Human foetus feels no pain before 24 weeks

[Praxius]

Human foetus feels no pain before 24 weeks | News.com.au

A BRITISH medical association says human foetuses cannot feel pain before the age of 24 weeks, delivering a setback for anti-abortion activists campaigning to lower the country's 24-week time limit. MPs who were considering lowering the limit to 20-22 weeks had commissioned the study by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.'

Citing evidence from medical research and post-mortem reports, the group said that nerve connections in the brain were not sufficiently formed to allow pain perception until after 24 weeks, and that even after 24 weeks, the fetus was in a state of sleep-like unconsciousness or sedation.

"There was fairly good evidence that the pathways necessary to feel pain really just aren't there before 24 weeks - although they very clearly are there after," said Richard Anderson, a professor in human reproductive sciences at the University of Edinburgh on the study's authors.

Some doctors disagree with the findings, arguing that foetuses can experience distress by the age of 20 weeks.

The US state of Nebraska recently passed a bill banning abortion at and after 20 weeks of pregnancy.

But the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists has said it knows of no legitimate evidence that shows a fetus can experience pain.

It said a foetus' brain begins its final stage of development between the 20th and 40th weeks of pregnancy, and that certain hormones that develop in the final trimester also must be present for it to feel pain. It's not known exactly when those hormones appear.

In Britain, the Abortion Act of 1967 allows surgical abortions up to 24 weeks. A woman can still abort her baby after 24 weeks if doctors agree the mother's life is in danger or there is strong evidence that the foetus would be born with a severe disability.

The law, however, does not extend to religiously conservative Northern Ireland, where abortions are still banned unless a woman's life is in danger or at mental or physical risk. As a result an estimated 1400-2000 women from the British territory travel annually to England or other European Union nations to end their pregnancies.

"We have no real evidence because the unborn baby can't speak," said Bernie Smyth, director of Precious Life, an anti-abortion group active in both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. "The fact is babies have been born at 24 weeks, they have survived, and they do feel pain."

Britain's Prime Minister, David Cameron, had backed reducing the limit to between 20 and 22 weeks before he came to power in May.

The House of Commons voted in 2008 to keep the existing limit, and Mr Cameron's office issued a statement today saying no changes were planned in the policy. It said the prime minister would be led in his decision by science.

Campaigners against abortions said the report's conclusions were not definitive and did not change their view that terminating pregnancies is wrong.

"Performing abortion humanely does not justify the fact that you are terminating a human life," said Josephine Quintavalle of the London-based Comment on Reproductive Ethics.

But supporters of the current abortion laws said the findings would reassure women considering a late-term termination.

"It is vitally important to protect a woman's right to access abortion services, and British law rightly recognises this principle," said Tony Kerridge of the sexual health charity Marie Stopes International.

"The findings should give comfort and reassurance to any woman who finds herself in the extremely distressing position of having to make the decision to terminate a pregnancy at a later gestation."

The charity said late abortions were extremely rare in Britain. Last year there were fewer than 3000 abortions above 20 weeks gestation, Mr Kerridge said.

Well once again, just as I originally thought in regards to brain development, etc..... this is yet another study that backs the position I had all along.

Which means anybody who continually used the argument about fetuses feeling pain as their defense against abortions can chuck that pile of crap out the window & try and think of something new.

 

[karrie]

It says some say this, some disagree.

It seems oddly convenient to me that the nerves they are just now able to see develop so conveniently at the exact same threshold that a 1967 law drew out arbitrarily, but they're not there are week 23.

 

[AnnaG]

Oh great. Another abortion thread. Like there aren't dozens now.

Personally, I think stupidity is plenty of reason not to abort. Anything other than a medical reason, pregnancy as a result of violence, and the rare oops, are stupid reasons for abortion.

 

[karrie]

But Anna... we're not supposed to value human potential! if it can't feel pain, discard it for whatever reasons suit you. *poof* no biggie.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Praxius, did you see the Fundamentalist propaganda film ‘The Silent Scream’? In that they filmed the fetus fairly early in the pregnancy, by means of ultrasonic.

Even though the images were extremely fuzzy, the Fundamentalists could clearly see the fetus squirming, trying to avoid the scalpel, screaming etc., with the most effecting particulars.

According to antiabortion activists, that film was going to put an end to abortion worldwide. It didn’t quite work out that way.

Silent Scream

Incidentally, let me correct you in one small particular. The 1967 law legalized abortion up to 28 weeks, not 24 weeks. Some time later the government brought the limit down to 24 weeks. But when I lived in UK (up to 1986), the limit was 28 weeks, not 24 weeks.

When I was in Britain, prolifers tried to restrict abortion (one of the clauses of the bill was to lower the limit from 28 weeks to 20 weeks) but the effort was filibustered in the Commons.

 

[lone wolf]

If it means so much to you, go have an abortion.

 

[AnnaG]

I guess I'm just another religious-right kook.

Nebraska outlaws abortions after 20 weeks: Briefing: New law claims a fetus can feel pain - science-in-society - 16 April 2010 - New Scientist

It has to be pretty serious for anyone to abort after 20 weeks anyway, I'd think. Here's a fetus at 20 weeks:

Praxius, did you see the Fundamentalist propaganda film ‘The Silent Scream’? In that they filmed the fetus fairly early in the pregnancy, by means of ultrasonic.

Even though the images were extremely fuzzy, the Fundamentalists could clearly see the fetus squirming, trying to avoid the scalpel, screaming etc., with the most effecting particulars.

According to antiabortion activists, that film was going to put an end to abortion worldwide. It didn’t quite work out that way.

Silent Scream

Incidentally, let me correct you in one small particular. The 1967 law legalized abortion up to 28 weeks, not 24 weeks. Some time later the government brought the limit down to 24 weeks. But when I lived in UK (up to 1986), the limit was 28 weeks, not 24 weeks.

When I was in Britain, prolifers tried to restrict abortion (one of the clauses of the bill was to lower the limit from 28 weeks to 20 weeks) but the effort was filibustered in the Commons.

*Shrugs*

Pro-abortion propaganda.

 

[TenPenny]

Yeah, yet another thread where people will tell everyone else what to do.

Abortion is a personal decision, do what you feel is right.

End of ****ing story, already.

 

[Liberalman]

Yeah, yet another thread where people will tell everyone else what to do.

Abortion is a personal decision, do what you feel is right.

End of ****ing story, already.

No more abortions that will end the story

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Yeah, yet another thread where people will tell everyone else what to do.

Abortion is a personal decision, do what you feel is right.

End of ****ing story, already.

Abortion, like homosexuality or prostitution, will never end. The only question is (again, as with homosexuality or prostitution) whether most abortions will be performed legally or illegally.

 

[Chiliagon]

Human foetus feels no pain before 24 weeks | News.com.au

Well once again, just as I originally thought in regards to brain development, etc..... this is yet another study that backs the position I had all along.

Which means anybody who continually used the argument about fetuses feeling pain as their defense against abortions can chuck that pile of crap out the window & try and think of something new.

one question...

what's a Foetus?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

one question...

what's a Foetus?

That is a very profound question, isn't it? What is a fetus and when does a fetus become a baby?

 

[Chiliagon]

when it comes out and says "I'm a Baby!!!"

 

[SirJosephPorter]

when it comes out and says "I'm a Baby!!!"

That is as good a definition as any. The only problem is, there is no religion associated with it, so you cannot impose your opinion on others (as prolifers can, they 'know' life begins at conception, that it is a baby at conception because their God tells them so and they feel free to impose their viewpoint on everybody else).

 

[JLM]

Abortions are fine when the subject of the abortion is able to voice his/her approval.

 

[Avro]

Human foetus feels no pain before 24 weeks | News.com.au

Well once again, just as I originally thought in regards to brain development, etc..... this is yet another study that backs the position I had all along.

Which means anybody who continually used the argument about fetuses feeling pain as their defense against abortions can chuck that pile of crap out the window & try and think of something new.

I never used that as an argument.

Murder is good enough to describe what happens in the abortion process.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I never used that as an argument.

Murder is good enough to describe what happens in the abortion process.

Murder, really? The let us extrapolate it and see what you are really saying.

Doctor who performs an abortion must be given death penalty in USA and life without parole in Canada.

The woman who gets an abortion must be put to death in USA and given life without parole in Canada.

If her boy friend, husband, or simply a friend knows that she was about to get an abortion, then he (or she) must be charged with accessory before and after the fact and must be given long prison sentences.

So, are you ready to throw women in prison for abortion? If not, then you don’t really believe that abortion is murder.

 

[Avro]

Murder, really? The let us extrapolate it and see what you are really saying.

Doctor who performs an abortion must be given death penalty in USA and life without parole in Canada.

The woman who gets an abortion must be put to death in USA and given life without parole in Canada.

If her boy friend, husband, or simply a friend knows that she was about to get an abortion, then he (or she) must be charged with accessory before and after the fact and must be given long prison sentences.

So, are you ready to throw women in prison for abortion? If not, then you don’t really believe that abortion is murder.

If abortion isn't murder, what is it then?

Birth control?

It is what it is....murder.

I have a question, when is it a life to you? Can we abort a child a week before the due date? How about during labor?

Having said that and if you paid any attention I support abortion in cases of rape, incest, deformation and if the life of the Mother is in jeopardy.

I will never support it if two people couldn't control themselves and/or use some sort of protection because it would be inconvient to have a child.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

If abortion isn't murder, what is it then?

Birth control?

It is what it is....murder.

I have a question, when is it a life to you? Can we abort a child a week before the due date? How about during labor?

Having said that and if you paid any attention I support abortion in cases of rape, incest, deformation and if the life of the Mother is in jeopardy.

I will never support it if two people couldn't control themselves and/or use some sort of protection because it would be inconvient to have a child.

You still did not answer my question. Are you going to put a woman who has an abortion in prison for life without parole? And give her the noose if she is in USA? If so, only then it will be clear that you believe that abortion is murder. If not, you are fudging the issue.

Answer this question first, then we will move on to the other points raised by you, if you wish.

 

[Avro]

You still did not answer my question. Are you going to put a woman who has an abortion in prison for life without parole? And give her the noose if she is in USA? If so, only then it will be clear that you believe that abortion is murder. If not, you are fudging the issue.

Answer this question first, then we will move on to the other points raised by you, if you wish.

If abortion was illegal, the answer is yes.

Your turn.