Does morality even matter in secular education?

[Praxius]

Praxious, I did exactly that.

I had my children educated in Catholic School, then in private school.

Put me in heavy financial straights, but it was worth it.

Fair enough... but that's what parents should do.... if the available public schools are doing things you don't agree with and don't feel your child should be subjected to, then you as a parent have full rights to take them out of that class/subject or even put them in a private school.... or even home school.

But when it comes to public schooling, if the school/faculty/most of the other students/parents don't see something as a problem and it's only one or two people having concerns.... it'll be a battle to see anything really change.

They for the most part, have to think of the school and the students as a whole and what's best for them, not what's best for one person. (generally speaking of course)

 

[AnnaG]

I have a sneaky suspicion that this might be a troll, too, and judging by the fanatical religiosity, Dennis again comes to mind. Perhaps the little wart is impersonating a female this time.

If it isn't a troll, it needs to grow up and realize their are other people on the planet who are even atheist and still have morals. Neither hubby nor I approve of the abuse of drugs but we are not narrow-minded enough to let that curb our enjoyment of music. If you do, you might as well go live in a cave and never come outside because the world is full of nasty things. Most of us survive to be good people in spite of the nastiness. Get a grip and a life.

 

[Cliffy]

Praxious, I did exactly that.

I had my children educated in Catholic School, then in private school.

Put me in heavy financial straights, but it was worth it.

Now you can be proud that they are clones of the old block.

 

[Curiosity]

Fair enough assessment Karrie

I'm only here as an aftermath of the great Olympic exercise and have been caught up in some of the forum topics and new people here.

If a banned member is posting again - I would have no idea - unless it is myself.
Fortunately for me Chris/Andem has been kind enough to allow me to slide back
into my old spot without too much ID gathering etc. Anyway if I were to be banned it wouldn't be for religion, nor music, nor trolling, it would be for boring people.

I thought the topic worth a shot - because I haven't seen the question asked or statement made anywhere before.

As to where children receive education - including or withholding the study of religion - that would be up to the parents although personally I think children should be exposed to all subjects involving learning and growth and having principles and new thoughts as well. They are subjects well worth sharing with
all the children of the nation...and that would include all religious beliefs.

 

[adopted]

i can be today's fool, or tomorrow's fool -- exclusively. you can fulfill prophecy by declaring me to be today's fool. then you are destined only to die and face judgment. fear God and repent; then you will be ready to hear good news that makes jimmy page's lullabies sound like the fires of hell. until then, your god is your belly, and death is the king over your mortal body. you do not know of what you speak, and you shame yourself openly before all creation.

 

[adopted]

if a self-professed atheist has morals, then he has religion, ipso-facto. you cannot call something right or wrong unless you have a religion that answers all the big questions and therein provides a framework for your ethical decisions. if darwinism is your religion, and you have integrity, then your ethical principals will be framed around the benefit of humanity by resisting the money spent looking after sick people. if you have lots of integrity, you will push toward all movements to destroy the inferior ethnic groups. richard dawkins has religion, but does not have integrity. his feet and hands do not follow his tongue. you can be an eggplant like him, you can be a man of integrity like osama bin laden (with morality based in evil), you can be a man of morals (preaching the Bible but not living it), or you can be one of the few who build your house on the Rock instead of the sand, so that when the storms come, your house will stand.

 

[lone wolf]

Religion doesn't know right from wrong. Just look at the news. Conscience knows ... and that comes from within.

 

[adopted]

that any sort of "goodness" originates from within the human heart is an untested religious theory / ideology in itself. to be sure, this "self-confidence," "follow your heart," "i did it my way," is precisely the religion being taught to my sons in so-called secular schools.

"do what you wanna do" is satan's religion. religious belief in "self-confidence" is in blatant contrast to the Christian belief that "in me, that is in my human flesh, there is no good thing," and hence our message to "trust in the Lord and lean not on our own understanding."

confidence is a very good thing; confidence in something worthy of trust, that is.

charles manson was self-confident, and he "followed his dreams," as did his father who beat him as a child. human beings have a wretched track record proving that their "follow your heart" religion is a miserable failure. and the blood of charles manson didn't save us either... as he noted, he was just what is inside every one of us.

the schools should provide examples of the self-confident and those who followed their dreams -- they confidently followed their dreams into their human ruin and into the fires of hell. this is not a wise religion. it is overtly foolish to those who have eyes to discern light from darkness.

 

[TenPenny]

that any sort of "goodness" originates from within the human heart is an untested religious theory / ideology in itself. to be sure, this "self-confidence," "follow your heart," "i did it my way," is precisely the religion being taught to my sons in so-called secular schools.

I would hope that you're not relying on the school system to teach your child morality, because if that's the case, you've left it too late, and also abandoned your responsibility as a parent.

Don't blame the school system for something that is your responsibility.

 

[lone wolf]

Did I say it comes from the heart? Knowing what is right and what is wrong has nothing to do with angels and devils perched upon your shoulder ... and it sure can't be gleaned from the conflict in a Bible. Parents and community standards generally set the guidelines long before a kid gets much into Sunday School.

 

[adopted]

hi -- no, i am not relying on the public school system to teach my children morality, except to show them the contrasts with godly wisdom. it's the other waifs that i'm concerned about. if i love anybody in this world, should i not speak out against the "secular" religion being taught to children in canada? i do not exist to love and serve my own children only. i have a reasonable duty to have a care where i am able. regards.

 

[lone wolf]

hi -- no, i am not relying on the public school system to teach my children morality, except to show them the contrasts with godly wisdom. it's the other waifs that i'm concerned about. if i love anybody in this world, should i not speak out against the "secular" religion being taught to children in canada? i do not exist to love and serve my own children only. i have a reasonable duty to have a care where i am able. regards.

And what makes you or anyone else the limit others should live by?

 

[Risus]

Praxious, I did exactly that.

I had my children educated in Catholic School, then in private school.

Put me in heavy financial straights, but it was worth it.

You are claiming putting your kids in a catholic school was a smart thing to do? Considering the perversion in the catholic church, that would have been the last place I would have sent my kids...

 

[adopted]

i cannot limit others; however, this is not a justification to neglect showing love to them by pointing out what is worthy of consideration, seeing that the health of their children is at stake. thank you for your thoughts.

 

[gerryh]

Childrens health is NOT at stake, and only a complete moron, completely bereft of any operating brain cells would think so. I would also question as to whether that person should be in charge of any children of their own since they do not have any cognitive abilities.

 

[gopher]

To the people whose favourite past time is bashing people who dare to have faith, morality equals political correctness.

Hmmm. Interesting. After all, you don't have major sex abuse scandals in sectarian schools like you had in Catholic schools. On that basis, why would anyone suggest that parochial education is preferable?

 

[Praxius]

i can be today's fool, or tomorrow's fool -- exclusively. you can fulfill prophecy by declaring me to be today's fool. then you are destined only to die and face judgment. fear God and repent; then you will be ready to hear good news that makes jimmy page's lullabies sound like the fires of hell. until then, your god is your belly, and death is the king over your mortal body. you do not know of what you speak, and you shame yourself openly before all creation.

That works both ways m'dear.

If I don't know what I speak, then as a human yourself, the same can apply to you in equal fashion, since we're all fallible and imperfect.

AKA: We all make mistakes.... who's to say you're not mistaken, but the rest of us are?

Because a book called the bible, written by more fallible humans says so?

Blind leading the blind if you ask me.

 

[Praxius]

if a self-professed atheist has morals, then he has religion, ipso-facto. you cannot call something right or wrong unless you have a religion that answers all the big questions and therein provides a framework for your ethical decisions.

Actually no... a religion is not required for one to believe or hold to certain morals they created or set out for themselves. All one's morals can be summed up by "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you." which has existed long before Christianity.... it is a guideline of how to apply right and wrong in your life based on how you'd wish to be treated.

You don't need a religion to tell you what's right or wrong, all you need is to judge for yourself with your own common sense and reasoning what is right and wrong..... ie: think for yourself.

if darwinism is your religion, and you have integrity, then your ethical principals will be framed around the benefit of humanity by resisting the money spent looking after sick people.

That makes about as much sense as me dictating to you how you should follow your religion and beliefs. If you don't follow a religion or a belief, then how can you sit there and tell those who do how to follow it?

if you have lots of integrity, you will push toward all movements to destroy the inferior ethnic groups.

That sounds more like what Christianity and Islam have attempted to do in the past..... either destroy or assimilate..... kinda hypocritical if you ask me.

richard dawkins has religion, but does not have integrity. his feet and hands do not follow his tongue. you can be an eggplant like him, you can be a man of integrity like osama bin laden (with morality based in evil), you can be a man of morals (preaching the Bible but not living it), or you can be one of the few who build your house on the Rock instead of the sand, so that when the storms come, your house will stand.

Blind leading the blind... I'd suggest sticking to preaching about your own religion and faith then preaching about others and how everybody else should be, because you clearly don't understand alternative ways of living other then your own.

But basically just reading your own words, you have given up a key element into the reason why you believe what you believe.... build your house on a rock then the sand.... AKA: Better be safe then sorry.

Sounds to me that you believe what you believe out of convenience and just to be safe, just in case there is a God wanting to smite you for your doubts.

 

[Praxius]

that any sort of "goodness" originates from within the human heart is an untested religious theory / ideology in itself. to be sure, this "self-confidence," "follow your heart," "i did it my way," is precisely the religion being taught to my sons in so-called secular schools.

What? Being taught how to think for themselves is a form of adopting another religion?

I suppose you'd suggest everybody just walk through life like automated sheeple who only do as they are told?

If that is the case, then wouldn't you think living a life like that would be a complete waste of what "God gave us?"

"do what you wanna do" is satan's religion. religious belief in "self-confidence" is in blatant contrast to the Christian belief that "in me, that is in my human flesh, there is no good thing," and hence our message to "trust in the Lord and lean not on our own understanding."

Yeah wonderful religion you're advertising there... apparently there's nothing good about us at all, so indeed.... do as you're told and live like an Automaton because humans aren't capable of making the right decisions on their own.

So who's telling us what to do?

God.... ok.... how do we know we're doing what he wants?

By following the bible.... .ok..... but that was written by more humans who have nothing good in them at all and incapable of making the right decisions.... thus you're following what other humans told you to.... not God himself, so how do you even know what you believe in is indeed true?

confidence is a very good thing; confidence in something worthy of trust, that is.

What's the point in confidence if we're not supposed to believe in ourselves, what we do, or what we think? We're not even supposed to think or make decisions for ourselves based on what you say.

charles manson was self-confident, and he "followed his dreams," as did his father who beat him as a child. human beings have a wretched track record proving that their "follow your heart" religion is a miserable failure. and the blood of charles manson didn't save us either... as he noted, he was just what is inside every one of us.

Way to try and compare people who don't follow what you follow to Charles Manson.... shall I start dragging out the countless witch burnings, torture, executions, oppression of lesser societies, the Crusades, child molestations from priests of your religion, etc. etc. etc....?

Yeah, your God sure is the better path to follow.... so moral and correct. :roll:

the schools should provide examples of the self-confident and those who followed their dreams -- they confidently followed their dreams into their human ruin and into the fires of hell. this is not a wise religion. it is overtly foolish to those who have eyes to discern light from darkness.

And perhaps schools should provide examples of people such as yourself.

 

[Praxius]

hi -- no, i am not relying on the public school system to teach my children morality, except to show them the contrasts with godly wisdom. it's the other waifs that i'm concerned about. if i love anybody in this world, should i not speak out against the "secular" religion being taught to children in canada? i do not exist to love and serve my own children only. i have a reasonable duty to have a care where i am able. regards.

Indeed, but at the same time, we also have the same right to ensure you don't fill our children's heads with things we don't approve.

You look after your children, we'll look after ours.... but in the end, your and our children will decided for themselves what makes sense to them and what path to follow when the time comes.

One can not force another to believe and follow what they believe to be true.