COVID-19 'Pandemic'

[taxslave]

Re: COVIDD-19 'Pandemic'

If it were truly "free" as we keep hearing we wouldnt see this in Canaduh ;
Survey research commissioned by the Canadian government found that despite having a government-run health system, medical reasons (including uninsured expenses), were cited as the primary cause of bankruptcy by approximately 15 percent of bankrupt Canadian seniors (55 years of age and older).
https://www.fraserinstitute.org › article
The Medical Bankruptcy Myth | Fraser Institute

Found the article but it didn't give much for details and seemed to extrapolate figures from a US study. Also said non insured expenses without explaination.

 

[petros]

Re: COVIDD-19 'Pandemic'

There was a story on the news yesterday. Since the pandemic started, ER visits in Etobicoke (Toronto's busiest ER) have dropped 40%. The testing centre is full but that is now separate from the ER. This means on an average pre-pandemic day 40% of the visits did not have to be done. If they can be cured at home now, they could have been then too. From the times I have had to go to the ER, there are a lot of people there for something that seems trivial (kid with runny nose or cough).

Oodles of sprains that if arent sent to imagining all hell breaks loose when 24hrs of OTC Advil is all that is needed.

 

[pgs]

Re: COVIDD-19 'Pandemic'

You are absolutely correct on the overuse issue.


Among the many problems in the Cdn healthcare experience, there is no consequence for abuse, misuse or ignoring the advice of the Dr., hell, our system rewards those that 'shop' for the diagnosis they seek in addition to the go-forward actions that they (as non medical professionals) deem necessary, after all, they watched an episode of Scrubs or some other emergency room drama so they are damned near expert in the field.


Little Timmy has a slight cough and fever?... Demand a bed in the ICU and a raft of MRIs as a start (until mum can review another couple episodes of Grey's Anatomy)... And why not make these demands?.. Don't cost nuttin'

A friends baby had a cold , the doctor told him she would be fine in a couple of days . He wanted action so went to see another doctor got the same response . Well my friend was overwrought with worry and made an appointment with a third doctor , by the time they arrived for the appointment the cold had cleared up and she was fine . Free health care .

 

[captain morgan]

Re: COVIDD-19 'Pandemic'

Got any data on the overuse issue?

Tell you why I ask. It seems crazy to me that a significant number of people would seek medical attention more than necessary. It ain't a real pleasant experience generally.

I understand there's spoiled brats, Munchhausen Syndrome people (I won't say "sufferers"), and mommy's-little-angel parents, but I'd like to know to what extent (in terms of percentage of total cost) they are before I start supporting draconian measures like making it a crime to not follow doctor's orders.

Has the health-care system in Canada, or one of the provinces, done this kind of analysis?

I'll see if I can find some 3rd party info, however, our system is not integrated to the point where 'multiple visits' for the same problem are tracked between medical offices.


A number of alternative models have been proposed, designed to fit into the existing system all the way from have a $5 'deductible' per visit to allocating a Dr with a family/general practice a set number of patients and be provided a set budget to administer to this stable of patients.


This 2nd model had some great logic behind it in that the Dr and patient are 'partners'... The Doc is motivated to provide the most thorough analysis and solution-set possible in order to have this patient not walk through their doors too often (for the same issue) and the patient is (or should be) motivated to get the best solution in order to retain their health... this model did allow for the Dr to kick someone out of their practice for not taking the advice while simultaneously offering the patient to leave that medical practice if the guidance was not effective

 

[petros]

Re: COVIDD-19 'Pandemic'

Found the article but it didn't give much for details and seemed to extrapolate figures from a US study. Also said non insured expenses without explaination.

A root canal which is a medical expense can ruin a year for many many Canadians.

 

[pgs]

Re: COVIDD-19 'Pandemic'

There was a story on the news yesterday. Since the pandemic started, ER visits in Etobicoke (Toronto's busiest ER) have dropped 40%. The testing centre is full but that is now separate from the ER. This means on an average pre-pandemic day 40% of the visits did not have to be done. If they can be cured at home now, they could have been then too. From the times I have had to go to the ER, there are a lot of people there for something that seems trivial (kid with runny nose or cough).

There must be a reduction of automobile accidents and work related injury .

 

[captain morgan]

Re: COVIDD-19 'Pandemic'

A friends baby had a cold , the doctor told him she would be fine in a couple of days . He wanted action so went to see another doctor got the same response . Well my friend was overwrought with worry and made an appointment with a third doctor , by the time they arrived for the appointment the cold had cleared up and she was fine . Free health care .

I heard a number of versions of that same story.


A situation here in YYC a few years back of a family that took their son to the ER of a city hospital. The son had a serious issue and clearly needed help.


The service wasn't fast enough so the family loaded the son back in the car and drove 45 minutes to a neighboring town to use that ER... The boy unfortunately died en route.


This sad story was made worse when the family publicly blamed the 1st hospital for the sons death and initiated a legal action that failed utterly.

 

[JLM]

Re: COVIDD-19 'Pandemic'

ANother one I noticed in my years of roaming the coast is that residents of remote reserves would all of a sudden need to see a doc on friday afternoon. And the government pays for the flight. Some weekends there would be a whole Beaver load from one rez.

That's funny until you start to realize you are paying for it!

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

Re: COVIDD-19 'Pandemic'

There must be a reduction of automobile accidents and work related injury .

True, there would be some. Safer to work from home and not commute. I think they would need to breakdown the stats of injury type to decide the breakdown of cause.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Re: COVIDD-19 'Pandemic'

I'll see if I can find some 3rd party info, however, our system is not integrated to the point where 'multiple visits' for the same problem are tracked between medical offices.
A number of alternative models have been proposed, designed to fit into the existing system all the way from have a $5 'deductible' per visit to allocating a Dr with a family/general practice a set number of patients and be provided a set budget to administer to this stable of patients.
This 2nd model had some great logic behind it in that the Dr and patient are 'partners'... The Doc is motivated to provide the most thorough analysis and solution-set possible in order to have this patient not walk through their doors too often (for the same issue) and the patient is (or should be) motivated to get the best solution in order to retain their health... this model did allow for the Dr to kick someone out of their practice for not taking the advice while simultaneously offering the patient to leave that medical practice if the guidance was not effective

I like 'em both. I'm particularly fond of "skin in the game" as a regulator of resource use.

But I'd make it a flat percentage of a body's annual income. So a rich person pays $500 a visit, a poor person pays $5.

Kinda like Sweden (I think it's Sweden, might could be some other Scandanivian country) assigns traffic penalties by percentage of income.

 

[Avro52]

Re: COVIDD-19 'Pandemic'

Trump at the end of Feb 26 - “Because of all we’ve done, the risk to the American people remains very low. … When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero. That’s a pretty good job we’ve done."

March 1st - 89 cases.

March 27 - 100,000 cases.

 

[petros]

Re: COVIDD-19 'Pandemic'

I'll see if I can find some 3rd party info, however, our system is not integrated to the point where 'multiple visits' for the same problem are tracked between medical offices.

Yup it is tracked. You can access your lab reports, imaging, reports from specialists and all your meds yourself online just like your Dr can and does.

 

[captain morgan]

Re: COVIDD-19 'Pandemic'

I like 'em both. I'm particularly fond of "skin in the game" as a regulator of resource use.

But I'd make it a flat percentage of a body's annual income. So a rich person pays $500 a visit, a poor person pays $5.

Kinda like Sweden (I think it's Sweden, might could be some other Scandanivian country) assigns traffic penalties by percentage of income.

Bear in mind that Caunkistan currently recognizes that income-based contribution very aggressively through the tax system, however, it wouldn't be an issue all the same.


I lean more to the 2nd model as it offers an element of control to both parties.


A physician that is intuitive, effective and knows their patients can benefit by having to apply fewer resources in order to keep their base client population healthy... An addendum to this model is that as a physician's effectiveness increases, the health authority has the ability to increase that Dr's client base (and corresponding budget).. The better the Doc, the higher their income.


On the flip side, those Docs that churn patients through the system may experience those same patients coming back week after week consuming their resources and essentially making them work harder with the net effect of lowering their relative income (as measured by time).


This model has the benefit of weeding-out/identifying those physicians that are ineffective as well as recognizing those patients that seek advice but aren't willing to take it

 

[Jinentonix]

Re: COVIDD-19 'Pandemic'

Do you expect that people given "free" healthcare will overuse it? Like, go to the doctor for funsies?

They do. Saw a twit who "limped" into the emergency with a blister on her foot and demanded they do something. Even went off on a rant about how she pays taxes and thus pays their salaries blah blah blah. A blister, on her foot, from walking.


By the same token, I've seen NO shortage people playing on their phone waiting to see a doctor at emergency . I'm sorry but if you're lucid enough to play f*cking Candy Crush it's probably NOT an emergency. Then there's the people who go running to the doctor every time they get the sniffles.

 

[captain morgan]

Re: COVIDD-19 'Pandemic'

Yup it is tracked. You can access your lab reports, imaging, reports from specialists and all your meds yourself online just like your Dr can and does.

Are you aware if this same access is available for primary care visits?


When I lived in Winterpeg, there was a news item of an elderly woman that had visited multiple family practice offices 60+ times in a short period of time (5 or 6 months if I recall).


The observation from some of the med professionals was that it wasn't common for some seniors to (unwittingly?) keep heading to the Dr on phantom issues (or the same one over and over) out of loneliness or boredom

 

[Jinentonix]

Re: COVIDD-19 'Pandemic'

I like 'em both. I'm particularly fond of "skin in the game" as a regulator of resource use.

But I'd make it a flat percentage of a body's annual income. So a rich person pays $500 a visit, a poor person pays $5.

Kinda like Sweden (I think it's Sweden, might could be some other Scandanivian country) assigns traffic penalties by percentage of income.

Finland. The location of the world's largest traffic fine. IIRC it was something along the lines of the equivalent of $715,000 USD.

 

[Walter]

Re: COVIDD-19 'Pandemic'

Dr. Anthony Fauci Backtracks On Deadliness Of Virus
https://www.oann.com/dr-anthony-fauci-backtracks-on-deadliness-of-virus/

One of Trump's advisors.

 

[Twin_Moose]

Re: COVIDD-19 'Pandemic'

China's COVID-19 disinformation push, aided by Canadian group, raises concerns about next pandemic

 

[Walter]

Re: COVIDD-19 'Pandemic'

Trump’s Kiplingesque Coronavirus Leadership
He keeps his head when the rest lose theirs.
https://spectator.org/trumps-kiplingesque-coronavirus-leadership/

No wonder the polls are in his favour.

 

[Twin_Moose]

Re: COVIDD-19 'Pandemic'

Confirmed case of COVID-19 shuts down beef plant north of Calgary