Famous Abortionist given Order of Canada!

[Zzarchov]

Bigger question:

If a fetus is a person, then a mother who miscarries should face charges of negligence causing death.

 

[Praxius]

Yes, you got me! I stand corrected!

Oh don't feel I'm just raggin on you... there was more then just one person in this thread typing Metal.... and sure, I screw up my spelling from time to time too.... but once multiple people continually spell something the same way, the wrong way.... I just had to say something

 

[Praxius]

I still want to come back to your last answer, Praxi. I was emotionally drained for a couple of days. It is good to let the emotional flare die down a bit. But just now I found a short statement at the side of CTV news. Apparently another Order of Canada medal was returned.

Group returns Order of Canada
An Ontario Catholic organization has returned the Order of Canada medal given to its founder to protest awarding abortionist Dr. Henry Morgentaler with the same distinction.

Yeah there's a couple of religious groups doing that now... but a collective poll they released on Global National a few days ago claim that the majority of Canadians feel he should have the medal..... I think it was something like 61 or 68% of Canadians asked said they didn't have a problem with it.

And we all have to remember, the Order of Canada isn't something owned and operated by any religious group or any political party, but their own decision makers. The Order of Canada was given to those people returning them, for their own good deeds and benifits to their and our communities....... if they want to return the Order of Canada because someone they don't like got it, then that not only removes their own identification of what they themselves have done in which Canadians took notice, but it just reminds me of some petty child stomping their feet and throwing their cake on the ground.

They're not going to change their minds from this protest and he's still going to get the Order of Canada.

 

[Praxius]

I do not understand the concept that a fetus is not a living human being - " a lump of flesh" - this is crap and only said by people who delude themselves that a fetus suddenly and miraculously becomes a person when they exit the mother.

It's no different then your delusion that the fetus is miraculously a living, breathing human with thoughts and emotions long before it's body is completely developed to substain those types of brain patterns and concepts.

That's right, think about that for a while.

When can you tell me the fetus can independantly think and react for itself? At what stage does this happen? Is the brain fully developed at that time? Is it still growning and splitting cells for development?

How come the baby normally appears limp and dead-like when born until given a lil' smack on the arse to induce breathing, and then all of a sudden the baby is wide awake, breathing and active?

Explain this to me in a logical manner and I might begin to believe your side of the argument.... until then.....

It is a legal nicety and not what the Supreme court said and I quote "The value to be placed on the foetus as potential life is directly related to the stage of its development during gestation. The undeveloped foetus starts out as a newly fertilized ovum; the fully developed foetus emerges ultimately as an infant. A developmental progression takes place between these two extremes and it has a direct bearing on the value of the foetus as potential life.

Key Word: POTENTIAL

Accordingly, the foetus should be viewed in differential and developmental terms. This view of the foetus supports a permissive approach to abortion in the early stages where the woman's autonomy would be absolute and a restrictive approach in the later stages where the states's interest in protecting the foetus would justify its prescribing conditions. The precise point in the development of the foetus at which the state's interest in its protection becomes 'compelling' should be left to the informed judgment of the legislature which is in a position to receive submissions on the subject from all the relevant disciplines."

Sound's about right to me.

Look at enough sonars like I do and you know exactly what they look like - you watch them breath, suck, swallow and pee and their heart beat before they are born and you know that at 18 weeks they are anatomically well enough developed enough to diagnose congenital abnormalities.

And yet again, all those things can still be identified as basic fetal development reactions.... if nothing moved, no arms or legs bend or react and other organs and body functions are not tested and used during the time in the womb, when the baby is born it's muscles would have atrophy issues.... and I could only image what the rest of the body would be like.

The problem arises when the best interests of the mother/family conflicts with the best interests of the unborn child and the decision has to be made as to whose life has more value. But do not delude yourself that it is not killing a living human being.

It's not living.... deal with it.

And even if it was, the life which has already started, has already had life experience, has a family and people who love them should take priority over something that can't even fathom where it currently is and all it knows it the dark womb and the fluid surrounding it.

Don't be fooled.... just because you or others might get some emotional dribble in your eyes from seeing little feet and guts being sucked out.... doesn't mean that fetus has emotions.... let alone any conciousness. You are letting your own emotions cloud logic.

I would never want to deprive a woman of the choice of abortion on demand, I am sad that these women do not have better alternatives (other than abortion). As for Morgenthaler - it would have been better if somebody less divisive had been chosen.

Maybe that was the whole reason why he was chosen?

 

[Praxius]

Ptraxius.... maybe you should pay more attention to your sig when it comes to this subject.

I wondered when someone would pull that one....

1st, I never referred to anything in relation to Progress
2nd, I Didn't kill anybody.... yet.
3rd, I never claimed nor acknowleged that a fetus is alive to be considdered killed during an abortion in the first place.

Therefore my Signature doesn't relate to the topic at all, let alone myself.

Thanks for playing though.

 

[Praxius]

As far as I'm concerned...the women gives up that right when she becomes pregnant. For the majority, she had a choice in whether or not she got pregnant.

Nobody gives up any rights for anything when it comes to their own bodies, health and mind..... survival of the fittest as they say, and when it comes down to who shall live and how, the potiential mother has the final say in this regardless of anybody else's opinions.

Unless you want to chain her down to a bed for the 9 months to make sure she can't do anything to the fetus she's carrying in order to suit your own morals, there's not a whole lot you or I can do that wouldn't end up hurting or killing the fetus regardless.

No matter if abortions were available or not, the fetus will not survive in most cases if the mother doesn't want it. All one needs to do is stress out their bodies enough to cause a miscarriage and then it's done and nobody can do anything about it..... you can't even lay criminal charges on her, because it was stress induced..... are we now going to start jailing people because they get physically and mentally stressed?

Then you get into all sorts of crazy courts, defenses, blame shifting as to who stressed out who, how and why..... redirecting their induced stress on their man, or the pressures put on them for having the kid, or simple financial or common living stresses which didn't even relate to the fetus in the first place.......

Where do you draw the line?

You don't. Let people live their current and existing lives as they themselves see fit..... and live your own lives as you see fit. If you don't believe in abortions, then don't practice or promote them. If you are following the right path, then others will follow and you will eventually change more minds and save more of these "Lives" then you ever will by continually moral preaching everybody.

 

[darkbeaver]

Abortion is natural birth control. Many other spiecies use abortion exactly as a means of birth control. Whatever anyones feelings are regarding abortion, it's here, it's always been used, it always will be used. You're arguing about a fundemental of life that you don't control and never can. Does life begin at conception? Does life begin at all? Aren't we totally emersered in life even in death? I believe that the selection of abortion is totally the potential mothers to make and when others beside the potential mother make it they tread on primal ground where they defile the fundemental laws of nature. Do not interfere with the mother, ever. Some live some die this is the way nature is.

 

[Praxius]

Abortion is natural birth control. Many other spiecies use abortion exactly as a means of birth control. Whatever anyones feelings are regarding abortion, it's here, it's always been used, it always will be used. You're arguing about a fundemental of life that you don't control and never can. Does life begin at conception? Does life begin at all? Aren't we totally emersered in life even in death? I believe that the selection of abortion is totally the potential mothers to make and when others beside the potential mother make it they tread on primal ground where they defile the fundemental laws of nature. Do not interfere with the mother, ever. Some live some die this is the way nature is.

For once I was gonna give you a rep, but the damn system says I have to "Spread it Around"..... even though I have been trying to, only for it to tell me to "Spread it Around"

Anyways, one can also look at abortions this way:

Selective Parenting. What's the difference between someone getting rid of an unwanted fetus, and someone going to the doctor to genetically modify their fetus/egg, choose their gender, basically choosing the type of child they want before it's even born?

No matter how you look at something, or what background you come from, humans have been and always will be interfeering with our own development..... and before someone claims modifying the DNA of a fetus isn't the same as "Killing" that fetus for the chance of a better one...... which is more worse? Aborting the fetus, or mutating the fetus with unknown outcomes in their future life? (Could make things better for them.... then again, might make their lives even worse.)

What about clones?

What about all the other thousands of immoral things humanity does on a daily basis?

Who's morals should the entire planet follow?

Your Morals?

My Morals?

 

[dancing-loon]

From Cayce's perspective, we are not simply physical bodies [as the atheists believe] or even physical bodies with souls [as the anti-abortionists believe], but are instead [as the Eastern religions teach] spiritual beings who are currently having a material experience. As souls, we have manifested in the earth in order to learn lessons that will enable us to return to our former state of spiritual awareness. At the same time, the one purpose we all have in common is to bring the spirituality of the Creator into the earth.​

A soul can choose to be born into either a male or a female body in any given lifetime or, as Cayce called it, an incarnation. A soul selects that environment (parents and family, location, personal obstacles, etc.) which will best allow for the learning of lessons it needs for completeness. The goal is to fully express love in all the challenges which physical life offers. One's experiences are subject to the choices made with free will. As one grows, he or she learns-or rather remembers-his or her true relationship with God and one's heritage as a spiritual being. With free will, we can turn the challenges life presents to us into stepping-stones toward growth, or we can see them as obstacles and stumbling blocks. Either way, we reap what we have sown. We constantly meet the consequences of previous deeds and attitudes.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I had hoped to find from some wise source an explanation specifically on abortion. Couldn't find anything yet, but will keep looking.
As I have mentioned earlier in this thread, I believe in Reincarnation.
I consider myself blessed to have been given the opportunity to learn about reincarnation. To this day it is the only "religion" that makes sense to me. That is why I am opposed to abortion, but I am also tolerant enough to let the mothers and fathers weave their own karmic lessons. I don't force my belief on anybody!

With Beaver's notion that abortion is a natural birth control is nothing wrong. It is all a question of evolvement.

Abortion doesn't kill the spirit/soul, it kills the life force of the foetus. It is like killing any other living being. The body gets discarded, the spirit/soul goes back into the Astral realm, waiting for a new opportunity to incarnate. How easy it is to find the best suited parents... I have no idea.

Praxius brought another bunch of "natural" man-made manipulations into the playing field.... genetically modified fetuses. :roll: Yes, why not?? I can already envision the next candidate for the Order of Canada!

Man is forever testing the limits of his brains!! We will have to see the results of all this genetic altering. Eventually we will be presented with the bill .....pay-time!!








​

 

[dancing-loon]

Top judge clarifying her position:

Top judge didn't vote in Morgentaler decision

Chief Justice Beverley McLachlin moved to stifle controversy over her role in awarding the Order of Canada to abortionist Henry Morgentaler today, saying she purposely did not cast a vote at a committee meeting where his name was proposed as a recipient.

Chief Justice McLachlin told reporters at the Canadian Bar Association's annual convention that her critics mistakenly believe she took a position in favour of Dr. Morgentaler receiving the award.
........
"I made a personal policy decision that I would not weigh in for or against a particular name ... and that is the way I have always proceeded," she said. "In fact, I do not vote except I reserve the right to vote in the rare case of a tie. ...

Within moments of her declaration, Manitoba Chief Justice Richard Scott - chair of the Canadian Judicial Council's disciplinary committee - said that the chief justice's defence will likely derail the misconduct complaint.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home
-------------------------------------------------------------
This matter still makes headlines! I thought it was done and over.
Too bad the complaint will not be taken up and dealt with in a fair and serious manner.

Some good comments here...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../home#comments

I better not point out my favorite one!!! ;-)

 

[dancing-loon]

While I'm at it, here is some news I didn't know about....

Morgentaler cleared to file suit in New Brunswick

Sat, August 9, 2008
FREDERICTON -- A New Brunswick court has cleared the way for Dr. Henry Morgentaler to challenge restrictions on abortion funding in the province.

Morgentaler, 85, is trying to force the New Brunswick government to pay for abortions at his clinic in Fredericton. About 700 women a year pay between $550 and $750 for abortions at the Morgentaler clinic. The cost depends on how far along they are in their pregnancies.

Quick math: $650 x 700 = $455,000 in Fredricton alone!!!
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Can...95531-sun.html

"Morgentaler's clinics have an estimated gross annual revenue of $11 million, according to research undertaken by the pro-life group.":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Morgentaler

Not a bad business venture! :--(

 

[tracy]

Look at the cost of the actual procedure. That 455K isn't profit.

 

[dancing-loon]

Look at the cost of the actual procedure. That 455K isn't profit.

I'm aware of that, tracy. :roll:

 

[Zzarchov]

11 million in revenue can also be a terrible business venture, depending on what the costs are. If they are 12 million in costs then it could be horrid.

 

[tracy]

11 million in revenue can also be a terrible business venture, depending on what the costs are. If they are 12 million in costs then it could be horrid.

That was my point though it seemed to be missed by some

 

[coldstream]

A sad day for Canada. Morgentaler receives his Order of Canada today, on the eve of Thanksgiving, originally conceived as thanksgiving for the many blessings this country has received... it now commemorates infants sacrificed to selfishness and moral disorder. Thanks to that intellectual and moral mediocrity, Bev McLachlin, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.... but representing a large part of the Canadian public. I wonder if people really think there won't be consequences from all this.. that we aren't already realizing them.

 

[Zzarchov]

Infants sacrificed? You should ratchet that up to millions, every month almost every single woman murders an infant,

and every time friday night rolls around on CityTV, thousands of teenage boys each murder millions more infants...

The horror...

 

[scratch]

A sad day for Canada. Morgentaler receives his Order of Canada today, on the eve of Thanksgiving, originally conceived as thanksgiving for the many blessings this country has received... it now commemorates infants sacrificed to selfishness and moral disorder. Thanks to that intellectual and moral failure, Bev McLachlin, head of the Supreme Court.... but representing a large part of the Canadian public. I wonder if people really think there won't be consequences from this.

IMO,
It was inevitable.
And, many may disagree with you.

 

[coldstream]

Infants sacrificed? You should ratchet that up to millions, every month almost every single woman murders an infant,

and every time friday night rolls around on CityTV, thousands of teenage boys each murder millions more infants...

The horror...

Not a very bright comment, Zzarchov, life begins at conception, not inception.

 

[Zzarchov]

Not a very bright comment, Zzarchov, life begins at conception, not inception.

So sayeth you, but Canada disagrees as a whole.