How we treat prostitutes

iwillescortu

New Member
Mar 1, 2006
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victoria bc
Shiva said

I don't deny that a large amount of money can be made in the profession, but I do doubt that the majority of the woman involved in it are living a wealthy life style. Most women who are hooking on the corner are on drugs and they don't keep most of that money. In fact, they're usually no better off after spending a lifetime on the streets.

Only a small percentage are on the street and yes in some cities most are drug addicted and not getting anywhere. However many of the other women can and do live decent to well off lifestyles.

And the idea that women enjoy this work...well, I'm sure there's some woman out there who does, but by and large, the idea that women everywhere are enjoying it is absurd. This is not a sexual act meant to please the man and woman. This is an act of exploitation where a man uses the woman to satisfy himself. The man doesn't give a damn whether the woman has a pleasureable experience or not. To act as though it's fun when it's going to be little more than a chore is just living up a stereotype and myth that pimps use to convince women to join the business.

What are you basing this on, your experience, or the all knowing media :roll: ? I rather like the men who don't want to satisfy me as I get tired of acting, but sadly I had to pretend more often than not, that's a bigger chore. I lost many a good "date" when first they said "I love you". Yes, it happens and too damn frequently. Funny thing is the man who exploited me the most was the husband I left two years before I began working.
 

iwillescortu

New Member
Mar 1, 2006
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victoria bc
Jaun said

I never thought much about prostitutes until the news about that bloody pig farm started hitting the headlines. People have said that if the police had acted sooner, some of the girls might have been saved. I don't agree. Not all, but most of these women who's DNA turned up on the pig farm, were not the best at staying in touch with family. When they went "missing", it wasn't reported for weeks, some times, months, or years.

Depends who you believe Jaun. Go to the yahoo group vancouvermissing and you can discover many truths behind the myths. When the Victoria police started really cracking down on us (I believe it was 97 or 98) there was all ready a poster at PEERS listing over twenty of the girls missing from the Vancouver streets. Many of the girls were reported soon after they were missing, but the cops often refused to take the reports, stating that the girls lived to transient a lifestyle and were therefor unreliable. After it was finally realized then they took all the reports they had refused and point to the "new" dates on those reports, to prove they didn't know. There were rumours on the street here and most of us were to scared to dream of going over there.

I got in many heated arguements with cops over my rights to stand on the corner. One night five police were yelling at my friend and I. They were really power tripping. Then one of them swaggered up to me, looked me up and down like I was dirt and told me to go to Vancouver. I replied that he had to be kidding, girls were going missing over there. To which he sneered, "percisely." Jaun if they didn't know, why would he say that? And if they did know here, they they did know there.

Sadly most of those girls were in touch with members of their family, but the police said they couldn't believe that. I believe they thought he was doing a good job.
 

iwillescortu

New Member
Mar 1, 2006
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victoria bc
Shiva said

I'd rather do that, and also sign up for some of the free gov't services to get job skills, than sell my body. And it's a completely valid alternative that will help you get skills outside of selling your body, whereas working as a prostitute doesn't get you any other 'skills' that will get you back out there in the mainstream of the workforce.

We have been working on our resumes and there is this great term called transferable skills. Each of us were to make a list of all the skills we learned that we could use in other jobs. This is part of mine.

Speaking effectively
Listening attentively
Providing appropiate feedback
Preceiving nonverbal messages
Providing support for others
Selling ideas
Instill self-confidence and self-esteem in others
Display understanding of, and respect for, people from diverse backgrounds
Learn the value of hard work and persistence
Cooperating
Counseling
Motivating
Positive attitude
Team player
Negotiations

I learned to set boundaries and stick to them for the first time in my life. Counseling, listening, compassion and understanding are such a large part of the job, and it was one of the things I loved the most. Actually the sex part of it was smaller then all the rest, oftentimes there was none. Twenty minutes of talking to people from all walks of life, from all over the world, five or ten minutes of work, its really not what most perceive it to be.
 

iwillescortu

New Member
Mar 1, 2006
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6
victoria bc
If you make prostitution legal, then it's legal work just like anything else, and even people who don't want to do it would not be able to receive things like EI if they receive offers for it because it would be a job just like anything else (this problem is happening in Germany). Legalising prostitution would force people who don't want to do it into it and entrap them as well. And would the problems preventing prostitutes from getting an education, etc., be addressed at all, helping them to get out of this type of work? Well, no. The government would have less incentive to help them because they would then be able to meet their basic needs financially.

I love this one, it seems that some guy said it to some Media idiot, who took it as real and ran with it. He failed to check his facts, and turned out to be a false.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Hello again, Iwill,

So I'd like your advice on something, based on your experiences.

Assuming the goal was in fact to get all the girls off the streets, what would be a good solution in your opinion; one which is sufficiently idealistic enough to get if not all, then the vast majority off the street, yet realistic enough that many might go for it. the solution need not be political, of course (ie.e, this law or that law), but even outside the law (different things members of the community could do?

For example, changing attitudes about prostitutes, social assistance, asking for and giving help, etc?

Providing accommodation if one has an extra empty room at home?

It doean't matter how silly the idea might be; please brainstorm and put it all on screen. It would be interesting to see what we come up with.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
I Will

I want you to look at the "Views" on this topic!!! 4323 at this moment I am writing.

Think of the people you have reached. You cannot beat forums where you have a voice and time to put things in perspective - and you do it so well, with clarity and respect - even for those
who disagree with the topic entirely and negate the very existence of those you write about.

You have spent a great deal of time writing all your responses and you should be very proud of your outreach here too - giving people knowledge and answering questions not available before to them.

Well done! WC
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
I don't think one can fourth a motion, but I would vote in favour of the motion any day.

This thread has blossomed into something invaluable.
 

iwillescortu

New Member
Mar 1, 2006
38
0
6
victoria bc
Re: RE: How we treat prostitutes

Machjo said:
Hello again, Iwill,

So I'd like your advice on something, based on your experiences.

Assuming the goal was in fact to get all the girls off the streets, what would be a good solution in your opinion; one which is sufficiently idealistic enough to get if not all, then the vast majority off the street, yet realistic enough that many might go for it. the solution need not be political, of course (ie.e, this law or that law), but even outside the law (different things members of the community could do?

For example, changing attitudes about prostitutes, social assistance, asking for and giving help, etc?

Providing accommodation if one has an extra empty room at home?

It doean't matter how silly the idea might be; please brainstorm and put it all on screen. It would be interesting to see what we come up with.

Sadly solutions are not easy.

If prostitution was decriminalized, it would help the girls working indoors and those taking up the occupation tremendously. Life would improve for those outside, but most of them would still be there. This is because most of the girls on the streets now are the drug addicted. I can only speak for Victoria, as it has been years since I have worked elsewhere. As drug addicted people are not reliable and often not presentable (at least most of those on the streets), no one would hire the majority of them.

If you want the girls off the street, it would take proper drug treatment facillities. As it stands now, we have many girls who ask for help, but it is not available NOW. Often there are strings attached, like making a required number of doctors appointments. Some require a clean pee test, just how do they get from here to there with no help? Drug addicted people cannot jump through hoops, as it takes most of their waking hours to sustain their habits and keep from hurting. Coming down is like having the worse flu of your life and at that point in time, nothing matters except getting better.

Several years ago, I had a young male staying at my apartment, who I believe really wanted help. He laid on my camp bed in so much pain. Once a day I dialed the number of the only detox in town that was available to him. Once a day I had to see the look of complete defeat in his eyes as he was told the same things, no room, call back tomorrow. What kind of answer is that? After four or five days, he gave up, the pain was intollerable and he said he felt like no one cared and he may as well go back. I still see him sometimes, down there, and he talks of getting clean, but everytime he has called, he has gotten the same anawer. I have seen that same look of defeat when working with the girls downtown. You have no idea just how many would leave if they felt they had alternatives. Yes they fight hard for their right to be there, but they think that's the only place they can be.

For some reason the quality of available drugs goes down and quite suddenly back up. Last month the cocaine supply in town became stronger, there were many OD's and a couple deaths. Two weeks ago it was the heroin, we lost two last weekend and another two during the week. Since we often don't get the names right away, I asked several girls to get the young man to call me. He phone yesterday, what a relief, until the next time. I have been to so many funerals in the last few years, and there were many more I missed as I didn't know their real names.

The treatment centers have to keep them a reasonable amount of time. It often took them many years to get where they are, 30 days is not going to "fix" them. Even 90 days would only leave a small percentage ready to face the world on their own. They would require some help, counseling at least, for their first baby steps back into mainstream.

The program I am in lasts six months, with counseling available afterwards for as long as is needed. Ideally any of the girls taking it should have been through a treatment facility first. The girls who have show they most potential. The program includes art theraphy, counseling, AA, NA or CA steps, understanding mental dissorders, spiritually classes, resumes, job training and volunteering. Then you can take a bridging class to help with employment. There are failures, but enough successes to make it viable. The best part of this program is if you slip, you can come back where you were, not start over.

I fall outside the "normal" parameters in that I was much older than the average starting age (believed to be 14) and I never succumbed to drugs. Most girls start inside and as the drugs take over, they end up outside. One would have to figure out why they start drugs.

I know some are already using and the only way to get enough money to sustain their habit is the sex trade, so one would need to figure out why so many young girls fall into drugs to help them. Many start drugs to forget what they are doing, but is that because society tells them it is wrong or they feel that way? I do not know and the ones I asked couldn't answer either. I was able to talk to some political big-wig (I'm so bad with names 8O ) just before the last election. I asked him why when they go to Nevada and Amsterdam they only talk to the city officials, police and those who live in the city. I would love to talk to the girls. Does legalization improve their status in society? Does it lower the use of drugs? Without those answer I cannot fully answer your questions. He did state that on their next visit they are planning on talking to the girls, I hope so, as it is about them too.

I do know that understanding and acceptance goes a long way. Girls on the streets are often a target. I myself have been yelled at and had several items thrown at me, including pennies, an open can of beer, tomatoes, and eggs. I was only hit once, but going home with egg dripping from your head is not going to make anyones self esteem go up. The worse of that is there is no recourse. Even if you get the liscence plate of the vehicle from which the item was thrown, the police don't bother taking a report. Most of the people who target working girls are young 19-25, but I wonder where they get their idea that its fun and why everyone else looks the other way.

The idea of letting a girl from the street stay at your place is not a good one, unless she had no access to your living quarters, enough said there.

So after all that, decriminalization, enough treatment facilaties, follow up programs, and a willness for society to care.
 

iwillescortu

New Member
Mar 1, 2006
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victoria bc
Wow that many? I hope a few have listened with an open mind.

You two, oops four, are sweet.

It's been so long since I talked to WC and Zoofer, I've missed you two. You two were among the first I ever talked to on line. :lol:
 

ashley_rb

New Member
Mar 2, 2006
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6
Re: RE: How we treat prostitutes

Machjo said:
Assuming the goal was in fact to get all the girls off the streets, what would be a good solution in your opinion; one which is sufficiently idealistic enough to get if not all, then the vast majority off the street, yet realistic enough that many might go for it. the solution need not be political, of course (ie.e, this law or that law), but even outside the law (different things members of the community could do?

The answer is this: there is no solution. None. Prostitution will never go away. There will always be sick, horny men all to willing to pay for sex. And far to much money for a prostitute not to turn it down.

For the prostute: Add in some additive drugs for the prostuties to do the johns and the quick cash to make from a john to pay for it and they are well on their way to being addicted to drugs always looking for the next high.

For the john: Throw in some online porn to get themselves going, even some kiddie porn for the real sicko, a dirty chat room, a boy or 2 with a cam, some "hot pay to peer teen site" and some dirty chat over at Yahoo, and out goes the john for some instant sicko all horned up relief.

And lets be brutily honest, most of us have watched the show COPS when they do the prostitute stings - some men are so ugly, paying for sex is the only sex their ever going to get, we've seen them on COPS. Seriously, their nasty, UGLY.

Porn, drugs, sickos, the uglies: they all feed one into the other.

Prostitution is one sicko - freak filled pack of people, that simply will never end. Freaks are made daily, men will always be horny, drug addicts will always need to get high, and ugly guys (unfortunately) with always be around.
 

iwillescortu

New Member
Mar 1, 2006
38
0
6
victoria bc
ashley

I am astonished to hear you feel that ugly men should remain celibate. How do you feel about the elderly, socially inept and physically disable?
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Re: RE: How we treat prostitutes

iwillescortu said:
Machjo said:
Hello again, Iwill,

So I'd like your advice on something, based on your experiences.

Assuming the goal was in fact to get all the girls off the streets, what would be a good solution in your opinion; one which is sufficiently idealistic enough to get if not all, then the vast majority off the street, yet realistic enough that many might go for it. the solution need not be political, of course (ie.e, this law or that law), but even outside the law (different things members of the community could do?

For example, changing attitudes about prostitutes, social assistance, asking for and giving help, etc?

Providing accommodation if one has an extra empty room at home?

It doean't matter how silly the idea might be; please brainstorm and put it all on screen. It would be interesting to see what we come up with.

Sadly solutions are not easy.

If prostitution was decriminalized, it would help the girls working indoors and those taking up the occupation tremendously. Life would improve for those outside, but most of them would still be there. This is because most of the girls on the streets now are the drug addicted. I can only speak for Victoria, as it has been years since I have worked elsewhere. As drug addicted people are not reliable and often not presentable (at least most of those on the streets), no one would hire the majority of them.

If you want the girls off the street, it would take proper drug treatment facillities. As it stands now, we have many girls who ask for help, but it is not available NOW. Often there are strings attached, like making a required number of doctors appointments. Some require a clean pee test, just how do they get from here to there with no help? Drug addicted people cannot jump through hoops, as it takes most of their waking hours to sustain their habits and keep from hurting. Coming down is like having the worse flu of your life and at that point in time, nothing matters except getting better.

Several years ago, I had a young male staying at my apartment, who I believe really wanted help. He laid on my camp bed in so much pain. Once a day I dialed the number of the only detox in town that was available to him. Once a day I had to see the look of complete defeat in his eyes as he was told the same things, no room, call back tomorrow. What kind of answer is that? After four or five days, he gave up, the pain was intollerable and he said he felt like no one cared and he may as well go back. I still see him sometimes, down there, and he talks of getting clean, but everytime he has called, he has gotten the same anawer. I have seen that same look of defeat when working with the girls downtown. You have no idea just how many would leave if they felt they had alternatives. Yes they fight hard for their right to be there, but they think that's the only place they can be.

For some reason the quality of available drugs goes down and quite suddenly back up. Last month the cocaine supply in town became stronger, there were many OD's and a couple deaths. Two weeks ago it was the heroin, we lost two last weekend and another two during the week. Since we often don't get the names right away, I asked several girls to get the young man to call me. He phone yesterday, what a relief, until the next time. I have been to so many funerals in the last few years, and there were many more I missed as I didn't know their real names.

The treatment centers have to keep them a reasonable amount of time. It often took them many years to get where they are, 30 days is not going to "fix" them. Even 90 days would only leave a small percentage ready to face the world on their own. They would require some help, counseling at least, for their first baby steps back into mainstream.

The program I am in lasts six months, with counseling available afterwards for as long as is needed. Ideally any of the girls taking it should have been through a treatment facility first. The girls who have show they most potential. The program includes art theraphy, counseling, AA, NA or CA steps, understanding mental dissorders, spiritually classes, resumes, job training and volunteering. Then you can take a bridging class to help with employment. There are failures, but enough successes to make it viable. The best part of this program is if you slip, you can come back where you were, not start over.

I fall outside the "normal" parameters in that I was much older than the average starting age (believed to be 14) and I never succumbed to drugs. Most girls start inside and as the drugs take over, they end up outside. One would have to figure out why they start drugs.

I know some are already using and the only way to get enough money to sustain their habit is the sex trade, so one would need to figure out why so many young girls fall into drugs to help them. Many start drugs to forget what they are doing, but is that because society tells them it is wrong or they feel that way? I do not know and the ones I asked couldn't answer either. I was able to talk to some political big-wig (I'm so bad with names 8O ) just before the last election. I asked him why when they go to Nevada and Amsterdam they only talk to the city officials, police and those who live in the city. I would love to talk to the girls. Does legalization improve their status in society? Does it lower the use of drugs? Without those answer I cannot fully answer your questions. He did state that on their next visit they are planning on talking to the girls, I hope so, as it is about them too.

I do know that understanding and acceptance goes a long way. Girls on the streets are often a target. I myself have been yelled at and had several items thrown at me, including pennies, an open can of beer, tomatoes, and eggs. I was only hit once, but going home with egg dripping from your head is not going to make anyones self esteem go up. The worse of that is there is no recourse. Even if you get the liscence plate of the vehicle from which the item was thrown, the police don't bother taking a report. Most of the people who target working girls are young 19-25, but I wonder where they get their idea that its fun and why everyone else looks the other way.

The idea of letting a girl from the street stay at your place is not a good one, unless she had no access to your living quarters, enough said there.

So after all that, decriminalization, enough treatment facilaties, follow up programs, and a willness for society to care.

Thanks; quite informative. Have you ever considered running next election? Nah, don't do that! Politics will corrupt you within a week! But definitely, if drug addicts are being turned down from detox centres, then we have no one to blame but ourselves for all of this prostitution.

And definitely attitudes need to change. If we look down on people who need help, then of course they fear going to the government and be a "burden", supposing that by prostituting themselves, at least they're not "burdening" the tax payer (materialism at its best). Those engaging in prostitution need to know that they are fully welcome into society and that society genuinely wants to help get them off the streets (egg throwers and people insulting those who engage in prostitution, even on line, certainly don't help in making them welcome). As long as they are looked down upon, I'd immagine many would be too embarassed to ask for the help they need. But then it's our duty to stop looking down upon them and perhaps learn from them, find out from them how they got there, find out what they need to get off, and then provide it without prune-faced "holier than thou" attitudes.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Re: RE: How we treat prostitutes

iwillescortu said:
ashley

I am astonished to hear you feel that ugly men should remain celibate. How do you feel about the elderly, socially inept and physically disable?

Sorry, I need to defend Ashley on this one, inasmuch as every one of her hate-filled posts always sends a chill down my spine. I do believe that a man (I'm one myself) can restrain himself should he wish to do so. If he can't, then that's just a lack of self-discipline on his part.
 

zoofer

Council Member
Dec 31, 2005
1,274
2
38
And lets be brutily honest, most of us have watched the show COPS when they do the prostitute stings - some men are so ugly, paying for sex is the only sex their ever going to get, we've seen them on COPS. Seriously, their nasty, UGLY.

Porn, drugs, sickos, the uglies: they all feed one into the other.

Prostitution is one sicko - freak filled pack of people, that simply will never end. Freaks are made daily, men will always be horny, drug addicts will always need to get high, and ugly guys (unfortunately) with always be around.
Oi Ashley.
Nature made men horny and some ugly to boot.
Has a handsome gentleman accompanied you to the Opera, paid for a expensive meal and a glass or two of fine South African wine, and then danced the night away? Did you reward the gentleman with carnal knowledge? Payment for his company so to speak?
Ugly toads pay cash, handsome rich gentlemen wine and dine.
 

ashley_rb

New Member
Mar 2, 2006
35
0
6
Re: RE: How we treat prostitutes

Machjo said:
And definitely attitudes need to change. If we look down on people who need help, then of course they fear going to the government and be a "burden", supposing that by prostituting themselves, at least they're not "burdening" the tax payer (materialism at its best). Those engaging in prostitution need to know that they are fully welcome into society and that society genuinely wants to help get them off the streets (egg throwers and people insulting those who engage in prostitution, even on line, certainly don't help in making them welcome). As long as they are looked down upon, I'd immagine many would be too embarassed to ask for the help they need. But then it's our duty to stop looking down upon them and perhaps learn from them, find out from them how they got there, find out what they need to get off, and then provide it without prune-faced "holier than thou" attitudes.

Who's attitude needs to change?

Its the johns, pimps and prostuties online and on the street that need an attitude adjustment. How do we know? When they get caught and arrested, they know what they are doing is wrong, everytime!
 

zoofer

Council Member
Dec 31, 2005
1,274
2
38
.. and cheap buggers go for the twofers.

Do you like cheesburgers Ash? Hope you don't mind me calling you Ash. It seems so much friendlier.

Can call me Zee for short too. Not Zed. :p
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Re: RE: How we treat prostitutes

ashley_rb said:
Machjo said:
And definitely attitudes need to change. If we look down on people who need help, then of course they fear going to the government and be a "burden", supposing that by prostituting themselves, at least they're not "burdening" the tax payer (materialism at its best). Those engaging in prostitution need to know that they are fully welcome into society and that society genuinely wants to help get them off the streets (egg throwers and people insulting those who engage in prostitution, even on line, certainly don't help in making them welcome). As long as they are looked down upon, I'd immagine many would be too embarassed to ask for the help they need. But then it's our duty to stop looking down upon them and perhaps learn from them, find out from them how they got there, find out what they need to get off, and then provide it without prune-faced "holier than thou" attitudes.

Who's attitude needs to change?

Its the johns, pimps and prostuties online and on the street that need an attitude adjustment. How do we know? When they get caught and arrested, they know what they are doing is wrong, everytime!

Here's the issue, Ashley. If a prostitute is addicted to hard drugs, how is she supposed to get off the streets without our help?

So let me get this straight, Ashley; if you could do something to help a person off the streets, you'd just take on the attitue "Oh well, not my problem". Is that it?

Another question; do you give any of your time to the community, or are you all talk, no action?