Death knell for AGW

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
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Or perhaps we could be a bit cleaner instead of crapping all over the planet we live on just to be on the safe side.
Anyways, I do not care too much about climate change. I am more concerned about dealing with it
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CO2 is not a pollutant and that is the molecule the whole climate crap is about.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
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CO2 is not a pollutant and that is the molecule the whole climate crap is about.
Carbon dioxide can be a pollutant. It depends upon the concentration of it. If you walk into a room with a concentration of say 500 ppm, you would not notice any difficulty. If you walked into a room with 10,000 ppm, you would suffocate if you stayed in it. A general definition of a pollutant is a substance that causes instability or discomfort to a biological system. I would say suffocation qualifies as discomfort.
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
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Carbon dioxide can be a pollutant. It depends upon the concentration of it. If you walk into a room with a concentration of say 500 ppm, you would not notice any difficulty. If you walked into a room with 10,000 ppm, you would suffocate if you stayed in it. A general definition of a pollutant is a substance that causes instability or discomfort to a biological system. I would say suffocation qualifies as discomfort.
Link.
 

Glacier

Electoral Member
Apr 24, 2015
360
0
16
Okanagan
Everything thing is deadly if the concentration is high enough. Even oxygen is also a pollutant if you want to categorize it that way. The truth is though, by any standards both oxygen and carbon dioxide are not toxic pollutants.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,730
11,571
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Low Earth Orbit
If you had an antiquated inefficient industrial empire and couldn't afford to replace it without heavy economic turmoil, would you concoct a plan to scare the sh-t out of people making them believe your inustry will kill them if they don't pay to fix it?

Signed
EVIL CORP LLC
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
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Ludlow

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 7, 2014
13,588
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wherever i sit down my ars
One of my favorite fishing holes was just below dam # 3 on the Spring River. Have to walk a ways but it's worth it. Huge rainbow trout , large and small mouth bass and a catfish or two now and then . You walk down a fairly steep bank and there's a nice little flat spot on the bank of the river. It really is a pretty place surrounded by the red and white oaks, hickories and black walnut trees. There's one thing that gripes my butt though. Trash strewn on the bank And that is typical especially after a weekend. And it is a reflection of the larger picture. People are slobs. We use the resources and enjoy the beauty of these places but we leave our mark. And soon it isn;t what it was. It's only common sense that what ever we use, we need to contribute to it's health. The parasite feeds off of the host while yet contributing nothing to the survival of the host. It's a give and take world. Needs to be a balance of the two.
 

maklm123

Time Out
Nov 21, 2015
1
0
1
32,000 deniers
Posted: May 17, 2008, 12:20 AM
That’s the number of scientists who are outraged by the Kyoto Protocol’s corruption of science

By Lawrence Solomon
Question: How many scientists does it take to establish that a consensus does not exist on global warming? The quest to establish that the science is not settled on climate change began before most people had even heard of global warming.
The year was 1992 and the United Nations was about to hold its Earth Summit in Rio. It was billed as — and was — the greatest environmental and political assemblage in human history. Delegations came from 178 nations — virtually every nation in the world — including 118 heads of state or government and 7,000 diplomatic bureaucrats. The world’s environmental groups came too — they sent some 30,000 representatives from every corner of the world to Rio. To report all this, 7,000 journalists converged on Rio to cover the event, and relay to the publics of the world that global warming and other environmental insults were threatening the planet with catastrophe.
In February of that year, in an attempt to head off the whirlwind that the conference would unleash, 47 scientists signed a “Statement by Atmospheric Scientists on Greenhouse Warming,” decrying “the unsupported assumption that catastrophic global warming follows from the burning of fossil fuels and requires immediate action.”
To a scientist in search of truth, 47 is an impressive number, especially if those 47 dissenters include many of the world’s most eminent scientists. To the environmentalists, politicians, press at Rio, their own overwhelming numbers made the 47 seem irrelevant.
Knowing this, a larger petition effort was undertaken, known as the Heidelberg Appeal, and released to the public at the Earth Summit. By the summit’s end, 425 scientists and other intellectual leaders had signed the appeal.
These scientists — mere hundreds — also mattered for nought in the face of the tens of thousands assembled at Rio. The Heidelberg Appeal was blown away and never obtained prominence, even though the organizers persisted over the years to ultimately obtain some 4,000 signatories, including 72 Nobel Prize winners.
The earnest effort to demonstrate the absence of a consensus continued with the Leipzig Declaration on Global Climate Change — an attempt to counter the Kyoto Protocol of 1997. Its 150-odd signatories also counted for nought. As did the Cornwall Declaration on Environmental Stewardship in 2000, signed by more than 1,500 clergy, theologians, religious leaders, scientists, academics and policy experts concerned about the harm that Kyoto could inflict on the world’s poor.
Then came the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine’s Petition Project of 2001, which far surpassed all previous efforts and by all rights should have settled the issue of whether the science was settled on climate change. To establish that the effort was bona fide, and not spawned by kooks on the fringes of science, as global warming advocates often label the skeptics, the effort was spearheaded by Dr. Frederick Seitz, past president of the National Academy of Sciences and of Rockefeller University, and as reputable as they come.
The Oregon petition garnered an astounding 17,800 signatures, a number all the more astounding because of the unequivocal stance that these scientists took: Not only did they dispute that there was convincing evidence of harm from carbon dioxide emissions, they asserted that Kyoto itself would harm the global environment because “increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth.”
The petition drew media attention, but little of it was for revealing to the world that an extraordinary number of scientists hold views on global warming diametrically opposite to those they are expected to hold. Instead, the press focussed on presumed flaws that critics found in the petition. Some claimed the petition was riddled with duplicate names. They were no duplicates, just different scientists with the same name. Some claimed the petition had phonies. There was only one phony: Spice Girl Geri Halliwell, planted by a Greenpeace organization to discredit the petition and soon removed. Other names that seemed to be phony — such as Michael Fox, the actor, and Perry Mason, the fictional lawyer in a TV series — were actually bona fide scientists, properly credentialled.
Like the Heidelberg Appeal, the Oregon petition was blown away. But now it is blowing back. Original signatories to the petition and others, outraged at Kyoto’s corruption of science, wrote to the Oregon Institute and its director, Arthur Robinson, asking that the petition be brought back.
“E-mails started coming in every day,” he explained. “And they kept coming. “ The writers were outraged at the way Al Gore and company were abusing the science to their own ends. “We decided to do the survey again.”
Using a subset of the mailing list of American Men and Women of Science, a who’s who of Science, Robinson mailed out his solicitations through the postal service, requesting signed petitions of those who agreed that Kyoto was a danger to humanity. The response rate was extraordinary, “much, much higher than anyone expected, much higher than you’d ordinarily expect,” he explained. He’s processed more than 31,000 at this point, more than 9,000 of them with PhDs, and has another 1,000 or so to go — most of them are already posted on a Web site at petitionproject.org.
Why go to this immense effort all over again, when the press might well ignore the tens of thousands of scientists who are standing up against global warming alarmism?
“I hope the general public will become aware that there is no consensus on global warming,” he says, “and I hope that scientists who have been reluctant to speak up will now do so, knowing that they aren’t alone.”
At one level, Robinson, a PhD scientist himself, recoils at his petition. Science shouldn’t be done by poll, he explains. “The numbers shouldn’t matter. But if they want warm bodies, we have them.”
Some 32,000 scientists is more than the number of environmentalists that descended on Rio in 1992. Is this enough to establish that the science is not settled on global warming? The press conference releasing these names occurs on Monday at the National Press Club in Washington.


link the video
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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Everything thing is deadly if the concentration is high enough. Even oxygen is also a pollutant if you want to categorize it that way. The truth is though, by any standards both oxygen and carbon dioxide are not toxic pollutants.
Truth is obviously distinct from fact in your view on this topic, I guess. You should have said, "by any usual standards, both oxygen and carbon dioxide are usually not toxic pollutants". Even water can be toxic.
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
34,845
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Truth is obviously distinct from fact in your view on this topic, I guess. You should have said, "by any usual standards, both oxygen and carbon dioxide are usually not toxic pollutants". Even water can be toxic.
People have been drowned in water.
 

bluebyrd35

Council Member
Aug 9, 2008
2,373
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Ormstown.Chat.Valley
LOL.....Of course the earth will heal itself, however, will the human race or for that matter will the animals, and crops humans depend on continue to survive?? After all the rest of the solar systems planets continue on, just without life as we are used to it.

Whether calling it global warming or cooling makes very little difference if most living beings needing to breath are no longer able to do so. How many people in India and China need to wear masks outside these days?? Some eastern countries have yellow colored air.

But never fear, the earth will heal itself over time.