Gun Control is Completely Useless.

[Niflmir]

Yep, I've come around to thinking you're probably right about that, because it simply can't be done, anybody who really wants a particular gun can get one. All gun control can do is penalize legitimate sensible gun owners like you and me.

Well, I don't know about that. Certainly some types of "gun control" are completely useless, but there are plenty of forms of gun control (without the quotes) which make a lot of sense:

1. Not selling guns to minors.
2. Not selling guns to people with (certain types of) criminal records.
3. Not selling certain types of guns (e.g. automatics, things over a certain caliber).
4. Not selling explosive munitions/firearms.
5. Limiting where a gun can be used.
6. Limiting who can carry a gun around freely.

Those things are all fairly uncontroversial. To put the long gun registry into perspective, one should consider that the police should need a warrant before they look somebody up in it. They did not, and the police ended up abusing the privilege and doing things with the information which were in fact illegal. Then these stories ended up being the only things that the public knew about the registry, coupled to the very public large price tag, and we have something which can hardly be called "control" and can certainly be called harmful.

 

[bluebyrd35]

There is a difference between "gun-control" and the long gun registry. One can skew the stats re population but it still comes down to how available guns are.

To quote the one or two legitimate killings in self defense over many years, as a reason to make guns available over the counter is ludicrous. No consideration is given to how many children are killed every year by those assessible guns. Many consider such deaths as collateral damage!! It has been said suicides will find other ways......maybe that is so at the moment, but we are learning to watch for the warning signs of impending suicides. If the weapon was not so available, perhaps some preventive measures could be devised. The stats on how many are shot by the very guns they keep for self-protection are rather significant as well.

For those who like stats, please don't use slums, gangs, or overcrowding as excuses. The guns are available and under stress are used. Hard to use what is not available.

Try to refrain from attacking me and keep to countering the gist of the post. Yes, I am female, yes I prefer peace and yes I prefer reason to slash and burn arguments.

 

[DaSleeper]

And the point of this ramble is?????

 

[Niflmir]

There is a difference between "gun-control" and the long gun registry.

Sure, just like there is a difference between a gun and a trigger. For instance, my computer has a trigger... but it is not a gun, or is it?

Anyways, the long gun registry had its uses, and it had its potential for abuse. The latter won the day. Its uses are primarily associated with tracking stolen firearms, and double punishing those criminals. Its abuses were the targeting of gun owners without reason for inspections and hitting them with minor infractions and causing them to lose all their guns and the possibility of owning guns again.

The latter could have been avoided if the police needed a warrant to access the gun registry. Which is a sensible rule for a society where privacy is supposed to be important.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

What is astounding is how many split hair type arguments are presented to justify gun ownership, and usage.

Well, there are plenty of guns floating around now. So not sure just how effective "gun control" is. ( maybe as effective as birth control with religious types. )

IF Zimmerman did not have a gun......the young boy would still be alive. One does not even need to know math to figure that one out.

what is it about guns that get so many impassioned about them and simply "must " have them??? Or has the culture of fear created this atmosphere and gun ownership is part of the phenomena. ?? This culture creates the "fight back" kind of attitude and makes those that choose other means seem lesser somehow. The use of the word COWARD comes to mind. when one chooses other means to either defend themselves or avoid situations where that might be necessary. Black and white mentality .

 

[Niflmir]

What is astounding is how many split hair type arguments are presented to justify gun ownership, and usage.

Well, there are plenty of guns floating around now. So not sure just how effective "gun control" is. ( maybe as effective as birth control with religious types. )

IF Zimmerman did not have a gun......the young boy would still be alive. One does not even need to know math to figure that one out.

what is it about guns that get so many impassioned about them and simply "must " have them??? Or has the culture of fear created this atmosphere and gun ownership is part of the phenomena. ?? This culture creates the "fight back" kind of attitude and makes those that choose other means seem lesser somehow. The use of the word COWARD comes to mind. when one chooses other means to either defend themselves or avoid situations where that might be necessary. Black and white mentality .

Move to Europe.

In principle, I can go out and buy a handgun here in the Netherlands, but it is such a pain in the butt that nobody does it. There is still gun violence mind you, but for the most part people are happy with the way things are.

People who have shot a firearm are the exception over here.

 

[Colpy]

IF Zimmerman did not have a gun......the young boy would still be alive. One does not even need to know math to figure that one out.

what is it about guns that get so many impassioned about them and simply "must " have them??? Or has the culture of fear created this atmosphere and gun ownership is part of the phenomena. ?? This culture creates the "fight back" kind of attitude and makes those that choose other means seem lesser somehow. The use of the word COWARD comes to mind. when one chooses other means to either defend themselves or avoid situations where that might be necessary. Black and white mentality .

If Zimmerman did not have a gun, he might be dead. Go read through the thread since our last discussion, as info becomes availible, the entire thing swings to Zimmerman's side......

It is NOT fear, not even close.

It is freedom, liberty if you will. Indeed, it is the oldest and most important of our rights. It is visceral and instinctual.

An armed man can not be oppressed with impunity.

Thus, for those brave enough to confront oppression, either personal or political, arms mean they always have the tools to strike back, to make the oppressor pay, to defend and enforce their own independence.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Move to Europe.

In principle, I can go out and buy a handgun here in the Netherlands, but it is such a pain in the butt that nobody does it. There is still gun violence mind you, but for the most part people are happy with the way things are.

People who have shot a firearm are the exception over here.

good point. (good post too) :smile:

I AM considering a move to Europe. Sort of a back up plan. So far Canada is not as crazy as its neighbor ...but that could change as shooting incidents begin to increase.

Love your part of the world. :smile:

If Zimmerman did not have a gun, he might be dead.

so what you seem to be saying is that it is "better" that Martin is dead over Zimmerman. That certainly seems biased.

I think it might be better if the courts decide. ( but then Zimmerman is not even arrested )

IF he had an illness and could not do the job properly..........he is responsible for making the wrong decision in taking such a post.

Me thinks that you might defend the one with a gun.........regardless of the circumstances. Hope I am wrong.

If you are going to bring up liberty etc etc , then it might be wise to apply it to EVERYONE. A young kids life was aborted much too soon.

As I asked on the other thread. Why KILL him. Why not just injure him ........IF he Had to use a lethal weapon??

None of this makes any sense ..... and we have no idea what mindset Zimmerman had when he followed the kid.

 

[Niflmir]

good point. (good post too) :smile:

I AM considering a move to Europe. Sort of a back up plan. So far Canada is not as crazy as its neighbor ...but that could change as shooting incidents begin to increase.

Love your part of the world. :smile:

Actually I grew up in Canada, so that is my part of the world over where you are.

Your average Canadian seems fairly conservative compared to the typical person in Europe. At least when it comes to healthcare, education, gun control, justice, immigration, nudity censorship, alcohol and other things.

But yeah, most Europeans just don't see the allure of guns.

 

[bluebyrd35]

And the point of this ramble is?????

My post is a statement of how I see the subject. Perfectly understandable unless one has a comprehension problem.

 

[DaSleeper]

IF Zimmerman did not have a gun......the young boy would still be alive. One does not even need to know math to figure that one out.

If Zimmerman did not have a gun, he might be dead. Go read through the thread since our last discussion, as info becomes availible, the entire thing swings to Zimmerman's side......

It is NOT fear, not even close.

It is freedom, liberty if you will. Indeed, it is the oldest and most important of our rights. It is visceral and instinctual.

An armed man can not be oppressed with impunity.

Thus, for those brave enough to confront oppression, either personal or political, arms mean they always have the tools to strike back, to make the oppressor pay, to defend and enforce their own independence.

Interesting how antis will even use the instance of someone possibly protecting himself with a firearm as a reason for gun control:roll:

 

[L Gilbert]

What is astounding is how many split hair type arguments are presented to justify gun ownership, and usage.

Well, there are plenty of guns floating around now. So not sure just how effective "gun control" is. ( maybe as effective as birth control with religious types. )

IF Zimmerman did not have a gun......the young boy would still be alive. One does not even need to know math to figure that one out.

He'd likely have run over the kid or had a bat or something just as deadly.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

He'd likely have run over the kid or had a bat or something just as deadly.

I suspect you are totally correct . That goes to the core of the issue which most refuse to address.

to repeat: Zimmerman did not have to KILL Martin. (IF it were self defense) He could have injured him to incapacitate him. )

It did NOT HAVE TO BE THIS LETHAL...........assuming Zimmerman knew how to use a gun smartly.

Back to the title of this thread:

Gun control is completely useless

...........Makes one ask : WHAT gun control??? (given what happens with monotonous frequency )

 

[DaSleeper]

Some people watch too many movies.....:roll:

If you ever have to shoot someone in self defence....shoot to kill!

 

[L Gilbert]

Well, I'd sooner smack an unarmed kid with the gun than kill him.

 

[DaSleeper]

Well, I'd sooner smack an unarmed kid with the gun than kill him.

Even when that unarmed kid is sitting on top of you punching you in the face?????
If you just try to smack someone with a gun, you deserve to be shot with your own gun!!!

 

[L Gilbert]

Even when that unarmed kid is sitting on top of you punching you in the face?????

Depends upon the situation.

If you just try to smack someone with a gun, you deserve to be shot with your own gun!!!

lol Throw a punch at me and find out how it goes, idiot.

Like I said, I'd prefer not to have to kill anyone. Show me where that attitude has anything wrong with it.

 

[DaSleeper]

Depends upon the situation.
lol Throw a punch at me and find out how it goes, idiot.

Like I said, I'd prefer not to have to kill anyone. Show me where that attitude has anything wrong with it.

The first rule if you carry a firearms for defence against wild animals or people is never to shoot to maim, only to kill...
When I carried my 44Magnum while prospecting, if a bear would charge me, I wouldn't even think of shooting a warning shot, because by the time you are ready for a second shot the bear would be all over you.
If you think a human attacking you is different....your living in a dream world....wake up for f_ck's sake!

 

[L Gilbert]

The first rule if you carry a firearms for defence against wild animals or people is never to shoot to maim, only to kill...

That may be your rule as a bloodthirsty sort with no respect for life, but it isn't mine.

When I carried my 44Magnum while prospecting, if a bear would charge me, I wouldn't even think of shooting a warning shot, because by the time you are ready for a second shot the bear would be all over you.
If you think a human attacking you is different....your living in a dream world....wake up for f_ck's sake!

So a 17 year old kid is a charging bear? Grow up for f'uck's sake.

I'll tell you one thing for sure. I sure as hell wouldn't go hunting with a trigger-happy schmuck like you Sleepy

 

[taxslave]

What is astounding is how many split hair type arguments are presented to justify gun ownership, and usage.

Well, there are plenty of guns floating around now. So not sure just how effective "gun control" is. ( maybe as effective as birth control with religious types. )

IF Zimmerman did not have a gun......the young boy would still be alive. One does not even need to know math to figure that one out.

what is it about guns that get so many impassioned about them and simply "must " have them??? Or has the culture of fear created this atmosphere and gun ownership is part of the phenomena. ?? This culture creates the "fight back" kind of attitude and makes those that choose other means seem lesser somehow. The use of the word COWARD comes to mind. when one chooses other means to either defend themselves or avoid situations where that might be necessary. Black and white mentality .

WHy is it that you keep mixing gun ownership with the long gun registry? The soon to be removed long gun registry was a poorly thought out, expensive vote buyer in the cities with no basis in reality. All it did was make criminals out of ordinary people and/or cost them a lot of money for no reason. The billion or so spent on it did not remove ONE handgun or assault rifle from the hands of criminals.

BTW did you know that handguns have had a mandatory registration since the mid 1930s? Notice how well that has worked out? Even you could probably buy an unregistered handgun in under 1 hour in any city.