Happy D-Day

[talloola]

canada was a big part of england in those days, all of the british empire contributed.

It had to be done, it was self defense, and the united states joining in made the big difference,

it was horrible, it was necessary, and it stopped a brutal insane dictator.

I was a little girl, my brother went to belgium and france till he was wounded and sent home,
he was only 17 when he enlisted, had to wait till his 18th birthday to be sent overseas.

Wouldn't hitler have had fun murdering his way across europe and on to england, and further, if
no one had lifted a hand to stop him.

I have different feelings about more recent wars, 'not' that one.

 

[Colpy]

As far as "evil so expansive, so pervasive, so absolutely perverse," you know how many people Stalin killed?


I fought against the thugocracy of Soviet-led authoritarian socialism, which killed at least ten times as many people as the Nazis did, yet you feel free to insult me.

Could you explain the apparent contradiction?

Your figures are wrong, Stalin could not kill 10 times as many as Hitler......although I agree, he was worse on his own territory. But we could, and did, contain the USSR.

Thank you for your assistance in that task.

As we should now be doing with Communist China, a regime that killed many more than Stalin.

Hitler could not be contained, he could only be destroyed.

Everything I said, stands.

BTW, Best estimates are Hitler murdered about 10 million, Stalin 20 to 25 million, and Mao about 40 to 60 million. (by murdered I mean killed outside of warfare, directly or by design)

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Your figures are wrong, Stalin could not kill 10 times as many as Hitler......although I agree, he was worse on his own territory. But we could, and did, contain the USSR.

Thank you for your assistance in that task.

As we should now be doing with Communist China, a regime that killed many more than Stalin.

Hitler could not be contained, he could only be destroyed.

Everything I said, stands.

BTW, Best estimates are Hitler murdered about 10 million, Stalin 20 to 25 million, and Mao about 40 to 60 million. (by murdered I mean killed outside of warfare, directly or by design)

My estimates are considerably different than yours. Here's one unclassified source. . .

How Many Did Stalin Really Murder? | The Distributed Republic

If you don't feel like reading through it, his figure for Stalin is 43,000,000. And he's low.

By the way, I didn't miss the fact that you didn't answer my question.

 

[Goober]

I don't believe anybody else thinks going up against the USSR after WWII is the same thing as a UN police action in Korea. If you do, just say the word and I can explain the difference to you. Maybe you can even start a thread.



Stop being so silly.

China's biggest problem? Too many men - CNN.com

Any male that thinks dating is easier in China is either lying or attracting gold diggers. Personally, I'll take an strong independent "North American" woman any day over a Chinese woman that knows her place. Mind you, I'm a confident male.

Going by the above I will state that your post is Bulshxt. You seem to have a fondness, no a fixation really for red tags and not for debate.
So time to move on from High School- Clearly you have been stuck there for decades.

And yes I will save that post just for Shxts and Giggles.

 

[Colpy]

My estimates are considerably different than yours. Here's one unclassified source. . .

How Many Did Stalin Really Murder? | The Distributed Republic

If you don't feel like reading through it, his figure for Stalin is 43,000,000. And he's low.

By the way, I didn't miss the fact that you didn't answer my question.

Yeah....I'm apt to go for the lower estimates, simply because then when I say "Stalin murdered 20 million", I know he did at least that, and so I am not incorrect.

Estimates for the Chinese go up to 80 million..........

But even at 43 million, Stalin is no where near ten times Hitler's total.

And really.......these numbers are so incredibly vast, they begin to lose their impact.

My point was, and it stands, that Stalin could be contained. Direct war with the USSR after WWII would have been so destructive........containment was our only real sane option.

Hitler could not be contained.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Yeah....I'm apt to go for the lower estimates, simply because then when I say "Stalin murdered 20 million", I know he did at least that, and so I am not incorrect.

Estimates for the Chinese go up to 80 million..........

But even at 43 million, Stalin is no where near ten times Hitler's total.

And really.......these numbers are so incredibly vast, they begin to lose their impact.

My point was, and it stands, that Stalin could be contained. Direct war with the USSR after WWII would have been so destructive........containment was our only real sane option.

Hitler could not be contained.

Well, at least you've quit pounding the drum of our righteousness and at least acknowledged that there are limits to what we can do, and on what we're willing to do. I would suggest that European economic ties with the U.S. and Canada had as much to do with our entry into the war as any moral principles did. Not that it was that different for Britain. They were pretty happy with Hitler until he started goring their ox.

By the way, there's considerable commentary out there about the Allies not really giving much of a damn about Jews, homosexuals, Rom, and the disabled. You should look it up sometime.

I'll just assume you're not going to answer my question, K?

 

[Colpy]

And Hitler might never have seized power if the British and the French hadn't insisted that war reparations from WWI be maintained while Germany was facing the Depression.

Have we forgotten that many British, including members of the Royal Family, including the much-beloved Queen Mum, actively supported Hitler?

There are two completely valid schools of thought on the time between the wars. One is, as you have stated, that the Treaty of Versailles was far too harsh, and that it drove the Germans to rearm, and take on the world yet again.

The other is that the terms of the Treaty were not consistently enforced, allowing Germany to rearm, and go to war again.

I think there are elements of truth in both views.........and that both are far too simple.

As for the British Royal Family, the Duke of Windsor and his wife were sympathizers.......but the Queen Mum??? Perhaps sympathetic at first, but so was much of the west. And when push came to shove, she certainly was not......and her husband never was.........

You skim the surface of things, which gives nice neat talking points, but doesn't really reveal the truth.

Well, at least you've quit pounding the drum of our righteousness and at least acknowledged that there are limits to what we can do, and on what we're willing to do. I would suggest that European economic ties with the U.S. and Canada had as much to do with our entry into the war as any moral principles did. Not that it was that different for Britain. They were pretty happy with Hitler until he started goring their ox.

By the way, there's considerable commentary out there about the Allies not really giving much of a damn about Jews, homosexuals, Rom, and the disabled. You should look it up sometime.

I'll just assume you're not going to answer my question, K?

WHAT question???

And I am well aware of the lack of Allied concern for the persecuted in German held Europe.

 

[JLM]

Until quite recently I thought Hitler was responsible for more innocent deaths than anyone else ever, but apparently Stalin was responsible for up to 20 deaths.

P.S. 20 million would probably be closer! - God damn Alzheimers!

 

[EagleSmack]

Oh, you mean the part about how wonderful and glorious it was?

Sorry, man, I've been in a war (though admittedly nothing like the scale of WWII, or even D-Day). There's no wonder, there's no glory. Just a lot of death and destruction.

Glorify it as much as you like. I respectfully disagree.

See how you made this up... then say I said war was glorious.

Do you see why you have no credibility?

 

[gerryh]

Going by the above I will state that your post is Bulshxt. You seem to have a fondness, no a fixation really for red tags and not for debate.
So time to move on from High School- Clearly you have been stuck there for decades.

And yes I will save that post just for Shxts and Giggles.

what exactly is bullshyte about the post?

 

[JLM]

And yes I will save that post just for Shxts and Giggles.

:smile::smile::smile::smile:

 

[darkbeaver]

Unfortunately no it didnt kill Stalin. It made him stronger. Fortunately he did eventually die and the system he had collapsed in on itself. Im well aware that Hitler wasnt a one dimensional caricature which quite a few people see him as. He was as complex as any other person. That does not change the fact that he had to be stopped. He didnt exist? I guess all those speeches he was filmed in were totally altered, the book he wrote and published had nothing to do with him and he was some sort of closet pacifist? What proof do you have that history got him wrong? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Yes, the Japanese recovered remarkably quickly but they did not go back to a military dictatorship and threaten its neighbours. That is a huge improvement.

Memorials are not celebrations. You act as if we're all going out to have a party as if our side won the Stanley Cup. That is the furthest thing from the truth. And what is all this talk about glorifying war? Ive also never seen that. If anything all of the coverage of these anniversaries give people a little look into how awful it was. They dont say "gee that was fun, lets do it again!" No sane person would.

I know for a fact that history got him wrong. It is a time and practice honoured exercise for the victor to trash the vanguished and muddy the waters. Hitler did not start the war, the bankers did, that is common knowelge in our age, the very same bankers also funded the Soviets. Both Japan and Germany are to this day still occupied nations and continue to pay eternal reparations. There was no improvement from the second world war excepting in the area of international finance. You're wrong about what sane people will do as well. Many sane people are conducting warfare right now on this planet and it's because war is the true economy of our world.

 

[Blackleaf]

I've just watched a two-part BBC documentary series called "D-Day: The Last Heroes", presented by 34-year-old British/Canadian historian Dan Snow (the son of former Channel 4 newsreader Peter Snow and a great-great-grandson of David Lloyd George, the British Prime Minister from 1916 to 1922).

In episode one Dan tells us how two years of meticulous planning, espionage and the analysis of millions of three-dimensional aerial photographs helped the Allied Forces gain a foothold in northern France.

Episode two tells the powerful and heroic stories of those who risked their lives on the beaches of Normandy, to save the world from Nazi Germany.

In each episode Dan also speaks to some D-Day veterans - British, Canadian and American - and they tell us their memories of the day that the largest armada the world has ever seen sailed from the south coast of England to the north coast of France, and they tell us of their emotions as they jumped from their landing craft and onto the Normandy beaches in a hail of German bullets.

Parts of this documentary are quite upsetting and emotional, especially when some of the veterans have tears welling up in their eyes as they tell us of their friends they saw shot to pieces on the beaches that day almost 70 years ago.

You can watch BOTH episodes of this series here:

D Day The Last Heroes BBC full documentary 2013 Series 1 Episode 1 and epside 2 - YouTube

And here is the programme's website: BBC One - D-Day: The Last Heroes The site has profiles of the veterans interviewed in the programme; interviews with the veterans; and a list of books that you can read on the subject.

Here are some of the veterans interviewed for the documentary. Those British ones in the red uniforms and black hats are Chelsea Pensioners.

For anybody who doesn't know too well the events of D-Day, watch the series.

Trooper Roy Cadman

Sub Lieutenant Jim Booth

Sub Lt George "Jimmy" Green

Lt Ian Hammerton

Private John Perozzi

Trooper Fred Walker

Private First Class Ray Tollefson

 

[spaminator]

Young, old gather in Toronto to commemorate 73rd anniversary of D-Day | Toronto