"Churchianity"

[Motar]

What is the biblical church? ... who created the church...?

"But what about you?” he asked. 'Who do you say I am?' Simon Peter answered, 'You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.' Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church..." (Matthew 16:15-18 NIV)

The biblical church is first mentioned in the New Testament, Cliffy. In the presence of his disciples, Jesus claims the church as his own creation.

 

[cj44]

I'm processing Cliffy. I make no demand that you seek my concept and abandon your own. I believe God is more than just a concept. You are more than a concept. You are the one and only Cliffy.

 

[JLM]

Dr. J. Vernon McGee

What is "churchianity"? How does it differ from Christianity?

I'll take a stab at it, Christianity is a belief, Churchianity is a venue!

 

[Cliffy]

"But what about you?” he asked. 'Who do you say I am?' Simon Peter answered, 'You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.' Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church..." (Matthew 16:15-18 NIV)

The biblical church is first mentioned in the New Testament, Cliffy. In the presence of his disciples, Jesus claims the church as his own creation.

According to the other apostles, Mary Magdalene was the rock upon which he would build his church. But Paul, the misogynist, couldn't handle the idea of a woman being in charge and change it to Peter. How come Peter's gospel is not in the bible?

The Jewish Messiah was a warrior who would come and run off the Romans and restore the kingdom of Israel. The Romans turned Jesus into a compliant pacifist - "Give unto Rome what is Rome's". The original Christians were a militant bunch who rebelled against Roman occupation.

 

[Spade]

Thanks, Twila, for reminding us to listen to a little wisdom.
Dan Dennett: Responding to Pastor Rick Warren - YouTube

 

[Liberalman]

The Christians are too lazy to follow the rules of the church just because they are saved because of Jesus where the Jewish people have to follow the rules of their church just because their Messiah is on his way.

 

[Motar]

According to the other apostles, Mary Magdalene was the rock upon which he would build his church. But Paul, the misogynist, couldn't handle the idea of a woman being in charge and change it to Peter.

A cardinal law of hermeneutics, Cliffy involves using Scripture to interpret Scripture. Here is a sampling of Scripture's use of the "rock" symbol:

"There is no one holy like the Lord; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God." (1 Samuel 2:2 NIV)

"For who is God besides the Lord? And who is the Rock except our God?" (Psalm 18:31 NIV)

"Trust in the Lord forever, for the Lord, the Lord himself, is the Rock eternal." (Isaiah26:4 NIV)

Here is a variation of the same theme using the "stone" symbol:

"The Lord Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy, he is the one you are to fear, he is the one you are to dread. He will be a holy place; for both Israel and Judah he will be a stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." (Isaiah 8:13-14 NIV)

"Jesus is 'the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone." (Acts 4:11 NIV) (Peter's inspired words)

"As it is written: 'See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame." (Romans 9:33 NIV) (Paul's inspired words)

"As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him — you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual houseto be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 2:4-5 NIV) (Peter's inspired words)

OT prophets and NT apostles point to Jesus as the foundation of the church.

 

[Twila]

Thanks, Twila, for reminding us to listen to a little wisdom.
Dan Dennett: Responding to Pastor Rick Warren - YouTube

I like listening to his philosophy. He's not....militant...not pushy and so far as I can tell very respectful.

 

[Cliffy]

A cardinal law of hermeneutics, Cliffy involves using Scripture to interpret Scripture. Here is a sampling of Scripture's use of the "rock" symbol:

"There is no one holy like the Lord; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God." (1 Samuel 2:2 NIV)

"For who is God besides the Lord? And who is the Rock except our God?" (Psalm 18:31 NIV)

"Trust in the Lord forever, for the Lord, the Lord himself, is the Rock eternal." (Isaiah26:4 NIV)

Here is a variation of the same theme using the "stone" symbol:

"The Lord Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy, he is the one you are to fear, he is the one you are to dread. He will be a holy place; for both Israel and Judah he will be a stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." (Isaiah 8:13-14 NIV)

"Jesus is 'the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone." (Acts 4:11 NIV) (Peter's inspired words)

"As it is written: 'See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame." (Romans 9:33 NIV) (Paul's inspired words)

"As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him — you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual houseto be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 2:4-5 NIV) (Peter's inspired words)

OT prophets and NT apostles point to Jesus as the foundation of the church.

Scripture that is forgery and plagiarized doesn't prove anything. Go back to the original scriptures, the Gnostic Gospels, if you want to seek the truth.

 

[Motar]

I'll take a stab at it, Christianity is a belief, Churchianity is a venue!

You make an important distinction, JLM. Christianity is an individual estate, while Churchianity is a corporate one:

"The system of Romanism and the system of Protestantism, as they are revealed in the great denominations which have departed from the faith, to me are the organizations which will eventually bring the apostate church because they have departed from the great tenets and doctrines of Christian faith." (J Vernon McGee, Thru the Bible)

Even more, these corporations have departed from Christ.

 

[gerryh]

Even more, these corporations have departed from Christ.

kinda like you have.

 

[JLM]

Scripture that is forgery and plagiarized doesn't prove anything. Go back to the original scriptures, the Gnostic Gospels, if you want to seek the truth.

Which book of the Bible does one find those? Genesis?

"But what about you?” he asked. 'Who do you say I am?' Simon Peter answered, 'You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.' Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church..." (Matthew 16:15-18 NIV)

The biblical church is first mentioned in the New Testament, Cliffy. In the presence of his disciples, Jesus claims the church as his own creation.

For years and years I had absolutely no use whatsoever for churches, but lately I've changed my opinion by about 2%. They do engage in some charitable work to help the less fortunate, which is good. I was raised and confirmed Anglican (my mother's idea) but I've never followed up on it. I think at this late stage if I was to get involved with any denomination it would probably be with the Salvation Army.

 

[Cliffy]

Which book of the Bible does one find those? Genesis?

They were left out of the bible for purely political reasons. Almost all were destroyed by Rome but one set survived. It was discovered in 1945 in Egypt, in the desert. Google it and you will find tons of stuff on them.

 

[Motar]

For years and years I had absolutely no use whatsoever for churches, but lately I've changed my opinion by about 2%. They do engage in some charitable work to help the less fortunate, which is good. I was raised and confirmed Anglican (my mother's idea) but I've never followed up on it. I think at this late stage if I was to get involved with any denomination it would probably be with the Salvation Army.

You raise another important distinction concerning the church, JLM.

At times the designation "church" is used biblically to refer to the historic, global body of believers: "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church..." (Matthew 16:18a NIV)

And on other occasions, the term "church" refers to a local congregation of Christians: "If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector." (Matthew 18:17 NIV)

Either way, the biblical church (body of Christ) includes anyone throughout history or the world who is genuinely devoted to Christ and practically engaged in his redemptive mission. Practical engagement includes Christian conduct and charity towards others.

 

[darkbeaver]

Nonsense. The "noble savage," as I just said to Eagle, was the object of the most vicious hatred and defamation for a centuries. It didn't wear off until several decades after we were completely crushed.

If you'd like, I'll post some of the quotes from the great and the good of American history on the subject of how subhuman Indians are and how the only alternative is "extermination," which was the word they used before "genocide" was coined.

What you say is true and reflects exactly the treatment Palestinians endure at the hands of Israeli mad dogs. And there is a solid connection between the two continuing genocides.

Either way, the biblical church (body of Christ) includes anyone throughout history or the world who is genuinely devoted to Christ and practically engaged in his redemptive mission. Practical engagement includes Christian conduct and charity towards others.

I got to disagree with you on the" throughout history" remark. In the ten thousand or so years that the force Christ has been revered and worshiped only the short period during the last fifteen centuries would be recognizable as Christianity. The one or the way was practically universal for a very long time.

Matter mother Mary- all the same, the church was built of matter by spirit the dual aspects of the universe, spirit is the father matter is the mother, the father is positive the mother negative together anything is possible. So the rock that the church was built upon was matter the mother of nature.

 

[Motar]

I got to disagree with you on the" throughout history" remark. In the ten thousand or so years that the force Christ has been revered and worshiped only the short period during the last fifteen centuries would be recognizable as Christianity. The one or the way was practically universal for a very long time.

I agree, DB. Christ existed long before the first century incarnation. The Hebrew concept of Christ (messiah) pre-dates the New Testament. Moses includes Christ in the Hebrew record of creation. John elaborates on the eternal nature of Christ:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning." (John 1:1-2 NIV)

Matter mother Mary- all the same, the church was built of matter by spirit the dual aspects of the universe, spirit is the father matter is the mother, the father is positive the mother negative together anything is possible. So the rock that the church was built upon was matter the mother of nature.

I have to disagree about the rock upon which the church is built. The church of Christ is a spiritual construction, designed to outlive the material rock (earth):

"As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 2:4-5 NIV)

 

[JLM]

There's one thing in Biblical discussions that kind of confuses me. Before we can validify Christianity, we have to figure out if the Bible is a bunch of bullsh*t or not and toward this end people keep quoting parts of the Bible. It's the same as using quotes from politicians to decide if Gov't is corrupt or not.

 

[Cliffy]

 

[Spade]

I always bet on the Horus that has a record of coming first. Second comings yearnings are place tickets scattered on the parimutuel floor.

 

[EagleSmack]

Horus was born to the goddess Isis after she retrieved all the dismembered body parts of her murdered husband Osiris, except his ***** which was thrown into the Nile and eaten by a catfish,[7][8] or sometimes by a crab, and according to Plutarch's account (see Osiris) used her magic powers to resurrect Osiris and fashion a gold phallus[9] to conceive her son (older Egyptian accounts have the ***** of Osiris surviving).

Such fail...