Dion's national program brings hope
- Thread starter Avro
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You can drive by any high school to see how ineffective cigarette taxes have been.
As with any other tax imposed on industry they'll just pass on the "greening" cost. We'll end up paying the corporate tax and whatever Dion comes up with for us. A better arrangement would be to let the consumers change industry by using our purchasing power. The Automotive industry has already started to react with multiple choices of environmentally friendlier cars. The easiest way to change the world is with your wallet.
As with any other tax imposed on industry they'll just pass on the "greening" cost. We'll end up paying the corporate tax and whatever Dion comes up with for us. A better arrangement would be to let the consumers change industry by using our purchasing power. The Automotive industry has already started to react with multiple choices of environmentally friendlier cars. The easiest way to change the world is with your wallet.
CO2 is a pollutant? CO2 dirties our air and water? What science classes have you been attending? Without CO2 we are dead and the more of it we have the more quickly plants grow.
It's not a carbon dioxide tax, it's a carbon tax. Burning ever more fossil fuels acidifies the ocean. Maybe you think we don't need 50% of the oxygen in the atmosphere. Burning fossil fuels also produces ozone and other harmful air pollutants.
Just because something is a nutrient, doesn't mean it can't also be a pollutant. Never heard of pollution from fertilizer before Walt?
What science classes have you been attending?
Large amounts of carbon dioxide is toxic. Large amounts of anything is toxic. Please argue about something else before everyone fries their emotions and their intelligence.
Indeed.... however Dion's plan seems to want to force our wallets into what he feels is the best solution, which actually has no solution.
All it's going to do is increase the costs in everything we use everyday, with a bull sh*t claim that it'll be balanced through income tax deductions, and yet I don't remember seeing anybody here refuting my original explinations on just how unbalanced that concept is, esspecially to those who either can't file the same taxes due to not being a citizen but working in our country legally, or those who usually don't get anything back on their income taxes in the first place due to some financial complication.
The plan is still stupid, it will remain stupid, and if he plans on revolving an election based around this stupid idea.... I hope his party drops even further and the NDP take their place as opposition..... with any luck they might win majority over both the con parties..... now wouldn't that be a twist?
Late in response, but nobody here in Atlantic Canada is going to put up with it... since the majority of transport and shipping of supplies in this area are still dependant mostly on diesel trucks and trains, not to mention the majority of the power plants in Nova Scotia still are under Coal power, since once again, we don't get enough money in comparison to other proviences to upgrade.
The plan might sound all peachy and fancy for central Canada.... but the rest of the country sure as hell ain't gonna put up with it.
Dion may think it's a wonderful idea, but Dion is also an idiot and have been isolated in his own income bracket for way to long to actually understand what sort of impact this will have on everybody else who's not living off of tax payer's dollars.
And yes.... his carbon tax would be the thing that would fund his party, there is no actual plan or details explaining where this money would goto, just the claim it'd be put into development of new energy saving things.......
Yeah.... and the majority of taxes on smokes were supposed to be going to medical facilities and hospitals to help with funding...... so why are doctors still leaving, hospital beds still being reduced, and it seems to be impossible to recruit new workers?
It's all a crock of sh*t straight out, and I'm all for some plan that might help out the environment, but this plan is empty and hold no objectives, except to increase the cost of everything we do.
Companies will still output the exact same amount of pollution they did before the tax as they will after the tax.... the only people who will be paying for it will be us when we go shopping.
ya, Central Canada.
Its not like we know anything about being robbed of our wealth to bail out the rest of the country.
Not like most of this countries history has been that song and dance.
Its not like we found the east to have better services than we have.
Its not like the equalization formula gets rewritten everytime Alberta has to pony up and pay money, or Ontario actually stops giving money.
Complaining about this as a bad idea is one thing.
The east and west complaining about their wealth being stripped away to benefit central canada is the pot calling the kettle black.
Its not like we know anything about being robbed of our wealth to bail out the rest of the country.
Not like most of this countries history has been that song and dance.
Its not like we found the east to have better services than we have.
Its not like the equalization formula gets rewritten everytime Alberta has to pony up and pay money, or Ontario actually stops giving money.
Complaining about this as a bad idea is one thing.
The east and west complaining about their wealth being stripped away to benefit central canada is the pot calling the kettle black.
For those of you who don't know the full details about ozone, let me explain. Ozone in the stratosphere= good ozone. It protects against UV. Ozone in the troposphere where we live is a harmful chemical. It oxidizes, and in turn produces many volatile organic compounds. Ozone in the troposphere is a by-product of fossil fuel combustion.
It's similar to what I said to Walt. Just because something is beneficial in certain applications doesn't mean it can't also be harmful. That's one of many examples.
It's similar to what I said to Walt. Just because something is beneficial in certain applications doesn't mean it can't also be harmful. That's one of many examples.
Folks...here's something you may or may not find interesting. This is a link
to the audio of Stephane Dion introducing his "Green Plan" to Saskatchewan on
a radio program out here: http://www.newstalk980.com/story/20080627/1715
Whether you are a Liberal, or a Conservative, or some other political affiliation, this
is worth listening to. It is informative both for and against this "Green Plan."
FYI....Ralph Goodale is the one Liberal MP between Saskatchewan and Alberta his
interview to explain the "Green Shift" is also found at the same link listed above.
Jack Layton slams both the Liberals and the Conservatives at the same link.
to the audio of Stephane Dion introducing his "Green Plan" to Saskatchewan on
a radio program out here: http://www.newstalk980.com/story/20080627/1715
Whether you are a Liberal, or a Conservative, or some other political affiliation, this
is worth listening to. It is informative both for and against this "Green Plan."
FYI....Ralph Goodale is the one Liberal MP between Saskatchewan and Alberta his
interview to explain the "Green Shift" is also found at the same link listed above.
Jack Layton slams both the Liberals and the Conservatives at the same link.
You're getting bailed out right now due to the auto industry.... how does it feel?
Well true things tend to last longer the lies.
How come in all of Canada, Ontario has the lowest gas prices, including against Alberta?
Lowest Prices as of the 22nd
Ontario - Kingston: 122.5
Alberta - Lloydminster: 128.9
Manitoba - Winnipeg: 132.8
Saskatchewan - Regina: 133.9
There's no point in comparing any of the other proviences, since they're all beyond 130.
The majority of all the gas prices within Ontario are well under a buck 30 a litre.
Retail Fuel Prices by Province
http://fuelfocus.nrcan.gc.ca/price_map_e.cfm
Now why, pre-tell, is that?
East of where? Thunder Bay?
Why the hell should they have to pay any money in the first place for their own resources? Why should any provience.... including Ontario?
The problem is, is that we all still pay regardless, but since the capital of the country is in Ontario, and Toronto is the biggest city in Canada, that somehow makes you guys prone to dishing out far less then the rest of the proviences, since the rest of the proviences are sending their money directly to Ontario.... where the government is. And then they spend the money on the things to make themselves and their lives better (To better serve the rest of Canada I'm guessing.... pssh) And therefore the provience of Ontario itself doesn't have to spend as much money and funding on itself, compared to the rest of the proviences.... since we're not the big centre of the country and all.
Oh, but once we start bitching to the federal government to help out the rest of the country, it's just the same old story you say and tell us to deal with it ourselves and expect nothing, all the while Ontario keeps sucking the money from us..... yeah, that sounds like a wonderful cycle of things.
Yeah and the rest of Canada likes to identify people in Ontario just like they do with people in the US..... self centred and isolated in your own little worlds.... but so long as you guys get your damn payments from the rest of the proviences for doing absolutely nothing, what do you guys have to complain about?
Yeah, every other provience is just crazy.... you guys are the only one's right.... after all, we're just'm some outback country folk who rarely get a chance to look at dem perddy pictures in dem newspapers to get any edjumication..... eh'huyck *slaps knee and does a jig*
120 gas in Kingston eh? Seeing as I was through there yesterday and it was 131, I gotta know where you are getting Gas.
And no, despite Ontario being in a recession we still pay some 20 billion out to support the East, who have better services than us.
Support for our Auto industry is equivalent to giving some loose change back after you take our wallet.
And no, despite Ontario being in a recession we still pay some 20 billion out to support the East, who have better services than us.
Support for our Auto industry is equivalent to giving some loose change back after you take our wallet.
And yet Alberta doesn't have any? I can see a big oil refinary out behind where I work here in Dartmouth..... not helping much here.
Let's take this one step further shall we:
Canadian Oil Pipelines and Refining Capacity
^ Yes, Ontario has the largest Refinery Capacity..... and yet:
Oil — Remaining Established Reserves, Year-end 2000 (Million Barrels)
^ Now why does Ontario have so many oil refineries when they have no oil apparently?
Considdering Nova Scotia still have oil itself, I see a Refinery out behind my workplace, which means the fuel doesn't have to travel very far..... and yet our prices are higher.
How does that make any sense at all and who's stupid idea was it to make Ontario the central basis of our oil production?
Today is a new day, and Stephane Dion has come out with some more
details on his "Green Plan" and has stated that he is also planning on imposing
a Carbon Tax on certain "non-green" countries that (in his opinion) aren't doing
enough...That would be what is called a Tariff by the rest of us. That'll do wonders
for the domestic economy of Canada I'm sure. Canada (33 million people?) is going
to impose this upon, for example, China (a billion People?). Oh yeah...
What does the Liberal Party claim this Green Plan will cost to administer???
details on his "Green Plan" and has stated that he is also planning on imposing
a Carbon Tax on certain "non-green" countries that (in his opinion) aren't doing
enough...That would be what is called a Tariff by the rest of us. That'll do wonders
for the domestic economy of Canada I'm sure. Canada (33 million people?) is going
to impose this upon, for example, China (a billion People?). Oh yeah...
What does the Liberal Party claim this Green Plan will cost to administer???
Because Corporation's in Ontario built refineries?
Ontario used business accumen to encourage refineries to be built here?
It was our (ontario) great idea to try and make our economy better rather than just not doing jack because being unproductive and letting Ontario support you wasn't an option for Ontario.
They are private refineries, so getting them to build refineries in Ontario was great.
Ontario used business accumen to encourage refineries to be built here?
It was our (ontario) great idea to try and make our economy better rather than just not doing jack because being unproductive and letting Ontario support you wasn't an option for Ontario.
They are private refineries, so getting them to build refineries in Ontario was great.
Not as many as Ontario. And just across the border from Ontario there are also many refineries.
One refinery doesn't quite cut it. You know that Irving Oil is planning on building a new refinery don't you?
Because it's the largest market in Canada.
Nova Scotia doesn't have very much oil. What we have lots of is natural gas. One refinery isn't enough to satisfy NS demand for gasoline, home heating oil, propane, diesel, tar, etc.
What's stupid about private investment? What, you want to nationalize Canadian oil reserves like Socrates? Or you think business should be benevolent, and seek to maintain a consistent market access across the country? Are they going to take a loss in the NWT, Yukon and Nunavut?