"Although life is a continuous process, fertilization... is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new genetically distinct human organism is formed when the chromosomes of the male and female pronuclei blend in the oocyte."

******

William J. Larsen, Essentials of Human Embryology. New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1998. pp. 1, 14.

"Human embryos begin development following the fusion of definitive male and female gametes during fertilization... This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development."

******

Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3

"The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."

******

E.L. Potter and J.M. Craig Pathology of the Fetus and the Infant, 3d ed. (Chicago: Year Book Medical Publishers, 1975), vii.

"Every time a sperm cell and ovum unite a new being is created which is alive and will continue to live unless its death is brought about by some specific condition."

******

Kaluger, G., and Kaluger, M., Human Development: The Span of Life, page 28-29, The C.V. Mosby Co., St. Louis, 1974

"In that fraction of a second when the chromosomes form pairs, the sex of the new child will be determined, hereditary characteristics received from each parent will be set, and a new life will have begun."

******

Lennart Nilsson A Child is Born: Completely Revised Edition (Dell Publishing Co.: New York) 1986

"...but the whole story does not begin with delivery. The baby has existed for months before - at first signaling its presence only with small outer signs, later on as a somewhat foreign little being which has been growing and gradually affecting the lives of those close by..."

******

Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943

"Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism.... At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun.... The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life."

******

Carlson, Bruce M. Patten's Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3

"Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)... The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual."

******

 

[JLM]

HUMAN BEINGS[/B] after 23 weeks. Whether it is inside or outside the womb is irrelevant except to the legal system.

It doesn't matter, Ton. He's the one that keeps proving himself to be what he is ---------> :tard: by ignoring the evidence.

lol

Things are looking up, Anna, at least now it is life-before we were getting the b.s. that it doesn't come alive until it leaves the womb. But it's not human life.........:iconbiggrin::iconbiggrin::iconbiggrin: I've been trying to find out if it's cat, dog or whatever but to no avail so far.

 

[Kreskin]

I would encourage anyone who thinks they might be pregnant to try take this online test. It's an eye opener.



Free Online Pregnancy Test

 

[Ron in Regina]

I would encourage anyone who thinks they might be pregnant to try take this online test. It's an eye opener.



Free Online Pregnancy Test

 

[Sаbine]

Funny! Ha-ha!


____________________________




Online Pregnancy Test Results

Pregnancy detected! Congratulations, Sabine! You're "with child". Our remote testing system has detected that you're pregnant. The Miracle Of Life has begun! To see whether your baby is a boy or a girl, click the "View My Baby" button below.


Online Pregnancy Test: It's A Girl!

It's A Girl! sabine, you're going to be the proud parent of a baby girl, and just look- isn't she just so damn cute! Based on our remote test results, your beautiful baby girl will weigh about 7 lbs, 6 oz and have black hair and brown eyes. Truly a Wonder To Behold!
Would you like to know who the lucky father is? Our Genetic Validator module has processed that data and determined who the father must be. Click the "Who's The Daddy?" button to find out.


Online Pregnancy Test: The Daddy Is . . .

The Mailman Uh-oh, your dalliance with the mailman is catching up with you. How are you going to explain this 'Special Delivery' to your hubby?



Online Pregnancy Test Birth Certificate

Here's your Online Pregnancy Test Birth Certificate, all filled out and ready to print. Truly a document you'll treasure forever! If you don't like the name we picked out, just refresh the page to get a different one.

Congrats, Ron! :iconbiggrin:

 

[SirJosephPorter]

No it doesn't. It tells us that the professor of the class finds it acceptable. The professor then passes the relevant publisher information onto the registry and to the book store, so that students know which books to buy, and the university book store can have stock on-hand. I've never heard of a committee to pick out a textbook for any course. That would be a huge waste of time.

It can work in one of the two ways, Tonington. For some courses (especially for the specialized ones), the professor chooses the textbook.

However, the elementary courses (Chemistry 101, biology 101 etc.) are taught to hundreds of students, many of them from other departments. The elementary courses have a wide applicability and are required by many different disciplines. Here, in order to keep consistency, to make sure that all students are taught the same material, the department will choose a textbook for all the classes.

And that is the textbook that I am talking about. For such courses, they will choose only non controversial material. Here the emphasis is on absorbing the knowledge, and not applying the knowledge in a critical and meaningful way (that comes in more advanced courses).

Textbooks for such elementary courses are usually picked by the department.

Simple....someone who thinks women have a choice to abort a child or not.

Since you just said "no" you are not pro choice.

Good for you, you don't support murdering children because they may be an inconvenience.



There you go again....moving those goal posts around.

Man are you ever entertaining.:lol:

That may be your definition of pro choice, but most people don’t define pro choice that way. Pro life is somebody who is opposed all abortions, except to save the life of mother. That is the extreme, puritanical prolife position. But sometimes they compromise and regard those who oppose all abortions except in the case of rape and incest as also prolife.

In USA, the anti-abortion groups, Right to Life etc., will not endorse a candidate unless he opposes all abortions, except perhaps in the case of rape and incest. I assume the same here in Canada.

Anybody else is pro choice, and I am very much pro choice. So are most Canadians.

Sir JosephPorter,

It's already a well-established fact within the scientific community that the life of an individual begins at the zygote stage.

Quite impressive Sabine. But then you have quoted a prolife website, so naturally they will only give references that support their side. If you wish to look at both sides of the question, the following is a ogod website.

When does human life become a human personhood

Here it gives both pro choice and pro life position as to when human life begins.

Here is a quote from one of the pro choice lawyers:

"Whether or not abortion should be legal turns on the answer to the question of whether and at what point a fetus is a person. This is a question that cannot be answered logically or empirically. The concept of personhood is neither logical nor empirical: It is essentially a religious, or quasi-religious idea, based on one's fundamental (and therefore unverifiable) assumptions about the nature of the world." Paul Campos, professor of law at the University of Colorado. (2002)

We could give arguments back and forth on both sides, but the point is, there is no consensus on the subject. And unitl the scientific community developes a consensus, things will stay pretty much as they are.

 

[Sаbine]

SirJosephPorter,

Yes, it's a pro-life site, but as I said earlier it gives an impressive list of fundamental medical textbooks regarding the subject. It was merely convenient to refer to this list rather than spending the time I don't have on searching and retrieving the very same sources and making a very similar list. Your posting, on the other hand, only included a single quote of a university professor. If you look at the website in my previous message, you'll see that I refused to cite any quotes from scientists and medical doctors, and I did this for a reason - we want to refer to established facts based on research evidence and published in academic press, don't we?

On another note, although I'm not the person you replied to regarding choosing textbooks for the courses, I'd like to say that I never ever heard that departments would decide on the textbooks selection. In reality, professors make the decision solely and absolutely by themselves. They actually can go as far as not using any textbooks at all and base the course exclusively on their lecture notes and work in class. And it doesn't matter at all if it's a first year course or not, or if the students are from different programs (normally they are). Mandatory textbook selection in universities is widely practiced in some European countries, perhaps elsewhere, but not in Canada as far as I know.

 

[AnnaG]

It can work in one of the two ways, Tonington. For some courses (especially for the specialized ones), the professor chooses the textbook.

However, the elementary courses (Chemistry 101, biology 101 etc.) are taught to hundreds of students, many of them from other departments. The elementary courses have a wide applicability and are required by many different disciplines. Here, in order to keep consistency, to make sure that all students are taught the same material, the department will choose a textbook for all the classes.

And that is the textbook that I am talking about. For such courses, they will choose only non controversial material. Here the emphasis is on absorbing the knowledge, and not applying the knowledge in a critical and meaningful way (that comes in more advanced courses).

Textbooks for such elementary courses are usually picked by the department.

Irrelevant. If you wanted specifics about textbooks you should have specified that to begin with. You didn't. All you said was that you'd accept that life starts at conception if the CMA, AMA, etc. accepted that and if it was in textbooks.
People showed you textbooks and now we get the petty quibbling about what constitutes a textbook from you.

That may be your definition of pro choice, but most people don’t define pro choice that way. Pro life is somebody who is opposed all abortions, except to save the life of mother. That is the extreme, puritanical prolife position. But sometimes they compromise and regard those who oppose all abortions except in the case of rape and incest as also prolife.

Show us that your definition is the official one. Otherwise what you say is only your little opinion in a world of opinions.
I always thought the generally accepted definition of a pro-lifer was someone who opposed any abortions for any reason.
Personally, I define myself as pro-life (as opposed to anti-life, because I love life) AND pro-choice (because a woman's body is her responsibility).

In USA, the anti-abortion groups, Right to Life etc., will not endorse a candidate unless he opposes all abortions, except perhaps in the case of rape and incest. I assume the same here in Canada.

Yeah, well. Assumptions are what assumptions are.

So are most Canadians.

Pro-choice, yup.

Quite impressive Sabine. But then you have quoted a prolife website, so naturally they will only give references that support their side. If you wish to look at both sides of the question, the following is a ogod website.

When does human life become a human personhood

How do you know it is a good website? Because it suits you? Because it agrees with you? roflmao

Here it gives both pro choice and pro life position as to when human life begins.

Here is a quote from one of the pro choice lawyers:

"Whether or not abortion should be legal turns on the answer to the question of whether and at what point a fetus is a person. This is a question that cannot be answered logically or empirically. The concept of personhood is neither logical nor empirical: It is essentially a religious, or quasi-religious idea, based on one's fundamental (and therefore unverifiable) assumptions about the nature of the world." Paul Campos, professor of law at the University of Colorado. (2002)[/quote]Still quibbling. You dismiss Sabine's post b ecause it contains stuff from a pro-life source regardless of whether the content of her post is accurate or scientific. That's just foolish.

We could give arguments back and forth on both sides, but the point is, there is no consensus on the subject. And unitl the scientific community developes a consensus, things will stay pretty much as they are.

And that is just as foolish. As I pointed out earlier, it used to be scientific consensus that the universe was geocentric.
The conclusiion should be based on MERIT OF CONTENT rather than POPULAR OPINION.

 

[JLM]

Irrelevant. If you wanted specifics about textbooks you should have specified that to begin with. You didn't. All you said was that you'd accept that life starts at conception if the CMA, AMA, etc. accepted that and if it was in textbooks.
People showed you textbooks and now we get the petty quibbling about what constitutes a textbook from you.



QUOTE]

There is a lot simpler way to get the answers to this topic than text books- it's a fairly simple process called COMMON SENSE. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[Goober]

Irrelevant. If you wanted specifics about textbooks you should have specified that to begin with. You didn't. All you said was that you'd accept that life starts at conception if the CMA, AMA, etc. accepted that and if it was in textbooks.
People showed you textbooks and now we get the petty quibbling about what constitutes a textbook from you.



QUOTE]

There is a lot simpler way to get the answers to this topic than text books- it's a fairly simple process called COMMON SENSE. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

JLM -Anna G - Great posts
I see wiggling going on by someone - HHMMM - Now who would that be - Now it could also be squirming. Not sure - The relection from the see aa toilet bowl is not clear - Damm it Goober lift the lid.

Holding a position beyond a reasonable point where you have been shown time and again to be in error. Or a historical view would be Custers Last Statement - "We got em surrounded boys"

Now what is the medical term for that.

 

[AnnaG]

Now what is the medical term for that.

Senile dementia?

http://www.medicinenet.com/dementia/article.htm

 

[SirJosephPorter]

SirJosephPorter,



On another note, although I'm not the person you replied to regarding choosing textbooks for the courses, I'd like to say that I never ever heard that departments would decide on the textbooks selection. In reality, professors make the decision solely and absolutely by themselves. They actually can go as far as not using any textbooks at all and base the course exclusively on their lecture notes and work in class. And it doesn't matter at all if it's a first year course or not, or if the students are from different programs (normally they are). Mandatory textbook selection in universities is widely practiced in some European countries, perhaps elsewhere, but not in Canada as far as I know.

That may well be, but when I went to university (in prehistoric times), I remember three Chemistry classes had the same textbook. Maybe things are done differently now. The same for the math course.

SirJosephPorter,

Yes, it's a pro-life site, but as I said earlier it gives an impressive list of fundamental medical textbooks regarding the subject. It was merely convenient to refer to this list rather than spending the time I don't have on searching and retrieving the very same sources and making a very similar list. Your posting, on the other hand, only included a single quote of a university professor. If you look at the website in my previous message, you'll see that I refused to cite any quotes from scientists and medical doctors, and I did this for a reason - we want to refer to established facts based on research evidence and published in academic press, don't we?

Oh, absolutely. That is why I said before this, show me a textbook, or papers published in reputable scientific journals which prove that human life begins at conception. The website given by you doesn’t do that, it simply gives the opinion of some scientists.

But failing publications in journals like Lancet, New3 England Journal of Medicine or similar, that is just an opinion. Anyway, if we are talking of opinion, that opinion s not shared by AMA, CMA, BMA etc. These associations represent he consensus of doctors in USA, Canada etc.

That consensus does not agree with what the pro life website is saying.

 

[AnnaG]

Whatever, your position is disputed by REAL scientists. And that is a consensus and a rational person should be satisfied with that.
I challenge you to find one single geneticist (geneticists are REAL scientists) who disagrees that life does not begin within a few hours of conception.
Till then, all you have is your subjective, ignorantly biased opinion.

BTW, why should journals have to publish their particular opinions about anything? I would think they leave the opinions up to their editors and whether their editors decide to publish editorials about it.

As far as textbooks goes, if Massachusetts Inst. of Technology uses "Developmental Biology" that's quite good enough for me. If you ignore that, it's your problem and your foolishness and all you are doing is bandying words about.

 

[Goober]

That may well be, but when I went to university (in prehistoric times), I remember three Chemistry classes had the same textbook. Maybe things are done differently now. The same for the math course.



Oh, absolutely. That is why I said before this, show me a textbook, or papers published in reputable scientific journals which prove that human life begins at conception. The website given by you doesn’t do that, it simply gives the opinion of some scientists.

But failing publications in journals like Lancet, New3 England Journal of Medicine or similar, that is just an opinion. Anyway, if we are talking of opinion, that opinion s not shared by AMA, CMA, BMA etc. These associations represent he consensus of doctors in USA, Canada etc.

That consensus does not agree with what the pro life website is saying.

And Universities used to be so called bastions of free speech, thought and opinion - Witness in the last decade how many have tried to shut down Pro Life organizations on campus - Yet Pro Choice is not a problem - Anti Apartheid Week - AKA hate the Jew is not a problem.

Also answer Anna G's question - Life begins at or shortly after fertilization - when we treat a fetus as a lump of useless flesh - we are lying to ourselves - And many Pro Life and Pro Choice - a substantial majority would be and are disgusted to know that late term abortions -No medical emergency reasons what so ever - the mother wants an abortion - are done quite often in Canada - Yes I know it will be to you only a few. But how many lives and that is what they are does the number have to be before you are offended or disgusted.

Please give me a number - would it be 10 perhaps 20 - maybe 100. But give a firm number so we know where you stand on this. Stating it is rare based upon percentages is running from the fact and lying to yourself and others when you post that view point.

 

[AnnaG]

Moreover:

White Paper. When Does Human Life Begin?

From Princeton:

Life Begins at Fertilization with the Embryo's Conception

Embryology Textbooks - Embryology

Or perhaps you'd like to watch a little from Nova:

NOVA Online | Cracking the Code of Life | Watch the Program Here

More from the field of genetics:

Policies and Education

How about the College of Family Physicians of Canada?

How Human Life Begins

From a scientist with a PhD from Harvard who teaches at Princeton:

Science of Self

 

[karrie]

post all the links you want anna... in my experience the argument will merely shift from 'science can't say', to 'I mean the legal definition.'

 

[AnnaG]

It has to be pretty insane when even pro-life groups take no issue against the idea that life begins at conception and one individual who claims to be pro-choice doesn't. lmao

:tard:
If you had actually looked at the link and googled the title you might have noticed that M.I.T. is one school that uses it. Sive Lab Home Page

Developmental Biology - Biology and Medicine - The MIT Press

:tard:
Dead wrong. It was NOT alive as its own lifeform before. After the sperm penetrates the egg and cellular division starts, it develops its own unique DNA. Neither the sperm by itself nor the egg by itself contains the DNA to start a human life. READ a few books on it sometime. It'll likely keep you from making such stupid comments. Or else stay away from discussions about biology. Just some advice.
When it becomes human? You mean when does it change from being aardvark parts or tortoise parts to human parts? I have no idea and I doubt anyone would know. Or when it changes to being a physiologically complete human? That point is about 20 to 25 weeks. Most fetuses are quite viable as HUMAN BEINGS after 23 weeks. Whether it is inside or outside the womb is irrelevant except to the legal system.

It doesn't matter, Ton. He's the one that keeps proving himself to be what he is ---------> :tard: by ignoring the evidence.

lol

Pretty much. Your question initially was a request for a textbook. Ton and I both supplied one each. Now you want to know if a school uses them. Obviously if they are textbooks, then they have been or are used in schools. Or are you confused about what the word "textbook" means?

Personally, I don't think it makes any difference if Harvard, Oxford, MIT uses the texts or not to you. You'll still argue that the texts are invalid for some strawman reason or other. But that's what comes of valuing a winning discussion over being scientifically accurate and factual, I guess.

post all the links you want anna... in my experience the argument will merely shift from 'science can't say', to 'I mean the legal definition.'

I know. lol I just like the researching part of it, because unlike him, I learn stuff from the links.

 

[Sаbine]

Oh, absolutely. That is why I said before this, show me a textbook, or papers published in reputable scientific journals which prove that human life begins at conception. The website given by you doesn’t do that, it simply gives the opinion of some scientists.

But failing publications in journals like Lancet, New3 England Journal of Medicine or similar, that is just an opinion. Anyway, if we are talking of opinion, that opinion s not shared by AMA, CMA, BMA etc. These associations represent he consensus of doctors in USA, Canada etc.

That consensus does not agree with what the pro life website is saying.

What opinions? I pointed out that I, in fact, intentionally avoided making reference to opinions of researchers and med. doctors. If you take a second look at the list of textbooks I posted, you’ll see that there are actual quotes taken directly from those textbooks. Not opinions, but real parts of the text content from each textbook, accompanied with the page numbers, which means you can physically find this or that particular citation in this or that particular textbook.

And no, author’s opinion isn’t what textbooks are based on. Well-established facts, solid research evidence conducted by many other authors, peer-reviewed and accepted by the scientific community material is what’s required to get a textbook published. Authors of research papers normally can speculate and hypothesize, but this almost never applies to the textbook category.

 

[AnnaG]

What opinions? I pointed out that I, in fact, intentionally avoided making reference to opinions of researchers and med. doctors. If you take a second look at the list of textbooks I posted, you’ll see that there are actual quotes taken directly from those textbooks. Not opinions, but real parts of the text content from each textbook, accompanied with the page numbers, which means you can physically find this or that particular citation in this or that particular textbook.

And no, author’s opinion isn’t what textbooks are based on. Well-established facts, solid research evidence conducted by many other authors, peer-reviewed and accepted by the scientific community material is what’s required to get a textbook published. Authors of research papers normally can speculate and hypothesize, but this almost never applies to the textbook category.

Yeah. It seems the more i research this, the more consensus I see in scientists. If geneticists, embryologists, family physicians, scientific ethicists, etc. figure that life begins after fertilization, it's a bit dumb to keep claiming there isn't.