Governments spend too much on Seniors

[gerryh]

The Old Age Security (OAS) program is the cornerstone of Canada’s retirement income system.

.

So, you would want to remove the cornerstone. Do you know what a cornerstone is and the importance it holds?

Zzzzzeeeeee just checked in;
I can't believe that after 260 posts people here still don't know the difference between OAS and CPP !!!

Man there must be a lot of dumbos here..eh !! Easterners by chance???

everybody here does, why? You still haven't figured it out? Go see your mommy and daddy and I'm sure they'll be able to explain it to you in simple terms.

 

[tibear]

Zzzzzeeeeee just checked in;
I can't believe that after 260 posts people here still don't know the difference between OAS and CPP !!!

Man there must be a lot of dumbos here..eh !! Easterners by chance???

AND that they stand on their soapbox and call anyone that disagrees with them an idiot.

It's one thing to debate differing opinions based on fact but when it is clear that you don't know what you're talking about and calling everyone else names, then it doesn't reflect to highly on the screamer....right Cliffy?

 

[Cliffy]

Cliffy, you're as bad as Petros because you don't know what OAS is. Directly from the OAS pamphlet:
The Old Age Security (OAS) program is the cornerstone of Canada’s retirement income system.

I only hope that your would be opened now that you see what the OAS plan is in black in white.

Where do you think general revenue comes from? Taxes are only part of the equation. Much of it comes from investments from trading Canada on the stock exchange. Look up the Corporation of Canada on the NY stock exchange. What do you think Canada's assets are that they are trading?

 

[JLM]

No surprise but I believe the exact opposite. In my life I have learned that I'm part of a great country that requires that every citizen needs to do their part. Work as hard as you can, pay your share of taxes, take care of those less fortunate than yourself, don't rely on the government to take care of you and not to take what doesn't belong to you.

Pretty well done all that and paid pretty well every conceivable tax for 50 years and haven't relied on too many services until this year (I was hospitalized for 10 days for the first time in 50 years) have never drawn compo or U.I.C. or welfare, so don't feel too bad about accepting the O.A.P. I've also helped some who are less fortunate. So what's your beef?

 

[Cliffy]

AND that they stand on their soapbox and call anyone that disagrees with them an idiot.

It's one thing to debate differing opinions based on fact but when it is clear that you don't know what you're talking about and calling everyone else names, then it doesn't reflect to highly on the screamer....right Cliffy?

You are the one going on about the OAS being a burden for over a year. And I did not call you an idiot. I said you needed a blow job and that you sounded like a broken record.

 

[JLM]

Zzzzzeeeeee just checked in;
I can't believe that after 260 posts people here still don't know the difference between OAS and CPP !!!

Man there must be a lot of dumbos here..eh !! Easterners by chance???

Maybe not, there's very little difference between the two, one is funded by taxes, the other by pay cheque deductions, they both come out of Ottawa and seniors receive both of them. The C.P.P. is tied more closely to the individual's contribution, so in one sense I suppose it can be conceived as a fairer benefit. Maybe there is a price to pay for having health, strength and ability to earn the big bucks. I'd much rather be on the giving end than the receiving end.

 

[L Gilbert]

Some of this I agree with:
- adjusting OAS limits to meets societies needs and the recipients income level.
- "People want more goodies from gov't, then pay more taxes. People want more take-home pay, then quit voting for the morons who keep boosting the size of the gov't tax vacuum and quit sucking on gov't teat for all the goodies that people demand more and more of from it."

Good.

- the stuff about childcare, education, etc. People make choices in live and just because you want something doesn't mean that other have to pay for it.

Then you are in the wrong country.

However, even though I'm accused of repeating myself over and over again, it doesn't seem to be sinking in that "We didn't pay into OAS over the course of our life." Not one canadian has ever paid "into" OAS before they collect it. OAS is paid directly out of general revenue.

Where do you think general revenue comes from? Some government moneytree orchard? There's a huge field of trees outside the Parliament buildings in Ottawa?

OAS is NOT like CPP or UI work canadians pay into a plan and collect later. There is NO tie between CPP and OAS..NONE.

Jeez thanks, Sherlock. I never woulda known that til you said so.

CPP is something working canadians have paid for and have a right to collect. If they need more than CPP in their senior years isn't that what social assistance is for????

Social assistance is a provincial thing. The federal version is GIS. OAS is a provisional gov't pension we get just for being Canadian citizens. CPP is a federal pension where we get a percentage of return from and we get a return directly from the money we pay into.

Not sure how many more times I will have to repeat myself but obviously the number of times so far hasn't sunk in yet......

Apparently a lot of stuff hasn't sunk into that thing between your ears either. But I can tell you that I know the difference between CPP, OAS, and GIS.

Well, I guess the rest of us can stop working now because our seniors have completed the job and there is nothing else to do....right?

Yeah, nothing needs maintenance after being built, right?

 

[JLM]

end of f*****g, "debate"

 

[L Gilbert]

Perhaps you can also enlighten me on what you perceive to be a personal attack?

There's a difference between calling you an "idiot" and calling what you post "an idiotic idea".

 

[tibear]

Where do you think general revenue comes from? Taxes are only part of the equation. Much of it comes from investments from trading Canada on the stock exchange. Look up the Corporation of Canada on the NY stock exchange. What do you think Canada's assets are that they are trading?
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OK Cliff, let's play your game, have you looked at the General Revenue for the Canadian government? Of course not, here take a look at the latest numbers: Federal general government revenue and expenditures (Revenue)

It clearly shows that in 2009 the federal government has general revenues of $237.357 Billion from various sources, of which only $12.878 Billion come from "investment income" the vast majority comes from taxes ($197.183 Billlion).

So your arguement that OAS doesn't cost the taxpayer anything is pure hogwash. OAS pensions total about $32 Billion every year so even if we move every cent, or is it nickle now, of the investment income it still leaves a shortfall of $19.122 Billion that taxpayers must pay every year. AND this amount is growing every year!!

Let's see $32 Billion in OAS payments means that 12.6% of the general revenue goes to pay OAS?

Now let's take a look at the expenditure side where there isn't any category that is over $30 Billion but one...can you guess which one that one is?????? Social Services! So even the government classifies OAS as a social service program.

$32 Billion is more than we spent on healthcare in Canada in 2009!!! ($26 Billion)

This is how debating is done with fact and figures not name calling and abuse.

 

[L Gilbert]

Where do you think general revenue comes from? Taxes are only part of the equation. Much of it comes from investments from trading Canada on the stock exchange. Look up the Corporation of Canada on the NY stock exchange. What do you think Canada's assets are that they are trading?
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And those investments belong to Canadians and are a return on Canadian capital (that is, the Canadian tax revenue).

 

[Goober]

OK Cliff, let's play your game, have you looked at the General Revenue for the Canadian government? Of course not, here take a look at the latest numbers: Federal general government revenue and expenditures (Revenue)

It clearly shows that in 2009 the federal government has general revenues of $237.357 Billion from various sources, of which only $12.878 Billion come from "investment income" the vast majority comes from taxes ($197.183 Billlion).

So your arguement that OAS doesn't cost the taxpayer anything is pure hogwash. OAS pensions total about $32 Billion every year so even if we move every cent, or is it nickle now, of the investment income it still leaves a shortfall of $19.122 Billion that taxpayers must pay every year. AND this amount is growing every year!!

Let's see $32 Billion in OAS payments means that 12.6% of the general revenue goes to pay OAS?

Now let's take a look at the expenditure side where there isn't any category that is over $30 Billion but one...can you guess which one that one is?????? Social Services! So even the government classifies OAS as a social service program.

$32 Billion is more than we spent on healthcare in Canada in 2009!!! ($26 Billion)

This is how debating is done with fact and figures not name calling and abuse.

There's no old age security 'crisis,' PBO report shows - The Globe and Mail

Guess he beat ya to it.
Here is the link
http://www.parl.gc.ca/PBO-DPB/documents/Sustainability_OAS.pdf

 

[Angstrom]

OK Cliff, let's play your game, have you looked at the General Revenue for the Canadian government? Of course not, here take a look at the latest numbers: Federal general government revenue and expenditures (Revenue)

It clearly shows that in 2009 the federal government has general revenues of $237.357 Billion from various sources, of which only $12.878 Billion come from "investment income" the vast majority comes from taxes ($197.183 Billlion).

So your arguement that OAS doesn't cost the taxpayer anything is pure hogwash. OAS pensions total about $32 Billion every year so even if we move every cent, or is it nickle now, of the investment income it still leaves a shortfall of $19.122 Billion that taxpayers must pay every year. AND this amount is growing every year!!

Let's see $32 Billion in OAS payments means that 12.6% of the general revenue goes to pay OAS?

Now let's take a look at the expenditure side where there isn't any category that is over $30 Billion but one...can you guess which one that one is?????? Social Services! So even the government classifies OAS as a social service program.

$32 Billion is more than we spent on healthcare in Canada in 2009!!! ($26 Billion)

This is how debating is done with fact and figures not name calling and abuse.

Stop I'm starting to develop babyboomer envy.

 

[tibear]

There's no old age security 'crisis,' PBO report shows - The Globe and Mail

Guess he beat ya to it.
Here is the link
http://www.parl.gc.ca/PBO-DPB/documents/Sustainability_OAS.pdf

Interesting article but it doesn't speak to the fairness of the program or whether the money would be better spent in other areas simply that the economy can afford to pay for it. That taxpayers in the future will have the ability to pay sufficient taxes to meet the OAS payments.

I never said that Canada couldn't afford to make those payments, hell you can always raise taxes can't you? The question is whether OAS should be the single highest output of money the federal government makes. Aren't there other priorities where this money could be more beneficial to all Canadians including our seniors. Thinking about healthcare or infrastructure for example?

Oh and by the way, thanks to your article I can increase the annual cost of OAS to $40 BILLION from my calculated $32 Billion.

 

[Goober]

Interesting article but it doesn't speak to the fairness of the program or whether the money would be better spent in other areas simply that the economy can afford to pay for it. That taxpayers in the future will have the ability to pay sufficient taxes to meet the OAS payments.

I never said that Canada couldn't afford to make those payments, hell you can always raise taxes can't you? The question is whether OAS should be the single highest output of money the federal government makes. Aren't there other priorities where this money could be more beneficial to all Canadians including our seniors. Thinking about healthcare or infrastructure for example?

What are your priorities?
What age group are you in?
What income level are you in?

 

[tibear]

What are your priorities?
What age group are you in?
What income level are you in?

You tell me yours and I'll tell you mine....

BTW, if you had read my postings I think I given my age about 4 times now.

 

[L Gilbert]

um, essentially, anything the Canadian gov't does for the welfare of Canadians is a social service; from tending to our healthcare system, to our Coast Guard fetching us out of the water in a risky situation, to our military making sure some other country doesn't scoop some of our real estate, to diplomatic visits to other countries for the promotion of Canadian business and international relations, etc., and senior's programs that WE pay for and earn in one way or another is part of it. Also, BTW, the fed seems to be ducking out of healthcare in favor of leaving it to the provinces. Otherwise the biggest fed expenditure would be healthcare. Well, shiver me timbers; it is anyways (over $200B for 2012). And who gives a hoot whether they drag it out of something they call "general revenue" or something they call "Aunt Sadie's shoebox" that's hidden in a dark corner of her closet?

 

[Goober]

You tell me yours and I'll tell you mine....

BTW, if you had read my postings I think I given my age about 4 times now.

I am a late arrival-indulge me - ours is 5 high end figures.

 

[darkbeaver]

Yeah, well, I kinda meant to put it in the other thread.
But it still all boils down to the fact that I've spent considerable time "investing" in gov't and this putz comes along and basically says I shouldn't expect a return on the "investment" and seniors in general (complete with increasing health issues due to age and whatnot) don't need any more gov't services than 25 and 40 year olds.

Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country.

 

[Cliffy]

Generally speaking, Canadians pay over 50% of their incomes in overall taxes. So, for every dollar Canada gives out to its citizens for whatever reason, they get it back in taxes of one sort or another. So, out of the $32 Billion paid out to OAS, $16 billion will probably end up back in general revenue. Where does the rest go to: personal rent, utility bills, car payments, increased health costs, etc. All of it taxable.