Gun Control is Completely Useless.

[Ocean Breeze]

with this kind of prevailing attitude, of course it is useless:

Santorum: ‘Damn right’ we cling to guns and religion

guns and religion. What a mix. sefl contradicting at best. Doesn't matter much anyhow. They will have their guns no matter what., so what kind of "control" are they referring to?? Heck, the more guns the better. (sarcasm alert). "Enter the US at your own risk. " should be posted at the border as a "welcome" sign. :roll: Guns are prevelant in most of the troubled places on the planet.

Santorum: ‘Damn right’ we cling to guns and religion | The Raw Story

 

[DaSleeper]

Well, the first real explosives I ever made (back when I was making explosives, at 14) were made from the gun powder found in loose shotgun shells my father left lying around.
Shortly thereafter I just started making my own gun powder, it was much cheaper, and I was less likely of getting caught making my bombs.

In my youth ...I have made black powder, gun cotton, the base for smokeless powder and finally (Only once, because the results scared me) nitroglycerin since the nitric and sulfuric acid proportions are close to nitrocellulose.
But I fail to see that a box of cartridges or two someone might have in a cupboard might be considered explosives....and besides that...having them locked-up doesn't make them less so.

One time in a hunting camp, one of the guys had left a full box of 22 shells on the wood pile outside.
That evening when we started the fire in the small wood stove the shells ended up in there.
There was no damage to the little stove....just a little bit of surprise to the guys playing cards at the table when we heard the series of pops.....:smile:

 

[Niflmir]

In my youth ...I have made black powder, gun cotton, the base for smokeless powder and finally (Only once, because the results scared me) nitroglycerin since the nitric and sulfuric acid proportions are close to nitrocellulose.
But I fail to see that a box of cartridges or two someone might have in a cupboard might be considered explosives....and besides that...having them locked-up doesn't make them less so.
One time in a hunting camp, one of the guys had left a full box of 22 shells on the wood pile outside.
That evening when we started the fire in the small wood stove the shells ended up in there.
There was no damage to the little stove....just a little bit of surprise to the guys playing cards at the table when we heard the series of pops.....:smile:

Truth be told, Canada seems to be a bit in love with these sorts of laws.

• Smoking fines if you are within 15m (15 ft? Can't remember) of a building.
• Fines if you aren't wearing your seatbelt.
• Fines if you aren't wearing a bicycle helmet.
• Fines if you don't clean up after your dog.
• Fines if you are on the beach after sundown.
• Fines if you drink in public (but it is ok if the table is owned by a restaurant).
• Fines if you are drunk in public.
• DUI if you are sleeping in your own vehicle (instead of driving home) and drunk.
• Fines if your gun is not locked up.
• Fines if your bullets aren't locked up.
• Fines if you are making noise after 10pm.

And so on. The behaviour control is a bit over the top.

 

[Colpy]

with this kind of prevailing attitude, of course it is useless:



guns and religion. What a mix. sefl contradicting at best. Doesn't matter much anyhow. They will have their guns no matter what., so what kind of "control" are they referring to?? Heck, the more guns the better. (sarcasm alert). "Enter the US at your own risk. " should be posted at the border as a "welcome" sign. :roll: Guns are prevelant in most of the troubled places on the planet.

Santorum: ‘Damn right’ we cling to guns and religion | The Raw Story

I know you hate the USA, but this crap about how dangerous it is starts to irritate me.

The world-wide murder rate is 6.9 per 100,000.

The murder rate in the United States is 4.8 per 100,000...............a LOT less than the average.

In other words, the USA is among the safest places to live.

The worst murder rate on earth is in Honduras, with 86.0 murders per 100,000. That is EIGHTEEN TIMES the US rate. Oh, and they have tough gun control. Guns in Honduras: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law

Or how about number two, El Salvador, with a murder rate of 71.0 per 100,000. That is FOURTEEN times the US rate. Oh, and they have tough gun control. Guns in El Salvador: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law

Or number three: Saint Kitts and Nevis, with a murder rate of 68.0 per 100,000. That is also FOURTEEN times the US rate. Oh, and they have tough gun control too! Surprise, surprise! Guns in St Kitts & Nevis: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law

Compare, to the USA, or to three other modern, developed nations that are in the ten top gun owning nations on earth;

Finland 2.0 per 100,000

Sweden 0.86 per 100,000

Switzerland 0.66 per 100,000

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In other words, Ocean Breeze, I call BULLSHYTE, with evidence presented, and I suggest you owe the Americans and the gun owners on this site an apology.

 

[Niflmir]

The plural of anecdote is not data.

First few on topic results from "guns homicide rate" on scholar.google.com:

Switzerland: https://www.ncjrs.gov/app/abstractdb/AbstractDBDetails.aspx?id=128821

Dated article that actually does regression: Firearm Availability and Homicide Rates across 26 High-Incom... : The Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery

Same: International correlations between gun ownership and rates of homicide and suicide.

That is, gun ownership is positively correlated with homicide rates. As with all statistics, individual results will vary.

Since I mentioned it, if you are actually interested I could do a regression on those wikipedia numbers.

 

[Colpy]

The plural of anecdote is not data.

First few on topic results from "guns homicide rate" on scholar.google.com:

Switzerland: https://www.ncjrs.gov/app/abstractdb/AbstractDBDetails.aspx?id=128821

Dated article that actually does regression: Firearm Availability and Homicide Rates across 26 High-Incom... : The Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery

Same: International correlations between gun ownership and rates of homicide and suicide.

That is, gun ownership is positively correlated with homicide rates. As with all statistics, individual results will vary.

Since I mentioned it, if you are actually interested I could do a regression on those wikipedia numbers.

You should read the abstracts before you post.

Switzerland was found to have a low homicide rate and a high suicide rate, together with widespread ownership of the military equipment needed for the country's militia. However, Switzerland has five times as many homicides committed with guns as Great Britain versus only a slightly higher non-gun homicide rate. In addition, automatic weapons can be purchased in Switzerland only under extremely restrictive conditions. Furthermore, the military weapons that are kept in Swiss households are of little use to ordinary criminals, because they are heavy and far too long to be concealed under a coat or in a case. The results indicate a substantial impact of firearms on homicide and suicide. 10 references

https://www.ncjrs.gov/app/abstractdb/AbstractDBDetails.aspx?id=128821

This is not logical. Consult the list of countries by homicide rate, and you will find the Swiss rate has been LOWER than that in the UK EVERY year in the last ten listed (2000-09) It is impossible that "Switzerland has five times as many homicides committed with guns as Great Britain versus only a slightly higher non-gun homicide rate." Therefore the study is bogus.

On to the next one:

Background: Among developed nations, the United States has the highest rate of civilian gun ownership, and the highest homicide rate. We examine whether the United States is merely an exception, or if a relationship between gun availability and homicide exists across all developed nations.

Firearm Availability and Homicide Rates across 26 High-Incom... : The Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery
Baloney, as we have already seen, both Switzerland and Sweden have very high gun ownership rates, and are among the safest nations on earth. Both have murder rates LESS than 1.0 per 100,000. That is not even taking on the entire premise that only "developed" nations count........cherry-picking at its worst.

Also, you should look at the authors.....these are the guys that want you to wear helmets to tea parties.......they have an agenda.

Speaking of cherry-picking:

People who responded to a telephone survey conducted by the 1989 International Crime Survey in 11 European countries, Australia, Canada and the United States.

International correlations between gun ownership and rates of homicide and suicide.

Once again, "developed" countries.

And lumping suicide in with homicide.

BS for all the same reasons as I listed for the last article.

Everybody (including me) has an agenda, so you are best off to look at the data yourself, and reach your OWN conclusions.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Go ahead, find a correlation.

You can't.

I rest my case.

 

[Niflmir]

This is not logical. Consult the list of countries by homicide rate, and you will find the Swiss rate has been LOWER than that in the UK EVERY year in the last ten listed (2000-09) It is impossible that "Switzerland has five times as many homicides committed with guns as Great Britain versus only a slightly higher non-gun homicide rate." Therefore the study is bogus.
Go ahead, find a correlation.
You can't.
I rest my case.

I see you are unaware of Simpson's paradox. If you understand Simpson's paradox, you will understand why the study makes sense, and why careful studies are necessary.

Oh, I don't expect to find a correlation. I've looked into it before and all the data I find usually doesn't have the power or the significance to say anything. I said I would perform a regression if anyone was interested in what the wikipedia numbers actually amounted to, as opposed to just pulling numbers out of the web to support their ideological position.

 

[Colpy]

I see you are unaware of Simpson's paradox. If you understand Simpson's paradox, you will understand why the study makes sense, and why careful studies are necessary.

Oh, I don't expect to find a correlation. I've looked into it before and all the data I find usually doesn't have the power or the significance to say anything. I said I would perform a regression if anyone was interested in what the wikipedia numbers actually amounted to, as opposed to just pulling numbers out of the web to support their ideological position.

I'm just a simple guy.

When the numbers don't add up, they don't add up.

Simple as that.

 

[Niflmir]

I'm just a simple guy.
When the numbers don't add up, they don't add up.
Simple as that.

Yeah, but rates aren't additive, so of course they don't add up. First you need to multiply by the total number of test subjects in both cases, then you add those numbers, then you divide by the combined totals. In doing so you obscure one the confounding variables, and that gives you Simpson's paradox.

In the Swiss case, guns seem to not impact the non-gun related homicide rate, so if you look at combined numbers, you conclude one thing, but when you separate, you conclude the other thing.

If you thought about it at length, you would realize that it amounts to the same thing. You can't just look at homicide rates on the one hand and total numbers of guns in the country on the other hand and expect to see anything meaningful. For instance, the homicide rates in the US have been dropping at a pretty optimistic rate in recent years, so what were they doing correctly? I am pretty sure gun ownership hasn't been going down.

 

[Colpy]

Quebec becomes Canada's control group on the effectiveness of gun registry laws | Full Comment | National Post

 

[petros]

Well, let the spend the cash to find out. It's better than me and you.

 

[Colpy]

Well, let the spend the cash to find out. It's better than me and you.

Absolutely true.....but let them spend their own cash.

As it is, I can not understand how a Quebecer could be charged under a Criminal Code section that no longer exists........

 

[petros]

It would be a Provinial summary conviction rather than indictable.

 

[Colpy]

A little history on gun control, slavery, the KKK and the NRA.........heh heh.

This will give you an idea of how gun control laws worked. Following the firebombing of his house in 1956, Dr. Martin Luther King, who was, among other things, a Christian minister, applied for a gun permit, but the Alabama authorities found him unsuitable. A decade later, he won a Nobel Peace Prize.

How's that "may issue" gun permit policy working for you?

The NRA opposed these discretionary gun permit laws and proceeded to grant NRA charters to blacks who sought to defend themselves from Klan violence -- including the great civil rights hero Robert F. Williams.

A World War II Marine veteran, Williams returned home to Monroe, N.C., to find the Klan riding high -- beating, lynching and murdering blacks at will. No one would join the NAACP for fear of Klan reprisals. Williams became president of the local chapter and increased membership from six to more than 200.

But it was not until he got a charter from the NRA in 1957 and founded the Black Armed Guard that the Klan got their comeuppance in Monroe.

Williams' repeated thwarting of violent Klan attacks is described in his stirring book, "Negroes With Guns." In one crucial battle, the Klan sieged the home of a black physician and his wife, but Williams and his Black Armed Guard stood sentry and repelled the larger, cowardly force. And that was the end of it.

As the Klan found out, it's not so much fun when the rabbit's got the gun.

Read the entire article.....fascinating.

Ann Coulter - April 18, 2012 - NEGROES WITH GUNS

In whichever state they are most insistent you be unarmed, that is where you most need to be armed.

 

[petros]

Should a full blown Commie like MLK have been allowed guns during the Cold War?

 

[Colpy]

Should a full blown Commie like MLK have been allowed guns during the Cold War?

A BAPTIST commie??/

Perish the thought!

We leave that stuff to the Catholics, they're all going to Hell anyway.

 

[petros]

Yup! Commie. Baptist to boot.

 

[Colpy]

Caillin Langmann on Jerry Agar Show May 15 2012 - YouTube

 

[eh1eh]

LOL.

Texas: Raul Rodriguez "Stand Your Ground" Shooting Caught On Tape - YouTube

 

[Locutus]