"He's Not With God, He's F***ing Dead!"

[Bcool]

Bill Maher interviews Richard Tillman brother of Pat Tillman, an American football star who joined up & was killed by suspicious "friendly fire".

hthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t_V_7U8qdc&feature=player_embeddedtp://

 

[petros]

He'll never make that mistake again.

 

[ironsides]

Dang, thought you were talking about Bill Maher.
Comedian who thinks he knows it all.

 

[relic]

What mistake?
People like Bill Mahr scare sheep like ironsides,because they can see throught the bs.

 

[JLM]

Bill Maher interviews Richard Tillman brother of Pat Tillman, an American football star who joined up & was killed by suspicious "friendly fire".

hthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t_V_7U8qdc&feature=player_embeddedtp://

Does one preclude the other?

 

[#juan]

Richard Tillman sounds like a complete jerk.

 

[karrie]

Richard Tillman sounds like a complete jerk.

I agree and disagree all at once. I can remember how offended and downright angry I was when my uncle's funeral was highjacked as a chance to preach how not being 'born again' meant we were all going to burn in hell. I found it highly offensive. If I were a zealous person, I might have stood up and used it as a chance to take a philosophical shot at the pastor who pissed me off too.

For Tillman, who obviously feels he is 'right', he couldn't pass that up, any moreso than the people who felt they were 'right' enough to speak in religious terms about a man they didn't know, in a setting that wasn't religious.

 

[Bcool]

I agree and disagree all at once. I can remember how offended and downright angry I was when my uncle's funeral was highjacked as a chance to preach how not being 'born again' meant we were all going to burn in hell. I found it highly offensive. If I were a zealous person, I might have stood up and used it as a chance to take a philosophical shot at the pastor who pissed me off too.

For Tillman, who obviously feels he is 'right', he couldn't pass that up, any moreso than the people who felt they were 'right' enough to speak in religious terms about a man they didn't know, in a setting that wasn't religious.

Pat Tillman was awarded The Purple Heart & Silver Star & was killed in the 2003 Invasion of Iraq: Operation Enduring Freedom - Afghanistan.

The issue isn't about what his brother said at the funeral, although he was making the point that everyone knew his brother was not religious - see below, nor was the interview. It's about the whole case of his brother's death and the lies & deceit of the military & the Bush administration - that's what the book is about that Bill Maher was holding up to the camera:

"Patrick Daniel "Pat" Tillman (November 6, 1976 – April 22, 2004) was an American football player who left his professional sports career and enlisted in the United States Army in June 2002, in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001, attacks. He joined the United States Army Rangers and served multiple tours in combat before he died in the mountains of Afghanistan. Initially, the U.S. government attempted a cover-up, reporting that Tillman had been killed by enemy fire, with Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal approving a Silver Star citation. Later, his actual cause of death by friendly fire was recognized.

A New York Times book review of Jon Krakauer's Where Men Win Glory: The Odyssey of Pat Tillman noted that the book did well to compile the facts and "nauseating" details regarding the cover-up of Tillman's death, stating "After Tillman’s death, Army commanders, aided and abetted by members of the Bush administration, violated many of their own rules, not to mention elementary standards of decency, to turn the killing into a propaganda coup for the American side." "

"Krakauer described Tillman as "agnostic, perhaps an atheist", while later news reports state he was an atheist. According to speakers at his funeral, he was very well-read, having read a number of religious texts including the Bible, Qur’an and Book of Mormon as well as transcendentalist authors such as Ralph Waldo Emerson and Henry David Thoreau. However, responding to religious overtones at the funeral, his younger brother Rich stated that "Pat isn't with God. He's ****ing dead. He wasn't religious. So thank you for your thoughts, but he's ****ing dead." Another article quotes Tillman as having told then-general manager of the Seattle Seahawks Bob Ferguson in December 2003 "you know I'm not religious."

The September 25, 2005, edition of the San Francisco Chronicle newspaper reported that Tillman held views which were critical of the Iraq war. According to Tillman's mother, a friend of Tillman had arranged a meeting with author Noam Chomsky, a prominent critic of American foreign and military policy, to take place after his return from Afghanistan. Chomsky has confirmed this."

Pat Tillman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[#juan]

I agree and disagree all at once. I can remember how offended and downright angry I was when my uncle's funeral was highjacked as a chance to preach how not being 'born again' meant we were all going to burn in hell. I found it highly offensive. If I were a zealous person, I might have stood up and used it as a chance to take a philosophical shot at the pastor who pissed me off too.

For Tillman, who obviously feels he is 'right', he couldn't pass that up, any moreso than the people who felt they were 'right' enough to speak in religious terms about a man they didn't know, in a setting that wasn't religious.

Karrie
Richard Tillman made a fool of himself at his brother's Christian funeral. I don.t care what his beliefs were. They were not the befiefs of the majority of people at that funeral. During his interview he used his bereavement, an event from six or seven years ago to justify his foul language
to sell a book. Don't you think it is time for him to move on?

 

[Kreskin]

Can't he make a point without swearing? I found him less credible at each f-word.

Weren't there kids around during his eulogy? Someone should've smacked him across the head.

 

[karrie]

Pat Tillman was awarded The Purple Heart & Silver Star & was killed in the 2003 Invasion of Iraq: Operation Enduring Freedom - Afghanistan.

The issue isn't about what his brother said at the funeral, although he was making the point that everyone knew his brother was not religious - see below, nor was the interview. It's about the whole case of his brother's death and the lies & deceit of the military & the Bush administration - that's what the book is about that Bill Maher was holding up to the camera:

Okay, sure... but your thread title highlighted what portion of the issue you were focusing on.

Karrie
Richard Tillman made a fool of himself at his brother's Christian funeral. I don.t care what his beliefs were. They were not the befiefs of the majority of people at that funeral. During his interview he used his bereavement, an event from six or seven years ago to justify his foul language
to sell a book. Don't you think it is time for him to move on?

I didn't see a Christian funeral. I saw an open air funeral at a gravesite. To me that usually says secular, no?

Can't he make a point without swearing? I found him less credible at each f-word.

Weren't there kids around during his eulogy? Someone should've smacked him across the head.

He showed up to his brother's memorial service in a t-shirt, with beer in hand... he's a frat boy. An overgrown frat boy.

Credible doesn't factor in. Unfortunately he'll probably be president one day.

 

[Bcool]

Karrie
Richard Tillman made a fool of himself at his brother's Christian funeral. I don.t care what his beliefs were. They were not the befiefs of the majority of people at that funeral. During his interview he used his bereavement, an event from six or seven years ago to justify his foul language
to sell a book. Don't you think it is time for him to move on?

It's not his book. It wasn't a christian funeral. And it was a funeral FOR Patrick Tillman, not for the people who were there who didn't know him well enough to know about his beliefs & shouldn't expect their personal beliefs to take precedence at someone else's funeral - they can have their own in truckloads at their own funeral. At it people like McCain talked of him as a religious person - IOW they didn't know him. He and the family can't move on, the investigations into what really happened and who was involved and why are still going on. If I had a brother or sister in a close knit family killed and their death used in a faked up story to serve a bunch of political and military agenda's, I'd still be swearing about it twenty years later!

Karrie said: "Okay, sure... but your thread title highlighted what portion of the issue you were focusing on."

Fair enough. I took the thread title from Richard Dawkin's title of the Op Ed & video on his site. And before any rants start about that, he's not the only one using it as a header.

 

[wulfie68]

It's not his book. It wasn't a christian funeral. And it was a funeral FOR Patrick Tillman, not for the people who were there who didn't know him well enough to know about his beliefs & shouldn't expect their personal beliefs to take precedence at someone else's funeral - they can have their own in truckloads at their own funeral. At it people like McCain talked of him as a religious person - IOW they didn't know him. He and the family can't move on, the investigations into what really happened and who was involved and why are still going on. If I had a brother or sister in a close knit family killed and their death used in a faked up story to serve a bunch of political and military agenda's, I'd still be swearing about it twenty years later!

I'm kind of torn on this but Bcool hit pretty close to where I sit:

- Funerals are for the family and friends but about the one they lost. How can you remember the departed without respecting their beliefs? Little brother's choice of language may not be in the best of taste but his sentiment was valid in that situation.

- How can a family move on when its how many years later and the facts are still coming out about the cover up?

- Little brother would have a whole lot more credibility if he'd leave the F-bombs and beers at home. There's a time and place for that.

 

[Curiosity]

I can see grief doing many things to many people.

What would be family discussion - perhaps argument - perhaps a fight or two between members on issues of importance - often about "When I die" kind of issues, members are going to have strong opinion for or against
the person who is dying or has died.

Ultimately however we can't discount the person who has lost the fight for survival regardless of why and how - and can only side with their 'last wishes' and hopefully put to rest conflict within ourselves so we can give them their send off in acceptance.

No doubt the brother was feeling the terrible waste of losing a loved one to a military action he did not believe in or disagreed with but it was his brother's decision. I hope one day after his grief becomes less
harsh he will let the love for his brother allow him to understand and make peace with it.

Nobody in war "dies in vain" but for those left behind or disagree with the concept of mankind fighting mankind in declared wars - it is a difficult process. I hope someday there are more pacific ways to settle
our wishes as to the future of the population of our species.

 

[ironsides]

What mistake?
People like Bill Mahr scare sheep like ironsides,because they can see throught the bs.

If you take as gospel truth the babblings of the likes of Adam Baldwin, Rosie O'Donnell, Sean Penn and Willie Maher (as those that know him call him) then there is no hope or change coming, they are the idiot fringe of the Left. We know what the Republicans plan to do, the Democrats are already creating their debacles.

Bill Maher interviews Richard Tillman brother of Pat Tillman, an American football star who joined up & was killed by suspicious "friendly fire".

How can one expect to invoke any sympathy from a self proclaimed atheist. Bill Maher is just another media clown. Why did he appear on the show.

 

[Cliffy]

If you take as gospel truth the babblings of the likes of Adam Baldwin, Rosie O'Donnell, Sean Penn and Willie Maher (as those that know him call him) then there is no hope or change coming, they are the idiot fringe of the Left. We know what the Republicans plan to do, the Democrats are already creating their debacles.

How can one expect to invoke any sympathy from a self proclaimed atheist. Bill Maher is just another media clown. Why did he appear on the show.

So this guy was killed by his own men because he was an atheist? And because he was an atheist he deserved it? And you think the lefties are sick. Did you watch the trailer for "Jesus Camp" posted elsewhere here? Now that is sick.

 

[ironsides]

So this guy was killed by his own men because he was an atheist? And because he was an atheist he deserved it? And you think the lefties are sick. Did you watch the trailer for "Jesus Camp" posted elsewhere here? Now that is sick.

Anybody that kills someone because of what they believe in is sick. Pat Tillman was killed by a tragic accident, not for what he did or did not believe in. It takes a Lefty to say anything else, why, because they can thanks to men like Pat Tillman. Just not interested in Jesus camp, never watched it.

 

[Bcool]

If you take as gospel truth the babblings of the likes of Adam Baldwin, Rosie O'Donnell, Sean Penn and Willie Maher (as those that know him call him) then there is no hope or change coming, they are the idiot fringe of the Left. We know what the Republicans plan to do, the Democrats are already creating their debacles.

Ya know, on reading this what immediately came to mind were the images of Sean Penn, with one or two others, swimming through the rising flood waters in New Orleans with children and near drowning adults in his arms desperately trying to get them to safety and he & another man breaking through an attic wall with their bare, bloody fists & getting a whole family out of that attic as the water was pouring in. I don't think anyone refused his help or anyone else's at the time because they didn't like his politics. I gather you would have probably. Hypothetical, but answer if you want of course.

How can one expect to invoke any sympathy from a self proclaimed atheist. Bill Maher is just another media clown. Why did he appear on the show.

Why did Bill Maher appear on the "Real Time With Bill Maher" show? Um.....

Atheists are not entitled to any sympathy? Why not?

 

[Cliffy]

Why did Bill Maher appear on the "Real Time With Bill Maher" show? Um.....

Atheists are not entitled to any sympathy? Why not?

'Cause only pinko commie fags are atheists?

 

[damngrumpy]

He is dead no doubt about that. Bill does a good job in raising interest on a wide variety of subjects.
This business about he is a hero simply because he fought for America is little more than nonsense.
Also I don't subscribe to the idea that its Gods Will, or that one goes to heaven or hell or anywhere
else. I went through that stuff as a kid, and I bin there done that. Religion has its place for those who
want to believe everything literally. The place is their private business, and as long as they don't try
to take control of my government and push their beliefs down my throat fine.
The problem is, there are all kinds of people who are working to do just that. They insist that if you
don't believe what they believe, you are a commie, or you're going to hell or what ever.
Most don't even clue in they are behaving like those we are fighting, in the Middle East the essence
of this particular story. The Taliban, want to force people to believe what they believe. Name calling,
infidels, is the prime one for Muslims, among other things. Christians tend to say you are going to hell,
you are a commie or a fag, or whatever insult they feel is appropriate. To me a tyrant is a tyrant no
matter what label they wear. I have my own beliefs and I really don't care what someone who needs
to have something bigger than himself thinks. The soldier in question was killed by his own and they
tried to cover it up, and they will use God or anyone else to accomplish their ends and some people
just can't handle that.