Christian Support for Killing Iraqis

JBeee

Time Out
Jun 1, 2007
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by Jacob G. Hornberger

Among the things about the Iraq War that I have never been able to understand is how American Christians have been able, in good conscience, to support this war.

After all, no one can deny that neither Iraq nor the Iraqi people ever attacked the United States. That makes the United States the aggressor — the attacker — in this particular conflict. How could American Christians support the killing of Iraqis in such a war of aggression? How could they reconcile this with God’s sacred commandment, Thou shalt not murder.

One possibility is that Americans initially viewed the Iraq War as one of self-defense. Placing their trust in their president and vice-president, they came to the conclusion that Iraq was about to unleash WMDs on American cities. Therefore, they concluded, America had the right to defend itself from this imminent attack, much as an individual has the moral right to use deadly force to defend his life from someone who is trying to murder him.

But once the WMDs failed to materialize, American Christians did not seem to engage in any remorse or regret over all the Iraqis who had been killed in the invasion. It was all marked up as simply an honest mistake. At the same time, hardly anyone called for a formal investigation into whether the president and the vice president had intentionally misled Americans into supporting the war based on bogus exaggerations of the WMD threat.

After the WMDs failed to materialize, American Christians had an option: They could have called for the immediate withdrawal of all U.S. troops. Instead, they did the exact opposite. They supported the continued occupation of Iraq, with full knowledge that U.S. troops would have to continue killing Iraqis in order to solidify the occupation.

That’s when Christians began supporting a new rationale for killing Iraqis: that any Iraqi who resisted the U.S. invasion or occupation was a terrorist and, therefore, okay to kill. Since terrorists were bad people, the argument went, it was okay to support the killing of Iraqis who were resisting the invasion and occupation of their country.

Yet, rarely would any Christian ask himself the important, soul-searching questions: Why didn’t Iraqis have the moral right to resist the invasion and occupation of their country, especially if that invasion and occupation had been based on a bogus principle (i.e., the WMD threat)? Why did their resistance convert them into terrorists? Why did U.S. troops have the moral and religious right to kill people who were defending their country from invasion and occupation?

Instead, people in Christian churches all across the land simply just kept “supporting the troops.” I suspect part of the reasoning has to do with the mindset that is inculcated in public schools all across the land — that in war, it’s “our team” vs. “their team,” and that Americans have a moral duty to support “our team,” regardless of the facts.

Among the most fascinating rationales for supporting the killing of Iraqis that American Christians have relied upon has been the mathematical argument. It goes like this: Saddam Hussein would have killed a larger number of Iraqis than the U.S. government has killed in the invasion and occupation. Therefore, the argument goes, it’s okay to support the invasion and occupation, which have killed countless Iraqis.
But under Christian doctrine, does God really provide for a mathematical exception to his commandment against killing? Let’s see how such reasoning would be applied here at home.

Let’s assume that the D.C. area is besieged by two snipers, who are killing people indiscriminately. Let’s assume that they’re killing people at the rate of 5 per month. That would mean that at the end of the year, they would have killed 60 people.

One day, the cops learn that the two snipers are parked in a highway rest area. There are also 25 other people there, all Americans, men, women, and children, and all innocent.

The Pentagon offers to drop a bomb on the parking lot, which would definitely snuff out the lives of the snipers. The problem is that it would also snuff out the lives of the other 25 people.

Under Christian principles, would it be okay to drop the bomb? I would hope that most Christians would say, No! As Christians, we cannot kill innocent people even if by doing so, we rid the world of those snipers. If we cannot catch the snipers except by dropping the bomb, then we simply have to let them get away. God does not provide a mathematical justification for killing innocent people.

Yet, isn’t that precisely the mathematical analysis that has been used by Christians to justify their support for the killing of Iraqis. What’s the difference?

In their blind support for “our team” and for “supporting the troops” in Iraq, American Christians seem to have forgotten an important point about government and God: When the laws or actions of one’s government’s contradict the laws of God, the Christian has but one proper course of action — to leave behind the laws of man and to follow the laws of God.
 

Spade

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Christianity is so far from the teachings it purports to observe, it boggles the mind! Just before launching the Iraq War, Bush spoke to a conference of religious broadcasters outlining his intent to attack unilaterally. He received a standing ovation. Go figure!
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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People who question authority tend not to be religious. People who are religious tend not to question authority.

The President and religious leaders told us the Iraq war was just. People who tended to question authority demanded proof. The religious trusted their religious and political authorities.

God is pro-war

[SIZE=-1]Posted: January 31, 2004[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]1:00 am Eastern[/SIZE]

[FONT=Palatino, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times, serif]By Rev. Jerry Falwell[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1]© 2009 WorldNetDaily.com [/SIZE]



...President Bush declared war in Iraq to defend innocent people. This is a worthy pursuit. In fact, Proverbs 21:15 tells us: "It is joy to the just to do judgment: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity."

One of the primary purposes of the church is to stop the spread of evil, even at the cost of human lives. If we do not stop the spread of evil, many innocent lives will be lost and the kingdom of God suffers.

Finally, some reading this column will surely ask, "Doesn't the sixth commandment say, 'Thou shalt not kill?'"
Actually, no; it says: "Thou shalt not commit murder." ...

God is pro-war

George Bush: 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq'





President told Palestinians God also talked to him about Middle East peace
George Bush believes he is on a mission from God...

George Bush: 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq' | World news | The Guardian





Greenspan admits Iraq was about oil, as deaths put at 1.2m
The man once regarded as the world's most powerful banker has bluntly declared that the Iraq war was 'largely' about oil.

Appointed by Ronald Reagan in 1987 and retired last year after serving four presidents, Alan Greenspan has been the leading Republican economist for a generation and his utterings instantly moved world markets.

In his long-awaited memoir - out tomorrow in the US - Greenspan, 81, who served as chairman of the US Federal Reserve for almost two decades, writes: 'I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil.'

In The Age of Turbulence: Adventures in a New World, he is also crystal clear on his opinion of his last two bosses, harshly criticising George W Bush for 'abandoning fiscal constraint' and praising Bill Clinton's anti-deficit policies during the Nineties as 'an act of political courage'. He also speaks of Clinton's sharp and 'curious' mind, and 'old-fashioned' caution about the dangers of debt. Greenspan's damning comments about the war come as a survey of Iraqis, which was released last week, claims that up to 1.2 million people may have died because of the conflict in Iraq - lending weight to a 2006 survey in the Lancet that reported similarly high levels....

Greenspan admits Iraq was about oil, as deaths put at 1.2m | World news | The Observer

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]April 22, 2004 by Inter Press Service [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]US Majority Still Believe in Iraq's WMD, al-Qaeda Ties [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]by Jim Lobe[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]WASHINGTON - U.S. public perceptions about former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein's alleged ties to al-Qaeda and stocks of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) continues to lag far behind the testimony of experts, boosting chances that President George W Bush will be re-elected, according to a survey and analysis released Thursday. [/FONT]


Despite statements by such officials as the Bush administration's former chief weapons inspector, David Kay; its former anti-terrorism chief, Richard Clarke; former chief United Nations weapons inspector Hans Blix, as well as admissions by senior administration officials themselves, a majority of the public still believes Iraq was closely tied to the al-Qaeda terrorist group and had WMD stocks or programs before U.S. troops invaded the country 13 months ago....

US Majority Still Believe in Iraq's WMD, al-Qaeda Ties

That said, many religious people and their leaders spoke out against the war. They just weren't a majority.

51 Protestant, Orthodox, Catholic, Evangelical Leaders
Petition President Bush To Reconsider Iraq Invasion
September 12, 2002, WASHINGTON, DC - Fifty-one heads of American Protestant and Orthodox churches and organizations and of Roman Catholic religious orders today announced opposition to U.S. military action against Iraq. In a letter to President Bush, the church leaders acknowledged that “Mr. Hussein poses a threat to his neighbors and to his own people, [but] we nevertheless believe it is wrong, as well as detrimental to U.S. interests” to launch an attack on Iraq.

The letter, convened by a national coalition named Churches for Middle East Peace, stated, “We oppose on moral grounds the United States taking further military action against Iraq now.” Citing the probable humanitarian consequences, civilian casualties, and the chaotic political aftermath of such a war, the church leaders noted that U.S. military force could easily destabilize the region with possible catastrophic results and further increase anti-American sentiment in the Middle East and Gulf.

General Secretary Bob Edgar of the National Council of Churches, a joint ministry of 36 Protestant and Orthodox denominations, stated, “We do not need to march down the path to Armageddon. Pre-emptive military action now being contemplated by the Administration cannot be morally justified.”...

Christian Leaders to Bush: Reconsider Plans to Invade Iraq

For me, the Iraq war was a test of sorts. It was a clear way to tell the difference between peple who are capable of independent critical thought and people who are easily manipulated.

It also separates religious and political leaders who support peace and justice from those who support war crimes and crimes against humanity.

BTW, Harper and Ignatieff both supported the Iraq war.
 
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Colpy

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Christians (especially Quakers) helped bring slavery to an end in Europe and the USA, because of their religious belief.

About half of those that hid Jews from the Germans, and survived to talk about it, said they did so because of their Christianity.

As we speak, Christian missionaries work to bring education and medicine to the poorest places on earth. Many of the very best and most efficient charities are Christian.

The only organized protest in Britain against World War One was led by the Baptists, of all people.

Modern democratic philosophy is based on the ideas of John Locke, who believed in the equality of man in the eyes of God.......and the fact "all men are created equal" meant every man needed human rights, and a voice in his own governmment..........

And on and on and on and on....
 

Cliffy

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..and kidnapped thousands of native Canadian children and put them in prison camps (residential schools), beat and raped thousands and murdered an estimated 50 thousand of them and buried them in unmarked graves. We can safely say that this scenario has been repeated in many third world countries throughout the planet. We won't get into the genocide of millions (estimated as high as 100 million) of aboriginal peoples in the Americas. I have no estimates for Africa or Asia, but I am assuming something similar.

We could also get into the Inquisition and Witch hunts, the massacre of the Knights Templar and ..... on and on...

It would seem that for every charitable act there were many more atrocities.
 

Johnnny

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Among the things about the Iraq War that I have never been able to understand is how American Christians have been able, in good conscience, to support this war.

American Christians did not seem to engage in any remorse or regret over all the Iraqis who had been killed in the invasion

This article is biased it does not take into a effect the amount of christians who opposed the war in america, by protesting.

Its impossible to say all american christians supported the war even if one opposed the war...
 

Spade

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According to Gallup polls prior to the 2003 invasion, self-declared Christians supported the war by a 2 to 1 margin, whereas support among those who said religion was unimportant in their lives was evenly divided.

Praise the Lord and George W. Bush

These poll results indicate how modern Christians (at least in the USA) depart from Jesus' teachings of peace, pacifism, and brotherhood.
 

Johnnny

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Look im mad at americans on alot of things, but we cant generalize them no matter what there beliefs.

The polls showed that american christians supported the war in iraq, so for every 2 americans that supported the war there was 1 that didnt.

These articles are clearly biased cause it is assuming that all the christians act the same way... This is propoganda,
 

Colpy

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..and kidnapped thousands of native Canadian children and put them in prison camps (residential schools), beat and raped thousands and murdered an estimated 50 thousand of them and buried them in unmarked graves. We can safely say that this scenario has been repeated in many third world countries throughout the planet. We won't get into the genocide of millions (estimated as high as 100 million) of aboriginal peoples in the Americas. I have no estimates for Africa or Asia, but I am assuming something similar.

We could also get into the Inquisition and Witch hunts, the massacre of the Knights Templar and ..... on and on...

It would seem that for every charitable act there were many more atrocities.

You need to read a little history.

First of all, the that whites killed 100 million Amerindians in some genocidal orgy is ludicrous. Not that they behaved well, and not that the Church did not support murder, especially in South america........but you have exaggerated to an immense extent.

In the 15th century, there were probably 120 million inhabitants of the Americas.......By 1550, there were about 12 million....but what killed them was disease (mostly measles, to which they had no resistence). Yes, whites, especially the Spanish, engaged in grande wholesale murder, often supported by priests, but it was a priest (de la Casas: google him) that stepped up to the plate and devoted his life to the defense of natives. No one else bothered. In addition, the Jesuits were created to convert, and to protect native peoples......sometimes even against their own Church (see the movie The Mission, it is accurate to the smallest detail on the history....)

50,000 dead in Anglican schools???? From what???? Got a link?

Probably disease.....and I doubt very much 50,000.

As for the witch hunts, they were carried out almost exclusively by secular authorities....yep, that's right.......

As a comparison, I would say that Christians, alone and when brought together in a church, have done many times more good than evil.......
 

Goober

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JBeee
What then is your opinion on the Genocide in Sudan – where the Arab League prevents or obstructs any actions to stop it -? Perhaps you should add other faiths to your topic before starting one.
 

Cliffy

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It was not only the Anglicans that ran Residential schools. It was also Catholics and United churches. Perhaps some of the fifty thousand died of disease but many were murdered as testified to in many court cases. Some died of "medical experiments", some died of abuse and some died because they gave up living under such oppression and abuse.

Certainly many Amerindians died of diseases. In my area the Jesuits came here during one of the many Small Pox epidemics with a vaccine but would only administer if the natives converted to Catholicism. Many tribes thought the Jesuits were trying to poison them, did not trust them or did not want to convert so they died.

A lot of the dying in the east was recognized as being caused by disease the white settlers brought upon the natives and that was used to their advantage as they moved west. Although some if not most stories of diseased blankets are exaggerated, knowledge that they were spreading disease just by entering a new territory was taken advantage of. To some degree it was intentional.
 

Tyr

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Christianity is so far from the teachings it purports to observe, it boggles the mind! Just before launching the Iraq War, Bush spoke to a conference of religious broadcasters outlining his intent to attack unilaterally. He received a standing ovation. Go figure!

Bush spoke to a conference of religious broadcasters outlining his intent to attack unilaterally. He received a standing ovation.


In the "guise" of being "christian", many business leaders see wealth being generated from a poor destitute country for their own bottom line.

But you are right. The Rush Limbaughs. Newt Gingrichs, Pat Buchanan's, Reagans and Bush's manically justify their fringe politcal views and expanionists policies as "Gods Work"

Today's "christian" is far removed from the original intent of Christianity
 

Tyr

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You need to read a little history.

First of all, the that whites killed 100 million Amerindians in some genocidal orgy is ludicrous. Not that they behaved well, and not that the Church did not support murder, especially in South america........but you have exaggerated to an immense extent.

In the 15th century, there were probably 120 million inhabitants of the Americas.......By 1550, there were about 12 million....but what killed them was disease (mostly measles, to which they had no resistence). Yes, whites, especially the Spanish, engaged in grande wholesale murder, often supported by priests, but it was a priest (de la Casas: google him) that stepped up to the plate and devoted his life to the defense of natives. No one else bothered. In addition, the Jesuits were created to convert, and to protect native peoples......sometimes even against their own Church (see the movie The Mission, it is accurate to the smallest detail on the history....)

50,000 dead in Anglican schools???? From what???? Got a link?

Probably disease.....and I doubt very much 50,000.

As for the witch hunts, they were carried out almost exclusively by secular authorities....yep, that's right.......

As a comparison, I would say that Christians, alone and when brought together in a church, have done many times more good than evil.......

Now that's just silly and defelective. Humourous though...:lol:
 

Spade

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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"I saw in the whole Christian world a licence of fighting at which even barbarous nations might blush. Wars were begun on trifling pretexts or none at all, and carried on without any reference of law, Divine or human" [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]~ Hugo Grotius[/FONT]
 

Tyr

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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"I saw in the whole Christian world a licence of fighting at which even barbarous nations might blush. Wars were begun on trifling pretexts or none at all, and carried on without any reference of law, Divine or human" [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]~ Hugo Grotius[/FONT]


"Christianity hath harmonized the conduct of war."

- William Paley, Archdeacon of Saragossa

 

Colpy

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Yep......and the non Christian world has been an island of peace, and love....

8O

Just for starters, atheist communists murdered about 100 million people in the twentieth century......that puts all the other murders to shame at the feebleness of their efforts.
 

Liberalman

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Christians are absolved of any wrong doings because of their belief in Jesus Christ who died for their sins.

Most of the tyrants in history were Christians and truly believe that they are saved and will go to heaven.

It’s only the Christian soldiers that are deployed in the war zone in the killing fields that realize that they are truly screwed so when they are killed they can tell Jesus face to face what they really think.
 

Spade

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Yep......and the non Christian world has been an island of peace, and love....

8O

Just for starters, atheist communists murdered about 100 million people in the twentieth century......that puts all the other murders to shame at the feebleness of their efforts.

Firstly, Hitler was Catholic.
Secondly, Stalin was Orthodox and educated in a seminary. His mother hoped he would be a priest.
So, who were these atheists and whom did they kill?