Gun Control is Completely Useless.

[petros]

I'll never forget the time my buddy thought he'd teach his wife to shoot. He stood behind her and put his head on her shoulder to "help" her aim.

He is now missing a tooth and has a 5cm scar on his forehead.

 

[petros]

Drunks kill 10,000 per year simply by being in public with an auto.

What a wonderful idea to arm them too.

 

[Colpy]

In 2002, there were 816 firearms deaths in Canada.

80% were voluntary (suicide).

That leaves about 160 deaths by accident, justifiable homicide (police or civilian), and murder.

Yep, we need more gun control.

BTW, over 65% of the murders were commited with handguns.........illegal, smuggled handguns, outside the regulatory controls of gov't.

According to Stats Canada.

 

[petros]

How many suicides were with smuggled or illegal weapons? If access were easier what would the impact be on suicides?

 

[Unforgiven]

Wrong. You forget, I used to teach this stuff. You are legally allowed to use force to prevent the commission of a crime.....but that force can only be the minimum necessary to prevent the crime being committed.....and lethal force can only be used if someone is in danger of death or serious harm.

Then you know you are only allowed to use reasonable force to prevent a serious crime. I don't think punching someone in the mouth for snatching your dirty undies from a laundrymat is eligeble.

The point being, we have insurance to cover things like someone ripping off your valuble stuff like your car. That way you don't have to try to jump the car thief and start a fight in which you or he will have to kill to prevent. It's only a car.

As well you know that if you instigate the struggle or fight then there is no self defence claim.

Why thank you. I think I'm pretty too.

I would claim it was a typo Colpy but you seem so happy I'll just go with it. ;-)

Read what I said. I can use equal force to prevent theft from me...I can put hands on them, in fact, if I am executing a citizen's arrest I must put hands on them for it to be legally in effect.....they have a choice, escalate the situation, or not. My use of force can legally match theirs....up until the use of lethal force becomes necessary.

I need to read up on special circumstances like security guards confining in anticipation of police response in the case of shop lifting etc. I'll get back to this.

I didn't manufacture the stats, I used, in fact, the most anti-gun sources possible in the USA as sources.....and stats Canada in Canada.......If you bothered to check, I quoted my sources.

And I don't appreciate being called a liar.

An apology is expected.

It looks to me like you picked a few states and provinces not known for gun crime to build your stats. If that was your intent then it's misleading my friend.

Why not compare the places in Canada and the US of like population number that have high gun crime rates?

Sigh. We're talking about conventional criminal behaviour here....not intercine warfare. Gimme a break

Yeah Aurora and Bodie were mining towns. A good example of hard men taking the law into their own hands.

The Indians just happened to be in the wrong place, at home, at the wrong time, when whitey came a callin.

Seriously, if you aren't trying to fudge the numbers then I appologise for the inference. Let's get the real numbers and talk about reality. The problem isn't in rural Saskatchewan, it's in Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal and the large centres south of the border.

 

[Unforgiven]

PAY ATTENTION

I was born, and still live, in Saint John, New Brunswick.

I am not an American.:roll:

Still waiting for that apology.

Yeah I know that, I meant gun owners like yourself, only they live in the US. You misunderstood and I could have phrased that better.

 

[petros]

Unforgiven...don't worry . I forgive you.

Quoting Unforgiven Claiming someone has to go through inspection, training, certification to hold even the most basic of firearms is a joke that borders on and out right lie.

Quoting petros Exactly. You can have all the weapons you want but if aren't cool, calm, collected they are pretty much useless.

So what happens after you've emptied the chamber missing the intruder but pumped all 6 shots through the bedroom wall right into your kids room through flimsy drywall?
​

How many cases per year have innocent kids or adults been shot when somebody missed? Some even happen BLOCKS away from the incident.

Have you ever fired a weapon in fear? Yes or no? Why do crimes happen in broad daylight with hundreds op people around to help? Because those hundreds around are scared ****less. Your neighbour doesn't get out of bed or phone the cops when someone is stealing your car. Why? FEAR that's why.

There is no way in hell I'd ever let an amateur handle lethal weapons in my community, especially some jackass who think's he's John Wayne.

 

[petros]

Maybe I need to ask this again?

So what happens after you've emptied the chamber missing the intruder but pumped all 6 shots through the bedroom wall right into your kids room through flimsy drywall?

 

[DaSleeper]

Exactly. You can have all the weapons you want but if aren't cool, calm, collected they are pretty much useless.

So what happens after you've emptied the chamber missing the intruder but pumped all 6 shots through the bedroom wall right into your kids room through flimsy drywall?

This is why they make shotguns:smile:
With the proper ammunition it will not go through two layers of drywall and still hurt someone, and you don't need to be a marksman:smile:

 

[L Gilbert]

Please try and make some sense. I would give you the benefit of the doubt and simply assume you mean that no one vales a life less than some property but you have shown yourself to be a ding bat. So I will accept that you mean everyone vales their life more than what they own. It has nothing at all to do with the topic, or what I said, but I accept that you mean this ridiculous blabber.

Try to understand what people write then, Pilgrim. Dingbat? I'm just an amateur at that in comparison to you.
Nothing to do with the thread? That's why I said no-one said anything about it. But you brought it up, like most of the dogbarf you spew.

Yet I go out and spend my money on things like insurance to replace them if they are broken or stolen. I make sure there are copies of the very sentimental things we have like pictures. Not that anyone would be busting down my door to get that cherished picture of granny off the wall. :roll:

The TV the computers the jewelry all can be replaced should they get stolen simply by coughing up the deductible. So I have to say that you're talking out your ass.

lol And yuou oughtta know about babbling out the ass. People steal the craziest things, but I guess you wouldn't know that. If a criminal has time they sort through stuff in a house. If no5t, they grab crap and run. But, again, I guess that wouldn't occir to a peabrained needledick like you.

What a stupid thing to say. Not only is it a stupid and backward generalization, but I have to say that you thinking you of all people know the minds of all the men and women in the world is typical of the pompous wind bag you have shown you are.

So now you can speak for them? lmao I have a word for you, hypocrite. It's "hypocrite".

Perhaps the difference between you and someone who values the things they own is that you're too cheap to get a copy of wedding pictures, baby pictures and put the irreplaceable things in a safe deposit box.

Ahh, now you ASSume you know what we have and what we don't have. :roll:Get a life, you moron.

Yeah sure you would. I bet you would cry first then pee.

I cry for onions. And pee? Yep, we have a toilet for peeing.

heh heh If that's the case, what makes you think you have something that needs to be protected with a side arm? Home insurance is hardly expensive. Well maybe if you have proved to be an idiot in the eyes of insurance companies, it gets a little pricey. You aren't an idiot are you?

The sidearm itself is expensive. It's insured. Like I said, some people can't afford insurance. But I guess that's beyond your tiny little mind to comprehend, too.

You understand that you have to have insurance on vehicles don't you? Yeah my car is insured. You have to be a real bloody idiot to drive anything without insurance.

Yep. But people do anyway.

Of course the point is that there is nothing other than your own life or the lives of those you are responsible for that is worth more than someone else's life. So shooting someone over a computer or other possession is clearly sociopath and makes you at the very least as big a problem as the jerk who would break in to steal it.

If this is your argument for guns you do more for the anti-gun lobby than any finger wagging soap box jockey.

roflmao
Whatta poor little putz. People like you make the world a funny place with all your ASSumptions.

 

[L Gilbert]

I don't think ..........

Good point.

 

[L Gilbert]

Unforgiven; Again you make the argument that if someone is taking your crufty old vcr that it's your life that is threatened and you should have the right to blow their head off.

No. Please read again. I said I have the right to prevent them stealing my crusty old VCR, my discarded shoes, or my dirty underwear. If they wish to resort to violence in an attempt to steal from me, then I have a right to defend myself. Whether that exactly fits the law would be determined by a judge and jury......but it is my right.


No one has ever said you can't or should not be allowed to defend yourself if your life is threatened. That's written into the law as self defense.

Lethal force can only be used "if you or someone else is in immediate danger of death or grievous bodily harm" I taught this to armoured car guards when I was firearms trainer......

But until quite recently (I mean a couple of decades.....) the law was you could use any force necessary to prevent a crime being commited. Much more sensible.

You don't have the right to shoot someone for stealing something from you. That's insane. As in sane as thinking that if you feel threatened, that you have some right to shoot someone. You don't have that right at all. You have to actually be threatened and as a reasonable person, expect that your life is in danger.

It is not at all insane to allow one to use force to prevent criminal acts.....and if that act escalates to a point where you are in danger of "death or grievous bodily harm", then lethal force can be used.

This bull about everyone being armed makes for polite society is just that. When the West was being settled back in the early 19th century, everyone had guns and about the last thing it was, was polite

Wrong again. Just take a look at the stats at the beginning of this thread........the comparison between violence rates in the Canadian west, where our gov't has enforced a gun-fearing cultiure.......and rates in the American west, where everyone owns a .45, a lot of people carry them, and assault rifles are perfectly OK....well it is illuminating.

BTW, in the 19th century you were much more likely to be murdered in the "civilized" cities of the US eastern seaboard than on the western frontier. Historical fact.

Either way, the FACT remains that this gun registration is simply useless in protecting anyone, almost completely useless to catching the gang members and bank robbers, makes criminals out of farmers, ranchers, target shooters, trapshooters, collectors, etc., and it unecessarily costs us billions.

 

[L Gilbert]

Question: What is the average response time when calling 911 in Toronto or any big center....and how long does the burglar have to get out of your house when you call...And ....what do you expect him to do if he thinks you can describe him to the police???

Back when Kelowna was only about 50,000 people, it took the cops 35 minutes give or take a few, to arrive at the alley behind our apartment where my wife was woken up by a drunk yelling at a girl. She called the cops thinking he was going to get violent. She waited for 5 minutes and yelled that she'd called the cops. The guy left, the girl came into her apartment and the cops showed up a half hour later. But, I bet they'd have shown up in less than 2 minutes if she'd popped a paperbag while on the phone with them.

 

[L Gilbert]

I think in court a lot would depend on the perpetrator. If he breaks in and he's unarmed, I think you could be in hot water if you shot him. However if he is armed with a gun, a knife or a crowbar, I don't think any self respecting judge would have much sympathy for him. On the other hand if he were to come into your bedroom and you shot him while you were startled and still half asleep, I don't think much would happen to you.

Of course it depends upon the circumstances. An unarmed dood comes in here, he'd be kicked in the ass, booted out of the house, and stuck under the bucket of my loader till the cops showed up. Someone with a firearm would be shot, preferably in a spot that would result in a LOT of long-term pain, like a knee, elbow, or a kidney. I dissuaded a bear from raiding our fruit trees with 2 rounds of salt from the 12 gauge in the backside once. We have had dogs since so bears aren't a concern.

 

[Unforgiven]

Try to understand what people write then, Pilgrim. Dingbat? I'm just an amateur at that in comparison to you.
Nothing to do with the thread? That's why I said no-one said anything about it. But you brought it up, like most of the dogbarf you spew.

lol And yuou oughtta know about babbling out the ass. People steal the craziest things, but I guess you wouldn't know that. If a criminal has time they sort through stuff in a house. If no5t, they grab crap and run. But, again, I guess that wouldn't occir to a peabrained needledick like you.

So now you can speak for them? lmao I have a word for you, hypocrite. It's "hypocrite".
Ahh, now you ASSume you know what we have and what we don't have. :roll:Get a life, you moron.

I cry for onions. And pee? Yep, we have a toilet for peeing.

The sidearm itself is expensive. It's insured. Like I said, some people can't afford insurance. But I guess that's beyond your tiny little mind to comprehend, too.

Yep. But people do anyway.

roflmao
Whatta poor little putz. People like you make the world a funny place with all your ASSumptions.

How lame to post as your husband. As nothing in your post has anything to do with the topic, there is nothing to address.

 

[L Gilbert]

PAY ATTENTION

I was born, and still live, in Saint John, New Brunswick.

I am not an American.:roll:

Still waiting for that apology.

Don't hold your hand under your ass waiting for it, Colpy. The moron obviously believes all the BS that people like Alan Rock spew.

 

[L Gilbert]

How many cases per year have innocent kids or adults been shot when somebody missed? Some even happen BLOCKS away from the incident.

Have you ever fired a weapon in fear? Yes or no? Why do crimes happen in broad daylight with hundreds op people around to help? Because those hundreds around are scared ****less. Your neighbour doesn't get out of bed or phone the cops when someone is stealing your car. Why? FEAR that's why.

There is no way in hell I'd ever let an amateur handle lethal weapons in my community, especially some jackass who think's he's John Wayne.

lol And the criminals are amateurs. That's why innocent bystanders get shot a lot of the time.
Speaking of fear, I bet most people are afraid they'd be convicted of something if they did try to defend their family or someone else. With the way the courts are these days, it's a damned reasonable fear.

 

[L Gilbert]

I'll never forget the time my buddy thought he'd teach his wife to shoot. He stood behind her and put his head on her shoulder to "help" her aim.

He is now missing a tooth and has a 5cm scar on his forehead.

The idiot forgot to tell her about kick. lmao A friend of mine tried my shotgun and had his nose behind his thumb when he fired. But I did tell him it would kick. lol It didn't even bleed but it sure hurt. lol

 

[L Gilbert]

Drunks kill 10,000 per year simply by being in public with an auto.

What a wonderful idea to arm them too.

We have a couple cops out here that like to drink. They have firearms. They are trained in the use. But they still like to go out to the range and have a few while they shoot.

 

[L Gilbert]

How many suicides were with smuggled or illegal weapons? If access were easier what would the impact be on suicides?

If we had a sensible society rather than a kneejerk one, would there be as many suicides?