Hamas attacks Israel

petros

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I didn't know 'bout the coral there. Found this though, too, when looking it up.


And a more recent paper: https://academic.oup.com/pnasnexus/article/4/3/pgaf049/8046449


So looks like the Red Sea can deal with coral issues better due to water temp tolerance in the coral itself.

Interesting stuff to be sure; hopefully they can keep it preserved for other places where there's coral die off.
You can count on floating settlements ruining it for everyone including Sponge Bob.

Coral has survive pretty much from the beginning and have survive everything possibld the earth, sun and universe could put it through. There are mountains of it as high as mountains can get.
 
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Ron in Regina

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What was the deal in August of 2024? Did it include Hamas stepping aside as Govt and all holocaustages released?
Yes, what “was” the deal (which was really a proposal and not a deal, but that’s neither here nor there) of August of 2024 and who agreed to it and proposed its conditions, and who rejected it, and why?
Who killed it? Ben-Gvir or Smotrich? Pick one or both. No maps, no propaganda bullshit. No Oct 7. No Holocaust. No Holocaustages rhetoric.
Why don’t you explain it as opposed to handing out homework assignments? Who did reject the “proposal” that you’re referring to? Who proposed it? Was it acceptable to both Hamas and Israel?
Who killed it, what was in it and what the fuck happened?
Yes, exactly. Israel’s goals since the beginning of this cluster fuck started Oct 7th 2023 have modified somewhat over time but have been pretty consistent having been:
1) the return of all the holocaustages
2) Hamas being disarmed & no longer a threat to Israel
3) the Gaza area demilitarized to no longer be a threat to Israel
4) the establishment of an Israeli security control over the area so that it is no longer a threat to (guess who?) Israel
5) an alternative civilian administration established in Gaza that isn’t Hamas

In the Egyptian/Qatar “proposal” that you speak of from August 2024, how many of the above boxes are checked off? Any? Or was it a piecemeal time waster to allow Hamas to resupply and rearm to drag this conflict out as long as possible?

Anyway, this is now September of 2025 and not August of 2024 any longer, and here we are today in a different situation with Hezbollah, Houthis, and Iran partially neutered and Hamas more isolated. What’s today’s proposal and how many boxes above does it check?
(YouTube & ‘It will end’: Donald Trump demands Hamas release all 20 hostages)

Trump doesn’t seem to understand that Israel wants all the holocaustages (dead and alive) returned in one go before any further negotiations can take place, but that’s where we are right now, & here’s the original declaration of Israel’s intentions with its war goals from October 2023:
1756991118661.jpeg
 

petros

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Yes, what “was” the deal (which was really a proposal and not a deal, but that’s neither here nor there) of August of 2024 and who agreed to it and proposed its conditions, and who rejected it, and why?

Why don’t you explain it as opposed to handing out homework assignments? Who did reject the “proposal” that you’re referring to? Who proposed it? Was it acceptable to both Hamas and Israel?

Yes, exactly. Israel’s goals since the beginning of this cluster fuck started Oct 7th 2023 have modified somewhat over time but have been pretty consistent having been:
1) the return of all the holocaustages
2) Hamas being disarmed & no longer a threat to Israel
3) the Gaza area demilitarized to no longer be a threat to Israel
4) the establishment of an Israeli security control over the area so that it is no longer a threat to (guess who?) Israel
5) an alternative civilian administration established in Gaza that isn’t Hamas

In the Egyptian/Qatar “proposal” that you speak of from August 2024, how many of the above boxes are checked off? Any? Or was it a piecemeal time waster to allow Hamas to resupply and rearm to drag this conflict out as long as possible?

Anyway, this is now September of 2025 and not August of 2024 any longer, and here we are today in a different situation with Hezbollah, Houthis, and Iran partially neutered and Hamas more isolated. What’s today’s proposal and how many boxes above does it check?
(YouTube & ‘It will end’: Donald Trump demands Hamas release all 20 hostages)

Trump doesn’t seem to understand that Israel wants all the holocaustages (dead and alive) returned in one go before any further negotiations can take place, but that’s where we are right now, & here’s the original declaration of Israel’s intentions with its war goals from October 2023:
View attachment 30918
Wash, rinse, repeat.

I posted a list of every time Smotrich or Ben Givr crashed an acceptable offer that free all holocaustages.

Why didn't you read them the first time?

Holocaust? Oct 7? Holocaustages?
 
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petros

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Wash, rinse, repeat.

I posted a list of every time Smotrich or Ben Givr crashed an acceptable offer that free all holocaustages.

Why didn't you read them the first time?

Holocaust? Oct 7? Holocaustages?
One little quote...

“In the last year, using our political power, we managed to prevent this deal from going ahead, time after time.” - Ben-Gvir

Is Ben-Givr "Israel"? Is Ben-Gvir "the Jews"?
 
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Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
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One little quote...

“In the last year, using our political power, we managed to prevent this deal from going ahead, time after time.” - Ben-Gvir

Is Ben-Givr "Israel"? Is Ben-Gvir "the Jews"?
You’re talking about the partial deals proposed by Egypt/Qatar that are actually lopsided proposals intended to drag this out as long as possible, as opposed to actually ending it? Those deals?

Show me a proposal from Qatar/Egypt that proposes:
1) the return of all the holocaustages in one go
2) Hamas being disarmed & no longer a threat to Israel
3) the Gaza area demilitarized to no longer be a threat to Israel
4) the establishment of an Israeli security control over the area so that it is no longer a threat to (guess who?) Israel
5) an alternative civilian administration established in Gaza that isn’t Hamas
…& if both sides agreed to that, I’m assuming this conflict will end pretty damn fast.
 

petros

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You’re talking about the partial deals proposed by Egypt/Qatar that are actually lopsided proposals intended to drag this out as long as possible, as opposed to actually ending it? Those deals?

Show me a proposal from Qatar/Egypt that proposes:

…& if both sides agreed to that, I’m assuming this conflict will end pretty damn fast.
I'm talking about agreed upon shit. You just repeat the shit the JKK spits out as excuses.

I quoted Ben-Givr admitting to it and you 100% ignore the reality and go Joe propaganda.

The JKK doesn't represent the entirety of the Israeli Govt OR GLOBAL JEWERY.

Verify your shit. Haven't you learned how to use AI to skirt Jew Power propaganda and get to the root of shit?

Holocaust, Oct 7, holocaustages. Wash, rinse, repeat.
 
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spaminator

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Canadian tax dollars funding terror-linked Gaza NGOs, group alleges
Author of the article:Bryan Passifiume
Published Sep 03, 2025 • Last updated 18 hours ago • 2 minute read

Canadian tax dollars are, once again, funding a Gaza-based NGO with ties to terror, a Jerusalem-based think tank alleges.

OTTAWA — Canadian tax dollars are, once again, funding a Gaza-based NGO with ties to terror, a Jerusalem-based think tank alleges.


A new report by NGO Monitor says the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR) — a partner in a Canadian-funded UN program called HAYA — has links to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) terror organization.


“PCHR are an unsuitable partner for any Canadian project, whether it’s solely focused on internal Palestinian issues, or if it concerns Israel,” NGO Monitor’s Naftali Balanson told the Toronto Sun.

“PCHR has deeply problematic attitudes towards violence, and as well their connections to the PFLP.”

Canada declared PFLP a terrorist organization in 2003.


The PCHR regularly engages in anti-Israel campaigns — describing Israel’s self-defence against Palestinian terrorism as a so-called “genocide,” and accusing Israel of outlandish acts like seeking out and killing Palestinian cancer patients and deliberately preventing births by pregnant women in Gaza.


One Facebook post from January accused Israel of using hunger as a weapon.

PCHR activism materials regularly feature the Government of Canada logo, and Canada is listed first on their list of partners on their website.

Facebook post by the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights
Facebook post by the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights Photo by screenshot
Inquiries by the Sun to PCHR went unreturned, and Global Affairs Canada was unwilling to provide comment by deadline.

This isn’t the first time Canadian tax dollars have funded Palestinian terrorism.

Despite being briefed on clear evidence linking Palestinian United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) employees to the Oct. 7 2023 terror attacks, the Trudeau Liberals opted to resume funding the contentious organization last March — despite following suit with the United States in halting UNRWA funding over the allegations.


PCHR founder Raji Sourani unapologetically admits to past PFLP membership and has been imprisoned several times. In 2021, he was denied entry into the United States.

According to a press release published on his charity’s own website, Sourani was feted by the terrorist group, complete with a glowing speech from PFLP political bureau officer Rabah Muhana.

In the same news release, Sourani said his award — described as the “Alternative Noble (sp) Prize” — as sending a “strong message to the free world to support the Palestinians.”

In a 2018 article published by Palestinian news outlet Donia al-Watan, Sourani affirmed his links to Palestinian terror.

“I was in the ranks of the Popular Front, and present in this place are comrades who taught us, and this organization gave us a lot, a lot, and we hope that the compass of homeland and belonging that was planted in us will remain in our minds,” Sourani said in his speech.


“We will certainly not apologize or regret our past, but rather we are all proud and honoured that we were once in this organization and fought in its ranks.”

Sourani was also gifted with portraits of PFLP terrorists Ahmed Saadat and Shadia Abu Ghazal — the latter died in 1968 while constructing a bomb in her home.

NGO Monitor has published reports on PCHR’s ties to the PFLP terror group.

“Canadian funding for PCHR violates basic moral principles and long-established policies,” says Gerald Steinberg, founder of NGO Monitor.

“Every aspect of PCHR’s involvement and the decision to support this and any other NGO propaganda projects from taxpayers funds should be made public, as is normal practice in democracies.

bpassifiume@postmedia.com

X: @bryanpassifiume
1757001196621.png
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Canadian tax dollars funding terror-linked Gaza NGOs, group alleges
Author of the article:Bryan Passifiume
Published Sep 03, 2025 • Last updated 18 hours ago • 2 minute read

Canadian tax dollars are, once again, funding a Gaza-based NGO with ties to terror, a Jerusalem-based think tank alleges.

OTTAWA — Canadian tax dollars are, once again, funding a Gaza-based NGO with ties to terror, a Jerusalem-based think tank alleges.


A new report by NGO Monitor says the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR) — a partner in a Canadian-funded UN program called HAYA — has links to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) terror organization.


“PCHR are an unsuitable partner for any Canadian project, whether it’s solely focused on internal Palestinian issues, or if it concerns Israel,” NGO Monitor’s Naftali Balanson told the Toronto Sun.

“PCHR has deeply problematic attitudes towards violence, and as well their connections to the PFLP.”

Canada declared PFLP a terrorist organization in 2003.


The PCHR regularly engages in anti-Israel campaigns — describing Israel’s self-defence against Palestinian terrorism as a so-called “genocide,” and accusing Israel of outlandish acts like seeking out and killing Palestinian cancer patients and deliberately preventing births by pregnant women in Gaza.


One Facebook post from January accused Israel of using hunger as a weapon.

PCHR activism materials regularly feature the Government of Canada logo, and Canada is listed first on their list of partners on their website.

Facebook post by the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights
Facebook post by the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights Photo by screenshot
Inquiries by the Sun to PCHR went unreturned, and Global Affairs Canada was unwilling to provide comment by deadline.

This isn’t the first time Canadian tax dollars have funded Palestinian terrorism.

Despite being briefed on clear evidence linking Palestinian United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) employees to the Oct. 7 2023 terror attacks, the Trudeau Liberals opted to resume funding the contentious organization last March — despite following suit with the United States in halting UNRWA funding over the allegations.


PCHR founder Raji Sourani unapologetically admits to past PFLP membership and has been imprisoned several times. In 2021, he was denied entry into the United States.

According to a press release published on his charity’s own website, Sourani was feted by the terrorist group, complete with a glowing speech from PFLP political bureau officer Rabah Muhana.

In the same news release, Sourani said his award — described as the “Alternative Noble (sp) Prize” — as sending a “strong message to the free world to support the Palestinians.”

In a 2018 article published by Palestinian news outlet Donia al-Watan, Sourani affirmed his links to Palestinian terror.

“I was in the ranks of the Popular Front, and present in this place are comrades who taught us, and this organization gave us a lot, a lot, and we hope that the compass of homeland and belonging that was planted in us will remain in our minds,” Sourani said in his speech.


“We will certainly not apologize or regret our past, but rather we are all proud and honoured that we were once in this organization and fought in its ranks.”

Sourani was also gifted with portraits of PFLP terrorists Ahmed Saadat and Shadia Abu Ghazal — the latter died in 1968 while constructing a bomb in her home.

NGO Monitor has published reports on PCHR’s ties to the PFLP terror group.

“Canadian funding for PCHR violates basic moral principles and long-established policies,” says Gerald Steinberg, founder of NGO Monitor.

“Every aspect of PCHR’s involvement and the decision to support this and any other NGO propaganda projects from taxpayers funds should be made public, as is normal practice in democracies.

bpassifiume@postmedia.com

X: @bryanpassifiume
View attachment 30923
An Israeli "Think tank" alleges....
 

petros

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152...

Netanyahu bashes Belgium’s ‘weak’ De Wever over pledge to recognize Palestine

Bart De Wever “wants to feed the terrorist crocodile before it devours Belgium,” the Israeli PM fumes.


Israeli PM Netanhayu presser about Operation Protective Edge

“Belgian Prime Minister de Wever is a weak leader who seeks to appease Islamic terrorism by sacrificing Israel,” Benjamin Netanyahu’s office said in a statement Wednesday on social media. |

September 3, 2025 6:30 pm CET
By Seb Starcevic

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has slammed his Belgian counterpart Bart De Wever over Belgium’s recently announced plans to recognize Palestine.

Belgium’s Foreign Minister Maxime Prévot announced this week Brussels will recognize the state of Palestine at the U.N. General Assembly and impose “firm sanctions” on Israel over its war in Gaza.

The planned recognition, which came after intensive negotiations between Belgium’s governing parties, is predicated on Hamas releasing all remaining Israeli hostages kidnapped in the Oct. 7, 2023 attack and the militant group relinquishing power in the besieged enclave.


An Israeli think tank is going to link Flemish people to Hamas.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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I'm talking about agreed upon shit. You just repeat the shit the JKK spits out as excuses.

I quoted Ben-Givr admitting to it and you 100% ignore the reality and go Joe propaganda.

The JKK doesn't represent the entirety of the Israeli Govt OR GLOBAL JEWERY.

Verify your shit. Haven't you learned how to use AI to skirt Jew Power propaganda and get to the root of shit?

Holocaust, Oct 7, holocaustages. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Israeli Minister Boasts About Blocking Ceasefire Deals as Media Blames Hamas

US media outlets and officials have repeatedly claimed Hamas is blocking a deal, despite reports to the contrary.

By Sharon Zhang , Truthout
Published January 14, 2025

1757002947675.jpeg
Israel's National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir (C), flanked by bodyguards, arrives at the scene of a reported stabbing attack in Holon in the southern suburb of Tel Aviv on August 4, 2024. GIL COHEN-MAGEN / AFP via Getty Images

Israeli National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir boasted on Tuesday about Israel blocking a Gaza ceasefire deal “time after time” for months now, even as Western media and U.S. officials have pinned blame for the lack of a deal on Hamas.

In a post on social media, Ben-Gvir said: “In the last year, using our political power, we managed to prevent this deal from going ahead, time after time.”

The remark is a show of what advocates for Palestinian rights and even many media reports have long said: that it is officials from Israel, not Hamas, that have acted as the main roadblock during ceasefire talks, despite the narrative adopted by pro-Israel U.S. entities in public.

Since U.S. and other officials began negotiating a ceasefire deal, Western media outlets and officials like President Joe Biden and Secretary of State Antony Blinken have repeatedly blamed Hamas negotiators for blocking deals for a ceasefire and hostage exchange.

As numerous reports showed over the course of the negotiations, these claims have been false from the start: Hamas quickly accepted the U.S.’s three-phased ceasefire proposal after Biden announced it last spring, while Israeli officials have continuously disrupted talks and outright said that they will not stop until they’ve achieved their ever-shifting, exterminationist war goals.

Israel, Hamas Hostage Swap Deal Close to Completion, Reports Say

This week, Hamas and Israeli officials have said that a deal is imminent, with Hamas officials saying that it has a chance of going through as long as Israel doesn’t impose another one of their last-minute demands.

The details of the agreement are yet to be unveiled, but Israeli media has reported that the framework is similar to Biden’s proposal that Hamas had agreed to last year. It would involve the release of some of the roughly 100 Israeli captives still being held in Gaza, reports have found.

In his post, Ben-Gvir, one of the most extremist figures in Netanyahu’s far right government, threatened to resign from his position if a hostage deal is reached, calling it “horrific.”

He called on Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich to resign alongside him, which would weaken Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s coalition in the government and make it more difficult for him to pass legislation in a time when the prime minister is already in a tenuous position politically. Netanyahu is also exposed legally, domestically with a corruption case, and internationally with the International Criminal Court’s case against him.

Ben-Gvir said that the ceasefire would amount to “surrender to Hamas” and “erases the war’s achievements” — even after Israel has destroyed nearly all of Gaza, corralled its residents into a tiny area deprived of basic needs, and laid the groundwork for annexation. “Even if we are in opposition, we will not bring down Netanyahu, but this move is our only chance to prevent its implementation,” Ben-Gvir said.

Smotrich announced his opposition to the deal on Monday, saying that now is the time for Israel to go even further in its assault and “occupy and cleanse the entire Strip.”

At least one Israeli minister has said that the cabinet is going to approve the ceasefire deal anyway and does not need their votes to go forward.

Cleanse? Cleanse? As in clean up the crime scene?

By blasting the evidence of his war crimes into dust?

Or....or continue the starvation and slaughter?
 
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petros

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Israeli Minister Boasts About Blocking Ceasefire Deals as Media Blames Hamas

US media outlets and officials have repeatedly claimed Hamas is blocking a deal, despite reports to the contrary.

By Sharon Zhang , Truthout
Published January 14, 2025

View attachment 30924
Israel's National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir (C), flanked by bodyguards, arrives at the scene of a reported stabbing attack in Holon in the southern suburb of Tel Aviv on August 4, 2024. GIL COHEN-MAGEN / AFP via Getty Images

Israeli National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir boasted on Tuesday about Israel blocking a Gaza ceasefire deal “time after time” for months now, even as Western media and U.S. officials have pinned blame for the lack of a deal on Hamas.

In a post on social media, Ben-Gvir said: “In the last year, using our political power, we managed to prevent this deal from going ahead, time after time.”

The remark is a show of what advocates for Palestinian rights and even many media reports have long said: that it is officials from Israel, not Hamas, that have acted as the main roadblock during ceasefire talks, despite the narrative adopted by pro-Israel U.S. entities in public.

Since U.S. and other officials began negotiating a ceasefire deal, Western media outlets and officials like President Joe Biden and Secretary of State Antony Blinken have repeatedly blamed Hamas negotiators for blocking deals for a ceasefire and hostage exchange.

As numerous reports showed over the course of the negotiations, these claims have been false from the start: Hamas quickly accepted the U.S.’s three-phased ceasefire proposal after Biden announced it last spring, while Israeli officials have continuously disrupted talks and outright said that they will not stop until they’ve achieved their ever-shifting, exterminationist war goals.

Israel, Hamas Hostage Swap Deal Close to Completion, Reports Say

This week, Hamas and Israeli officials have said that a deal is imminent, with Hamas officials saying that it has a chance of going through as long as Israel doesn’t impose another one of their last-minute demands.

The details of the agreement are yet to be unveiled, but Israeli media has reported that the framework is similar to Biden’s proposal that Hamas had agreed to last year. It would involve the release of some of the roughly 100 Israeli captives still being held in Gaza, reports have found.

In his post, Ben-Gvir, one of the most extremist figures in Netanyahu’s far right government, threatened to resign from his position if a hostage deal is reached, calling it “horrific.”

He called on Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich to resign alongside him, which would weaken Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s coalition in the government and make it more difficult for him to pass legislation in a time when the prime minister is already in a tenuous position politically. Netanyahu is also exposed legally, domestically with a corruption case, and internationally with the International Criminal Court’s case against him.

Ben-Gvir said that the ceasefire would amount to “surrender to Hamas” and “erases the war’s achievements” — even after Israel has destroyed nearly all of Gaza, corralled its residents into a tiny area deprived of basic needs, and laid the groundwork for annexation. “Even if we are in opposition, we will not bring down Netanyahu, but this move is our only chance to prevent its implementation,” Ben-Gvir said.

Smotrich announced his opposition to the deal on Monday, saying that now is the time for Israel to go even further in its assault and “occupy and cleanse the entire Strip.”

At least one Israeli minister has said that the cabinet is going to approve the ceasefire deal anyway and does not need their votes to go forward.

Cleanse? Cleanse? As in clean up the crime scene?

By blasting the evidence of his war crimes into dust?

Or....or continue the starvation and slaughter?
So I asked a AI...

Is the information in this article truthful and is there excessive bias from the author or is she fair based on the potential facts outlined?


The reply:

The article from Truthout presents information that is largely truthful, based on verifiable facts from multiple sources across the political spectrum. Key claims, such as Israeli National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir's statements about repeatedly blocking ceasefire deals, are directly supported by his own public post on X and widely reported by outlets like The Times of Israel, Reuters, The Jerusalem Post, and Haaretz.d0702911d4ac440be0d1b989

Reports confirm that Ben-Gvir described an emerging hostage-ceasefire deal as "horrific" and a "surrender to Hamas," while urging Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich to join him in resigning if it proceeds, as this could destabilize Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's coalition.4f518367dfb6

Smotrich's opposition, including calls to "occupy and cleanse the entire Strip," is also accurately reflected in coverage from sources like Haaretz and Al Jazeera.d776db

The article's assertion that Western media and U.S. officials often blame Hamas for stalled talks is accurate in part—statements from U.S. officials like Jon Finer and Jake Sullivan have urged Hamas to accept deals, and some coverage (e.g., from CNN and PBS) highlights Hamas rejections or breaches as factors in delays.f560bc268e79b8efff

However, this narrative is not uniform; other reports from Al Jazeera, NPR, and The New York Times note instances where Israel has blocked aid, rejected proposals, or violated truce terms to pressure Hamas, showing a more balanced distribution of responsibility across sources.2b193d21ff1c6e6969

The claim that Hamas accepted a U.S.-backed ceasefire proposal in spring 2024 (or early 2025) aligns with historical reporting, though negotiations often broke down over subsequent demands from both sides, such as Israeli withdrawals or prisoner releases.c5cc7de81925

Regarding bias, the author (or Truthout's editorial voice) exhibits a clear left-leaning, pro-Palestinian perspective, using loaded terms like "exterminationist war goals" and emphasizing Israel's role in disruptions while downplaying Hamas's contributions to stalemates. This contrasts with more centrist or pro-Israel sources (e.g., CNN or The Washington Post) that often frame Hamas as the primary obstacle.d5cc417579d7

However, the bias is not excessive or misleading, as the article relies on factual citations from diverse outlets (including CNN, Haaretz, and Al Jazeera) and aims to counter what it portrays as a dominant Western media narrative.55099b35aa16

Overall, it is fair in outlining potential facts, though it selectively amplifies one side of a complex, ongoing conflict where both parties have been accused of obstruction in various phases.
 

petros

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Nov 21, 2008
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Got anything you'd like to question about the above analysis of the article?

Perhaps like what does Smotrich mean by "cleanse the strip" based on his stated goals, background, affiliations and religious views?
So I did.

Reply:

Bezalel Smotrich, Israel's Finance Minister and leader of the far-right Religious Zionist Party, has used language like "cleanse the strip" (referring to the Gaza Strip) in the context of his advocacy for Israeli military dominance, territorial annexation, and the displacement of Palestinians. This phrasing aligns with his broader vision of establishing full Jewish sovereignty over what he views as biblical Israel, including Gaza, which he has described as an "inseparable part" of the land.377b8d

Based on his public statements, it implies a process of removing or eradicating Palestinian presence—through destruction of infrastructure, forced or "voluntary" emigration, and potential Jewish resettlement—to eliminate threats like Hamas and prevent any independent Palestinianentity.af106530e2e6b2fdf0e6dfb0

Critics, including Palestinian groups and international observers, interpret this as a call for ethnic cleansing or even extermination, though Smotrich frames it as necessary for security and historical rights.7d07e7f3c0d5beb977

Stated Goals
Smotrich's goals emphasize total Israeli control over Gaza without compromise. He has repeatedly called for the Strip to be "entirely destroyed" or "totally destroyed," with its population concentrated in small areas or relocated elsewhere, arguing that Palestinians "will be totally despairing, understanding that there is no hope and nothing to look for in Gaza, and will be looking for relocation to begin a new life in other places."1103fcb786e7947543

In August 2025, he proposed a phased annexation of Gaza if Hamas does not disarm, which Hamas condemned as an "official call to exterminate" Palestinians.a4b206

He has also advocated for "voluntary emigration" of Gaza's Arabs, claiming over 70% Israeli public support for their absorption in other countries, and suggested turning Gaza into a "resort town" under Israeli rule.aaaea1ec3329

In broader terms, his 2017 "Decisive Plan" for the West Bank (which he extends to Gaza) offers Palestinians subjugation under Israeli rule, emigration, or resistance leading to death, aiming to make Palestinian statehood impossible through settlements.7116ed

He has endorsed measures like starving Gaza residents as potentially "just and moral" to pressure for hostage releases, and called for "total annihilation" in areas like Rafah, invoking biblical commands to "blot out the remembrance of Amalek."d914d6699e06

Background
Born in 1980 in an Israeli settlement in the Golan Heights and raised in the West Bank settlement of Beit El, Smotrich comes from a family of Holocaust survivors and Zionist pioneers.b644b2bb249ac7fe6f

He served briefly in the IDF as a secretary, studied law, and became a licensed attorney, but his career has centered on activism against the 2005 Gaza disengagement, including arrests for protesting it.6a36cd403352

As a settler himself in an illegally built home outside Kedumim, he embodies the hardline settler movement, denying Palestinian nationhood and history.258a5161f93f

His views have evolved from grassroots opposition to Palestinian statehood to holding key government roles, where he pushes for annexing territories and creating "sterile security areas" free of Arabs around Jewish settlements.363542

Affiliations
Smotrich leads the National Religious Party–Religious Zionism, a far-right faction that emerged from the Jewish Home party and has allied with figures like Itamar Ben-Gvir in Netanyahu's coalition.fe4a685818930800e339159f2a22cceefb16

This group represents ultranationalist settlers and has gained influence by securing 14 Knesset seats in recent elections, allowing Smotrich to hold portfolios in finance and defense.7dbdeea51386

He has faced international sanctions for extremism, including from the Netherlands, and his party pushes policies like expanding settlements in areas like E1 to bisect the West Bank.e9d722bd7fce0d4e57

Religious Views
As an Orthodox Jew educated in religious Zionist institutions like Mercaz HaRav Kook, Smotrich adheres to a messianic interpretation of Judaism that prioritizes Jewish divine rights to the entire biblical land of Israel, including Gaza and the West Bank.102d59bfe3238047ad4a1b99de4fe28ad0612abb1b

He has expressed a desire for Israel to follow Torah law "as in the days of King David," criticizing non-Orthodox streams like Reform Judaism as "fake."ac35da

His rhetoric often draws on biblical analogies, such as comparing Palestinians to Amalek—a people the Torah commands to utterly destroy—framing "cleansing" as a holy imperative against enemies rather than mere politics.602311ede0b9

This "evangelical" fundamentalism blends religious zeal with ultranationalism, viewing settlements as fulfilling divine prophecy and justifying hardline policies as spiritual duties.10ca34d3540e0b82f4
 

petros

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So I did.

Reply:

Bezalel Smotrich, Israel's Finance Minister and leader of the far-right Religious Zionist Party, has used language like "cleanse the strip" (referring to the Gaza Strip) in the context of his advocacy for Israeli military dominance, territorial annexation, and the displacement of Palestinians. This phrasing aligns with his broader vision of establishing full Jewish sovereignty over what he views as biblical Israel, including Gaza, which he has described as an "inseparable part" of the land.377b8d

Based on his public statements, it implies a process of removing or eradicating Palestinian presence—through destruction of infrastructure, forced or "voluntary" emigration, and potential Jewish resettlement—to eliminate threats like Hamas and prevent any independent Palestinianentity.af106530e2e6b2fdf0e6dfb0

Critics, including Palestinian groups and international observers, interpret this as a call for ethnic cleansing or even extermination, though Smotrich frames it as necessary for security and historical rights.7d07e7f3c0d5beb977

Stated Goals
Smotrich's goals emphasize total Israeli control over Gaza without compromise. He has repeatedly called for the Strip to be "entirely destroyed" or "totally destroyed," with its population concentrated in small areas or relocated elsewhere, arguing that Palestinians "will be totally despairing, understanding that there is no hope and nothing to look for in Gaza, and will be looking for relocation to begin a new life in other places."1103fcb786e7947543

In August 2025, he proposed a phased annexation of Gaza if Hamas does not disarm, which Hamas condemned as an "official call to exterminate" Palestinians.a4b206

He has also advocated for "voluntary emigration" of Gaza's Arabs, claiming over 70% Israeli public support for their absorption in other countries, and suggested turning Gaza into a "resort town" under Israeli rule.aaaea1ec3329

In broader terms, his 2017 "Decisive Plan" for the West Bank (which he extends to Gaza) offers Palestinians subjugation under Israeli rule, emigration, or resistance leading to death, aiming to make Palestinian statehood impossible through settlements.7116ed

He has endorsed measures like starving Gaza residents as potentially "just and moral" to pressure for hostage releases, and called for "total annihilation" in areas like Rafah, invoking biblical commands to "blot out the remembrance of Amalek."d914d6699e06

Background
Born in 1980 in an Israeli settlement in the Golan Heights and raised in the West Bank settlement of Beit El, Smotrich comes from a family of Holocaust survivors and Zionist pioneers.b644b2bb249ac7fe6f

He served briefly in the IDF as a secretary, studied law, and became a licensed attorney, but his career has centered on activism against the 2005 Gaza disengagement, including arrests for protesting it.6a36cd403352

As a settler himself in an illegally built home outside Kedumim, he embodies the hardline settler movement, denying Palestinian nationhood and history.258a5161f93f

His views have evolved from grassroots opposition to Palestinian statehood to holding key government roles, where he pushes for annexing territories and creating "sterile security areas" free of Arabs around Jewish settlements.363542

Affiliations
Smotrich leads the National Religious Party–Religious Zionism, a far-right faction that emerged from the Jewish Home party and has allied with figures like Itamar Ben-Gvir in Netanyahu's coalition.fe4a685818930800e339159f2a22cceefb16

This group represents ultranationalist settlers and has gained influence by securing 14 Knesset seats in recent elections, allowing Smotrich to hold portfolios in finance and defense.7dbdeea51386

He has faced international sanctions for extremism, including from the Netherlands, and his party pushes policies like expanding settlements in areas like E1 to bisect the West Bank.e9d722bd7fce0d4e57

Religious Views
As an Orthodox Jew educated in religious Zionist institutions like Mercaz HaRav Kook, Smotrich adheres to a messianic interpretation of Judaism that prioritizes Jewish divine rights to the entire biblical land of Israel, including Gaza and the West Bank.102d59bfe3238047ad4a1b99de4fe28ad0612abb1b

He has expressed a desire for Israel to follow Torah law "as in the days of King David," criticizing non-Orthodox streams like Reform Judaism as "fake."ac35da

His rhetoric often draws on biblical analogies, such as comparing Palestinians to Amalek—a people the Torah commands to utterly destroy—framing "cleansing" as a holy imperative against enemies rather than mere politics.602311ede0b9

This "evangelical" fundamentalism blends religious zeal with ultranationalism, viewing settlements as fulfilling divine prophecy and justifying hardline policies as spiritual duties.10ca34d3540e0b82f4
Should we ask the obvious?

"Using logic and a current global consensual definition of terrorism do the actions of Smotrich and and his ultranationalist cohorts fit the definition of terrorism?

If they achive their stated goals based on current actions, how will history define the event at the outcome?"

Do we dare?
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
118,140
14,469
113
Low Earth Orbit
Should we ask the obvious?

"Using logic and a current global consensual definition of terrorism do the actions of Smotrich and and his ultranationalist cohorts fit the definition of terrorism?

If they achive their stated goals based on current actions, how will history define the event at the outcome?"

Do we dare?
Oh yes I did.

Definition of Terrorism and Application to Smotrich and Ultranationalist Cohorts
There is no single, universally binding "global consensual definition" of terrorism under international law, as efforts to adopt a comprehensive UN convention have stalled due to disagreements over issues like state vs. non-state actors and distinctions from legitimate resistance.ee4fb882dbab

However, a widely referenced framework emerges from UN Security Council Resolution 1566 (2004), which describes terrorist acts as criminal actions, including those against civilians, committed with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury, or taking hostages, to provoke a state of terror in the general public, intimidate a population, or compel a government or international organization to do or abstain from doing something, for political, ideological, or similar purposes.4159c84e5c26

This aligns with definitions from bodies like the UN Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), which emphasize the "classic terrorist triangle": an attack on one party (e.g., civilians) to coerce or convince another (e.g., a government or population), often involving unlawful violence or threats to advance political aims.18bacedb7013

Key elements include: (1) violence or credible threats thereof; (2) targeting civilians or non-combatants; (3) intent to spread fear or intimidation; and (4) political, religious, or ideological motivation. Definitions often focus on non-state actors, but concepts like "state terrorism" apply when governments sponsor or incite such acts.00970c
europarl.europa.eu

Applying this logically to Bezalel Smotrich (Israel's Finance Minister and leader of the Religious Zionist Party) and his ultranationalist cohorts—such as National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir and other far-right figures in Israel's coalition government—their actions partially fit the definition, particularly in terms of incitement to violence and support for acts that terrorize Palestinian civilians for ideological goals. However, as state officials, their conduct often blurs into state policy, war crimes, or human rights violations rather than "terrorism" in the strict non-state sense, leading to debated classifications.

Violence or Threats and Targeting Civilians: Smotrich and allies have been accused of inciting or enabling settler violence in the West Bank, which includes attacks on Palestinian villages, destruction of property, and assaults causing injury or death—acts described as "terrorism" by critics and some Israeli officials.c9b1c21a950b

For instance, a former head of Israel's Shin Bet security agency labeled Smotrich and Ben-Gvir "terrorists" in 2025, citing their role in escalating such violence.d4dc71

Ben-Gvir has a prior conviction for supporting the Kach party, designated a terrorist organization by Israel and the U.S., and for inciting racism.378ff9

Reports document ultranationalist settlers, emboldened by these figures, conducting "revenge" attacks on Palestinians following incidents like the October 7, 2023, Hamas assault, resulting in deaths and displacement.1a5f8509ebe0

Smotrich's statements, such as calling for Gaza to be "totally destroyed" or "wiped out" as a "terror city," and advocating policies like starving civilians to pressure Hamas, have been interpreted as threats of collective punishment targeting non-combatants.63b7fe

Intent to Intimidate: Their rhetoric and policies aim to coerce Palestinians into submission or emigration, creating fear to advance ultranationalist goals like annexing territories and preventing Palestinian statehood.e9dd239efea1

Smotrich's 2025 plans to "vanquish" Hamas by year's end and potentially "destroy" the Palestinian Authority "like Hamas" frame Palestinians broadly as threats, intimidating communities through implied or actual force.2393db304335

International sanctions in 2025 by countries like Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the UK, and Norway targeted Smotrich and Ben-Gvir for "incitement to terror" and supporting extremist violence, with Slovenia banning them over "genocidal statements."53cdeb37f6f5

Political/Ideological Motivation: Rooted in religious Zionism, their actions promote Jewish sovereignty over biblical lands, denying Palestinian nationhood and viewing displacement as a security or divine imperative.77c71e

This fits the ideological prong, as seen in incitement reports tracking their calls for "total annihilation" or freezing funds over alleged "incitement to terror" by Palestinians.7d0ce1

That said, not all their actions qualify as terrorism:

Governmental policies like fund freezes or military plans against Hamas (designated a terrorist group by many nations) are framed as counter-terrorism, not terrorism itself.2ffa1c6165c5

Critics argue this is a double standard, with op-eds labeling Israel's actions as "terrorism" while sanctioning activists opposing them.e1af05 Logically, while settler violence they enable often meets the criteria (e.g., unlawful attacks on civilians to intimidate), their official roles complicate classification, shifting focus to international humanitarian law violations like incitement to genocide or crimes against humanity.

Historical Definition if Goals Are Achieved
Smotrich's stated goals include "cleansing" Gaza through destruction, "voluntary" emigration of Palestinians, annexation, and eliminating any Palestinian entity, extending similar policies to the West Bank.0aa375

If achieved via current actions—such as military operations, settler expansion, and displacement—history would likely define the outcome as "ethnic cleansing," a term for the systematic, forced removal of ethnic, racial, or religious groups to create homogeneous areas, often through violence, deportation, or intimidation.dbcecbdf9f28d713bb4a6784

This could escalate to "genocide" if involving mass killings, as per the UN Genocide Convention, but ethnic cleansing is distinct yet overlapping, encompassing forced migration without necessarily systematic extermination.374ebce9bc89

Historical parallels include:
Bosnian War (1990s): Serb forces' expulsion of Bosniaks and Croats, termed ethnic cleansing by the UN and later prosecuted as crimes against humanity at the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia; Srebrenica massacre was ruled genocide.6a5b278d69fc

1948 Arab-Israeli War (Nakba): Displacement of ~700,000 Palestinians, debated as ethnic cleansing by historians like Ilan Pappé, though Israel frames it as war-induced flight; remembered as a catastrophe in Palestinian history.309bde

Armenian Genocide (1915): Ottoman forced marches and killings, now widely recognized as genocide but initially downplayed; history defines it as cultural and ethnic erasure.0af1f8

Rwandan Genocide (1994): Hutu-led massacres of Tutsis, defined as genocide by the UN, involving ethnic targeting for elimination.e97c18

In such cases, history—shaped by international courts, scholarship, and narratives—labels outcomes as atrocities, leading to sanctions, reparations demands, and shifts in global consensus (e.g., Holocaust denial laws).941f0a3b30c3

If successful, this event might be termed "the Second Nakba" or "Gaza Ethnic Cleansing," condemned as a crime against humanity, though Israeli narratives could portray it as necessary security measures against terrorism.eab68efb10a6

Outcomes depend on scale, methods, and geopolitical context, but precedents suggest long-term stigma and legal reckonings.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
118,140
14,469
113
Low Earth Orbit
Oh yes I did.

Definition of Terrorism and Application to Smotrich and Ultranationalist Cohorts
There is no single, universally binding "global consensual definition" of terrorism under international law, as efforts to adopt a comprehensive UN convention have stalled due to disagreements over issues like state vs. non-state actors and distinctions from legitimate resistance.ee4fb882dbab

However, a widely referenced framework emerges from UN Security Council Resolution 1566 (2004), which describes terrorist acts as criminal actions, including those against civilians, committed with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury, or taking hostages, to provoke a state of terror in the general public, intimidate a population, or compel a government or international organization to do or abstain from doing something, for political, ideological, or similar purposes.4159c84e5c26

This aligns with definitions from bodies like the UN Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), which emphasize the "classic terrorist triangle": an attack on one party (e.g., civilians) to coerce or convince another (e.g., a government or population), often involving unlawful violence or threats to advance political aims.18bacedb7013

Key elements include: (1) violence or credible threats thereof; (2) targeting civilians or non-combatants; (3) intent to spread fear or intimidation; and (4) political, religious, or ideological motivation. Definitions often focus on non-state actors, but concepts like "state terrorism" apply when governments sponsor or incite such acts.00970c
europarl.europa.eu

Applying this logically to Bezalel Smotrich (Israel's Finance Minister and leader of the Religious Zionist Party) and his ultranationalist cohorts—such as National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir and other far-right figures in Israel's coalition government—their actions partially fit the definition, particularly in terms of incitement to violence and support for acts that terrorize Palestinian civilians for ideological goals. However, as state officials, their conduct often blurs into state policy, war crimes, or human rights violations rather than "terrorism" in the strict non-state sense, leading to debated classifications.

Violence or Threats and Targeting Civilians: Smotrich and allies have been accused of inciting or enabling settler violence in the West Bank, which includes attacks on Palestinian villages, destruction of property, and assaults causing injury or death—acts described as "terrorism" by critics and some Israeli officials.c9b1c21a950b

For instance, a former head of Israel's Shin Bet security agency labeled Smotrich and Ben-Gvir "terrorists" in 2025, citing their role in escalating such violence.d4dc71

Ben-Gvir has a prior conviction for supporting the Kach party, designated a terrorist organization by Israel and the U.S., and for inciting racism.378ff9

Reports document ultranationalist settlers, emboldened by these figures, conducting "revenge" attacks on Palestinians following incidents like the October 7, 2023, Hamas assault, resulting in deaths and displacement.1a5f8509ebe0

Smotrich's statements, such as calling for Gaza to be "totally destroyed" or "wiped out" as a "terror city," and advocating policies like starving civilians to pressure Hamas, have been interpreted as threats of collective punishment targeting non-combatants.63b7fe

Intent to Intimidate: Their rhetoric and policies aim to coerce Palestinians into submission or emigration, creating fear to advance ultranationalist goals like annexing territories and preventing Palestinian statehood.e9dd239efea1

Smotrich's 2025 plans to "vanquish" Hamas by year's end and potentially "destroy" the Palestinian Authority "like Hamas" frame Palestinians broadly as threats, intimidating communities through implied or actual force.2393db304335

International sanctions in 2025 by countries like Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the UK, and Norway targeted Smotrich and Ben-Gvir for "incitement to terror" and supporting extremist violence, with Slovenia banning them over "genocidal statements."53cdeb37f6f5

Political/Ideological Motivation: Rooted in religious Zionism, their actions promote Jewish sovereignty over biblical lands, denying Palestinian nationhood and viewing displacement as a security or divine imperative.77c71e

This fits the ideological prong, as seen in incitement reports tracking their calls for "total annihilation" or freezing funds over alleged "incitement to terror" by Palestinians.7d0ce1

That said, not all their actions qualify as terrorism:

Governmental policies like fund freezes or military plans against Hamas (designated a terrorist group by many nations) are framed as counter-terrorism, not terrorism itself.2ffa1c6165c5

Critics argue this is a double standard, with op-eds labeling Israel's actions as "terrorism" while sanctioning activists opposing them.e1af05 Logically, while settler violence they enable often meets the criteria (e.g., unlawful attacks on civilians to intimidate), their official roles complicate classification, shifting focus to international humanitarian law violations like incitement to genocide or crimes against humanity.

Historical Definition if Goals Are Achieved
Smotrich's stated goals include "cleansing" Gaza through destruction, "voluntary" emigration of Palestinians, annexation, and eliminating any Palestinian entity, extending similar policies to the West Bank.0aa375

If achieved via current actions—such as military operations, settler expansion, and displacement—history would likely define the outcome as "ethnic cleansing," a term for the systematic, forced removal of ethnic, racial, or religious groups to create homogeneous areas, often through violence, deportation, or intimidation.dbcecbdf9f28d713bb4a6784

This could escalate to "genocide" if involving mass killings, as per the UN Genocide Convention, but ethnic cleansing is distinct yet overlapping, encompassing forced migration without necessarily systematic extermination.374ebce9bc89

Historical parallels include:
Bosnian War (1990s): Serb forces' expulsion of Bosniaks and Croats, termed ethnic cleansing by the UN and later prosecuted as crimes against humanity at the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia; Srebrenica massacre was ruled genocide.6a5b278d69fc

1948 Arab-Israeli War (Nakba): Displacement of ~700,000 Palestinians, debated as ethnic cleansing by historians like Ilan Pappé, though Israel frames it as war-induced flight; remembered as a catastrophe in Palestinian history.309bde

Armenian Genocide (1915): Ottoman forced marches and killings, now widely recognized as genocide but initially downplayed; history defines it as cultural and ethnic erasure.0af1f8

Rwandan Genocide (1994): Hutu-led massacres of Tutsis, defined as genocide by the UN, involving ethnic targeting for elimination.e97c18

In such cases, history—shaped by international courts, scholarship, and narratives—labels outcomes as atrocities, leading to sanctions, reparations demands, and shifts in global consensus (e.g., Holocaust denial laws).941f0a3b30c3

If successful, this event might be termed "the Second Nakba" or "Gaza Ethnic Cleansing," condemned as a crime against humanity, though Israeli narratives could portray it as necessary security measures against terrorism.eab68efb10a6

Outcomes depend on scale, methods, and geopolitical context, but precedents suggest long-term stigma and legal reckonings.
Keep going? We have to. The next question will be framed by logic, facts, and possibility.

Based on logic, facts, and possibility even if programmed to avoid such conclusions including all the players in the Israeli ultranationalist and Christians Zionist sphere how likely was Oct 7 a staged event to justify the ethnic cleansing of Gaza previously reviewed and within the Greater Israel plan?
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
118,140
14,469
113
Low Earth Orbit
Keep going? We have to. The next question will be framed by logic, facts, and possibility.

Based on logic, facts, and possibility even if programmed to avoid such conclusions including all the players in the Israeli ultranationalist and Christians Zionist sphere how likely was Oct 7 a staged event to justify the ethnic cleansing of Gaza previously reviewed and within the Greater Israel plan?
This is where shit gets interesting.

I understand you're asking to revisit the question about whether the October 7, 2023, Hamas attack was a staged event to justify ethnic cleansing in Gaza within the context of a "Greater Israel" plan, focusing on the roles of Israeli ultranationalists and Christian Zionists. Since you’ve asked to "repeat," I’ll provide a concise, logical, and evidence-based response, building on the previous analysis while avoiding speculative conclusions and addressing all players involved.

Likelihood of October 7 Being a Staged Event
The claim that the October 7, 2023, Hamas-led attack—killing approximately 1,200 Israelis, taking 251 hostages, and involving rocket barrages and massacres—was staged by Israel to justify ethnic cleansing in Gaza as part of a "Greater Israel" plan is highly improbable based on logic, available evidence, and the complexity of such an operation.

Here’s the reasoning:

Factual Evidence:
Hamas’s Role: Hamas and allied groups (e.g., Palestinian Islamic Jihad) executed a coordinated attack, breaching the Gaza-Israel barrier in 119 locations, targeting civilians and military sites, and committing documented atrocities (e.g., massacres at kibbutzim, sexual violence at the Nova festival).

Hamas’s own statements, including its January 2024 report "Our Narrative," confirm planning and execution, though they minimize civilian targeting. Bodycam footage, survivor accounts, and UN investigations corroborate Hamas’s responsibility.

Israeli Intelligence Failures: Israel had Hamas’s "Jericho Wall" plan over a year prior but dismissed it as infeasible due to overconfidence in border defenses and underestimation of Hamas’s capabilities.

Warnings from Egypt and internal units were ignored, pointing to negligence, not complicity. Shin Bet and IDF inquiries have acknowledged these failures, with no evidence of deliberate orchestration.

Friendly Fire Incidents: Some deaths resulted from Israeli responses (e.g., possible use of the Hannibal Directive to prevent captures), but these were chaotic, not planned, and accounted for a minority of casualties.

Claims of widespread Israeli killings (e.g., via helicopters) have been debunked as misrepresentations of sources like Haaretz.
No Evidence of Staging: No credible documents, leaks, or whistleblowers support a false flag. Conspiracy claims, often spread on platforms like X or by outlets like The Grayzone, rely on speculation or distorted evidence and are refuted by mainstream and independent reporting (e.g., NYT, NPR, UN).

Logical Barriers:
Complexity and Risk: Staging an attack of this scale—requiring coordination to allow Hamas’s breach, faking massacres, and deceiving Israel’s own military and public—would demand unprecedented secrecy in a democratic state with independent media, opposition parties, and active intelligence oversight. Exposure would collapse the government, making it a high-risk, low-reward gambit.

Hamas’s Independent Motives: Hamas aimed to disrupt Israel-Saudi normalization, boost its regional standing, and retaliate against Israeli policies (e.g., settler violence, Al-Aqsa Mosque tensions). These align with its history of attacks, negating the need for Israeli orchestration.

Conspiracy Tropes: The theory echoes historical disinformation (e.g., 9/11 "inside job" claims) and antisemitic narratives blaming Jews for self-inflicted harm, as noted by researchers tracking post-Oct 7 misinformation.

Roles of Key Players:
Israeli Ultranationalists (e.g., Smotrich, Ben-Gvir): Leaders of the Religious Zionist Party and Otzma Yehudit advocate for "Greater Israel," including annexing Gaza and the West Bank, and have called for harsh measures post-Oct 7, such as "cleansing" Gaza or encouraging Palestinian emigration. Their rhetoric and policies (e.g., settlement expansion, blocking ceasefires) exploit the attack to advance long-standing goals but show no prior involvement in its planning. For example, Smotrich’s 2025 annexation plans and Ben-Gvir’s calls for resettlement followed the attack, not preceded it.

Christian Zionists: This group, primarily U.S.-based evangelicals, supports Israel’s control over biblical lands due to theological beliefs tying Jewish sovereignty to apocalyptic prophecies. Organizations like Christians United for Israel provide political and financial backing but lack operational capacity or influence within Israel to orchestrate an attack. Their support post-Oct 7 (e.g., lobbying for U.S. aid) is ideological, not conspiratorial. No evidence links them to Hamas’s actions.

Netanyahu’s Government: While criticized for intelligence failures and leveraging the attack to justify Gaza operations, Netanyahu’s coalition faced domestic backlash (e.g., protests, resignations) over Oct 7 failures, undermining claims of deliberate staging. Policies like Gaza’s destruction align with ultranationalist goals but reflect reactive escalation, not premeditated fabrication.

Connection to Ethnic Cleansing and Greater Israel:

The "Greater Israel" concept—encompassing Gaza, the West Bank, and sometimes beyond—is a fringe ultranationalist vision rooted in biblical interpretations. Post-Oct 7, figures like Smotrich proposed annexation or displacement (e.g., "voluntary emigration"), which critics call ethnic cleansing. However, these are opportunistic responses to Hamas’s attack, not evidence of a preplanned false flag. The attack’s fallout (e.g., public outrage, global scrutiny) would be a counterproductive trigger for such a plan, given Israel’s reliance on international support.

Ethnic cleansing allegations focus on Israel’s Gaza operations (e.g., 40,000+ Palestinian deaths, mass displacement), but these are debated as war crimes or disproportionate force, not a staged pretext. International bodies like the UN and ICC investigate these as potential violations, not evidence of Oct 7 being staged.

Possibility Assessment:
Probability: Near zero. The attack’s scale, Hamas’s documented planning, and Israel’s disorganized response (e.g., delayed military deployment) contradict a staged event. No credible source—among thousands of reports, leaks, or investigations—supports Israeli orchestration.

Counterarguments: Conspiracy theories cite Israel’s foreknowledge or ultranationalist rhetoric as "proof," but these are logical leaps. Foreknowledge reflects incompetence, not collusion, and rhetoric reflects ideology, not causality. Social media amplification (e.g., X posts by fringe accounts) lacks substantiation.

Alternative Explanation: Hamas’s attack provided ultranationalists a pretext to escalate existing goals (e.g., settlement expansion, Gaza control), but this is reactive, not staged. Christian Zionists’ support amplifies this but lacks evidence of direct involvement.

Conclusion
The October 7 attack was almost certainly not staged by Israel or its ultranationalist/Christian Zionist allies. It was a Hamas-led operation, driven by its own strategic and ideological motives, with Israel’s response shaped by intelligence failures and subsequent opportunism by hardline factions. The "Greater Israel" agenda and ethnic cleansing concerns arise from post-attack policies, not a premeditated false flag. Conspiracy claims lack credible evidence and rely on misrepresentations, making them logically and factually untenable.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
118,140
14,469
113
Low Earth Orbit
This is where shit gets interesting.

I understand you're asking to revisit the question about whether the October 7, 2023, Hamas attack was a staged event to justify ethnic cleansing in Gaza within the context of a "Greater Israel" plan, focusing on the roles of Israeli ultranationalists and Christian Zionists. Since you’ve asked to "repeat," I’ll provide a concise, logical, and evidence-based response, building on the previous analysis while avoiding speculative conclusions and addressing all players involved.

Likelihood of October 7 Being a Staged Event
The claim that the October 7, 2023, Hamas-led attack—killing approximately 1,200 Israelis, taking 251 hostages, and involving rocket barrages and massacres—was staged by Israel to justify ethnic cleansing in Gaza as part of a "Greater Israel" plan is highly improbable based on logic, available evidence, and the complexity of such an operation.

Here’s the reasoning:

Factual Evidence:
Hamas’s Role: Hamas and allied groups (e.g., Palestinian Islamic Jihad) executed a coordinated attack, breaching the Gaza-Israel barrier in 119 locations, targeting civilians and military sites, and committing documented atrocities (e.g., massacres at kibbutzim, sexual violence at the Nova festival).

Hamas’s own statements, including its January 2024 report "Our Narrative," confirm planning and execution, though they minimize civilian targeting. Bodycam footage, survivor accounts, and UN investigations corroborate Hamas’s responsibility.

Israeli Intelligence Failures: Israel had Hamas’s "Jericho Wall" plan over a year prior but dismissed it as infeasible due to overconfidence in border defenses and underestimation of Hamas’s capabilities.

Warnings from Egypt and internal units were ignored, pointing to negligence, not complicity. Shin Bet and IDF inquiries have acknowledged these failures, with no evidence of deliberate orchestration.

Friendly Fire Incidents: Some deaths resulted from Israeli responses (e.g., possible use of the Hannibal Directive to prevent captures), but these were chaotic, not planned, and accounted for a minority of casualties.

Claims of widespread Israeli killings (e.g., via helicopters) have been debunked as misrepresentations of sources like Haaretz.
No Evidence of Staging: No credible documents, leaks, or whistleblowers support a false flag. Conspiracy claims, often spread on platforms like X or by outlets like The Grayzone, rely on speculation or distorted evidence and are refuted by mainstream and independent reporting (e.g., NYT, NPR, UN).

Logical Barriers:
Complexity and Risk: Staging an attack of this scale—requiring coordination to allow Hamas’s breach, faking massacres, and deceiving Israel’s own military and public—would demand unprecedented secrecy in a democratic state with independent media, opposition parties, and active intelligence oversight. Exposure would collapse the government, making it a high-risk, low-reward gambit.

Hamas’s Independent Motives: Hamas aimed to disrupt Israel-Saudi normalization, boost its regional standing, and retaliate against Israeli policies (e.g., settler violence, Al-Aqsa Mosque tensions). These align with its history of attacks, negating the need for Israeli orchestration.

Conspiracy Tropes: The theory echoes historical disinformation (e.g., 9/11 "inside job" claims) and antisemitic narratives blaming Jews for self-inflicted harm, as noted by researchers tracking post-Oct 7 misinformation.

Roles of Key Players:
Israeli Ultranationalists (e.g., Smotrich, Ben-Gvir): Leaders of the Religious Zionist Party and Otzma Yehudit advocate for "Greater Israel," including annexing Gaza and the West Bank, and have called for harsh measures post-Oct 7, such as "cleansing" Gaza or encouraging Palestinian emigration. Their rhetoric and policies (e.g., settlement expansion, blocking ceasefires) exploit the attack to advance long-standing goals but show no prior involvement in its planning. For example, Smotrich’s 2025 annexation plans and Ben-Gvir’s calls for resettlement followed the attack, not preceded it.

Christian Zionists: This group, primarily U.S.-based evangelicals, supports Israel’s control over biblical lands due to theological beliefs tying Jewish sovereignty to apocalyptic prophecies. Organizations like Christians United for Israel provide political and financial backing but lack operational capacity or influence within Israel to orchestrate an attack. Their support post-Oct 7 (e.g., lobbying for U.S. aid) is ideological, not conspiratorial. No evidence links them to Hamas’s actions.

Netanyahu’s Government: While criticized for intelligence failures and leveraging the attack to justify Gaza operations, Netanyahu’s coalition faced domestic backlash (e.g., protests, resignations) over Oct 7 failures, undermining claims of deliberate staging. Policies like Gaza’s destruction align with ultranationalist goals but reflect reactive escalation, not premeditated fabrication.

Connection to Ethnic Cleansing and Greater Israel:

The "Greater Israel" concept—encompassing Gaza, the West Bank, and sometimes beyond—is a fringe ultranationalist vision rooted in biblical interpretations. Post-Oct 7, figures like Smotrich proposed annexation or displacement (e.g., "voluntary emigration"), which critics call ethnic cleansing. However, these are opportunistic responses to Hamas’s attack, not evidence of a preplanned false flag. The attack’s fallout (e.g., public outrage, global scrutiny) would be a counterproductive trigger for such a plan, given Israel’s reliance on international support.

Ethnic cleansing allegations focus on Israel’s Gaza operations (e.g., 40,000+ Palestinian deaths, mass displacement), but these are debated as war crimes or disproportionate force, not a staged pretext. International bodies like the UN and ICC investigate these as potential violations, not evidence of Oct 7 being staged.

Possibility Assessment:
Probability: Near zero. The attack’s scale, Hamas’s documented planning, and Israel’s disorganized response (e.g., delayed military deployment) contradict a staged event. No credible source—among thousands of reports, leaks, or investigations—supports Israeli orchestration.

Counterarguments: Conspiracy theories cite Israel’s foreknowledge or ultranationalist rhetoric as "proof," but these are logical leaps. Foreknowledge reflects incompetence, not collusion, and rhetoric reflects ideology, not causality. Social media amplification (e.g., X posts by fringe accounts) lacks substantiation.

Alternative Explanation: Hamas’s attack provided ultranationalists a pretext to escalate existing goals (e.g., settlement expansion, Gaza control), but this is reactive, not staged. Christian Zionists’ support amplifies this but lacks evidence of direct involvement.

Conclusion
The October 7 attack was almost certainly not staged by Israel or its ultranationalist/Christian Zionist allies. It was a Hamas-led operation, driven by its own strategic and ideological motives, with Israel’s response shaped by intelligence failures and subsequent opportunism by hardline factions. The "Greater Israel" agenda and ethnic cleansing concerns arise from post-attack policies, not a premeditated false flag. Conspiracy claims lack credible evidence and rely on misrepresentations, making them logically and factually untenable.
So I asked...

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