Hamas attacks Israel

[petros]

But it's all about Hamas and Gaza.

David Lammy condemns ‘abhorrent’ Israel settler attack on West Bank village

Foreign secretary says settlers must be ‘brought to justice’ after violence in Palestinian village leaves one dead

www.theguardian.com

This is why there won't be peace.

Though Boom likely got his teenyweenie as hard as it can get over this I'm sure.

Zionism is terrorism. Its in their fucking doctrine.

 

[B00Mer]

Nutters are still out protesting

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1824617844610310427

Do they not understand that nobody cares..

The war is still going on, and GAZA and other Middle Eastern IRAN proxies will be bombed into oblivion.

 

[Ron in Regina]

US President Joe Biden has warned all sides involved in the negotiations for a possible Gaza ceasefire (like there was October 6th, 2023) deal not to undermine efforts.

Biden declared that “we are closer than we’ve ever been” to a ceasefire following the latest round of negotiations, but a senior Hamas official expressed scepticism.

A senior figure from Hamas - which did not participate in the talks, but was in contact with Qatari and Egyptian officials - told the BBC: “What the movement’s leadership was informed of today regarding the results of the Doha ceasefire meetings does not include a commitment to implement what was agreed upon on 2 July.”

(What was agreed to and by whom on July 2nd? The news article doesn’t say? Hmmm)

Do not undermine Gaza ceasefire deal, warns Biden — BBC News

The US president says negotiators are moving closer than ever to a ceasefire deal after new talks.

apple.news

 

[petros]

Ceasefire means nothing. Israel lost this one. Shit happened.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Ceasefire means nothing. Israel lost this one. Shit happened.

On the propaganda front, I completely agree with you. Israel was not as good as Hamas/Iran/Iranian proxies on the propaganda front. There was a very well organized and funded global media Push that was in place before Oct 7th, and once the trigger was pulled, it was out in full force doing damage control in multiple western countries on or before Oct 8th.

Even with many of the savages wearing GoPro’s and filming their own atrocities on October 7th…The propaganda machine kicked in to play Immediately which could only have happened with advance notice.
How many of these Palestinian flags above where out in multiple multiple numbers In western countries on or by October 8th?

Early on it was pointed out that it was the same posters in multiple cities in multiple countries, within days or hours of October 7th…for the Palestinian “cause” but that was buried by the propaganda machine.

With the “organic” “student” “protests” at many Western colleges and universities, so many had the exact same tents, & literature, tactics, etc…but that got buried by the propaganda machine.

Hamas having complete control of the media news being released from Gaza, & the Hamas controlled Gaza Health Ministry being the only Source of Information statistics during this Goat rodeo, & most western media outlets, gobbling that up without even trying to verify it’s accuracy or reality…yeah, Iran & it’s proxies are winning the propaganda end of things by far. They’ve steamrolled Israel on that front.

Israel, trying to be measured in their response, and no, I’m not being sarcastic or wearing blinders, waffled this thing. They had a tiny window to react, they took moderation as opposed to bringing down the wrath of their entire nation on Hamas due to propaganda…& that window is gone.

On October 7th, midday, they could’ve announced that there is a window of 72 hours for every hostage to be returned to Israel or Gaza would be hammered below the level of the tunnel network immediately…& then follow through on that in half the time of the six day war….But they didn’t. They took a measured, deliberate, mostly controlled response and it’s dragged out for the better part of a year so far with Hamas controlling the narrative.

Yes, much of Gaza is in rubble, but over the course of 10 months and not 10 days. Israel blew it by trying to just remove Hamas from its embedded positions in & under the remainder of the citizens of Gaza.

By trying to preserve the life of Gaza citizens that may not be Hamas, slowly disassembling the Hamas network, without having control of the propaganda machine of Iran/Qatar/etc…Israel has made themselves pariahs over the course of 10 months Instead of ending the whole thing in 3-10 days after a 3 day warning with the statement of anything that happens if the hostages aren’t returned within 72 hours is on the heads of Hamas and anybody who has funded them.

Petros, I agree with you that Israel has lost this round, and perhaps the whole game, by not reacting swiftly and decisively immediately.

 

[petros]

On the propaganda front, I completely agree with you. Israel was not as good as Hamas/Iran/Iranian proxies on the propaganda front. There was a very well organized and funded global media Push that was in place before Oct 7th, and once the trigger was pulled, it was out in full force doing damage control in multiple western countries on or before Oct 8th.

Even with many of the savages wearing GoPro’s and filming their own atrocities on October 7th…The propaganda machine kicked in to play Immediately which could only have happened with advance notice.
How many of these Palestinian flags above where out in multiple multiple numbers In western countries on or by October 8th?

Early on it was pointed out that it was the same posters in multiple cities in multiple countries, within days or hours of October 7th…for the Palestinian “cause” but that was buried by the propaganda machine.

With the “organic” “student” “protests” at many Western colleges and universities, so many had the exact same tents, & literature, tactics, etc…but that got buried by the propaganda machine.

Hamas having complete control of the media news being released from Gaza, & the Hamas controlled Gaza Health Ministry being the only Source of Information statistics during this Goat rodeo, & most western media outlets, gobbling that up without even trying to verify it’s accuracy or reality…yeah, Iran & it’s proxies are winning the propaganda end of things by far. They’ve steamrolled Israel on that front.

Israel, trying to be measured in their response, and no, I’m not being sarcastic or wearing blinders, waffled this thing. They had a tiny window to react, they took moderation as opposed to bringing down the wrath of their entire nation on Hamas due to propaganda…& that window is gone.

On October 7th, midday, they could’ve announced that there is a window of 72 hours for every hostage to be returned to Israel or Gaza would be hammered below the level of the tunnel network immediately…& then follow through on that in half the time of the six day war….But they didn’t. They took a measured, deliberate, mostly controlled response and it’s dragged out for the better part of a year so far with Hamas controlling the narrative.

Yes, much of Gaza is in rubble, but over the course of 10 months and not 10 days. Israel blew it by trying to just remove Hamas from its embedded positions in & under the remainder of the citizens of Gaza.

By trying to preserve the life of Gaza citizens that may not be Hamas, slowly disassembling the Hamas network, without having control of the propaganda machine of Iran/Qatar/etc…Israel has made themselves pariahs over the course of 10 months Instead of ending the whole thing in 3-10 days after a 3 day warning with the statement of anything that happens if the hostages aren’t returned within 72 hours is on the heads of Hamas and anybody who has funded them.

Petros, I agree with you that Israel has lost this round, and perhaps the whole game, by not reacting swiftly and decisively immediately.

Ever peruse the Israeli news outlets?

Israeli media must stop portraying criticism as antisemitism - opinion​

By NADAV TAMIR Published: AUGUST 15, 2024 01:39

Words create reality, which is why the separation between views and news in media ethics is so important.

I find it difficult to accept that many journalists in the mainstream media within Israel cannot distinguish between criticism of the government and criticism of the state.

Too many serious journalists describe the attitudes of countries or their citizens towards Israel by accepting face value the manipulative rhetoric spewed by the Israeli government and its spokespeople.

There are Israeli journalists who are extremely critical of the government in their coverage of the Israeli arena but treat similar foreign criticism as anti-Israeli, thus distorting the public’s perception of Israel’s status in the world. In doing so, they also damage their role of presenting reality and truth to the public.

Journalists are not supposed to be agents of advocacy. To the argument that this is how the media behaves in wartime, I will reply that this is how they perpetuate the war, since it is very convenient for an unpopular government to receive protection from mobilized media.

For example, let us examine the August 5 statement by Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, who is also in charge of military defense in the West Bank “No one in the world will allow us to starve and thirst two million civilians, even though it may be just and moral until we return our abductees.”

The world that prevents Smotrich from “starving two million civilians” is pro-Israel and expects Israel to act as a liberal democracy and not as a terrorist organization or in the same way as countries like Russia or Iran. The world that loudly criticizes the policies of Israel’s far-Right government is pro-Israel – just as most citizens of Israel who have lost faith in their government and its intentions are still lovers of Israel.

When Biden presses Israel to advance a deal to release hostages and end the war, he is doing so as someone who defines himself as a Zionist. When the United Kingdom lifts its objection to the issuance of an arrest warrant against Netanyahu, it is not its support for Israel that is undermined, but its willingness to accept the policies of Netanyahu and his government.

Israeli media must stop allying with the right
When countries issue arrest warrants against extremist settlers, it is not a step that harms their support for Israel or their relations with it, but rather a move designed to stop violent incidents against aid convoys and Palestinian civilians in which the Israeli enforcement system, operated under National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir, has failed to respond.

Imposing restrictions on the export of goods produced in settlements is not anti-Israel, certainly not antisemitic. On the contrary, it seeks to create the all-important distinction between the legitimate Israel within the “Green Line” [the borders of Israel after winning the 1948 War of Independence] and settlements which [many believe] violate international law. Decisions made by foreign governments to recognize a Palestinian state are also not anti-Israel, even if they contradict the policies of the Netanyahu government.

Words create reality, which is why the separation between views and news in media ethics is so important and the determination of what is for or against Israel is just an opinion, not a fact.

Netanyahu and his extremist ministers are interested in painting justified criticism of their policies and actions in anti-Israeli colors but this is not the reality. Most of the Western governments that criticize Netanyahu or his government are supporters of Israel and its citizens.

Netanyahu and his partners seek to portray any criticism of them and any policy that seeks to prevent them from realizing their war as anti-Israel or antisemitic doctrine. The Israeli media must stop cooperating with this right-wing narrative and instead must describe only facts.

There are indeed certain elements in the world that are against Israel, but the world as a majority is not against us. Europe is not against us, the governments of the liberal Left are not against us. They are against our extremists; they are against a bad and dangerous government that has brought us to the greatest disaster in our history.

The writer is J Street Israel’s executive director. He has served as an Israeli diplomat in Washington and Boston, and as a political adviser to the president of Israel.

Israeli media must stop portraying criticism as antisemitism - opinion

Words create reality, which is why the separation between views and news in media ethics is so important.

m.jpost.com

 

[Ron in Regina]

Ever peruse the Israeli news outlets?

Israeli media must stop portraying criticism as antisemitism - opinion​

By NADAV TAMIR Published: AUGUST 15, 2024 01:39

Words create reality, which is why the separation between views and news in media ethics is so important.

I find it difficult to accept that many journalists in the mainstream media within Israel cannot distinguish between criticism of the government and criticism of the state.

Too many serious journalists describe the attitudes of countries or their citizens towards Israel by accepting face value the manipulative rhetoric spewed by the Israeli government and its spokespeople.

There are Israeli journalists who are extremely critical of the government in their coverage of the Israeli arena but treat similar foreign criticism as anti-Israeli, thus distorting the public’s perception of Israel’s status in the world. In doing so, they also damage their role of presenting reality and truth to the public.

Journalists are not supposed to be agents of advocacy. To the argument that this is how the media behaves in wartime, I will reply that this is how they perpetuate the war, since it is very convenient for an unpopular government to receive protection from mobilized media.

For example, let us examine the August 5 statement by Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, who is also in charge of military defense in the West Bank “No one in the world will allow us to starve and thirst two million civilians, even though it may be just and moral until we return our abductees.”

The world that prevents Smotrich from “starving two million civilians” is pro-Israel and expects Israel to act as a liberal democracy and not as a terrorist organization or in the same way as countries like Russia or Iran. The world that loudly criticizes the policies of Israel’s far-Right government is pro-Israel – just as most citizens of Israel who have lost faith in their government and its intentions are still lovers of Israel.

When Biden presses Israel to advance a deal to release hostages and end the war, he is doing so as someone who defines himself as a Zionist. When the United Kingdom lifts its objection to the issuance of an arrest warrant against Netanyahu, it is not its support for Israel that is undermined, but its willingness to accept the policies of Netanyahu and his government.

Israeli media must stop allying with the right
When countries issue arrest warrants against extremist settlers, it is not a step that harms their support for Israel or their relations with it, but rather a move designed to stop violent incidents against aid convoys and Palestinian civilians in which the Israeli enforcement system, operated under National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir, has failed to respond.

Imposing restrictions on the export of goods produced in settlements is not anti-Israel, certainly not antisemitic. On the contrary, it seeks to create the all-important distinction between the legitimate Israel within the “Green Line” [the borders of Israel after winning the 1948 War of Independence] and settlements which [many believe] violate international law. Decisions made by foreign governments to recognize a Palestinian state are also not anti-Israel, even if they contradict the policies of the Netanyahu government.

Words create reality, which is why the separation between views and news in media ethics is so important and the determination of what is for or against Israel is just an opinion, not a fact.

Netanyahu and his extremist ministers are interested in painting justified criticism of their policies and actions in anti-Israeli colors but this is not the reality. Most of the Western governments that criticize Netanyahu or his government are supporters of Israel and its citizens.

Netanyahu and his partners seek to portray any criticism of them and any policy that seeks to prevent them from realizing their war as anti-Israel or antisemitic doctrine. The Israeli media must stop cooperating with this right-wing narrative and instead must describe only facts.

There are indeed certain elements in the world that are against Israel, but the world as a majority is not against us. Europe is not against us, the governments of the liberal Left are not against us. They are against our extremists; they are against a bad and dangerous government that has brought us to the greatest disaster in our history.

The writer is J Street Israel’s executive director. He has served as an Israeli diplomat in Washington and Boston, and as a political adviser to the president of Israel.

Israeli media must stop portraying criticism as antisemitism - opinion

Words create reality, which is why the separation between views and news in media ethics is so important.

m.jpost.com

I peruse from all over the place, & post links from what (at least for me) are non-paywall sites…so yes I have & do. News articles, opinion pieces like the one you just posted, YouTube, newspaper comments & other forum boards, outlets from other countries inside and out of the commonwealth, etc…

 

[petros]

I peruse from all over the place, & post links from what (at least for me) are non-paywall sites…so yes I have & do. News articles, opinion pieces like the one you just posted, YouTube, newspaper comments & other forum boards, outlets from other countries inside and out of the commonwealth, etc…

Good. Nor Am news is fucked.

Settler rampage in West Bank sparks rare condemnation from Israeli leaders
By JULIA FRANKEL and AREF TUFAHA
Updated 10:28 AM CST, August 16, 2024

JIT, West Bank (AP) — Israeli leaders on Friday roundly condemned a deadly settler rampage in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, a rare Israeli denunciation of the settler violence growing more common since the start of the Israel-Hamas war.

The settler riot in the village of Jit, near the city of Nablus in the northern West Bank, killed one Palestinian and badly injured others late Thursday, Palestinian health officials said.

Residents interviewed by The Associated Press said at least a hundred masked settlers entered the village, shot live ammunition at Palestinians, burned homes and cars and damaged water tankers. Video showed flames engulfing the small village, which residents said was left to defend itself without military help for two hours.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he took the riots “seriously” and that Israelis who carried out criminal acts would be prosecuted. He issued what appeared to be a call for settlers to stand down.

“Those who fight terrorism are the IDF and the security forces, and no one else,” he said, using an acronym for the Israeli military.

President Isaac Herzog also condemned the attack, as did Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, who said the settlers had “attacked innocent people.” He added they did not “represent the values” of settler communities.

Terrorism is just "rampage".

Good thing it hasnt been happening for the past century. Things could get ugly.

 

[Twin_Moose]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1824921847042879581

 

[petros]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1824921847042879581

JKK havent heard of whack-a-mole?

 

[petros]

More State Sponsored Terrorism.

Israel News
'They Saw Everything and Did Nothing' | Investigation Shows Settler Raid on Palestinian Village Took Place as IDF Forces Stood By

The soldiers 'didn't do anything to stop the pogrom,' a senior defense official said, 'they just stood there next to them, saw everything and did nothing.' The body of the Palestinian who was killed was taken for autopsy, but the results are inconclusive as to who shot him

Josh Breiner
Aug 17, 2024

Israeli army reservists stood idly by as dozens of Jewish settlers in the West Bank descended upon a Palestinian village, burning buildings and vehicles, attacking local residents and killing a 23-year-old Palestinian, according to a preliminary investigation by Israel.....


Niiiiiice.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Israeli army reservists stood idly by as dozens of Jewish settlers in the West Bank descended upon a Palestinian village, burning buildings and vehicles, attacking local residents and killing a 23-year-old Palestinian, according to a preliminary investigation by Israel.....


Niiiiiice.

Sounds like two-tier enforcement, but that thankfully doesn’t happen anywhere outside of Israel. Not justifying any of that ugly shit happening in the West Bank that is being condemned by those inside & out of Israel.

The fact that we’re hearing about this happening (though it’s a shitty thing that’s happening) is a good thing and if that same two-tier enforcement was happening in Britain or Canada…would we be hearing about it?

(Haaretz is Israel's newspaper of record. It is known for its left-wing and liberal stances on domestic and foreign issues, and yet its out there, during a war its home/host nation is involved in, free to post what it does, which should say a lot for the JKK pack of terrorists, etc…)

 

[Serryah]

IDF used protocol that may have risked civilian lives in Hamas attack – report

Haaretz shows Hannibal directive employed at three sites to prevent kidnapping of soldiers during 7 October assault

www.theguardian.com

Israeli forces in Gaza ‘use civilians as human shields’ against possible booby-traps

Newspaper and campaign group allege Palestinians are sent ahead of troops into buildings or tunnels that need clearing

www.theguardian.com

Sooo....

Who are the "Better people"?


JFC... there'd be an outcry if anyone else did this.

Israel gets silence?

I hope to HELL that as this gets out, people turn against Israel's current Government.

 

[justfred]

We get reports that the Hamas group are reluctant to attend the meetings to stop the war. So the Hamas don’t want to settle the war, as that would be in defiance to the rules that the Hamas operate under, the rules by Iran? What I see as a problem, is that that world is trying to meddle in a war between Israel and Gaza/Hamas/Iran. When the UN put the settlement in place in 1948 (I think) they imposed their rule to the two areas. Either side did not like that and the war ( lesser war) went on for 75 years. Let Israel and Gaza/Iran fight it out until one sides wins, eliminating the other, fight should be over.
I can see the reason that Hamas do not want to settle the war, Iran does not care what happens to Gaza, as the people getting killed and displaced are pawns, a means to an end. Are they prepared to take the remaining Palestinians citizens out of Gaza and take them back to Iran, apparently so, as they continue the war, hoping that few are left living, thanks to Israel.

 

[petros]

Sounds like two-tier enforcement, but that thankfully doesn’t happen anywhere outside of Israel. Not justifying any of that ugly shit happening in the West Bank that is being condemned by those inside & out of Israel.

The fact that we’re hearing about this happening (though it’s a shitty thing that’s happening) is a good thing and if that same two-tier enforcement was happening in Britain or Canada…would we be hearing about it?

(Haaretz is Israel's newspaper of record. It is known for its left-wing and liberal stances on domestic and foreign issues, and yet its out there, during a war its home/host nation is involved in, free to post what it does, which should say a lot for the JKK pack of terrorists, etc…)

Terrorism on West Bank is far more common and savage than we get to hear. I know. I read JPost and others too. The is no left and right when it comes to terrorists.

It doesn't make it go away.

 

[Ron in Regina]

IDF used protocol that may have risked civilian lives in Hamas attack – report

Haaretz shows Hannibal directive employed at three sites to prevent kidnapping of soldiers during 7 October assault

www.theguardian.com

Israeli forces in Gaza ‘use civilians as human shields’ against possible booby-traps

Newspaper and campaign group allege Palestinians are sent ahead of troops into buildings or tunnels that need clearing

www.theguardian.com

Sooo....

Who are the "Better people"?

Good question. What sources are you basing this comparison on (?) that we’re suppose to base this choice upon and where do they fit on the bias-scale?

The Guardian for one perspective & opposing that with The Guardian for the other? Is The Guardian know for its exclusively Centerist reporting in a balance in the universe sort’a thing there Mrs Pot?

Sincerely,
Mr Kettle

 

[Serryah]

Good question. What sources are you basing this comparison on (?) that we’re suppose to base this choice upon and where do they fit on the bias-scale?

The Guardian for one perspective & opposing that with The Guardian for the other? Is The Guardian know for its exclusively Centerist reporting in a balance in the universe sort’a thing there Mrs Pot?

Sincerely,
Mr Kettle

Well since a lot of people here tend to use the Guardian, I threw that up there for shits and echo giggles.

But if you'd watch the video, they mention that the use of the Civilians comes from Israeli Media, Haaretez.

And then:

Report: IDF using Gazans to check areas that may be booby-trapped before troops enter

Soldiers tell Israeli newspaper that commanders send Palestinian civilians into tunnels and buildings they fear are rigged, claim chief of staff and top brass aware of practice

www.timesofisrael.com

As for the bias.

The Guardian - Bias and Credibility

LEFT-CENTER BIAS These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording

mediabiasfactcheck.com

Times of Israel - Bias and Credibility

LEFT-CENTER BIAS These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording

mediabiasfactcheck.com

Haaretz - Bias and Credibility

LEFT BIAS These media sources are moderate to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may

mediabiasfactcheck.com

 

[Ron in Regina]

We get reports that the Hamas group are reluctant to attend the meetings to stop the war…

…because of what was agreed upon by someone about something on July 2nd. What was agreed upon & by whom on July 2nd? I ask ‘cuz I don’t know, but I’ve read that’s the justification for skipping out, etc…

Terrorism on West Bank is far more common and savage than we get to hear. I know. I read JPost and others too. The is no left and right when it comes too terrorists.

But you are hearing & siting articles from Jewish based news outlets about them from what’s (let’s say) mainstream media in Israel like the JPost & others. It’s not an international threat (posturing or otherwise) about penalty of law for reposting a copy&paste of what you’ve been able to read there either. Weird that? From the Jewish Terrorists I mean.

I’m mentally juxtaposing that against what we’re hearing coming out’a the UK currently (censorship wise I mean). Are we also getting two sides of the story coming from the Gaza mainstream media, etc…?

[URL unfurl="true"Sooo....

Who are the "Better people"?

Good question.

Good question.

JFC... there'd be an outcry if anyone else did this.

Israel gets silence?

I hope to HELL that as this gets out, people turn against Israel's current Government.

There is an outcry, from inside & out of Israel.

Not justifying any of that ugly shit happening in the West Bank that is being condemned by those inside & out of Israel.

Getting a pass from whom? Are we silencing on the forum about this, this morning?

Well since a lot of people here tend to use the Guardian, I threw that up there for shits and echo giggles.

You & the guy who actually lives in the UK?

As for the bias.

The Guardian - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Other sources might label it Center-Left like other sources might label the NDP or current Liberals in Canada as Center-Left, when other sources don’t…etc…bias, whatever.

Does Center-Left mean Center (?) or Left (?) or something else, like closer to that Center than Far Left…but not the center?

 

[petros]

…But you are hearing & siting articles from Jewish based news outlets about them from what’s (let’s say) mainstream media in Israel like the JPost & others. It’s not an international threat (posturing or otherwise) about penalty of law for reposting a copy&paste of what you’ve been able to read there either. Weird that? From the Jewish Terrorists I mean.

They are a rarity and tainted. Remind me of title of the article. Does it define what happened as terror which this shit is?

Like anything, you have to start at the beginning to know who is who and the whys and whats.

How did all this begin?

 

[Serryah]

Good question.

Answer is - neither side is "Good" in this, or better, or anything.

There is an outcry, from inside & out of Israel.

Oh really? This originally came out days ago, and nada yet in anything major outside Israel, and even Israel seems "meh" bout it but then that could be just appearances.

Getting a pass from whom? Are we silencing on the forum about this, this morning?

... are you being... obtuse... on purpose, Ron?

There's more to the world than this forum.

You & the guy who actually lives in the UK?

View attachment 24159
View attachment 24160

The Guardian - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And other people use The Guardian too so...

Other sources might label it Center-Left like other sources might label the NDP or current Liberals in Canada as Center-Left, when other sources don’t…etc…bias, whatever.

Maybe look at the link I gave via media bias.

Does Center-Left mean Center (?) or Left (?) or something else, like closer to that Center than Far Left…but not the center?

*sigh*

Whatever you want to believe, Ron.