Gun Control is Completely Useless.

L Gilbert

L Gilbert

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EagleSmack said:
You're sure you're not thinking of something else?



Unsettled... but blame him anyways.

You add new meaning to ridiculous.




He's killing babies now? Good grief.



Let's see... I was a Grunt and have a kick azz job. My Machine Gunner is a million dollar lawyer in Miami... Another guy in my squad created and owns company that makes BMX bikes and parts internationally and lives in a kick azz house in the L.A hills, he's worth millions. Quite a few cops, federal agents and firefighters... another lawyer in New Orleans...a guy that owns an Electrical Contracting company... another owns a Security/Alarm company...the list goes on and on.

Us Grunts are sure stupid.

If only I could have been like my college educated buddies who sell insurance and tend bar. Or the older guy from my neighborhood who was a Navy pilot and got out to work at Home Depot for years. I guess that Chemistry Degree didn't work out so well for him in the end.
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lol Chill, dude, I was playing on a stereotype. It's why I said "Grunt" instead of "Marine". :D
Seriously though, neing successful and having dough doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with being intelligent.
 
Corduroy

Corduroy

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Feb 9, 2011
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Colpy said:
Dear Mr. Obama

THE SECOND AMENDMENT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HUNTING.
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It's about keeping King George from barging into your house and rifling through your personal effects. Far-fetched? Well with all this talk of gun control, the British monarchy is getting ready.


"Time to take back what is ours"
 
Colpy

Colpy

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Corduroy said:
It's about keeping King George from barging into your house and rifling through your personal effects. Far-fetched? Well with all this talk of gun control, the British monarchy is getting ready.


"Time to take back what is ours"
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Elizabeth is Coming!!!

(apologies for any damaging mental images inspired by my comment)
 
Niflmir

Niflmir

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Colpy said:
Registration means confiscation....every time, no matter where you live.

Gun Confiscation Bill Proposed in California: ‘We Can Save Lives’ | TheBlaze.com
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Well to be fair (and to drop the false equivalence quibble for the sake of discussion), if the US was to move towards any sort of gun control (even the kind seen in Canada) there would have to be widespread confiscations.

In my opinion, nobody should be allowed to own rocket launchers (unloaded or otherwise)--except in special ranges, maybe. There will be a lot of confiscations necessary if they decide to ban them in the USA.

Honestly, is that a bad thing? Confiscating rocket launchers?
 
Niflmir

Niflmir

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Colpy said:
Guns and Self Defense | Cato Institute
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No. They completely mischaracterize the purpose of gun control.

Consider the following sequence of events:

A woman walks down a busy street with a fully automatic weapon strapped on her back. She enters the local train station. She takes the weapon from the holster. She removes the safety. She proceeds to open fire on the crowd of people.
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At which point did she become a criminal? The answer is: it depends on the location that the event took place because the location determines the gun control laws in effect. There are many places in the US where no crime was broken until the end.

The purpose of gun control laws is generally to move the point in that sequence of events where the woman becomes a criminal to a point where the deaths can be prevented in the first place.

Advocates of free gun access want to argue that after the first few deaths, they can return fire. There are at least two big holes in this argument:
  1. Everybody draws their weapon at once, how do you identify the person to return fire on?
  2. How do you minimize bullets shot to a number below 2?

The answers to those questions are:
  1. Naive belief in instinct.
  2. Naive belief in a perfect law-abiding world.

Gun control is the only solution with the potential to prevent any deaths in the first place. Not everyone is arguing that the point in the sequence needs to be moved outside of the sequence I outlined.

DaSleeper said:
Today rocket launchers.......

Tomorrow.........




Oh wait a minute ....they are already doing it....

6-year-old boy suspended for pointing finger like a gun got off easy
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Maybe you were not aware that you are perpetrating a fallacy: Slippery slope - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Do you also suppose that we will next allow a man to marry his dog because we allowed homosexuals to marry?

What that story actually illustrates is a disturbing trend to over legislate the behavior of minors. Which you will hear me argue against quite a bit.
 
DaSleeper

DaSleeper

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CDNBear

CDNBear

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taxslave

taxslave

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Niflmir said:
Well to be fair (and to drop the false equivalence quibble for the sake of discussion), if the US was to move towards any sort of gun control (even the kind seen in Canada) there would have to be widespread confiscations.

In my opinion, nobody should be allowed to own rocket launchers (unloaded or otherwise)--except in special ranges, maybe. There will be a lot of confiscations necessary if they decide to ban them in the USA.

Honestly, is that a bad thing? Confiscating rocket launchers?
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There is more gun control in the US than most people think. It is just that it is state run with no overriding national law.
 
Niflmir

Niflmir

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taxslave said:
There is more gun control in the US than most people think. It is just that it is state run with no overriding national law.
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Gun laws and gun control are two very different things. If you can legally own a rocket launcher, there is no meaningful gun control. Each state has its own law on concealed vs. open carry. So you get 100 laws right there, 100 laws that do not have any meaningful impact in the sequence of events I posted and so can't be said to be gun control.

So don't toss that dead herring at me.
 
Niflmir

Niflmir

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CDNBear said:
I'm aware it was, I'm also aware that I can avoid the fallacy by acknowledging a middle ground, which there is.

Unfortunately history dictates that there is a slippery slope where gun control is concerned and A does lead to Z...

History of Firearms Control in Canada: Up to and Including the Firearms Act - Royal Canadian Mounted Police
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Proposition A is control over nuclear bombs. If we do not all agree that nuclear bombs need to be controlled, then I have really misunderstood our common ground.

Proposition Z is a rock. Or a femur, if you are a Stanley Kubrick fan...

History definitely dictates that middle ground is always found, I mean that literally: always. We quibble over where to place the line, I call the line gun control. Some people call any line to the left of where they think it belongs gun control, and they claim that everything else is not gun control. That is a hypocritical position, and that is the argument I pose to OP.
 
El Barto

El Barto

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Feb 11, 2007
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Colpy said:
Okay folks, I went crazy.

I got thinking about the insistence of the anti-gun folks that we don't want to be like the AMERICANS, with no gun control, and blood running in the streets! I had read that murder was so high in American ghettoes that it skewed national figures, as (obviously) there could be social causes for murder in those circumstances.........SOOOOOO

I went looking to isolate two populations, as close as possible in population make-up, culture, etc, with the ONLY difference being gun control laws. I settled on the west, the provinces of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta in Canada, and the three American states that border them, Montana, North Dakota, and Minnesota. These seemed to be the best examples, as they are the two areas of Canada and the United States that are the most alike in population culture, etc., yet most different in gun legislation.

Let me lay it out for you.

In Canada, before you buy a long gun, you must pass a safety course, undergo an investigation, get references including your spouse, obtain a license, and register the firearm. Most military semi-autos are prohibited. Semi-auto rifles can only have magazines with 5 rounds

In these states, if you want the semi-auto version of the American military M-16, you walk into the gun store, put down your cash, buy the piece and as many 30 round magazines as you like. You wait a federally-mandated 7 days, and go get your rifle. No license, no registration, no course, any rifle is OK.

In Canada, the vast majority of handguns are prohibited. If you want a handgun, you must either be a collector, or a target shooter. Self-defense is NOT allowed. You must have a long gun license (see above), pass ANOTHER course, and register your pistol. You must belong to a gun club, and you are ONLY allowed to transfer the weapon back and forth from the club to home, it must be trigger locked, and in a locked case.

If you want a handgun in any of these states, it is exactly the same as the process for buying a military "assault" rifle in the Sates, as laid out above. No license, no registration, no course, no NOTHING. NO handguns are prohibited.

In Canada, getting a license to carry a handgun is practically impossible.

In these states, the gov't MUST give you a license to carry a handgun for self-defense if you don't have a criminal record.

Just to make it clear, here are the ratings for the states given by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence: Montana (F), North Dakota (D), Minnesota ( C-)

Believe me, Canada would get an A+++ from Sarah Brady.

So, Canada is a wonderful, peaceful place where everyone is safe and happy, but step across the border and you trip over bodies and fall into the mess of blood, guts and expended shell casings, right?

Well, maybe not.

MURDER RATES
------------------------2000...2001...2002...2003...2004
Manitoba------------ 2.61...2.95...3.12...3.70... 4.27 (per 100,000)
(2002 - 1,151,000)-----30.....34......36.....43..... 49 (murders)

Saskatchewan------2.58...2.70... 2.71...4.12...3.92
(2002 - 1,000,000).... 26.... 27..... 27.....41.....39

Alberta---------------1.96...2.29... 2.25...2.03...2.69
(2002 - 3,056,000).... 60.....70......69.....62 .... 82

Montana.............1.80...3.80....1.80...3.30...3.20
(2003 - 917,000).......17.....35......17......30.....29

North Dakota.......0.60...1.10... 0.80....1.90...1.40
(2003 - 633,000)........4.......7.......5......12.......9

Minnesota..........3.10... 2.40... 2.20... 2.50...2.20
(2003 - 5,059,000)..157.....121.....111....126....111

HERE'S THE SHOCKER!


MURDER RATES PER 100,000
----------------------------------2000...2001...2002...2003...2004
Canada West-----------------2.22----2.52----2.54---2.80----3.26 (per 100,000)
Population 5,207,000........116.... 131.....132....146....170 (murders)

USA Northwest---------------2.69----2.47----2.01---2.54----2.25
Population 6,609,000........178.... 163......133....168.....149

GUN CONTROL IS A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME!
BTW Figuring this out took me HOURS.............Canadian stats are from Stats Canada, American Stats on population are from U.S. Population by State, 1790 to 2011 — FactMonster.com

American Stats on murder rates are from Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center

Facts on state gun laws are from Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

Math concerned is by ME.

Edited to say: DAMN, I had those all set out in coherent tables, but all spacing disappeared when I submitted it........so (being computer illiterate) I've used spacers......sorry about that)
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I appreciate the effort you set up here..... but that doesn't mean gun laws are useless.... could you imagine how many murders there would of been in Canada if we didn't have gun laws? !!!!
We are far from being more civil than Americans.
 
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