God will burn them if they burn His book

[gerryh]

Objective??? or blind faith in the interpretation of another religion???
In the words of ST. Thomas "I'm a skeptic";-)

If that were true, you wouldn't have referenced Cantrell.

here's something from your references website:

Repent!!!
We have become what I have heard being called, "being too self absorbed". We have become too focused on increasing our wealth and quality of life at the expense of other people and things. We have taken a que from the corrupt upper class trash and too many of us believe it is alright to screw other people, organizations, and businesses to increase our lot in life. It is the upper class trash mantra of "Me at the expense of everyone and everything else no matter who or how many get hurt."
This is all in violation of God's Law and the morals and ethics which go with that Law. The majority of the people in this and other countries have gone astray following after the lusts of paganism. As the scriptures would say, we have become an evil people.
God will not tolerate this very long and the scriptures clearly define the judgments He will cause to happen to a people in order to punish them and turn them back to Him. The way God works this is that He causes things to get worse and worse until the people finally turn to Him to save our butts. Then and only then will God intervene to clean up the mess we have made of things.
This is why I have started encouraging revival and repentance. Until we do this, things will just keep getting worse. It is already too late for our country as a nation but we can survive as a people in one or more new nations God will raise up to protect the good people from the bad people. The thing is that the people must be broken down to the point to where they will accept God's will no matter what it is.
Interestingly, God always cleans up the mess by first clearing out the jerks who caused the mess so they can't just regroup, reorganize, and start their mischief all over again making things worse. The way God will do this is to cause a country to collapse so the people will get angry enough to revolt and kill the people who caused the mess.
History teaches that we humans won't revolt as long as we are above our comfort threshold which is the level of wealth and quality of life that we are not willing to risk losing that wealth and quality of life to stage a revolution. It is only when the majority of people have dropped down below their comfort threshold that they are willing to risk losing what little they have left to stage a revolution and get rid of at least most of the bad guys who caused the mess.
When you understand this, you understand why God has permitted the commie's and Muslims to seize control of our countries and the planet's economy. By bankrupting our countries and the planet, the upper class trash will destroy enough of our wealth and comfort that we will realize that, if we don't revolt, we will lose it all anyway so then we won't have anything to lose by revolting. That is when people always stand up, revolt, and kill off the bad guys who caused the mess.
This always forces most people to come together and work together to fight the bad guys instead of screwing each other for greater personal wealth. It opens the door for God to intervene and eventually make things better. God said this Himself when He said, "Things always work for the good with God." This will all eventually work for the good but first people have to lose enough and hurt enough to get mad enough to fight the bad guys. Therefore, you can bet things are going to get worse before they get better.
Interestingly, the upper class trash understand this but the way they respond to it is insanity. What they do is try to set up a system to prevent the middle and lower classes from revolting while they keep taking everything they can from those lower classes to satisfy their insatiable lusts for power and wealth. Their irrational and insane goal it to impoverish everyone and turn them into slaves causing everyone to lose everything they have while thinking, this time, they, the upper class trash, will prevent the revolution which it has always caused for thousands of years telling themselves they will succeed because they are smarter than their ancestors.
These fools are their own worst enemies as well as everyone else's because they insist on doing the worst thing they could do by taking everything away from the rest of the people to increase their own wealth. In doing so, they create the very conditions which always cause the people to revolt and kill the upper class trash.
They like to comfort themselves by telling each other they have learned from their ancestors' mistakes and will prevent the revolution their evil always causes. The truth is, if they had really learned from their ancestors' mistakes, they wouldn't repeat those mistakes by oppressing the people. Einstein said it best when he said that to do the same thing again and again expecting different results is insanity. This proves what I have been saying that the upper class trash have inbred themselves insane and stupid, therefore, they will always keep forcing their insanity on us and the only way to stop it is to kill them off because dead bad guys can't hurt good guys.
Unfortunately, a lot of good people always get hurt by the upper class trash's mischief.
It is time for revival on a global basis. Acknowledge your crimes against God's Laws, repent of those crimes, and seek the amnesty of our Lord Jesus the Christ. John 3:16 - For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son so that who so ever believes in Him will have everlasting life.

http://www.hauns.com/~DCQu4E5g/repent.html

 

[DaSleeper]

I repeat, is your point that Feisal Abdul Rauf is practicing Al-Taqiyya when he speaks to Muslim students in Egyptian universities about the United States not being a satanic beast?

I have said several times..."He Could Be" a skeptic is someone who doesn't swallow a ststement hook line and sinker

الشكوكي

If that were true, you wouldn't have referenced Cantrell.

here's something from your references website:



http://www.hauns.com/~DCQu4E5g/repent.html

Here's another one for y'all
Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time

 

[Omicron]

I repeat, is your point that Feisal Abdul Rauf is practicing Al-Taqiyya when he speaks to Muslim students in Egyptian universities about the United States not being a satanic beast?

I have said several times..."He Could Be" a skeptic is someone who doesn't swallow a ststement hook line and sinker

How?

Al-Taqiyya is an ancient tradition going all the way back to the time when Islam was just starting and they were under a lot of pressure, saying that under some situations, it's okay to pretend you're not a Muslim, if it gets you through the day.

How is Feisal Abdul Rauf practicing Al-Taqiyya by presenting himself as a Muslim to Americans and as a pacifist to Egyptians?

Are you thinking that he's just using that as a dove-mask to hide his real associations with Al-Quida?

Are you going to say, "Well, he *could* be".

Uh huh... and likewise you "*could* be" an alien posting from Area-51.

If you've ever studied philosophy, you'll know that anyone can blurt out ad-hoc hypothesis, but that only those who can *justify* their statements are worthy of attention.

 

[gerryh]

I have said several times..."He Could Be" a skeptic is someone who doesn't swallow a ststement hook line and sinker

الشكوكي

Here's another one for y'all
Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time

:roll:

 

[Omicron]

This is creepy. Compare these two posts.

First from a Muslim fringie:

The reason why Palestinians is on the loss and decline is because of this skepticism and atheism and the more important factor is their enthusiasm about the Prophet and his companions in addition to the innovations and the fabricated traditions which they follow instead of the Quran.
So if you want the Palestinian people to be victorious and dignified, then leave all such atheism, skepticism and enthusiasm + the false traditions; or else your ways will not succeed with your democracy and documentation of things; because - exactly like Satan - your enemy knows the truth and work contrary to it.
Moreover, if you are skeptic and don't want to observe the Quran, then what will the difference be between you and Zionists? It may be some of them knows God better than you. So who will be to my side: you or Zionists?
Therefore you cannot lead the Palestinian people or defend them unless you leave all this and in stead you should hold fast with the Glorious Quran and the devotion to God alone without any enthusiasm and to fight the false traditions --> and only then you will be victorious and triumphant.

Now from a Christian fringie

Repent!!!
We have become what I have heard being called, "being too self absorbed". We have become too focused on increasing our wealth and quality of life at the expense of other people and things. We have taken a que from the corrupt upper class trash and too many of us believe it is alright to screw other people, organizations, and businesses to increase our lot in life. It is the upper class trash mantra of "Me at the expense of everyone and everything else no matter who or how many get hurt."
This is all in violation of God's Law and the morals and ethics which go with that Law. The majority of the people in this and other countries have gone astray following after the lusts of paganism. As the scriptures would say, we have become an evil people.
God will not tolerate this very long and the scriptures clearly define the judgments He will cause to happen to a people in order to punish them and turn them back to Him. The way God works this is that He causes things to get worse and worse until the people finally turn to Him to save our butts. Then and only then will God intervene to clean up the mess we have made of things.
This is why I have started encouraging revival and repentance. Until we do this, things will just keep getting worse. It is already too late for our country as a nation but we can survive as a people in one or more new nations God will...

*sigh*... :|

 

[gerryh]

This is creepy. Compare these two posts.

First from a Muslim fringie:
Now from a Christian fringie
*sigh*... :|

Yup, and Das is using one to discredit the other.

 

[DaSleeper]

and you are not??

 

[Omicron]

and you are not??

Are you saying that by putting statements of Muslim fundies next to statements from Christian fundies, it becomes easy to see how they're both cut from the same rotten cloth, and that therefore that is somehow using them to discredit each other?

They were already discreditable standing alone. Putting them side by side simply makes it easier to see how they're two sides of the same debased coinage.

Or are you referring to the ancient tradition of Al-Taqiyya, implying that I'm secretly an Al-Qaeda undercover operative? Good grief, if that's what you're implying, I don't don't know where to begin, other than to point out how it's a meaningless maneuver in a free society.

But if you want to get into the subject of Al-Taqiyya, okay let's get into it.

As said already, Al-Taqiyya is an ancient tradition going all the way back to the time when Islam was just starting and they were under a lot of pressure, and it says that, under some situations, it's okay to pretend you're not a Muslim, if it gets you through the day.

Some Christians like to puff up their chests and say, "Our Christian for-fathers never did that. They would choose to be martyred before denying their faith!"

Well, actually, that's not quite true. In fact, in its early days, Christians made no bones about keeping a low profile when in public - being discreet when going to market - and they were private about where they would meet for mass, etc.

If you wanted to be a missionary, then go ahead, but otherwise, as a regular member you were not expected to stand up on a podium and pronounce your faith to the majority of Roman polytheists around you.

However, there was *one* situation they could not buckle on, and it was triggered by the Roman tax laws after the time of Augustus.

Augustus was the Cesar who sealed the transformation of the Roman Empire from a Republic to a Cesarean Empire, and one of his stunts was to dictate that Cesar wasn't just a human with supreme government authority, rather, that Cesar was also a god.

Why did he do that? Well, ego might have had a bit to do with it, but what we know about Augustus is that he was above all Cesar-wannabe's before and since - with the possible exception of Constantine - at understanding the relationship between public perception and power, and at the time the Achilles heal of all Caesars had been the ability of Roman citizens to run into a Greaco-Roman god's temple for shelter against tax collectors, in exchange for some kind of offering, which was generally less than the taxes required by Rome.

This was such a contentious issue all over the Roman Empire at the time that even Jesus made a statement about it, when he said "Give unto Cesar that which is Cesar's, and give unto God that which is God's", but basically, by declaring himself to be a god, Augustus was giving himself permission to follow tax-evaders into a temple.

That settled the issue of tax-collection from the Roman government's point of view, and in fact it did stabilize the flow of taxes from government back into private hands via maintenance of the army and construction of public works such that it led to a time called the Pax Romana, which was the longest period of economic stability and peace in the entire history of the Roman Empire...

... and from an ordinary subject's point of view, all you were required to do was report in once per year to a tax-collector, pay your tax, and declare your allegiance to Rome, which was done by holding your hand up and saying, "Cesar is God", whereupon your name got checked off a list.

That's where it crossed the line for Christians.

They could keep a low profile, being discreet about their faith when in the marketplace, etc. etc., basically doing what Muslims were to call Al-Taqiyya, but the number one, bottom line, key, fundamental thing they couldn't do while still calling themselves Christian was make a statement denying the existence and supremacy of the One God (which, in case you hadn't noticed, is the only real bottom-line issue for Muslims too).

At tax time a Christian had to report to a tax-collector, which he would do because pre-Constantine Romans would not respect the sanctity of a church, and it was easier to simply step forward and report than to be dragged before one, so he'd pay his tax, but *he'd refuse to say that Cesar is God*!

The Roman tax-collector would go face-in-palm, complain about how he'd had a busy day and how he didn't need the hassle, and would tell the Christian to just say it and leave and noone would be the wiser, but Christians would refuse.

Christianity is a very tolerant religion, but it does have some immutable principals, a very fundamental one of which being that there is one God over Heaven and Earth, and it's NOT Cesar! To say otherwise would be denying the Holy Spirit, which is the one sin for which no Christian can be forgiven.

So, those who refused to say "Cesar is God" would be pulled aside and either crucified on the spot, or would be saved up for the spectacle of being killed and eaten by beasts in the coliseum.

Otherwise, early Christians practiced a pattern of Al-Taqiyya similar to early Muslims, and like those early Christians, the only thing a Muslim can never be forgiven for is to deny the existence of one God over Heaven and Earth.

After that, it's all mostly just a bunch of culturally subjective chatter.

 

[ironsides]

After that, it's all mostly just a bunch of culturally subjective chatter.

I see you did your homework. :smile:

 

[JLM]

God will burn them if they burn His book

I don't know how this will be: hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, internal wars, epidemics ...etc.

This is because they pretend not agreeing about burning the book of the Quran, while they in fact do not prevent such men from committing their transgression on the book of God: the Glorious Quran.

If some persons intend to burn the Gospel, will Muslims allow this in their countries? No, of course; because Muslims believe in the Torah and the Gospel as do they believe in the Quran.

Therefore, if the American government is truly against this act of this clergy, then they have to prevent him or else they will share in the wrath of God that they will incur.

The Quran is the book of God and He Himself will defend His book.

The Ten Commandments In The Quran

This is a stupid f...........g post and a stupid f..........g thread. What God will do is immaterial (not much that we are aware of) Desecrating paraphernalia of any one else's religion is a heinous, ignorant and repulsive thing to do. However this fruit cake has been given attention which is all he is seeking in the first place. Any of his followers who are devout Christians (or even devout human beings) should drop this turkey like a hot potato. Enough said for this stupid thread. :lol::lol::lol:

 

[Kreskin]

Is it true that he has elected to stone it rather than burn it?

 

[DaSleeper]

Such a long winded piece of rhetoric to paint your definition of Al-Taqiyya in a good light when it also means that a muslim is alowed and even expected to lie to a non muslim when it serves the purpouse of the muslim agenda whatever it may be
al-Taqiyya/Dissimulation (Part I)
The part I'm talking about is at the very end of part three
If you can't find it I'll tell you where to look later:lol:
Edit: hell here it is....

Dr. al-Tijani wrote a short event where he was sitting next to a Sunni
scholar on a flight to London; they were both on their way to attend an
Islamic Conference. At that time, there was still some tension due to the
Salman Rushdi affair. The conversation between the two was naturally
concerned with the unity of the Ummah. Consequently, the Sunni/Shia issue
introduced itself as part of the conversation. The Sunni scholar said: "The
Shia must drop certain beliefs and convictions that cause disunity and
animosity among the Muslims." Dr. al-Tijani answered: "Like what?" The
Sunni scholar answered: "Like the Taqiyya and Muta' ideas." Dr. al-Tijani
immediately provided him with plenty of proofs in support of these notions,
but the Sunni scholar was not convinced, and said that although these
proofs are all authentic and correct, we must discard them for the sake of
uniting the Ummah!!! When they both got to London, the immigration officer
asked the Sunni scholar: "What is the purpose of your visit sir?" The
Sunni scholar said: "For medical treatment." Then Dr. al-Tijani was asked
the same question, and he answered: "To visit some friends." Dr. al-Tijani
followed the Sunni scholar and said: "Didn't I tell you that al-Taqiyya is
for all times and occasions!" The Sunni scholar said: "How so?" Dr. al-
Tijani answered: "Because we both lied to the airport police: I by saying
that I came to visit some friends, and you by saying that you are here for
medical treatment; when, in fact, we are here to attend the Islamic
Conference!" The Sunni scholar smiled, and said: "Well, doesn't an Islamic
Conference provide healing for the soul?!" Dr. al-Tijani was swift to say:
"And doesn't it provide an opportunity to visit friends?!"

So you see, the Sunnis practice al-Taqiyya whether they acknowledge the
fact or not. It is an innate part of human nature to save oneself, and most
often we do it without even noticing.

 

[Cliffy]

Is it true that he has elected to stone it rather than burn it?

He should be forced to get stoned and read the book. Maybe he would get enlightened.

 

[Omicron]

Is it true that he has elected to stone it rather than burn it?

That's got to be a joke, but... geez... can you imagine the Monty Pythonesque comedy it would represent if he actually did that? :shaking2:

This is a stupid f...........g post and a stupid f..........g thread. What God will do is immaterial (not much that we are aware of) Desecrating paraphernalia of any one else's religion is a heinous, ignorant and repulsive thing to do. However this fruit cake has been given attention which is all he is seeking in the first place. Any of his followers who are devout Christians (or even devout human beings) should drop this turkey like a hot potato. Enough said for this stupid thread. :lol::lol::lol:

Aww, but you're raining on the parade of fun they're having looking for reasons to hate each other

Such a long winded piece of rhetoric to paint your definition of Al-Taqiyya in a good light when it also means that a muslim is alowed and even expected to lie to a non muslim when it serves the purpouse of the muslim agenda whatever it may be

Uh huh... so...

What do you imagine natives would have to say about the trustworthiness of the treaties they signed with early Christian immigrants, and the worthiness of the deals they made with early Christian missionaries?

:roll:

Like Hijab, the concept of Al-Taqiyya is one of those that had a practical, utilitarian purpose when first conceived at the birth of Islam, but which got warped over time into something distinctly non-Quranish, just like Conquistadors and Jesuit missionaries to the America's worked with a warped interpretation of the scripture, and like how with Christians the solution has always been to go back and actually read the Bible for one's selve. Likewise, the solution for Muslims with traditions warped over time is to go back to the Quran and read it for themselves.

Everything else is just culturally subjective chatter.

Remember how Christians engendered a Black Plague because they warped an idea out of the Bible that cats were evil, such that they killed their cats, so the rat population exploded, which propagated fleas, which carried the black death?

Remember how Christians had for a time the warped notion that bathing was sinful?

Remember how Christians used to burn anyone they figured they could justify calling a witch?

It's like that for how some Muslim denominations have warped traditions and elements of the Quran over time, and it has nothing to do with the fundamental validity of the Quran.

 

[lone wolf]

I doubt if any Indians ever denied being Indians - at least before they were shamed for being native.

Uh huh... So? Methinks the analogy has little in common with the topic.

 

[DaSleeper]

I doubt if any Indians ever denied being Indians - at least before they were shamed for being native.

Uh huh... So? Methinks the analogy has little in common with the topic.

If he knew what hat he was talking about he would have said what I'm about to say...Wonder why they call it playing the devil's advocate?;-)
Jesus himself predicted at the last supper to Peter, the head of his appostles "Before the rooster crows twice you yourself will disown me three times."

Now go to bed sonny...You're past your betime, and at my age so am I..

 

[Omicron]

I doubt if any Indians ever denied being Indians - at least before they were shamed for being native.

Uh huh... So? Methinks the analogy has little in common with the topic.

You're confusing race with religion.

The point was... the poster, speaking from a Christian perspective, wants to criticize Muslims for being duplicitous to a degree beyond that proscribed by the Quran, yet Christians have one of the worst records anywhere for how they comported themselves as occupiers of the Americas...

What'd Jesus have to say about that? I believe it was something like, "Take the plank out of you're own eye first".

If he knew what hat he was talking about he would have said what I'm about to say...Wonder why they call it playing the devil's advocate?;-)
Jesus himself predicted at the last supper to Peter, the head of his appostles "Before the rooster crows twice you yourself will disown me three times."

Now go to bed sonny...You're past your betime, and at my age so am I..

Oh criminy... another one who, when cornered, seeks to distract away from his words with a marble-head on nitrous. :roll:

*Sigh*... It would be justified if you'd type something more laughable than lame.

 

[lone wolf]

Iam confusing things? You brought natives into the mix - in an analogy that has nothing to do with the topic considering treaties had nothing to do with Christianity.

THEN ... you made your edit - everything past the eye roll

 

[Omicron]

Iam confusing things? You brought natives into the mix - in an analogy that has nothing to do with the topic considering treaties had nothing to do with Christianity.

THEN ... you made your edit - everything past the eye roll

Yes you're confusing things. You're confusing race with religion.

I was talking about the Christian record of not standing by its word, and you somehow re-interpreted that to mean I was making it a native issue when I was obviously just using that as an example.

The point (which I thought obvious) was that I was talking about the hypocrisy of a Christian accusing Muslims of not living by their word. The fact that I used the Christian treatment of natives as an *example* does *not* make it an issue centered on natives... that was just one example.

You know, it's that process you just did of taking a simple statement and re-interpreting it into having a totally different focus which is exactly how both Christians and Muslims ended up with warped interpretations of their scriptures.

 

[lone wolf]

Yes you're confusing things. You're confusing race with religion.

I was talking about the Christian record of not standing by its word, and you somehow re-interpreted that to mean I was making it a native issue when I was obviously just using that as an example.

The point (which I thought obvious) was that I was talking about the hypocrisy of a Christian accusing Muslims of not living by their word. The fact that I used the Christian treatment of natives as an *example* does *not* make it an issue centered on natives... that was just one example.

You know, it's that process you just did of taking a simple statement and re-interpreting it into having a totally different focus which is exactly how both Christians and Muslims ended up with warped interpretations of their scriptures.

Off your high horse, mister! First you're on about denying one's faith, then you're on about how the Indians got screwed. Confusion? Think about it.