Gun Control is Completely Useless.

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,133
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Washington DC
Well, I have deep amusement for people who think law abiding gun owners are criminals just because they own firearms.
You'll have to take it up with one of them.
Do you think firearms corrupt alberta duck hunters and cause them to commit inner city crime in toronto?
Of course not. That's stupid.
I'd ask how you propose to get the guns away from criminals without imposing a regime that would make East Germany look laissez-faire, but I doubt that you have an answer.
I don't. But you seem to be one of those "No guns for criminals!" people.

I have a series of proposals to reduce gun violence without banning guns, but nobody on this board's interested in them. You're all just interested in screaming your hatred at "themmuns." You don't give two shits about gun violence, and frankly, neither does Hoid.
 

JamesBondo

House Member
Mar 3, 2012
4,158
37
48
But you seem to be one of those "No guns for criminals!" people.

I don't know what the hell you are rambling about. Probably because you like to make shit up.


I have a series of proposals to reduce gun violence without banning guns, but nobody on this board's interested in them. You're all just interested in screaming your hatred at "themmuns."

Again, I don't know what the hell a 'themmuns' is. Please just speak like a human being.

You don't give two shits about gun violence

Your a big piece of dog shit to say that about anyone. How can you be such a terrible person.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
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70
Saint John, N.B.
Implications of Canada’s May 2020 “assault-style” gun ban

Officers will need to follow the impact of the order-in-council closely

May 20, 2020By Rob Welsman
Photo: Getty Images
Less than two weeks after the mass homicide in Nova Scotia that left 22 innocent people dead and three others injured, the Liberal government passed an overnight ban on approximately 1,500 different types of firearms, including a variety of semi-automatic rifles whose capacities are limited to five cartridges. Although it was described as an “assault-style” weapon ban during the announcement, its legal implications appear to be much broader. For example, some manual action firearms — including certain bolt action and single-shot rifles — met the ban criteria as well. Also included were a select number of .22 rimfire rifles, some shotguns, as well as many large-bore, long-range target guns.
Immediately following its passage, debate began in legal circles as to whether the order-in-council (OIC) may have inadvertently banned some 12- and 10-gauge shotguns with removable chokes (due to the new 20-mm bore diameter limit). Minister of Public Safety Bill Blair responded by stating that the OIC was not intended to include any hunting or sporting shotguns, but in the weeks following the OIC passage, some previously non-restricted shotguns have been moved to the prohibited classification, not due to bore diameter, but instead because of an aesthetic similarity to the AR-15. Additionally, the classification of some centre-fire rifles that were not explicitly listed in the ban have had their legal classification changed as they have been re-examined and classified to meet the definition of an AR-15 variant.
Most patrol rifles in Canada now designated as prohibited

Prior to May 1, most of the patrol rifles in use in Canada were classified as restricted firearms and those models could be purchased privately by anyone holding a restricted firearms license. These privately-owned guns, however, could only be sold with five round magazines.
With the passage of the new OIC, all private sales of these firearms have stopped. The most common firearm in Canada that appears on the list of banned rifles is the AR-15 (Armalite Rifle model 15) and its variants, which also happens to be the most common type of patrol rifle in Canada for general duty/patrol use, as well as for many specialty teams.



During its time as a restricted firearm, officers who wanted to frequently practice their patrol carbine skills could purchase their own AR-15 and practice on their own time, beyond the once or twice a year mandated qualification their police service provides. These officers must now be aware that such privately owned firearms are prohibited and can no longer be trained with.
Because the ban goes beyond the AR-15, any Canadian police officer who owns firearms, AR-15 or not, should carefully review the list of banned firearms and the ban criteria so as to avoid being in criminal possession at the conclusion of the two-year amnesty. The prohibited firearms must now be kept within the confines of the owner’s residence and then disposed of within the amnesty period. After that time, criminal penalties are applicable — peace officer status or not. Anyone who did not already own one of these firearms prior to May 1, 2020 is not able to acquire one of these newly-prohibited firearms.
With the private ownership option gone, officers will be limited in their ability to seek out additional training from private companies who offer, or at one time offered, patrol carbine training. With this new legal framework, it will be a difficult proposition for an officer to get approval from their department to take a department-owned carbine out of service to go to outside training that hasn’t been reviewed and evaluated by the department. Permission by the department to attend private training and to use department-issued equipment could be viewed as an endorsement of the training by the police service, which is something that many liability-aware police services may be understandably hesitant to approve. In addition, firearms trainers, many of whom are private citizens but with former law enforcement or military backgrounds, will be unable to use for teaching the very firearms platforms that they instruct on. In the past, privately-owned patrol carbines removed these road-blocks, and now officers will be much more limited in their training options.

The single shot Ruger No. 1, chambered in .460 Weatherby Magnum, is one of the unexpected firearms now prohibited under the May 1 order-in-council.
Photo: Ruger.com

Impact on departmental qualifications

The ban may have implications on firearm qualifications with departmental-owned patrol rifles as well. Now that privately-owned AR-15’s can no longer be taken to public ranges, there is debate within the firearms community as to whether public ranges (typically run by civilian volunteer board of directors or private businesses) should cater their ranges to allow these types of firearms to be used, department-owned or otherwise. If the vast majority of their range members will no longer be using these banned firearms, they may not accommodate police services to use theirs. Without significant capital investment by departments into these public ranges to preserve training space, or the development of their own private government ranges, departments may lose appropriate space for these types of firearms qualifications.
Education, buy-back and possible grandfathering

Now that the AR-15 and other affected firearms are prohibited, officers who frequent their local shooting range, hunting field or back-country shooting locale may be pressed into on-the-spot public education when members of the gun community approach them to inquire about specifics of the OIC.
In the course of police business, officers may encounter gun owners using their newly prohibited firearms in ignorance of the new law. A farmer shooting their Mini-14 ranch rifle at coyotes on their cattle range may not have heard their rifle is now prohibited, especially because of how quickly the ban was enacted. As many of the firearms on the list were previously non-restricted (excluding the AR-15), there is no way to specifically locate and inform owners of these guns of the prohibition, aside from a generalized blanket letter notification to all firearms license holders.
Gun owners whose rifles fall within the 10,000 joules of muzzle energy prohibition, but are not explicitly named by model on the OIC, will need to do their own research to determine if the particular calibre and barrel length of their firearm pushes it over the 10,000-joule limit. Owners of single shot .700 Nitro Express and .460 Weatherby Magnum hunting guns will not find those calibres expressly described in the OIC list of banned rifles, but they violate the 10,000-joule rule and make them liable to possession of a prohibited firearm at the end of the amnesty. Additionally, officers need to be careful not to apply the OIC too broadly — there are many non-restricted and restricted semi-automatic, 5-round rifles that function similarly to the AR-15 and have similar aesthetics, and yet they are not included in this ban. Which of these firearms are considered a variant, and which are not, continues to evolve on a daily basis as the ban criteria are fully implemented.
During the announcement of the ban, the government noted there would be mechanisms for disposal of the firearms that will have to be addressed via follow-up legislation. One such avenue mentioned was a buy-back, similar to what the New Zealand government recently conducted, with questionable owner compliance. As weapons are involved, this will likely be a police-led process of collection, lodging, filing and destruction. With the number of firearms involved (in excess of at least 105,000, according to a government official at a technical briefing following the announcement of the ban), it is anticipated that there will be significant labour and logistical hurdles involved for already busy and cash-strapped police services.
Initially there had also been mention of possible grandfathering — where current owners would be able keep possession of the prohibited firearms they own — but they would never be able to use them again. This option was initially listed on the Canadian Firearms Program public website but has since been removed.
An exception in the field

There is an important exception on newly prohibited firearm use during the two-year amnesty period officers should be aware of which allows an individual to legally have one of these newly prohibited guns in the field. An individual whose newly prohibited firearm was previously non-restricted can use that firearm for hunting — so long as the individual is an Indigenous person exercising treaty rights to hunt or is a sustenance hunter. There does not appear to be any allowance in the law for such an individual to transport the firearm for sighting in at a range or to take it for repair at a gunsmith in preparation for hunting, however, so the exception appears to be limited to specific hunting activity.
Careful study of the new law is key

Due to the widespread use of these newly prohibited firearms in the Canadian gun community, police and other enforcement officers will need to closely review the newly passed OIC and any subsequent follow-up legislation that the government has indicated will be forthcoming. Further anticipated changes as announced by the Liberal government include potential prohibitions on private handgun ownership, and changes to storage regulations. These changes impact not only private gun ownership among officers but also their enforcement actions as well.
It is also possible the OIC may be amended or repealed altogether. A public petition to the House of Commons, e-2574, has been set up to oppose the ban, and one Canadian gun advocacy group has launched a charter challenge in court. With the law evolving so quickly, officers will need to follow any changes closely to ensure they apply the law correctly both to themselves and the public they serve.
https://www.blueline.ca/implications-of-canadas-may-2020-assault-style-gun-ban/



From Blueline, the magazine for law enforcement officers. Note they understand how far over the line this law has gone.

1. It has not passed Parliamentary process, and it will never go before Parliament. Good-bye democracy.

2. It ain't about "assault rifles" or even semi-automatic "military style" firearms. It is about stealing as many weapons from Canadians as they can get away with. Or think they can.

3. They are lying. Everything the gov't has done on this file has been dishonest, and anti-democratic.

 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
Implications of Canada’s May 2020 “assault-style” gun ban

Officers will need to follow the impact of the order-in-council closely

May 20, 2020By Rob Welsman
Photo: Getty Images
Less than two weeks after the mass homicide in Nova Scotia that left 22 innocent people dead and three others injured, the Liberal government passed an overnight ban on approximately 1,500 different types of firearms, including a variety of semi-automatic rifles whose capacities are limited to five cartridges. Although it was described as an “assault-style” weapon ban during the announcement, its legal implications appear to be much broader.


That recent ban was a stupid knee jerk reaction by an often impetuous and stupid Prime Minister. Just a whole bunch of guns involved that had NOTHING to do with the death and mayhem of April 18.
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,133
9,423
113
Washington DC
That recent ban was a stupid knee jerk reaction by an often impetuous and stupid Prime Minister. Just a whole bunch of guns involved that had NOTHING to do with the death and mayhem of April 18.
Yep. That's why I say this is no longer about decreasing gun violence or gun crime, nor about gun control, but about usuns v. themmuns symbolism.
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
28,499
8,098
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B.C.
Implications of Canada’s May 2020 “assault-style” gun ban

Officers will need to follow the impact of the order-in-council closely

May 20, 2020By Rob Welsman
Photo: Getty Images
Less than two weeks after the mass homicide in Nova Scotia that left 22 innocent people dead and three others injured, the Liberal government passed an overnight ban on approximately 1,500 different types of firearms, including a variety of semi-automatic rifles whose capacities are limited to five cartridges. Although it was described as an “assault-style” weapon ban during the announcement, its legal implications appear to be much broader. For example, some manual action firearms — including certain bolt action and single-shot rifles — met the ban criteria as well. Also included were a select number of .22 rimfire rifles, some shotguns, as well as many large-bore, long-range target guns.
Immediately following its passage, debate began in legal circles as to whether the order-in-council (OIC) may have inadvertently banned some 12- and 10-gauge shotguns with removable chokes (due to the new 20-mm bore diameter limit). Minister of Public Safety Bill Blair responded by stating that the OIC was not intended to include any hunting or sporting shotguns, but in the weeks following the OIC passage, some previously non-restricted shotguns have been moved to the prohibited classification, not due to bore diameter, but instead because of an aesthetic similarity to the AR-15. Additionally, the classification of some centre-fire rifles that were not explicitly listed in the ban have had their legal classification changed as they have been re-examined and classified to meet the definition of an AR-15 variant.
Most patrol rifles in Canada now designated as prohibited

Prior to May 1, most of the patrol rifles in use in Canada were classified as restricted firearms and those models could be purchased privately by anyone holding a restricted firearms license. These privately-owned guns, however, could only be sold with five round magazines.
With the passage of the new OIC, all private sales of these firearms have stopped. The most common firearm in Canada that appears on the list of banned rifles is the AR-15 (Armalite Rifle model 15) and its variants, which also happens to be the most common type of patrol rifle in Canada for general duty/patrol use, as well as for many specialty teams.



During its time as a restricted firearm, officers who wanted to frequently practice their patrol carbine skills could purchase their own AR-15 and practice on their own time, beyond the once or twice a year mandated qualification their police service provides. These officers must now be aware that such privately owned firearms are prohibited and can no longer be trained with.
Because the ban goes beyond the AR-15, any Canadian police officer who owns firearms, AR-15 or not, should carefully review the list of banned firearms and the ban criteria so as to avoid being in criminal possession at the conclusion of the two-year amnesty. The prohibited firearms must now be kept within the confines of the owner’s residence and then disposed of within the amnesty period. After that time, criminal penalties are applicable — peace officer status or not. Anyone who did not already own one of these firearms prior to May 1, 2020 is not able to acquire one of these newly-prohibited firearms.
With the private ownership option gone, officers will be limited in their ability to seek out additional training from private companies who offer, or at one time offered, patrol carbine training. With this new legal framework, it will be a difficult proposition for an officer to get approval from their department to take a department-owned carbine out of service to go to outside training that hasn’t been reviewed and evaluated by the department. Permission by the department to attend private training and to use department-issued equipment could be viewed as an endorsement of the training by the police service, which is something that many liability-aware police services may be understandably hesitant to approve. In addition, firearms trainers, many of whom are private citizens but with former law enforcement or military backgrounds, will be unable to use for teaching the very firearms platforms that they instruct on. In the past, privately-owned patrol carbines removed these road-blocks, and now officers will be much more limited in their training options.

The single shot Ruger No. 1, chambered in .460 Weatherby Magnum, is one of the unexpected firearms now prohibited under the May 1 order-in-council.
Photo: Ruger.com

Impact on departmental qualifications

The ban may have implications on firearm qualifications with departmental-owned patrol rifles as well. Now that privately-owned AR-15’s can no longer be taken to public ranges, there is debate within the firearms community as to whether public ranges (typically run by civilian volunteer board of directors or private businesses) should cater their ranges to allow these types of firearms to be used, department-owned or otherwise. If the vast majority of their range members will no longer be using these banned firearms, they may not accommodate police services to use theirs. Without significant capital investment by departments into these public ranges to preserve training space, or the development of their own private government ranges, departments may lose appropriate space for these types of firearms qualifications.
Education, buy-back and possible grandfathering

Now that the AR-15 and other affected firearms are prohibited, officers who frequent their local shooting range, hunting field or back-country shooting locale may be pressed into on-the-spot public education when members of the gun community approach them to inquire about specifics of the OIC.
In the course of police business, officers may encounter gun owners using their newly prohibited firearms in ignorance of the new law. A farmer shooting their Mini-14 ranch rifle at coyotes on their cattle range may not have heard their rifle is now prohibited, especially because of how quickly the ban was enacted. As many of the firearms on the list were previously non-restricted (excluding the AR-15), there is no way to specifically locate and inform owners of these guns of the prohibition, aside from a generalized blanket letter notification to all firearms license holders.
Gun owners whose rifles fall within the 10,000 joules of muzzle energy prohibition, but are not explicitly named by model on the OIC, will need to do their own research to determine if the particular calibre and barrel length of their firearm pushes it over the 10,000-joule limit. Owners of single shot .700 Nitro Express and .460 Weatherby Magnum hunting guns will not find those calibres expressly described in the OIC list of banned rifles, but they violate the 10,000-joule rule and make them liable to possession of a prohibited firearm at the end of the amnesty. Additionally, officers need to be careful not to apply the OIC too broadly — there are many non-restricted and restricted semi-automatic, 5-round rifles that function similarly to the AR-15 and have similar aesthetics, and yet they are not included in this ban. Which of these firearms are considered a variant, and which are not, continues to evolve on a daily basis as the ban criteria are fully implemented.
During the announcement of the ban, the government noted there would be mechanisms for disposal of the firearms that will have to be addressed via follow-up legislation. One such avenue mentioned was a buy-back, similar to what the New Zealand government recently conducted, with questionable owner compliance. As weapons are involved, this will likely be a police-led process of collection, lodging, filing and destruction. With the number of firearms involved (in excess of at least 105,000, according to a government official at a technical briefing following the announcement of the ban), it is anticipated that there will be significant labour and logistical hurdles involved for already busy and cash-strapped police services.
Initially there had also been mention of possible grandfathering — where current owners would be able keep possession of the prohibited firearms they own — but they would never be able to use them again. This option was initially listed on the Canadian Firearms Program public website but has since been removed.
An exception in the field

There is an important exception on newly prohibited firearm use during the two-year amnesty period officers should be aware of which allows an individual to legally have one of these newly prohibited guns in the field. An individual whose newly prohibited firearm was previously non-restricted can use that firearm for hunting — so long as the individual is an Indigenous person exercising treaty rights to hunt or is a sustenance hunter. There does not appear to be any allowance in the law for such an individual to transport the firearm for sighting in at a range or to take it for repair at a gunsmith in preparation for hunting, however, so the exception appears to be limited to specific hunting activity.
Careful study of the new law is key

Due to the widespread use of these newly prohibited firearms in the Canadian gun community, police and other enforcement officers will need to closely review the newly passed OIC and any subsequent follow-up legislation that the government has indicated will be forthcoming. Further anticipated changes as announced by the Liberal government include potential prohibitions on private handgun ownership, and changes to storage regulations. These changes impact not only private gun ownership among officers but also their enforcement actions as well.
It is also possible the OIC may be amended or repealed altogether. A public petition to the House of Commons, e-2574, has been set up to oppose the ban, and one Canadian gun advocacy group has launched a charter challenge in court. With the law evolving so quickly, officers will need to follow any changes closely to ensure they apply the law correctly both to themselves and the public they serve.
https://www.blueline.ca/implications-of-canadas-may-2020-assault-style-gun-ban/



From Blueline, the magazine for law enforcement officers. Note they understand how far over the line this law has gone.

1. It has not passed Parliamentary process, and it will never go before Parliament. Good-bye democracy.

2. It ain't about "assault rifles" or even semi-automatic "military style" firearms. It is about stealing as many weapons from Canadians as they can get away with. Or think they can.

3. They are lying. Everything the gov't has done on this file has been dishonest, and anti-democratic.

Only on this file ?
 

JamesBondo

House Member
Mar 3, 2012
4,158
37
48
Yep. That's why I say this is no longer about decreasing gun violence or gun crime, nor about gun control, but about usuns v. themmuns symbolism.

You said "no longer..."

When was this "about decreasing gun violence or gun crime, nor about gun control"?

--------------------

Also, I had to look up "themuns" to discover that it is slang in Northern Ireland. Canada has many many subcultures, why would you say that they have all adopted culture from Northern Ireland when in fact their objections come from their own culture.
 

JamesBondo

House Member
Mar 3, 2012
4,158
37
48
It was revealed this week that three of the four guns – one handgun and two semi-automatic rifles – used last month by Nova Scotia mass murderer Gabriel Wortman were smuggled into Canada from the United States.

And the 4th was taken off the fallen Officer?
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
28,967
10,940
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Black Gun. Plastic Stock. Looks like an "Assault Style" rifle from the latest Ban (?) of more than 1500+ rifles or their variants. Shouldn't JT's Super Liberal Senses be tingling? Why isn't he dressing down that Police Officer in a Gender Neutral Manner about how no Canadian needs to own or use or see anything so frightening to their sensibilities? Can someone with more knowledge on the topic identify this firearm please 'cuz I've compared it to the quick reference chart which says it's an AK-47 but I'm doubting this:
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,133
9,423
113
Washington DC
To be fair, it's not just journalists. Down hereabouts, cops have shot people for having the following things in their hands:

Umbrella
Cane
Toilet plunger
Tripod
Hairbrush
The Holy Bible
Apron
Spatula
Mobile phone
Slice of pizza
Wii controller
Sandwich
Wallet
Keys
Prescription pill bottle
Bottle of beer
Ipod
Tattoo
Driver's license

and of course. . .

Hand
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
Black Gun. Plastic Stock. Looks like an "Assault Style" rifle from the latest Ban (?) of more than 1500+ rifles or their variants. Shouldn't JT's Super Liberal Senses be tingling? Why isn't he dressing down that Police Officer in a Gender Neutral Manner about how no Canadian needs to own or use or see anything so frightening to their sensibilities? Can someone with more knowledge on the topic identify this firearm please 'cuz I've compared it to the quick reference chart which says it's an AK-47 but I'm doubting this:


That would be a RCMP "Patrol Carbine" which is not, absolutely can not be, without a whisper of doubt, is not a "military style assault weapon. The RCMP are very clear on this.


It is, after all, fed from 30 round magazines.


The AR 15 military style assault weapons only have 5 round magazines.


That's how you can tell the difference.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
28,967
10,940
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
That would be a RCMP "Patrol Carbine" which is not, absolutely can not be, without a whisper of doubt, is not a "military style assault weapon. The RCMP are very clear on this.


It is, after all, fed from 30 round magazines.


The AR 15 military style assault weapons only have 5 round magazines.


That's how you can tell the difference.
So barrel length less than 18.5", magazine of more than 5 rounds, "semi-auto" and "full-auto" settings, telescopic 4-position buttstock, and is a variant of the M4 Carbine. That Police Officer didn't look like an Aboriginal in the act of subsistence hunting...How can this possibly be justified in Canada let alone even in the same zip code as Justin Trudeau??? How can a Canadian (I'm assuming that the police officer is a Canadian by the Maple Leaf on his vest near his belt-line?) be trusted with such a thing? Thank Christ That's a "Patrol Carbine" & NOT an "Assault Style" whatever he calls them....or I'd have to believe that Trudeau is a hypocrite in a "Do as I say & not as I do sort'a thing as laws and rules are just for the peasants!"


I learn something new here almost daily.