Governments spend too much on Seniors
- Thread starter tibear
- Start date
I still say that Tbear should put up or shut up....Sign a paper giving up his OAS......... period
Then he might belong on that high horse....
No, of course there are seniors who need the money BUT I would suggest that the vast majority do as suggested by someone else and simply bank the money.
Is there only absolutes with people on this site?
Again, since you're so happy with the way that OAS works should everyone, yourself included receive social assistance since it all eventually comes back anyway?
Nah, too much bureaucracy involved, just add it to the OAS and give it to us in one lump sum!
If this guy doesn't shut up pretty soon I'm going to lump him in with the other forum idiot on here! -
You know, I get really uncomfortable when people quote me for stuff like this. I'm not going to gang up on him with you. I'm discussing with him, even if my last comment might have come across as snarky.
It completely baffles me why the OP of this threads has such a burning dislike of retired seniors.
Post after post fixated on stripping away accrued benfits owed to seniors.
The OP casually dodged my point raised earlier.
OAS is not a social program, it never was and it never will be.
The OP can spend time posting over and over that it is one, but it is not.
Posting that the moon is green cheese does not make it so.
The Government of Canada defines OAS as a benefit , paid for by the people of Canada, to seniors at age 65.
It is not free money, it is not found money, it is not a social assistence program.
It is money paid for by the people of Canada and reimbursed to seniors as a benefit.
It is clawed back from incomes of $75,000 to $110,000 as deemed uneeded at that income level.
If you want to help the poor or the sick and needy why not raise income taxes on all rich Canadians and use that money?
Raise the GST and give it to the needy, create a carbon tax and give it to the needy, raise business taxes on profitable corporations and give it to the needy.
If you are socially progressive in your political views there are a lot of far, far fairer ways to raise money for the downtrodden.
What is it with this obsession about stripping owed and budgeted retirement benefits from senior citizens?
Post after post fixated on stripping away accrued benfits owed to seniors.
The OP casually dodged my point raised earlier.
OAS is not a social program, it never was and it never will be.
The OP can spend time posting over and over that it is one, but it is not.
Posting that the moon is green cheese does not make it so.
The Government of Canada defines OAS as a benefit , paid for by the people of Canada, to seniors at age 65.
It is not free money, it is not found money, it is not a social assistence program.
It is money paid for by the people of Canada and reimbursed to seniors as a benefit.
It is clawed back from incomes of $75,000 to $110,000 as deemed uneeded at that income level.
If you want to help the poor or the sick and needy why not raise income taxes on all rich Canadians and use that money?
Raise the GST and give it to the needy, create a carbon tax and give it to the needy, raise business taxes on profitable corporations and give it to the needy.
If you are socially progressive in your political views there are a lot of far, far fairer ways to raise money for the downtrodden.
What is it with this obsession about stripping owed and budgeted retirement benefits from senior citizens?
If this guy doesn't shut up pretty soon I'm going to lump him in with the other forum idiot on here! -
Oh! please your one of them:lol:
Yes cause it's comments like his that makes this forum less of a friendly place for discussing and that's not what any intelligent person wants.
I stand by you on this one Kerrie.
Really? Seniors are "owed" based on what? taxes paid.....no wait the richest canadians don't get OAS so it can't be based on taxes paid because they pay far more taxes than the ordinary canadian so that can't be it......
Working for 40 or 50 years.......no wait there is no requirement to work and pay taxes of any sort so that can't be it.....
Living until your 65......I didn't know that there was a debt to be paid for living 65 years.
Can you please refresh my memory what is it that we "owe" to seniors except our gratitude for helping to build the country? Gratitude is free isn't it or does it come with financial responsiblities. But wait, don't we all build the country everyday? Did the contribution that a senior made back 30 or 40 years ago more than what the young are doing today? Oh, it is a collective contribution build over the 65 years. Is there such a requirement to collect OAS that the person did ANYTHING but live until their 65th birthday?
I don't have a "dislike" for seniors but a "like" for fairness and take issue with programs that benefit one segment of the population without any monetary reason which causes hardships for others. Heck I'm almost a senior and have a great many senior friends. I have no problem with seniors, just OAS.
I'm sure you'll say that it is a rant and perhaps it is but to honest I get tired listening to the same lame excuses why rich seniors "deserve" this money.
Thanks Karrie. I appreciate that.
I would hope that there is enough civility in our country where people can disagree but still remain respectful. It seems like it is more of a stretch for others and I must admit there are times I want to respond disrespectfully but that would only lower the conversion to a level that I don't want to get to.
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It's not like you don't have a valid point Tibear... Yes that money could be used somewhere els.
I don't think all seniors would be very happy about giving it away no matter the situation, but....
Are they greedy? Not really. They just want what they where promised.
As for you and your parents that seem to be stock piling it.... Find a young family you all know and donate it to them.
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You don't have a clue what you are talking about. You take one aspect of one policy and demand it be cancelled because you see some abuse it. You would punish all seniors who need it because you don't like the few who don't need it. You don't understand why it was put in place, you don't understand how it works, you don't even know where the money is coming from, you just don't like seniors period. You are a one trick pony with a hard on for seniors.
The world is not a very nice place. There are really terrible things happening, there is greed, violence, hunger, starvation, injustice and pain, and you take something out of all that and spout off like you know what you are talking about. Well you don't. In the famous words of Robin Williams in Good Morning Vietnam, "I never met a man in more dire need of a blow job."
Not sure why I'm replying because if this isn't a personal attack I don't know what is.......
However, I believe it is you that needs education. The program was started to help poor seniors, however we already have a program that does that....it's called social assistance. Why do we need another program?
Since I don't know where the money is coming from how about you educate me. I believe it comes from today's taxpayers. It's not like the government took a portion of the taxes that seniors paid 50 years ago and put it in the bank to give back to them today......which is a stupid idea because there is NO requirement to pay any taxes to collect OAS.
Like I've said, I have no problem with seniors but like a couple of other people here believe that we as a society have an obligation to help the poor in our country, regardless of the age, ethnicity, gender or religion. If you're poor and need help we will help you. Period.
Now, if you want to talk about OAS and what is if really about, I'm open for respectful debating.
The way our political system runs I realize that you're Anstrom. Unfortunately our society is too individualistic and really don't care about anyone but themselves.
When I was born I don't remember being promised anything. Basically, I was told work hard, earn a living, save your money and you'll be fine. I don't count on the government, my parents, siblings, church or anyone else to look after me. I realize that there are some through no fault of their own can't make ends meet and we have an obligation to help them. Other than that I don't believe we "owe" anyone anything. We all make contributions to the country by paying taxes and doing things in the community to make everyone's life better. Should we get paid for that???? NO.
After reading many of the posts, I really do wonder how many actually took the time to look at the original newspaper article because it is obvious that what the article states is true. Governments cater to the elderly because it keeps them in power and nobody thinks about the negative impact all of these programs are having on our younger generation.
The article listed program after program that benefit solely senior citizens and I propose removing one program that could move $32 Billion to more needy people and I'm attacked within an inch of my life. Really doesn't speak to well of our loving and caring seniors does it........
why?
OAS is not a social program. It is not welfare. It is not what you are saying it is. Trex laid it out for you in post #226.
I laid it out in this post:
"What you don't get is that you are an asset of the corporation of Canada and that you are worth more to that corporation alive than dead. Canada trades its assets on the stock exchange based on population. OAS is a small investment compared to the dividends the corporation receives from trading your life and mine. Even the money spent on elderly immigrants is worth the money spent on supporting them. Same goes for babies and children. Child tax credits are an investment. They increase the over all value of the corporation."
OAS is like a contractual agreement with the corporation that gives seniors a dividend on their life's investment in the corporation. The money comes from the money the corporation invests on behalf of its assets (you and me). It does not come out of your pocket or out of tax revenues.
It can't possibly be a personal attack because Cliffy has said repeatedly that he does not make personal attacks.
Exactly!
And that's his good point! -
I didn't think gender or shoe size were part of the equation. I guess if the program is for elders there has to be an age assigned.
Evened it up for you Cliffy-
I hope so................when everyone agrees with you there is something wrong! -
I'm the first person to agree that one should disagree in a civil friendly manner and generally I do. When I go a little ballistic it's not because I disagree with the statement so much as the number of times it's being rammed down our throats. You made your point that you don't agree with OAS, I can accept that, everyone has a right to his opinion, but they don't have a right to be a boor.
Some seniors help with their grandchildren's education!
I have no problem with adjusting the OAS to better reflect current issues and dropping OAS more for people according to their level of income. But just cancelling it flat out, nope; not unless CPP rates are raised to appropriately reflect pension amounts for people who have spent a large portion of their lives working.
During the time we had kids living at home, we didn't have gov'ts forking over money for babysitting, wife didn't get so many months paid maternity leave (she had to claim UI and apply for the extended UI), and so on. We didn't like what the school system was turning into so we sacrificed time and other things to partially educate the kids at home yet still paid full taxes for education and are STILL paying full taxes for education. Then we paid for half our oldest kids' post-sec ed plus half of what it cost to set her business up and about 2/3 of our other kid's post-sec ed. We've also donated a lot of time and some money to our community and charities.
Meantime gov't has killed DPSP, continually raised taxes to cover babysitting and whatever other goodies that the public wants more and more of, and has basically become a pain in the azz.
I think it balances out. People want more goodies from gov't, then pay more taxes. People want more take-home pay, then quit voting for the morons who keep boosting the size of the gov't tax vacuum and quit sucking on gov't teat for all the goodies that people demand more and more of from it. YPeople might also want to quit forking over stupid sums for seats to watch pro-sports, buying 52" plasma tvs, buying fancy 22' motorboats, buying $600 BBQs, etc. until they can reap those sorts of rewards later in life. Also, take better care of their health because it costs gov't less for healthcare and they can better enjoy the fancy 22 footer and whatnot later.
And, BTW, I don't give two craps about how much other people make or how much in taxes they pay because the rates are graduated and the more affluent people get, the more they spend on goods, services and taxes.
I also don't mind helping out people who need gov't to help them have a life in spite of the relatively few who take unfair advantage of everything, because I can accept that sh|t like that happens.
We've built a life here that does not need much from gov'ts and economic messes don't impact us much. IOW, we have become quite independent and content and we worked hard for it and whatever we are entitled to from gov't. And you want to kill the OAS we paid into all this time and won't ever collect as much as we paid into? I'd just as soon cut your fingers off so you can't post such ill-thought-out drivel.
During the time we had kids living at home, we didn't have gov'ts forking over money for babysitting, wife didn't get so many months paid maternity leave (she had to claim UI and apply for the extended UI), and so on. We didn't like what the school system was turning into so we sacrificed time and other things to partially educate the kids at home yet still paid full taxes for education and are STILL paying full taxes for education. Then we paid for half our oldest kids' post-sec ed plus half of what it cost to set her business up and about 2/3 of our other kid's post-sec ed. We've also donated a lot of time and some money to our community and charities.
Meantime gov't has killed DPSP, continually raised taxes to cover babysitting and whatever other goodies that the public wants more and more of, and has basically become a pain in the azz.
I think it balances out. People want more goodies from gov't, then pay more taxes. People want more take-home pay, then quit voting for the morons who keep boosting the size of the gov't tax vacuum and quit sucking on gov't teat for all the goodies that people demand more and more of from it. YPeople might also want to quit forking over stupid sums for seats to watch pro-sports, buying 52" plasma tvs, buying fancy 22' motorboats, buying $600 BBQs, etc. until they can reap those sorts of rewards later in life. Also, take better care of their health because it costs gov't less for healthcare and they can better enjoy the fancy 22 footer and whatnot later.
And, BTW, I don't give two craps about how much other people make or how much in taxes they pay because the rates are graduated and the more affluent people get, the more they spend on goods, services and taxes.
I also don't mind helping out people who need gov't to help them have a life in spite of the relatively few who take unfair advantage of everything, because I can accept that sh|t like that happens.
We've built a life here that does not need much from gov'ts and economic messes don't impact us much. IOW, we have become quite independent and content and we worked hard for it and whatever we are entitled to from gov't. And you want to kill the OAS we paid into all this time and won't ever collect as much as we paid into? I'd just as soon cut your fingers off so you can't post such ill-thought-out drivel.
Being seniors, they have earned it by building this country. Now that it is built there is little for us younger folks to do but pay homage to them by giving them stuff.