I tend to agree but then there are those who think Harper is a liability to any political party. "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones". :smile::smile::smile:
Has Harper got the "balls"?
- Thread starter JLM
- Start date
I tend to agree but then there are those who think Harper is a liability to any political party. "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones". :smile::smile::smile:
I'm not sure which is worse, being corrupt or incompetent.
A few Liberals stole millions of taxpayer's money, but the Conservatives pissed away over a $billion on a cocktail party.
I'm not sure I like the direction Harper would lead Canada. Apparently he has no problem with turning Toronto into a police state. How far would he go in that direction if he had a majority?
Giving the police only two months notice before the G20 summit was another big screw up. So was awarding the security contract to their buddies without any competive process and circumventing laws that regulate security firms operating in Ontario.
Now it appears he got rid of Guergis based on rumors and innuendo. Anyone who has gone to a rock concert is guilty of partying with druggies and prostitutes.
Harper's ego is way too big and he certainly deserves to be taken down. If the Conservatives don't hang Harper themselves before the next election, they will get crushed in the next election, provided the Liberals get rid of Ignatieff.
That pretty much leaves the NDP and the Green Party as the only intelligent choices left in the next federal election.
The cocktails were part of an all inclusive deal when you bought a front row seat in the riotorium.
The previous corrupt government was seriously incompentent... A double threat if you will.
Millions?.. Just millions?
Maybe you didn't get the memo, between Shawingate, David Dingwall, Adscam and the gun registry (alone), they ventured well into the billions... Hell, that is only the corruption we are aware of.
Well, he could have invested the money into purchasing "fire-extinguisher-style-cans" of pepper spray and blinded hundreds like Chretin did in Vancouver at the G8 there.
Then again, considering the violence and damage exacted by the mob in Toronto, one can make the case that Harper didn't go far enough.
Guergis made an ass of herself all on her own... Wait, scratch that - She also had help from her hubby.
Happer did exactly what he should have and reported to the RCMP and passed the file to the ethics commission.
Yeah... Sure.
You gotta be kidding
Maybe I'll run and straigten the whole mess. I'd be hated the first two years then after that the voters would never go with another system again after being re-empowered to play a role in their own governance.
Sound good? Would you like to have a real say in what goes on?
There are degrees of both.
And the Glibs subjected us to $2+ billion in virtually useless firearms registry before they decided to line their personal pockets. Want to keep swapping horror stories? You'll lose because the Glibs have spent more time as a gov't with their incompetence and corruption than the Cons with theirs.
Turdeau invoked martial law.
Yeah, Glibs never ever did stuff to pad their buddies' pockets. :roll:
roflmao "Intelligent choice" is an opinion. If I vote, it'll probably be for an Indie candidate. So far, Indie's seem (for the most part) to have more of a grasp on reality according to the common Canadian than the others.
Actually, I'm convinced that the main reason the gun registry cost so much is that the money was actually routed into Liberal and Liberal-friendly pockets. Consultants, advisors, planners.
Think about it - every province runs software to register cars and drivers, they interlink with insurance company databases.
Why would it cost billions to take the same concept and extend it to guns? I think a group of high school programmers could do it in a few weeks.
lol You may have a point there. But I would imagine it took some pile of money just to even get the thing to startup., whereas vehicle registries and stuff were already up and running. The rest has been tacked on since. "The causes of the cost overruns have been blamed on the inexperience of the Justice Department in managing a project of such scale." Wiki
It hit the $2 billion mark in 2004 and about $3 to $4 million is added each year to the cost.
The last I heard (about 2005) 4/5 of the gunshot deaths and injuries in Canada were from suicide attempts. Registering sure helped didn't it? lol
Anyway, about Guergis, I'd hire her back but tell her to keep her hubby the hell away from her while she's working and her gov't activities.
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He's not even an MP, let alone a Cabinet Minister. Or did you mean we should judge a person by his spouse? If so, i think that's a little unfair. Guergis should be judged on her own merits, not on her husbands. Women are no longer chattel property.
Agreed. If a politician ever admitted to a mistake, I'd have to rewind and play back just to be sure I heard him right.
I agree, and I happen to be sitting in Charlottetown right now, about a mile from the airport. I have this desire to scream, be abusive, and throw my shoes. Somehow, though, I don't think my wife would consider that acceptable behavior.
Don't et me wrong. I'm not impressed by Guergis' behaviour either. That said, she doesn't live in my riding and so I don't get to vote for her anyway. I'm just saying though that we should not judge her by her husband's behaviour in principle. It does happen that good people end up marrying people underserving of them. Of course in this case she and her husband may very well deserve each other, but on principle we still should not judge them based on the actions of the other.
Also, just to clarify. I'm not necessarily suggesting that the PM reinstate her or apologize for anything. What's done is done. But it was absolutely crass of him to announce publicly that he'd reported her to the RCMP. He could have done so secretly and all we'd have needed to know from him was that she was no longer a minister. Beyond that, the reasons for it were none of our business. How is it that Harper publicizes what he shouldn't but keeps secret what he should publicize?
Again this goes back to the issue that people will b*tch, no matter how the PM handles it. People criticize him (including in this thread) of being secretive and not disclosing enough... yet here we have criticism for disclosing that he had removed her from her cabinet post and caucus, and called in the RCMP for what were farily serious allegations. If he hadn't, the opposition, most of the people on these forums, in the media and every peanut gallery in the country would have been crying cover up.
I think the PM handled this the way he had to. He couldn't ignore the allegations that had been made (because if they were true...).He couldn't keep things under wrap, especially in a minority parliament. And he couldn't disclose too much to Guergis without the risk of tainting any RCMP probe into her behaviour.
As for her possible reinstatement, her very public behaviour first in Charlottetown, then in going to the media, does cast doubt on her. Her husband is also relevant in this case because of the types of behaviour he has exhibited. The OPP may have screwed the pooch in handling his arrest for DUI and cocaine possession but thats a major red flag on the man, especially the coke... and the type of behaviour that calls into question his spouse's judgement, as well, because it is possible but not likely that he would use that type of drug without her knowledge. The extra investigations about influence peddling et al by him don't help them either.
Her career is pretty much over and rightfully so.
It's just a TV show called Canada. Get over it or stop watching the three 10 minute daily doses.
By the way....Harper has yet to drop.
By the way....Harper has yet to drop.
I think you are mostly right, Wulfie. However if the Charlottetown incident justified firing she should have been fired then. I don't think however what you have said precludes Harper from apologizing to her and while I doubt very much if she's "cabinet material" I think she should be allowed to remain as a Conservative and let the electorate decide on whether they want her or not.
Guergis can start her own Progressive Conservative party and she would be able to pull 45% of the Conservative members to join her party.
Stephen Harper made her a political martyr
Stephen Harper made her a political martyr
Do I think a billion bucks was excessive for G20 security??? Damn right I do.
Did Harper turn Toronto into a police state?
Well, let's see.....Bill Blair is police chief, and he was responsible for the arrest of peaceful protestors while the violent activists misbehaved totally free from much-deserved batons to the head. He works for the mayor of Toronto David Miller.....who couldn't make a face like a Conservative, or even like a person with a functioning intellect...........
And the offending laws were passed by the Ontarion cabinet, led by Dalton McGuinty, who is not only a Liberal, but pretty well the antitheses of everything Harper.....so you should hang the excesses (aside from the expense) on people that are NOT Harper.
As for the NDP and the Greens....go for it!!!!
A good PM can distinguish between public information and private information. The public should be publicized, the private not. Harper seems to have it the other way around. As for Guergis being kicked out of the Conservative Party, well, while members of the Conservative Party have a right to know that she's no longer a member of the party (though not necessarily whether she quit or got kicked out or the reasons for it, unless she should choose to divulge that info herself),and while the public has a right to know Guergis is not longer a Cabinet Minister, it's none of our business why until the RCMP comes to a conclusion. Had I found out for the first time this week that the PM had reported Guergis to the RCMP owing to the RCMP publicizing the case and its conclusion, I'd actually have been impressed with Harper for having shown some respect for a fellow human being.
And your suggestions that I'm somehow playing partisan politics here is ludicrous. Just read my past posts and you'll see I can be just as harsh of any political party.
This has to do with Harper (and not necessarily a reflection of any other member of the Conservaive Party) just having no sense of what is public information and private information, and seems to get them all mixed up.
I think the PM handled this the way he had to. He couldn't ignore the allegations that had been made (because if they were true...).He couldn't keep things under wrap, especially in a minority parliament. And he couldn't disclose too much to Guergis without the risk of tainting any RCMP probe into her behaviour.
As for her possible reinstatement, her very public behaviour first in Charlottetown, then in going to the media, does cast doubt on her. Her husband is also relevant in this case because of the types of behaviour he has exhibited. The OPP may have screwed the pooch in handling his arrest for DUI and cocaine possession but thats a major red flag on the man, especially the coke... and the type of behaviour that calls into question his spouse's judgement, as well, because it is possible but not likely that he would use that type of drug without her knowledge. The extra investigations about influence peddling et al by him don't help them either.
Her career is pretty much over and rightfully so.[/QUOTE]
I doubt it very much. Within her riding, people might giver her a chance to redeem herself, but I'm sure they'll consider her behaviour at the airport and other factors, and expect her to work hard to redeem herself. After all, your MP is also a relfection of your community. If you have a dunce representing your riding, or a spoilt brat, what does that say of the voters in your riding, that they should be attracted to such a person.
As for the NDP and the Greens....go for it!!!!
As for blue and moderate Greens and New Democrats, probably most are OK. As for probably most red Greens and more extreme New Democrats, some of them likely applauded the thugs smashing windows in Toronto, or at least excused their actions as acceptable or tolerable.
If an MP had to run a bi-election every time there was an incident, we'd be having bi-elections yearly across the country.
Also, why should Guergis have to run a bi-election for Harper's actions (he's the one who'd reported her to the police and announced it to the public)? As far as the RCMP is concerned, she's done nothing yet that can be proven. So so far, we know what Harper has done, but not what Guergis has done. Why should an MP have o rerun for something they may or may not have done? What about due process? Instead, following your logic, Harper should run for the scandal he'd created.
Sorry, but I'm just following your logic here.
So if he didn't say something to begin with, he'd be blamed for being sneaky. I'd sooner be blamed for being upfront than be blamed for being sneaky.
How would it have been sneaky? The RCMP would surely release whatever information it deems the public ought to know. As long as the PM doesn't interfere with that, what's the issue. Or if the PM absolutely had to reveal to Parliament why he'd let her go, at the very least he could have done it in a nicer way by for example stating that her removal is temporary until a final verdict by the RCMP, or some other comment so as not to destroy her reputation. Besides, with her charade at the airport, she doesn't need help from him to destroy her reputation. The destruction of her reputation should be hers and hers alone.