Harper rips Elections Canada over veil ruling

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,666
113
Northern Ontario,
Ain't it funny how two people reading the same article take from it two different perspective.....Some see it as strictly PC failing.......I see general political tactics (red or blue) of dancing the political dance of passing the buck......If anyone has watched question period in parliament.....nobody gives a direct answer....they just dance around the question....:angryfire:
 

elevennevele

Electoral Member
Mar 13, 2006
787
11
18
Canada
If someone reads this http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007/09/10/4484435-cp.html It sure seems as if everyone is dancing around the question and nobody is leading............:roll:



There never really was anybody leading since the last election. Since the last election, everyone has still been in campaign mode. Especially those that make up the 'new', 'newest' of the 'new(!)' government of Canada. How could the Conservatives not be campaigning and yet running negative advertisements pre-any-election?

YEP, they've been campaigning this whole time and Harper feels he struck gold with this issue trying to take the easy route of popular opinion.

I guess the burka women are just going to have to mail in their votes from now on. Problem solved!
 

Canucklehead

Moderator
Apr 6, 2005
797
11
18
There never really was anybody leading since the last election. Since the last election, everyone has still been in campaign mode. Especially those that make up the 'new', 'newest' of the 'new(!)' government of Canada. How could the Conservatives not be campaigning and yet running negative advertisements pre-any-election?

YEP, they've been campaigning this whole time and Harper feels he struck gold with this issue trying to take the easy route of popular opinion.

I guess the burka women are just going to have to mail in their votes from now on. Problem solved!

Forgive my ignorance of our voting laws but are we allowed to mail in ballots whilst still in the country? If so then what's the fuss over ID at all... if not, I hope all those devout muslims don't mind a pilgrimage , visit to their home country or, vacation at election time so their 'sensibilities' aren't offended.
 

elevennevele

Electoral Member
Mar 13, 2006
787
11
18
Canada
http://www.canadapost.ca/business/offerings/vote_by_mail/can/about_faqs-e.asp
  1. What is Vote by Mail? Vote by Mail is a method of conducting elections and referendums using the mail. It helps to eliminate the need for polling stations, advance polls, or proxy voting. Essentially, every mailbox is transformed into a ballot box. When voting is as easy as mailing a letter, more people are likely to cast their ballots.
  2. Why choose Vote by Mail?
    • Improves voter turnout: Conducting elections through the mail eliminates many of the obstacles, which traditionally keep voters away from the ballot box. Voters can cast their ballot when it's convenient. They no longer have to worry about fitting it into their hectic schedules and bad weather is never a deterrent. Some seniors and people with disabilities will find it much easier to cast their ballots from home. In communities where much of the population is made up of seasonal residents, voting by mail allows these seasonal residents to cast their votes without having to travel long distances. Receiving their ballot at home allows people to vote in complete privacy.

I really don't think our democracy is really in jeopardy with this issue and cooler heads I'm sure can work to smooth out the system in order to satisfy concerns. To me that would be the Canadian way. However look at how much the issue has fanned the flames. All at the expense of the muslim community who never asked to raise the issue in the first place.

And what a way to heat it all up with the PM jumping head first to stir the pot. The public unnecessarily being whipped up in a frenzy.


"Voters can cast their ballot when it's convenient. They no longer have to worry about fitting it into their hectic schedules and bad weather is never a deterrent. Some seniors and people with disabilities will find it much easier to cast their ballots from home."

I mean really. How much more anonymous is that? And it allows greater democracy through greater inclusiveness of the process.
 

elevennevele

Electoral Member
Mar 13, 2006
787
11
18
Canada
Currently however I have to say that all parties are starting to look stupid with this issue. Jumping headstrong into popular opinion without thinking it through with cool heads.

I'm really concerned we are starting to lose our way as a people. Becoming lost in the hysteria of a world that we may be equally defining in as much as being caught in the currents that are beyond our control. And all rushing to the same place which is down the sinkhole.
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
1,339
30
48
Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
It's funny how since it concerns "Muslims", folks have gotten all hot and bothered over it.

Lots of "these people"s and what "they" are trying to do. Odd how some of the folks on this site who stamp ALL over folks asking questions (usually calling them "moonbats" or whatever) are SO quick to build a goddamn mountain out of THIS silly little issue. Why not just shut up and worry about something that actually matters eh??
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
It's funny how since it concerns "Muslims", folks have gotten all hot and bothered over it.

Lots of "these people"s and what "they" are trying to do. Odd how some of the folks on this site who stamp ALL over folks asking questions (usually calling them "moonbats" or whatever) are SO quick to build a goddamn mountain out of THIS silly little issue. Why not just shut up and worry about something that actually matters eh??
You mean like groups of people getting rights and priviledges, that negate traditional Canadian ways?

Seems important enough to me...

They could be Amish for all I care. It isn't the religion, it's the principal and the precedent.
 

JoeSchmoe

Time Out
May 28, 2007
214
24
18
Vancouver Island
There are a few ways people can verify their ID when they vote. ONLY ONE involves verifying who they are with picture ID. You can also present bills addressed to your place of residence. No photo verification is required. Also I believe another voter in the same district can swear to your identity. Again, no photo verification is necessary.

People can also mail in ballots. No verification is required. I can wear a ski mask while I fill out the ballot if I choose to! No one is there to verify who I am!

So give it a rest already.... if verifying ID's using a picture is what should happen, then change the law!! What we have are a bunch of idiot politicians who MADE the RULES, but still don't know them.... and idiot forum members who don't know what the rules are before they post a bunch of gibberish.
 

Andem

dev
Mar 24, 2002
5,645
129
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Larnaka
This is such a non-issue. The director of Elections Canada has no right to make or break laws, period.

Furthermore, if you don't respect Canada, its laws, its [albeit eroding] culture and ways, get out! You can't change us just because you weren't allowed to vote in your own country. Remove the veil, prove your identity and vote if you're permitted to.

Canada gives special rights to some and then not to others. Expect friction and definate side-effects in the future. The multiculture experiment is not something Canada ever asked for.. giving special rights to pre-80s-non-Canadians* was certainly never part of the bargain.

* trying to sound politically correct.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
I can wear a ski mask while I fill out the ballot if I choose to! No one is there to verify who I am!

I am so F ing there! I will if you will, We can exchange picks to varify. :)

As a matter of fact I encourage everyone to put on a ski mask or a hat and a bandana, grab some mail and head down to vote.

We should probably be embarrassed anyway after voting for the least of two evils.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
For the record, this was not even asked for by Muslims. There were recommendations made to Parliament that there should be amendments to the Act. The politicians failed to implement on the recommendations. Harper is blaming an unelected official purely for political gain. If they were competent enough to write clear legislation, we wouldn't even be talking about this. Period.

Elections Canada IS following the law, to the letter. Harper and the rest of the idiots in Ottawa should shut their mouthes, and fix their own mistakes. PATHETIC.
 

jwmcq625

Nominee Member
Sep 14, 2007
95
1
8
I've talked to Muslims about this and my 2 cents is....

show respect that a Muslim is not suppossed to show her face to a man...
Have a set up where she can show id and verify it by opening the thing up to a woman in a private setting, ..it could be made up of cardboard as well....
end of story....accomadate all voting citizens

All have agreed this is the way to go...
If they don't like the the way the law read, "Visual Identification," They can simply not vote. It is the poll clerk they have to satisfy as far a identity goes, is it not? If that clerk happens to be a male, then so be it, show your face or don't vote, it's quite simple.

As for Marc Mayrand, the Elections Canada bureaucrat who made this stupid ruling, and to make it worse, he was not even asked to make this ruling by the Muslim Association, he just thouth this up all on his own with his pea-sized brain. He should be told to either reverse his decision forthwith or be fired immediately for cause. I know I cannot defy my boss when he gives me a direct order without being fired for insubordination, so where dcoes this jerk get off telling a Member of Parliament when he was asked if he were ordered by this subcommittee to reverse his decision, would he? He responded by saying words to the effect; "At this point in time I will not reverse my decison."
 
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Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
Did you even bother to read the whole thread, or look into the facts of this case? Elections Canada is following the law, as it was wrote by the stupid MP's. It was a House of Commons committee that made the recommendations, and it was the House of Commons who failed miserably to write a concise document. What they gave us is a vague system of three choices for determining voter identification.

This is right from the pages of Parliament:
In the course of its deliberations the Committee was struck by the absence of any requirement for an elector to confirm his or her identity when presenting himself or herself at a polling station to vote. As long as the person’s name is on the list of electors, he or she is entitled to vote. Identification may be required only when an election official, or the candidate, or his or her representative at a polling station, have reason to doubt the identity or right to vote of an individual wishing to vote (section 144). If challenged, a voter must present “satisfactory proof of identity and residence.” The Act, however, does not prescribe what is satisfactory “proof.”(11)


Further, should the prospective voter not have satisfactory proof of identity and address when challenged, he or she may still be permitted to vote upon taking a prescribed oath (section 144(2)). The Committee considered this lack of proper identification to be a significant deficiency in the voting process and one that could encourage fraudulent voting practices.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/common/bills_ls.asp?lang=E&ls=c31&source=library_prb&Parl=39&Ses=1

I'll repeat, this is Harper playing for political points by trying to pass the buck off to an "un-elected official", a popular sentiment, but not a valid assertion at all. It turns out elected officials aren't that competent.
 

Sparrow

Council Member
Nov 12, 2006
1,202
23
38
Quebec
What about the Charter of Rights, doesn't it guarantee equality of men and women. If the special conditions mentioned are given to veiled Muslim women where is the equality!
 

JoeSchmoe

Time Out
May 28, 2007
214
24
18
Vancouver Island
What about the Charter of Rights, doesn't it guarantee equality of men and women. If the special conditions mentioned are given to veiled Muslim women where is the equality!

Please tell me you aren't really this dumb.... maybe go back and read the post directly above your's.

The issue has absolutely nothing to do with gender or being muslim. It has to do with the 3 ways in which you can verify your identity at a polling station. ONLY ONE is an actual visual check of your face compared to picture ID. The other ways do not require visual identification!
 

Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
3,460
58
48
Leiden, the Netherlands
I remember showing up at the last election at the nearest polling station. Being unregistered, I had to go through the identification verification process. I had to show two pieces of mail from my address, some identification and I had to swear an oath. Not being Christian, the oath amounted to three pieces of legal declarations signed and witnessed.

There are many ways of identifying an individual without seeing their face, for instance fingerprints, witnesses and iris scanning. The demand for visual identification is unnecessary (and more prone to error than two of the above examples) and therefore not justifiable in a free and democratic society. The parliament would never be able to pass such a law without huge charter challenges, so instead they pass off a vague piece of legislation with overly broad wordings and then clamp down on people who interpret it properly. Their aim: to create artificial jurisprudence through precedence and narrow the scope of necessarily broad legislation.