Health Care Summit

[Tonington]

I'm stealing a page out of JBee's C/P book:lol:

A very good replication! It completely re-framed the issue to something more convenient and easier to knock down. Well done!

The summit is about reform obviously (not socialized/nationalized medicine,) and the Republicans should be there unless they happen to feel that the system is in perfect working order. It's a simple choice. They can compromise, or be the party of no ...as they say. I understand their hesitation though, after Obama handled them easily (without a teleprompter!) in the Question Period style event after the State of the Union address.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Except for the ones that can't afford it or the ever increasing amount of the middle class who can't either because of high costs. Even buisnesses are pulling back from insuring their employees.

Quite so. I heard it on CNN that last year 70 % of all the bankruptcies were filed because fo medical costs, people just couldn't afford to pay them.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Sadly the statistics regarding US health care are all too true. The US ranks only 49th in life expectancy largely as a result of a health care system that does not do its job. http://www.kaiseredu.org/topics_im.asp?imID=1&parentID=61&id=358

Quite so. And don't forget the infant mortality. Infant mortality in USA is very high, much higher than most developed countries.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

A very good replication! It completely re-framed the issue to something more convenient and easier to knock down. Well done!

The summit is about reform obviously (not socialized/nationalized medicine,) and the Republicans should be there unless they happen to feel that the system is in perfect working order. It's a simple choice. They can compromise, or be the party of no ...as they say. I understand their hesitation though, after Obama handled them easily (without a teleprompter!) in the Question Period style event after the State of the Union address.

Republicans are not interested in health care reform, they like the present system just fine.

It all depends upon if the Democrats can get their act together. They have a procedure available called reconciliation, by which they can pass the health care reform by a simple majority, they can get around the filibuster in the senate.

The question is if they have enough resolve, enough determination to pass something.

 

[Highball]

Simply put, if the Congress of the United Sates would propose to extend to all Americans the Health Care Plan they now enjoy (and will after retirement too) the whole question would be a moot point. But the Congress instead likes to look down on the citizens as serf's and give them a lesser form of Health Care coverage. And then the fact that this is a divided system becomes apparent to all.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Simply put, if the Congress of the United Sates would propose to extend to all Americans the Health Care Plan they now enjoy (and will after retirement too) the whole question would be a moot point. But the Congress instead likes to look down on the citizens as serf's and give them a lesser form of Health Care coverage. And then the fact that this is a divided system becomes apparent to all.

And who is going to pay for that, Highball? I understand that Congress has a very good plan, the Cadillac plan. How much would it cost to put everybody on it? It will shoot up the deficit even higher (and it is already sky high).

 

[darkbeaver]

Americans are not being fed housed or employed so why should they expect health care from their wealthy owners? Depressions are depressing especially for the depressed. The bankers wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[GreenFish66]

Health care is a social issue and should be treated as such.Health Care For 1 and all !...Why should the Greedy / Self Absorbed Rich Biz leaders/ Gov be the only ones to live forever ?:angry3:8O ;-) ...Just because they can afford the insurance and have a good package .Why should this disclude others .Right?..Is Unfair indeed..Reform is always needed...

Let's cut out the useless drugs and put More money where it is needed .... Research and Development of cures and life saving procedures.(New Tech)!..So we all can afford that new heart surgery ...

Sustainability, Prosperity and Longivity 4 all!...Effeciently with 0 waste..... Now and Forever Positively Forward ..

Green/Clean Tech Holds the Key ...Is the Answer..

Peace, Prosperity, HealthCare 4 all !:canada:

 

[ironsides]

In America, there is nothing preventing anyone from purchasing good health insurance. If you can afford it get it, if not take what is given to you and be thankful, why should those who can afford more have to give up some of their health care for others. Just give the other 40 million or so a health plan. It would be much cheaper than revamping the whole system. There is no reason why we should also join in the misery other countries are enduring.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Americans are not being fed housed or employed so why should they expect health care from their wealthy owners? Depressions are depressing especially for the depressed. The bankers wouldn't have it any other way.

Quite so, health care is not a right. For that matter, food and housing is not a right, government doesn't have to provide for it. But in all the developed countries (except USA, of course), there is a general consensus in the society that everyone is entitled to adequate health care.

 

[AnnaG]

Quite so, health care is not a right. For that matter, food and housing is not a right, government doesn't have to provide for it. But in all the developed countries (except USA, of course), there is a general consensus in the society that everyone is entitled to adequate health care.

Really? Care to show us this consensus that shows Americans don't think everyone should have healthcare?

 

[AnnaG]

I found a bit on what most Americans want:

And while a majority say controlling costs should be the legislation's top goal, more than nine in 10 oppose limits on getting whatever tests or treatments they and their doctors think are necessary.

- Poll: Americans want health care bill, but not the cost - USATODAY.com

 

[ironsides]

Quite so, health care is not a right. For that matter, food and housing is not a right, government doesn't have to provide for it. But in all the developed countries (except USA, of course), there is a general consensus in the society that everyone is entitled to adequate health care.

Excuse me SJP, but we do take care of food and shelter because it is a right that all Americans have food and shelter. We do not need a Constitutional Amendment or any special law for it to happen, it just does. Admittedly there are quite a few who do not take advantage of that right. You really know so little of us. I do know that in Canada one would not starve or go without shelter either.
By the way, in the U.S. we all want health care, but not your version.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Excuse me SJP, but we do take care of food and shelter because it is a right that all Americans have food and shelter.

Really? And where is that right enumerated? In the Bill of Rights? In the constitution? The fact is, nowhere it days that food and shelter are basic rights, developed countries provide it because they can afford it. However, there are many poor countries in Asia and Africa which do not provide adequate food and shelter to their citizens.

We do not need a Constitutional Amendment or any special law for it to happen, it just does. Admittedly there are quite a few who do not take advantage of that right. You really know so little of us. I do know that in Canada one would not starve or go without shelter either.

Quite so, it just happens because your country can afford it. Countires which cannot afford to provide food and shleter to all its citizens do not guarantee it. It is not a guaranteed right.

By the way, in the U.S. we all want health care, but not your version.

But of course, ask people if government should give them a million dollars, and they will all answer yes. Same way, ask them if everybody should have health care, they will answer yes. But they don't want to pay for it.

 

[ironsides]

How can any government tell a doctor what or how to treat a patient?

 

[ironsides]

Really? And where is that right enumerated? In the Bill of Rights? In the constitution? The fact is, nowhere it days that food and shelter are basic rights, developed countries provide it because they can afford it. However, there are many poor countries in Asia and Africa which do not provide adequate food and shelter to their citizens.



Quite so, it just happens because your country can afford it. Countires which cannot afford to provide food and shleter to all its citizens do not guarantee it. It is not a guaranteed right.



But of course, ask people if government should give them a million dollars, and they will all answer yes. Same way, ask them if everybody should have health care, they will answer yes. But they don't want to pay for it.

If I remember right, you/we were talking about the United States, not Uganda. Giving each American a million dollars would be cheaper than this health care bill Obama wants to ram down our throats.

 

[TenPenny]

How can any government tell a doctor what or how to treat a patient?

They have to ask the insurance company or HMO for permission first.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

If I remember right, you/we were talking about the United States, not Uganda. Giving each American a million dollars would be cheaper than this health care bill Obama wants to ram down our throats.

I thought we were discussing whether food and shelter is a basic right. And it is not. As to giving everybody in USA a million $ each, that would mean a total of 300 milliom million of 300 hundred trillion dollars. Is the health care reform going to cost more than 300 trillion dollars?

I know you don't support the health care reform, but don't exaggerate, that simply weakens your argument.

 

[GreenFish66]

Incorporating the Best Ideas from Both Parties - Barack Obama | Government News from the White House and Congress - Senate/House of Representatives

 

[AnnaG]

Excuse me SJP, but we do take care of food and shelter because it is a right that all Americans have food and shelter. We do not need a Constitutional Amendment or any special law for it to happen, it just does. Admittedly there are quite a few who do not take advantage of that right. You really know so little of us. I do know that in Canada one would not starve or go without shelter either.
By the way, in the U.S. we all want health care, but not your version.

Actually we do have people here without adequate food and shelter. The Downtown Eastside of Vancouver (only a half dozen blocks from the Olympic site) is loaded with people that have little or no food and shelter. Some are deprived of the basic right to life.
Sir Porker hasn't a clue what a right is, though, and likely doesn't think anything is a right unless its printed on a piece of paper. It would do him good to go live on the street for a few months just to get his view of reality opened up from its pinhole.