Federal Carbon Price established at $10 a tonne in 2018, rising to $50 by 2022

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
My personal view on climate change, not that anyone should care much, is this: I have no idea.
It seems logical that thousands of years of human habitation, and especially 200 years of intense industrial activity, would have a measurable impact on the planet, and not necessarily for the good. Most scientists seem to honestly believe carbon emissions are damaging the environment. In a general sense, as well, it seems fair that each generation should strive to leave the planet in no worse condition than they found it.
So, fine. One problem: scientists have been wrong so often, even in my limited experience, that I’m reluctant to ever assume they must be right just because they think they are. Science strikes me as excellent when taking a physical reality and sorting out why it turned out that way. But when it comes to projecting into the future, scientists run into trouble. It’s like economists who can tell you why interest rates are low, but have no real idea where they’ll be in five years, or why. They have opinions, but so does everyone. And just because they’re good with numbers, doesn’t mean they’re any better at predictions. Similarly, meteorologists can explain with certainty why it rained yesterday, but are 50-50 at best when forecasting what will happen this afternoon.
It is depressingly obvious that many eco-crusaders long ago lost touch with the practical realities of human existence
So I get antsy when “experts” issue dire warnings about the state of the world 50 years from now, since they have no way of knowing what may happen in the intervening decades to change the equation. Think back over the past 50 years (if you’re old enough) and the astonishing technological changes that have taken place. Since the rate of change seems to accelerate with astonishing speed, it’s impossible to imagine what wonders will have emerged by 2065. Anyone who pretends to know the state of the environment by then is doing just that: pretending.
I also get nervous at the religious zealotry that has consumed the environmental movement. It is depressingly obvious that many eco-crusaders long ago lost touch with the practical realities of human existence. Many of the “activists” who oppose pipeline construction, for instance, are simply impervious to argument. Justin Trudeau, for all his popularity and eagerness to please, will never win their approval, no matter how fervently he works to accommodate their concerns. They just hate pipelines, and they hate oil, and that’s that. End of story. Asking for “social licence” is pointless when it’s simply an excuse for fanatics to say no.
There is a deeply embedded hypocrisy in the movement that gives me the creeps. David Suzuki owns multiple homes, far more than he needs for his personal “footprint.” Ottawa jets hundreds of delegates to Paris to do little more than chant their support for reducing emissions. Hollywood celebrities tweet advice for the masses while building enormous Malibu palaces. Richly financed green groups spend millions spreading propaganda among the ill-informed. It makes me think of priests who preach holiness while eyeing the altar boys.
Waste is bad. Conservation is good. There is nothing wrong with a carbon tax if it serves a reasonable purpose, i.e., if it encourages emission reductions, gives society a reason to operate more efficiently, and actually makes a difference. It does no good if it’s merely a way for spendthrift governments to get their hands on more revenue while pushing people out of jobs.
I can’t say for sure where Ottawa’s pledge to impose a national carbon tax lands on this spectrum. Canada’s emissions account for 1.6 per cent of the global total. We emit more than our share, based on population, and the figure has been increasing since 1992, through three Liberal and one Conservative prime ministers. But the fact remains that, even if we were to massively reduce emissions, the overall impact would be minuscule, overwhelmed by the massive output from China, India and the U.S., none of which show any serious signs of curbing their activities.
While Trudeau’s tax may please eastern Canadians, and particularly Quebec, the practical impact is likely to be negligible. British Columbia, Ontario, Quebec and Alberta — containing 86 per cent of Canada’s population — already have, or are introducing their own tax plans. The main impact of the federal levy will be to force them to increase the rate in a few years’ time. Judging by reactions in Alberta and Saskatchewan, it may also reignite East-West tensions that date to Trudeau’s father and have yet to fully heal.
Other than B.C., which offsets its carbon fee with tax reductions elsewhere, most of the money will be gobbled up by the provinces to spend as they like. To that degree it is indeed a new tax that Canadians will have to bear, and which will become increasingly painful as Trudeau’s ladder of increases take effect. It will make life more difficult in Alberta, already struggling under a savage recession, though it may also give the prime minister the political shield he needs to approve at least one oil pipeline, and possibly another.
It comes down to this: Canadians will pay more for a tax that will have very little impact on the global problem. It will let us feel we’re doing our share, while potentially aggravating East-West tensions and adding another challenge to the energy industry, which provides or supports millions of jobs. It will enable the Liberals to attend international meetings and boast that Canada is on the side of the angels, while allowing Trudeau to keep a campaign promise to voters.
Is it worth it? That depends on your point of view. It’s worthy enough as a gesture, it just probably won’t accomplish anything significant.



Kelly McParland: Trudeau’s carbon plan means Canadians will pay more for a tax that will have very little impact | National Post

Upset bots who still choose to live here.

Oh well.

Maybe there's another planet out there for you losers.


MPs vote 207 to 81 to back Paris climate change agreement - Politics - CBC News

Were you born an obnoxious moron, or have you had to work at it?
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,153
9,432
113
Washington DC
My personal view on climate change, not that anyone should care much, is this: I have no idea.
It seems logical that thousands of years of human habitation, and especially 200 years of intense industrial activity, would have a measurable impact on the planet, and not necessarily for the good. Most scientists seem to honestly believe carbon emissions are damaging the environment. In a general sense, as well, it seems fair that each generation should strive to leave the planet in no worse condition than they found it.
So, fine. One problem: scientists have been wrong so often, even in my limited experience, that I’m reluctant to ever assume they must be right just because they think they are. Science strikes me as excellent when taking a physical reality and sorting out why it turned out that way. But when it comes to projecting into the future, scientists run into trouble. It’s like economists who can tell you why interest rates are low, but have no real idea where they’ll be in five years, or why. They have opinions, but so does everyone. And just because they’re good with numbers, doesn’t mean they’re any better at predictions. Similarly, meteorologists can explain with certainty why it rained yesterday, but are 50-50 at best when forecasting what will happen this afternoon.
It is depressingly obvious that many eco-crusaders long ago lost touch with the practical realities of human existence
Agreed, to everything you said. I just shortened it for space.

This seems to be a reasonable compromise to me: most anti-pollution measures (clean smokestacks, reducing tailpipe emissions, controlling factory effluents of all types) also have an effect on carbon release. So doesn't it make sense that we should focus our efforts on the twofers of pollution control and carbon control? Yeah, some experiments on carbon, but let's make them experiments that produce other benefits as well (electric cars, alternate or "green" energy, that sort of thing) and go big on the stuff that we already know has important beneficial effects on the demonstrated ills of pollution, and side-benefit effects that they also reduce carbon emission.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
5,160
27
48
Chillliwack, BC
2022 will be after Justin Trudeau's lamentable tenure as PM will have been over for at least 3 years. When the fraud of AGW and intellectual bankruptcy of the Liberals and the economic disaster of AGW 'solutions' will have become ever more apparent.

That will be after the administration of Donald Trump, a firm AGW denier, will have made the tax an unbearable comparative burden on Canadian product and prosperity. There is nothing that the Trudeau administration can impose that can't be reversed.. once some sense and responsibility returns to government.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
It will be fun watching the Paris Accord fail just like Kyoto. :)

Especially because you'll be dead by then.

But we'll have our pricing mechanisms well in place and you will be perpetually angry (while I laugh at you) long before then.
 

JamesBondo

House Member
Mar 3, 2012
4,158
37
48
I don't believe that we live at that perfect tipping point where we must agree to be taxed to death by a useless liberal administration else the environment will be lost.
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

Satelitte Radio Addict
May 28, 2007
15,248
2,879
113
Toronto, ON
I don't believe that we live at that perfect tipping point where we must agree to be taxed to death by a useless liberal administration else the environment will be lost.

If the environment will be lost, it still will be. Some Lieberal die hards will have more money in their pockets though.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
I don't believe that we live at that perfect tipping point where we must agree to be taxed to death by a useless liberal administration else the environment will be lost.

Thankfully we aren't being taxed to death and there is a reasonable rate of increase on the pricing scheme.

Although, yes, we do seem to need a Liberal government to be able to do what a Conservative one can't.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
48
USA
Especially because you'll be dead by then.

You'll probably be dead first chunky!

But we'll have our pricing mechanisms well in place and you will be perpetually angry (while I laugh at you) long before then.
Just like they had them for Kyoto! Canada still owes BILLIONS at I haven't seen Trudeau say anything about honoring that treaty.


Hilarious that you think a non-binding agreement that simply asks countries to start monitoring their emissions is going to turn into a cash windfall.

Not even close —

US unlikely to meet targets set after Paris climate agreement


http://arstechnica.com/science/2016...et-targets-set-after-paris-climate-agreement/

*snicker*
 

Decapoda

Council Member
Mar 4, 2016
1,682
801
113
I also get nervous at the religious zealotry that has consumed the environmental movement. It is depressingly obvious that many eco-crusaders long ago lost touch with the practical realities of human existence. Many of the “activists” who oppose pipeline construction, for instance, are simply impervious to argument. Justin Trudeau, for all his popularity and eagerness to please, will never win their approval, no matter how fervently he works to accommodate their concerns. They just hate pipelines, and they hate oil, and that’s that. End of story. Asking for “social licence” is pointless when it’s simply an excuse for fanatics to say no.

It's incredibly suspect that many of these so-called eco-crusaders are foreign entities running as charitable foundations in Canada; they have no business sticking their nose in Canadian affairs, and certainly have no freaking business shaping Canadian environmental policy. Entities like the Tides Foundation, Oak Foundation, Sea Change foundation, based mainly in California are funding anti-pipeline and anti-oil initiatives here in Canada, while Obama works ever so diligently at expanding American resources, increasing resource potential in his own country. I wonder if these idiot enviro-nuts realize they are being played as pawns in a much larger game? I wonder if Princess Trudeau realizes he is being played for a chump or if he even cares.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
48
USA
It's incredibly suspect that many of these so-called eco-crusaders are foreign entities running as charitable foundations in Canada; they have no business sticking their nose in Canadian affairs, and certainly have no freaking business shaping Canadian environmental policy. Entities like the Tides Foundation, Oak Foundation, Sea Change foundation, based mainly in California are funding anti-pipeline and anti-oil initiatives here in Canada, while Obama works ever so diligently at expanding American resources, increasing resource potential in his own country. I wonder if these idiot enviro-nuts realize they are being played as pawns in a much larger game? I wonder if Princess Trudeau realizes he is being played for a chump or if he even cares.

I agree Decap... Canada is in a much worse place than the US with this. These groups you mention will gladly milk and squeeze the Canadian taxpayer for all they can and Trudeau seems quite content.

And the climate will still change.

Socialism and Globalism cannot be sedentary. There must be real or imagined crisis and agitation to exist.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
You'll probably be dead first chunky!

Just like they had them for Kyoto! Canada still owes BILLIONS at I haven't seen Trudeau say anything about honoring that treaty.


Hilarious that you think a non-binding agreement that simply asks countries to start monitoring their emissions is going to turn into a cash windfall.

Not even close —

US unlikely to meet targets set after Paris climate agreement


US unlikely to meet targets set after Paris climate agreement | Ars Technica

*snicker*

First off, I'm 185 at 6 ft. so no chunk here.

Secondly, no one actually expects countries to meet their targets.

Lastly, you will be alive to see your country have a carbon pricing mechanism.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,340
113
Vancouver Island
First off, I'm 185 at 6 ft. so no chunk here.

Secondly, no one actually expects countries to meet their targets.

Lastly, you will be alive to see your country have a carbon pricing mechanism.

So you agree that these international gabfest are a waste of time, money and carbon?
Just this week the guy that founded the Weather network publicly announced that climate change is a scam as did Patrick Moore a couple of weeks back. THe only ones pushing the Kool Aid are a few washed up actors in Hollywierd and Suzuki, who has a larger carbon footprint than many towns.
 

Remington1

Council Member
Jan 30, 2016
1,469
1
36
Interestingly enough, just heard the latest. JT has paid $ 200,000 for 'deliverology' advice. This was a term coined by a UK Consultant advising politician's on exactly 'how to sell a tax hike' to the British people!! Well, seem our very own JT has been flying this guy back and forth to teach him how to convince us that more taxes are good, and how to convince us that we can afford to give more of our money to Ottawa!! Oh, and best of all this guy is being paid by us, right?? Maybe the Libs in Ontario can use his services next?
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
So you agree that these international gabfest are a waste of time, money and carbon?
Just this week the guy that founded the Weather network publicly announced that climate change is a scam as did Patrick Moore a couple of weeks back. THe only ones pushing the Kool Aid are a few washed up actors in Hollywierd and Suzuki, who has a larger carbon footprint than many towns.

No, I think they need to set ambitious targets or we won't do anything.