Federal Carbon Price established at $10 a tonne in 2018, rising to $50 by 2022

bobnoorduyn

Council Member
Nov 26, 2008
2,262
28
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Mountain Veiw County
and Toronto, Halifax, Winnipeg, Victoria, .....


Toronto and Halifax have water treatment plants, I don't know about Winnipeg or Victoria, (though it is reported that both Victoria and Vancouver do release raw sewage into the ocean). I've been to one in Toronto and I know Halifax has one because of the issues they've had, it was overwhelmed numerous times during heavy rainfalls releasing finless brown trout directly into the harbour.


My main issue is the hypocrisy of Montreal, and Vancouver and Victoria for that matter, that they get away with this all the while championing carbon taxes and fighting pipeline expansion.
 

10larry

Electoral Member
Apr 6, 2010
722
0
16
Niagara Falls
No big surprise there.

Many foreign nations already have the equivalent of carbon taxes. All you have to do is check out what price motorists in various nations pay for a liter of gasoline. Gasoline prices around the world, 03-Oct-2016 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com

So true, stiffing hapless consumers be a bureaucratic fav for dipping into pockets however when really large consumer nations refuse to play their fund raising game social engineering 'experts' are forced to a detour. China and russia made gazillions off kyoto and don't appear interested in giving back any of their wind fall $$$$s.
The heart of the matter is most govs are cash strapped and this carbon charade presents a nifty mirage style coffer stuffing gambit for them. Same old same old, those that can afford to pay to pollute will whilst those low on the economic totem pole witness another dip in living standards. It's not about arctic ice or ghg reduction but it most certainly is about raising capital n' that's why junior is pushing it so hard.
 

JamesBondo

House Member
Mar 3, 2012
4,158
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48
So, at $10 per tonne, how do I get 2 tonnes delivered to my house, and what necessary modifications do I need to make to my wood burning stove?
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
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Fresh off the press for everyone to read in the next few days.

Enjoy!


How British Columbia Enacted the Most Effective Carbon Tax in North America

Suppose that you live in Vancouver and you drive a car to work. Naturally, you have to get gas regularly. When you stop at the pump, you may see a notice like the one below, explaining that part of the price you're paying is, in effect, due to the cost of carbon. That's because in 2008, the government of British Columbia decided to impose a tax on greenhouse gas emissions from fossil fuels, enacting what has been called "the most significant carbon tax in the Western Hemisphere by far."

A carbon tax is just what it sounds like: The BC government levies a fee, currently 30 Canadian dollars, for every metric ton of carbon dioxide equivalent emissions resulting from the burning of various fuels, including gasoline, diesel, natural gas, and, of course, coal. That amount is then included in the price you pay at the pump—for gasoline, it's 6.67 cents per liter (about 25 cents per gallon)—or on your home heating bill, or wherever else the tax applies. (Canadian dollars are currently worth about 89 American cents).

If the goal was to reduce global warming pollution, then the BC carbon tax totally works. Since its passage, gasoline use in British Columbia has plummeted, declining seven times as much as might be expected from an equivalent rise in the market price of gas, according to a recent study by two researchers at the University of Ottawa. That's apparently because the tax hasn't just had an economic effect: It has also helped change the culture of energy use in BC. "I think it really increased the awareness about climate change and the need for carbon reduction, just because it was a daily, weekly thing that you saw," says Merran Smith, the head of Clean Energy Canada. "It made climate action real to people."

It also saved many of them a lot of money. Sure, the tax may cost you if you drive your car a great deal, or if you have high home gas heating costs. But it also gives you the opportunity to save a lot of money if you change your habits, for instance by driving less or buying a more fuel-efficient vehicle. That's because the tax is designed to be "revenue neutral"—the money it raises goes right back to citizens in the form of tax breaks. Overall, the tax has brought in some $5 billion in revenue so far, and more than $3 billion has then been returned in the form of business tax cuts, along with over $1 billion in personal tax breaks, and nearly $1 billion in low-income tax credits (to protect those for whom rising fuel costs could mean the greatest economic hardship). According to the BC Ministry of Finance, for individuals who earn up to $122,000, income tax rates in the province are now Canada's lowest.

How British Columbia Enacted the Most Effective Carbon Tax in North America - CityLab

So explain how when you live where there is no public transit and no NG for heat haw you can drive less? Or since globull warming is just that, lower your heating bill?
The fact is it is an expensive scam to buy lefty votes and it worked.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
But you can't consider something "effective" without explaining what it is you are trying to do. Since the problem is climate change, you are suggesting that this is having an affect on climate change. How?

Reducing carbon emissions, which was actually stated in the article if you'd bothered to read it.

So explain how when you live where there is no public transit and no NG for heat haw you can drive less? Or since globull warming is just that, lower your heating bill?
The fact is it is an expensive scam to buy lefty votes and it worked.

Two truths:

1. It's real
2. You will be angry for the rest of your life
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
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Ah yes! Justin once again helping out the middle class in his own special way.

Having blessed the average worker in this country with $57 per year in tax reduction (as opposed to a $200,000 wage earmer, who gets about $850) Justin has further blessed the average household with an addition $1250 in taxes.

Oh, and we haven't even gotten to CPP yet!

This Shytehead is truely beyond the Pale. He pulls off this surprise announcement in the House while negotiations are going on. Why? Because the idiot can't handle himself in debate, and both Mulcair and Ambrose were out of the House.

Brad Wall is exactly correct.

This is an egotist on a lunatic romp. He is doing this country serious damage in so many ways.

But the morons are sucking it up!
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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Location, Location
I know Halifax has one because of the issues they've had, it was overwhelmed numerous times during heavy rainfalls releasing finless brown trout directly into the harbour.



The pumping station, which is many stories down below sea level, flooded with sewage when a screen got blocked, filling all of the controls with sewage, and then it was discovered that there was no way to bypass anything for maintenance, except to dump it all in the harbour again.


Just what I want to fix, a whole bunch of electronics that's been submerged in sewage.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
Poor Colpy and the Rexbots.

Always wrong.

Always wrong.


John Ivison: Trudeau outsmarts opponents on carbon pricing

When it was first elected, this Liberal government was like a bull wearing hobnail boots on the climate change file. Now it seems to be creeping toward its targets on cat’s paws.

All provinces and territories will be obliged to set a minimum price of $10 a tonne of carbon emitted in 2018, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau told the House of Commons Monday, rising $10 each year to $50 per tonne in 2022.

“Pollution crosses borders, so all provinces must do their part,” he said. There were nonetheless splutters of outrage from some provincial capitals as he confirmed the federal government will impose a minimum price on provinces or territories that don’t initiate one themselves.

Brad Wall, the most outspoken of Trudeau’s provincial critics, accused the prime minister of showing “disrespect” by unilaterally announcing a carbon tax even as the country’s environment ministers were meeting in Montreal to discuss a “collaborative climate change plan.”

Wall pointed out Canada is plowing ahead with carbon pricing without having any clear idea what is going to happen in the U.S. “In the coming weeks, Saskatchewan will investigate all options to mitigate the impact of one of the largest national tax increases in Canadian history,” he said.

British Columbia already has a tax of $30 a tonne, so it can sit pat until 2021, while Alberta, Ontario and Quebec are engaged in their own carbon-pricing plans. But for several provinces, the indignation at what many consider Ottawa’s flagrant breach of jurisdiction will have been tempered by the modest nature of the pricing plan. Rumours before Monday’s announcement had suggested a much higher floor price.

The federal government has been persuaded to put some dilbit in its bitumen by the hard economic and political realities that were absent in opposition. Though the Liberals first decried the Harper government’s targets, calling a goal of reducing emissions to 30 per cent below 2005 levels by 2030 “false” — they have quietly adopted them.

Now it appears their carbon pricing plan will not even hit those relatively modest goals.

To make good that target, pricing experts like Simon Fraser University’s Mark Jaccard have estimated a floor price would need to be set at $30 a tonne, increasing every year until it hit $200 a tonne by 2030. A carbon price at that level would add somewhere in the region of 50 cents on a litre of fuel. That’s torch and pitchfork territory.

Polls suggest there is overwhelming support for the idea of carbon pricing, and that many Canadians back the imposition of a national climate change target. Trudeau alluded to that generosity of spirit when he said Canadians are prepared to work together and follow through on the commitments to fighting climate change made in the Paris Agreement on climate change. But such good will has its limits.

Environmental groups rushed Monday to condemn the planned price as being too low to take a bite out of Canada’s emissions. Dale Marshall of Environmental Defence said the carbon price needs to rise at the same rate beyond 2022 — a point on which Trudeau was mute.

Douglas Russell, an energy consultant and former climate change negotiator for the Canadian government, called the plan a “delicately crafted piece of work” that establishes a precedent for carbon pricing and recognizes the work already done by some provinces.

The genius from Ottawa’s point of view is that the price is so low that many of the provinces will decide to climb on board, once they have had a good moan and tried to wheedle whatever concession is top of their respective wish lists.

Alberta Premier Rachel Notley issued a statement saying her province supports the concept of national carbon pricing, but won’t back the plan without progress on pipelines. She will surely be looking for federal approval for Kinder Morgan’s Trans Mountain pipeline, on which cabinet will decide by year’s end.

In the House of Commons, the surprise announcement of a carbon floor price went as well as could be expected for the government.

To Trudeau’s credit, a major policy was unveiled in the people’s forum, kicking off a three-day debate on climate change, which will be followed by a vote.

Conservative critic Ed Fast accused Trudeau of “lowering the boom” on the provinces through a “sledgehammer” pricing plan that would force the provinces to accept a carbon tax grab. The NDP’s Linda Duncan said the Liberals had “backtracked” by adopting the Harper government’s emissions targets.

The criticism from left and right created a comfortable sweet spot for the prime minister.

“The NDP thinks we are not going far enough. The Conservatives think we have gone too far. I think, and most Canadians think, we have got the right balance,” Trudeau said.

Given the general acceptance among voters that the time is right for carbon pricing, not to mention the relatively muted response to the low floor price from the provinces, it suggests the Conservatives have need of a better game plan than simply criticizing Trudeau’s “massive tax grab.”

John Ivison: Trudeau outsmarts opponents on carbon pricing
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
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Ottawa, ON
Instead of a carbon tax, why not a non-renewable-resource tax? That would cover all of the bases in one swoop.

However, then we would need to compensate for the high resource tax. Unilatterally drop all tariffs and all business taxes except for those that sell alcohol, tobacco and such. On them slap the same tax as for resources, sky high.

Maybe introduce a moderate wealth tax and scrap all income taxes.

Then maybe a tax on animals too. They take up much space in husbandry. This would reduce meat consumption too. So now we'd have fewer people taking drugs due to the tax on alcohol, tobacco, etc. People eartin healthier due to the tax on meat. People buying more fuel efficient cars or working from home or cycling to work etc. to save on the resource tax, but, if they take care of themselves and the environment, would pay a minor wealth tax of let's say 20 or 25%.

That way, it would be far more user pay overall.
 

Durry

House Member
May 18, 2010
4,709
286
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Canada
If carbon reduction was the objective then the headlines should be something like, "the gov is going to reduce emissions by x mega tons (i.e. 200 mega tons) this year and the plans on how this is going to be done is still to come", etc.

Instead the headlines are we are going to have a carbon tax. And then they later say, oh, it's going to reduce carbon emissions.

How backwards can one get anyways??
 

Durry

House Member
May 18, 2010
4,709
286
83
Canada
If we produced and sold a lot of LPG to China, we would be reducing overall carbon emissions because China would build fewer coal plants.

It's all about AB & BC increasing emissions to produce LPGs so that China could reduce much larger emissions.

This concept is tooooo difficult for the Lefties to understand.
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,141
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If we produced and sold a lot of LPG to China, we would be reducing overall carbon emissions because China would build fewer coal plants.

It's all about AB & BC increasing emissions to produce LPGs so that China could reduce much larger emissions.

This concept is tooooo difficult for the Lefties to understand.
Thanks for weighing in, Durry. Always important to hear from the special-needs community.
 

Queb

Electoral Member
Jun 23, 2013
293
0
16
Toronto and Halifax have water treatment plants, I don't know about Winnipeg or Victoria, (though it is reported that both Victoria and Vancouver do release raw sewage into the ocean). I've been to one in Toronto and I know Halifax has one because of the issues they've had, it was overwhelmed numerous times during heavy rainfalls releasing finless brown trout directly into the harbour.


My main issue is the hypocrisy of Montreal, and Vancouver and Victoria for that matter, that they get away with this all the while championing carbon taxes and fighting pipeline expansion.


Montréal have water treatment since many décades. The "big flush" was mandatory for conduite maintenance.
Exactly the same thing as Toronto did in the past also... no later than 2013 because of an "over flow".


Halifax got a water treatment only in 2008. Up to this year, they flush everything in the water.


Winnipeg have a problem with their water treatment since 2004 and then... they flush it also. The problem is supposed to be fixed in 2017.


Victoria flush 130 millions of liter per days (44,5 billions of liters per year) It's supposed to be fixed in 2020.




it is what it is
 

Mowich

Hall of Fame Member
Dec 25, 2005
16,649
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It already happened in BC and it made their economy better.

You obviously have not been in downtown Vancouver during the rush hour when the air at ground level is a miasma of diesel fumes. You also never seem to take into consideration what the wildfires that burn every summer do to our air - a carbon tax will do nothing to change that .........and if the prognosticators are right, we will see an increase in the number of fires every summer. Good luck with that.


Oh.............and our economy?...................it sucks.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Any tonnage of carbon captured in the first year of the nutty plan can and will be erased by the first days emmisions of a decent volcanic eruption which are inevitable. The whole show is the biggest fraud ever concieved of.