How we treat prostitutes

[iwillescortu]

I think both supply and demand can only be solved through spirituality.

Good luck in our consumer based society.

If fewer girls enter the market, that's already a plus. And if that knocks some men out of the market as aresult, then it's an additional plus.

True enough, but the trend is shifting the other way. On the streets, what was costing on average $100 14 years ago, is now around $50, often much less. These price shifts had to be reflected indoors as well (that damn supply and demand thingy AGAIN!) and so demand has risen and therefore supply.

With the government cuts we have gotten it can only get worse before it gets better, but I won't stop you from trying to get the government to address this issue. They only seem truely interested in our plight just before an election. Things that make you go hmmmmmm.

So then why try? I'm a logical man; I try to make the world better because I believe I can. It would be illogical of me to try if I believed I couldn't.

Then again I would never dream of stopping you, but being logical myself.... good luck.

We only need one :lol:

Which one is that?

 

[iwillescortu]

iwillescortu, is it possible that you have been blinded by your own success? Living in Toronto Population..... too many and growing... I see every day I go to work hundreds who have fallen threw the social safty net. Not because of the social safty net itself but because of people like Mike Harris whom cut holes into it. Once you lose everything it is extremely hard to get back onto your feet. If you have no mailing address good luck getting a job even at mcdonalds. Also when you consider a Mcjob won't pay your bills here in Toronto your pretty screwed.

My wife and I make over 65k a year. Yeah we don't make that much. But we can not afford to even buy property in Toronto because of the expense of property here and we are forced to rent. Renting in Toronto is so high it costs like 800-1500 dollars for nothing. Which helps keep down the working poor. Now when I think of people with Mcjobs making 15-20k a year... if they are the single worker in there family, hell if there by themselves how can they survive.. Some people even with jobs are forced into a life of crime and prostitution and drugs by society itself.

Is it possible you have misread my posts? I am a sex trade worker of 14 years. I am in the process of exiting the trade. I am taking classes at a place designed solely to support sex trade workers in what ever way they can. I am now employed very P/T by this place as an outreach worker. I am trying to give a voice to those who are in the trade, those who have exited and those who have died.

My only success(so far), is surviving the industry for 14 years.

 

[iwillescortu]

Good to see you Iwillescortu.

Good to see you

Heard you was looking for me, did you miss me(my almost alter ego?) :wink:

 

[ashley_rb]

Your chice of words is interesting:

Sex trade worker instead of prostitute.

And you call it an industry. Makes it sound so nice and warm and fuzzy.

I wish people had the courage to say what it is: discusting. Women being paid for sex with men, transmiting diseases, trading sex for drugs, and an absolute embrasement to Canadians for not doing anything to stop such a discusting "industry" of high quality "trade workers". OMG you make it sound like your a carpenter, a electrian or some other type of hard working professional.

Its discusting.

 

[Machjo]

Which one is that?


Don't all religions teach the same spiritual laws of kindness, justice, forgiveness, etc.

Heck, even irreligionsists will often agree with much of them.

So it would seem to be the same spirit in whatever direction one should choose to turn.

 

[iwillescortu]

We need more money from the government to help. What about those women who are brought over here from third world countries, then having there visas taken and forced into the sex trade to pay for it. It happens in Toronto and Vancouver all the time. How will legalizing it end that?

Yes more money would help. There are numerous organizations trying to get funding to help, but the girls are on the low end of the priority list. Educating the public to their plights is one way I try to contibute, as the more people who demand something be done, the more likely PEERS, PACE and other agencies will get enough funding to impliement their projects..

I am not convienced that decriminalization would end the sex slave trade. In a perfect world yes, but we don't live there.

 

[Machjo]

Re: RE: How we treat prostitutes

Dear Ashley;

I morally oppose homosexual as well as prostitutional behaviour, yet I'm capable of expressing my ideas in an at least somewhat respectful manner. Believe it or not, despite my opposition to these in this forum, not one person has insulted me yet by suggesting that I go back to the dark ages, or that I'm a big bad "neo-con" or fundamentalist, etc. Why? Because of the delivery. They might not agree with my ideas, but at least I express them in a civilized manner.

Now I don't know about your religion, but I'm guessin gyou might be a Christian. Do yo honestly believe Jesus would ever refer to a woman engaging in prostitution as a "whore" or to a homosexual as a "faggot" or a "dyke"? My guess it, probably not! He would still stand his ground and educate people about it, but show some class in the process.

By the way, welcome to the Canadian Content.

 

[Machjo]

We need more money from the government to help. What about those women who are brought over here from third world countries, then having there visas taken and forced into the sex trade to pay for it. It happens in Toronto and Vancouver all the time. How will legalizing it end that?

Yes more money would help. There are numerous organizations trying to get funding to help, but the girls are on the low end of the priority list. Educating the public to their plights is one way I try to contibute, as the more people who demand something be done, the more likely PEERS, PACE and other agencies will get enough funding to impliement their projects..

I am not convienced that decriminalization would end the sex slave trade. In a perfect world yes, but we don't live there.

I'm curious;

Have any religious communities gotten involved in helping women get off the streets, or is it all talk no action?

 

[iwillescortu]

Which one is that?


Don't all religions teach the same spiritual laws of kindness, justice, forgiveness, etc.

Heck, even irreligionsists will often agree with much of them.

So it would seem to be the same spirit in whatever direction one should choose to turn.

Yes but do they follow the teachings or twist them to use them for their own adgendas?

I read the bible. I believe that Jesus was an awesome man (not convienced he was the son of God) and I try hard to follow my heart by treating people from all walks of life as equally and fairly as possible. I try hard not to judge. I love to help people, its my calling, and I would probably join a spiritual froup, if I could find one where the people who attend services act as if they had attended and understood.

As a child of an atheist I was encouraged to explore whatever path I choose. I tried the churches of all my friends and the only one I felt welcomed at was the Salvation Army. I refuse to join any group which places the status of one sex over the status of another. I am not the weaker sex, nor am I the stronger, I just am.

Now before we get to far off-topic, I don't know how strict they are here and I would like to stay long enough to talk to Scared as that is why I came. So if you know this is going to cause problems.... My forum is very loose, but I know some are not. :?

 

[iwillescortu]

Re: RE: How we treat prostitutes

Dear Ashley;

I morally oppose homosexual as well as prostitutional behaviour, yet I'm capable of expressing my ideas in an at least somewhat respectful manner. Believe it or not, despite my opposition to these in this forum, not one person has insulted me yet by suggesting that I go back to the dark ages, or that I'm a big bad "neo-con" or fundamentalist, etc. Why? Because of the delivery. They might not agree with my ideas, but at least I express them in a civilized manner.

Now I don't know about your religion, but I'm guessin gyou might be a Christian. Do yo honestly believe Jesus would ever refer to a woman engaging in prostitution as a "*censored*" or to a homosexual as a "faggot" or a "dyke"? My guess it, probably not! He would still stand his ground and educate people about it, but show some class in the process.

By the way, welcome to the Canadian Content.

Thank you. :lol:

 

[Machjo]

Yes but do they follow the teachings or twist them to use them for their own adgendas?
Good question.

I read the bible. I believe that Jesus was an awesome man (not convienced he was the son of God) and I try hard to follow my heart by treating people from all walks of life as equally and fairly as possible. I try hard not to judge. I love to help people, its my calling, and I would probably join a spiritual froup, if I could find one where the people who attend services act as if they had attended and understood.

I'm not a Christan myself, but do believe in the Bible too. Again, it's teh spirit that matters, and it's found in amny books, including the bible.

As a child of an atheist I was encouraged to explore whatever path I choose. I tried the churches of all my friends and the only one I felt welcomed at was the Salvation Army. I refuse to join any group which places the status of one sex over the status of another. I am not the weaker sex, nor am I the stronger, I just am.

Your "atheist" parent understood something then. I used to be irreligious myself.

Now before we get to far off-topic, I don't know how strict they are here and I would like to stay long enough to talk to Scared as that is why I came. So if you know this is going to cause problems.... My forum is very loose, but I know some are not. :?

From what I can tell, as long as you show tact and wisdom in your posts, no problem :wink:

From what I can see, you're a good friend to have.

Oh, I should mention that, by the way. Being opposed to any act doesn't prevent me from having friends. I've had homosexual friends (maybe still do and just don't know it) and might unwittingly have friends who have been prostitutes (who knows). but these are personal questions I never ask a friend face to face. Yet, if a friend ever came to me and said he/she engaged in prostitution, that wouldn't affect the friendship one bit for me, nor would I look down upon that person in the least. Friends exist to help and be helped.

 

[Machjo]

Re: RE: How we treat prostitutes

Thank you. :lol:

And thank you for being here.

Though I'm still waiting for a response from Ashley; I might might have scared her away. I hope I wasn't too hard on her.

 

[iwillescortu]

I'm curious;

Have any religious communities gotten involved in helping women get off the streets, or is it all talk no action?

I can't say much on that topic. I would hate to say they don't if they do, but I have seen limited involvement. There is a wonderful church lady here in Victoria, who drives around with her husband on Thrusday evenings delivering small gift bags to the girls. They always contain some candy :lol: and usually a sample sized perfume or soap type item and a card with her number if you ever need help. I have never called (I should just to talk as she is very nice) but some have and apperently the church does help with some items, especially if the girl has children.

I don't think they have the resources to actually get a girl off, but they at least try to show that they care. In a world where we often feel know one does, they are a bright spot and are greatly appeciated. I know they do provide food baskets at Christmas, as one year she insisted (against my every protest) that I get one, and it was two full laundry baskets. Good thing, that was the winter of '96 and we had enough food to last through the snow storm.

Years ago a lone female used to walk the streets and give out hot chocolate. She belonged to some church but never pushed it. I know she went off to other things, but wish I knew where as she was another bright spot out there. I have no idea what kind of help, if any she provided, beyond giving an ear or possibly spiritual councelling.

She was followed by an ever changing group from another church, who were hilariously funny, but gave out such bad hot chocolate that we threw it in the garbage as soon as they were out of sight. :lol:

They lasted less than a year, who knows why. There place was taken by PEERS, who started very small and has grown over the years. They have no religious motivations, but they have the capabilities to get girls off the street. Only thing is they don't push it. We (I can say that now :lol: ) strive to help girls where ever they are in their lives. Getting out, staying in, doesn't matter, if we can help, we do, or try our utmost to find some one who can.

 

[iwillescortu]

Re: RE: How we treat prostitutes

Thank you. :lol:

And thank you for being here.

Though I'm still waiting for a response from Ashley; I might might have scared her away. I hope I wasn't too hard on her.

I have gotten enough of those type of responses to know if I reply it will most likely escalate, so I try to leave them alone.

That's like the young people who drive around throwing things at the working girls, you learn to ignore them until you get hit.

I have no problem discusing my occupation to anyone who treats me with respect as I try hard to do so myself. I have very much enjoyed my conversations with you this evening (though I won't be as pleased in the morning :lol: ).

My mother the atheist, was a Sunday School teacher, until she became a worker at the Catholic Hospital where I grew up. I remember the "sisters" did judge and judge harshly, but I didn't know my mother (whose job it was to clean the priest's room) found nun's underwear in his laundry basket. She went on to become the president of the union and enjoyed many years tormenting her bosses. :lol:

 

[iwillescortu]

Twila said:

In Victoria the prostitutes worked on Government Street. They were known there. The cops knew them. They knew the cops. Tabs were kept. Tacit agreement was they were allowed on the street after 9:00pm, before 9:00 they were removed. Now? They've been pushed away from there and work all different corners, at all different locations. Who knows who? Who's keeping tabs on who?

If they were registered and legal they'd have an area. Saanich (in Victoria) is the only location where it is legal to run a call service. You can't run one in Victoria, only Saanich.

The pimped girls worked on Government street, but what about Broughton, Courtney, Fort, Broad and Gordan, where the independences hung out, you know those girls without pimps.

Then there was Johnson, Broad, Yates and Government where the messed up girls plyed their trade. Girl if you were ever downtown in the day time, I really don't know how you didn't noticed this group of girls. They could be seen flailing anytime of the day or night.

The independents came out as early as 7:00, and the cops didn't complain until the Magnolia Hotel was being built. I know that as I sat on the trash can outside of Harbor Cones (from 7pm til midnight) for many years.

The vice Squad did keep loose track of the girls, but extremely loose. I was on Fort street almost two years before the took down my particulars. Another year went by before they bothered to take my picture. Once vice disbanded they didn't even pretend to keep track any more.

Now? You can find girls on Government, from Fizgaurd to Hillside and up most of the side streets to Douglas. Then down Rock Bay and those side streets back to Government. A few spring up on Esquimalt Road and sometime down the Gorge, but those are usually dodging the cops, trying to get a ride downtown or new in town. PEERS keeps better track of the girls than the cops ever pretended to. We have the RV down on track seven nights a week from 9:00 til 1:00, and daytime outreach checks when they have time. As we sit and talk to the girls we get to really know each individual and we can often tell if a girl that does not show up for days is missing or taking a break. Most times they inform us so we don't worry, they seldom told cops their personal scheduals. :lol:

Esquimalt is the only district of Greater Victoria that refuses to liscence escort agnecies. The only reason few register in Victoria is the price. When I had my Victoria Escort liscence (I had one every year for 8 years until last Jan) it cost $400 a year (much more than most "legitamate businesses" pay) while in Sannich it's around $100. Those prives cover one girl only. Two girls starts at around the $1500 range(in Victoria) and goes up with each girl registered. So most agencies don't want to pay those prices. This was to prevent agencies from running downtown, but it also forced us independents to work alone and that is not safe either. :twisted: I believe an agency in Saanich is chaged more than a single, but I never looked into that, I do know it's not what Victoria charges.

Another unique Victorian idea is the 8 page form that needs to be filled out and two passport sized pictures of each female that is going to be working that has to be attached to that form. Then two weeks later the City cops call you in for your "interview" which is a cheap excuse to humiliate, degrade and otherwise scare you. Then they take a cheap polaroid and send you home, reminding you not to take calls after 2:00, but never telling you how early you can start (how bout 3:00 am for them early "risers"? :lol: ).

Since I never applied in the other areas I do not know for certain if they have the same procedures but i have not heard any one complain. The agencies that have set up in Victoria find some girls won't hire on because they don't want the cops to have their pic on file, can't blame em.

Sannich is much cheaper and so is Oak Bay. I never had a reason to check out the Colwood Langford or View Royal polices, but I know you can get around the Esquimalt rule by using cell phones in your ad. Penthouse did for years. They set up in those beautiful new townhouses in the Songees and would probably still be there if they hadn't used pics on their web site which show the girls in the suite, with views of the inner harbour from an angle which others in the building recognized. Of course that meant someone in the building was checking out the web sight, but hey he didn't want them in his neighborhood. :roll:

 

[Curiosity]

IWill - good morning!

Enjoyed your exchange with Machjo - this is a great learning topic for people who have stereotypical ideas of how things work.

Some day if and when you have time - how about writing on the other topics too - so we can know that you have some great home remodeling skills and other things you keep busy with.

I would not want to think of you only as a professional in the sex trade - but as a woman making it in the world on her own.....

I'm still shaking my head over your tiling your kitchen!!! :lol:

 

[iwillescortu]

IWill - good morning!

Enjoyed your exchange with Machjo - this is a great learning topic for people who have stereotypical ideas of how things work.

Some day if and when you have time - how about writing on the other topics too - so we can know that you have some great home remodeling skills and other things you keep busy with.

I would not want to think of you only as a professional in the sex trade - but as a woman making it in the world on her own.....

I'm still shaking my head over your tiling your kitchen!!! :lol:

Ohh but this is one of my favorite topics. I just want to educated people so much and how many others do? Most girls who exit just want to go on with their lives and out of shame (that society places on them) hide their past. I don't, must be my age. 8O

My best friend, her daughter and I have been in this new place for a year, the landlord loves us. So far we have done work in two bedrroms, the den and the bathroom. I put new tiles on the kitchen floor and baseboards, the landlord paid half of the material for that job, but we never asked for money for the other work. This afternoon we purchased the three new light fixtures for the kitchen, with plans for the paint in two weeks. So I guess I won't be on much again as I am going to have to start the putty and sanding soon. Wow around my schedule!?!

I have purchased all the materials to experiment with faux (?) paint in my bedroom, just waiting for someone who can fix the ceiling. I cannot work over my head (something cuts off the circulation and makes me dizzy) and besides it has to be textured to match. I have been patiently waiting, but its a small job in a city that is booming and I am tired of waiting. I have a new light fixture and plans for some kind of frilly girlie type curtain thingy around the bed. I'm not girlie in anyway, but I want it, go figure.

I cut my hair off. I hate long hair (that ungilie thing of mine)on me but I grew it long for the industry and cutting it off is extremely symbolic for me. For all intents and purposes I have hung up my heels. Was begining to think they were glued on. I hate high heels too. 8O :lol:

Two days off time for bed, I might just get a chance to skim a few other topics, of course I'm still wading through this one. :wink:

 

[Curiosity]

Way to Go I Will!!!

As I slink off in humility - my greatest challenge is hanging pictures on a level!

 

[Kreskin]

Re: RE: How we treat prostitutes

Wow I got some catching up to do, but I'm here.

Kreskin, no you don't have to be psychic, its all in the wording. Myself I sell time, doesn't matter what I do with the time, its still time. That alone has kept me free of charges for over 12 years.

More when I get the time to read through this thread.

Your selling time, not sex, in a public place. You are selling sex in a private place. I should know, I'm psychic. :wink:

 

[iwillescortu]

Shiva said

In Canada, there is no economic reason forcing a woman into prostitution. Hello, welfare?! A woman can go on welfare, get herself a free education, and become a productive and respected member of society

Yes right at this moment in time a single women can go on welfare and collect $510 per month, with the average cost of a bacholor suite over $400. Good deal, at least she should stay thin enough to catch the man of her dreams. :roll:

Now if she had a child she would collect just over $800, but then a larger suite would be required. Hopefully the kid would get enough to eat, but somehow I doubt it. Then there is the food banks, a great place to get food with little nutritional value, but hey the kids stomach won't growl all the time. :roll:

Free education?? Are you refering to those six months courses they put together? Those courses teach you how to fill out applications, type up resumes,and look for work with a few "frills" like squirell so you will be all ready to make minimum wage and work your butt off. A select few get placed in courses where they actually learn a few skills, but they don't care if you personality or aptitudes go along with that line off work, they just tell you to take it. Refuse and your cut off.

I thought about going to college before I started working the streets, but a couple single mothers I knew had taken out student loans, gone to school and couldn't find a position. They went back to low wages, but had an added loan to pay off. Yup, really helped them.

It's simple: humans are not to be bought and sold. Humans are not playthings for people to amuse themselves with. Society should not allow its body of law to promote the values that turn people into things and dehumanize the disadvantaged. Period.

Hmmm let's see what did welfare do for me? oh yeah I remember. Long story, but I asked for their help and at different times and I was humiliated, laughed at, yelled at, and lied to. I was chastied, degraded and otherwise put in my place. They are a horrible machine wholly without compassion or understanding. Even when I was only receiving $147 per month (I couldn't find substidized daycare) they almost made me beg and often made me cry, and I was still below the poverty line. They took a bigger piece of my spirit than the street ever could, in fact I got a lot of my spirit back from the independence I found on the street.