Chavez... tick tick tick

[B00Mer]

American claims that Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is a criminal are pretty outrageous considering they have yet to hold anyone in the Bush administration accountable for starting the unprovoked Iraq war which resulted in the violent deaths hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians and made millions more homeless refugees.

I guess you didn't read my post.. above yours.. the guy is a thug.. In Latin American politics.. that's not really a new thing..

However, he is responsible for 1000's (I don't know where ES came up with data on millions), nonetheless, Hugo Chavez is a mass murderer responsible for 1000's of deaths.. not directly.. just by where he is funding his money too.. Hugo Chavez funded the guerra Contra in Colombia who are responsible for killing of police, politicians, judges, kidnappings and general slaughter, rape and murder of innocent civilians.

Trying to tie Bush to Hugo is just stupid.. your a socialist.. your posts scream socialism.. which is not a bad thing.. however, when people defend leaders such as Hugo Chavez, Castro or Ahmadinejad - I think those people should go live in that country.. of course we wouldn't hear from you anymore because free speech is outlawed.. so you couldn't post here anymore.

How to Cope with Living Under a Dictatorship: 7 steps - wikiHow

 

[earth_as_one]

Boomer, Your post screams ignorance about Hugo Chavez and speaks volumes about the effectiveness of demonizing propaganda unsupported by facts or evidence..

First off, Hugo Chavez was democartically elected and then re-elected by popular vote:

Chávez won the presidency on 6 December 1998 with 56.4% of the popular vote. His nearest opponent was Henrique Salas Römer with about 40%

In April 1999, a national referendum was held, the question being whether to create an elected assembly to draw up a new Constitution of Venezuela. The result of the referendum was 71.8% in favour.

Elections for the new unicameral National Assembly were held on 30 July 2000. During this same election, Chávez himself stood for reelection. Chávez's coalition garnered a commanding two-thirds majority of seats in the National Assembly while Chávez was reelected with 60% of the votes. The Carter Center monitored the 2000 presidential election; their report on that election stated that, due to lack of transparency, CNE partiality, and political pressure from the Chávez government that resulted in early elections, it was unable to validate the official CNE results.[42] However, they concluded that the presidential election legitimately expressed the will of the people.

Venezuelan coup attempt of 2002
After Chávez resumed his presidency in April 2002, he ordered several investigations to be carried out, and their official results supported Chávez's assertions that the 2002 coup was sponsored by the United States

In 2005, President Chávez initiated a program to provide cheaper heating fuel for poor people in several areas of the United States (New York Daily News, 21 September 2006). The program was expanded in September 2006 to include four of New York City's five boroughs, earmarking 25 million gallons of fuel for low-income New York residents this year at 40% off the wholesale market price. That quantity provides sufficient fuel to heat 70,000 apartments, covering 200,000 New Yorkers, for the entire winter

Chávez again won the OAS and Carter Center certification of the national election on 3 December 2006 with 63% of the vote,

On 15 February 2009, Chávez won a referendum to eliminate term limits,[165] allowing him to run for re-election indefinitely.[166] Polls show most Venezuelans do not want him to continue indefinitely;

History of Venezuela (1999

Second... PLease post a link supporting your mistaken belief that Hugo Chavez has murdered or tortured anyone. Hugo Chavez main crime appears to be sticking up for the Venezuela's poor and middle class and taxing the exploitation of Venezuela's resources. I have never seen any evidence that Chavez's won fixed elections, runs the country like a dictator or that he has murdered or tortured anyone.

 

[EagleSmack]

ES claimed falsely that Chavez has murdered thousands and tortured millions. I proved those claims are ridiculously false.



However Chavez is NOT a mass murderer or war criminal as ES claimed and I challenge anyone who believes otherwise to make their case with references to accurate sources of information as I did.

Chavez is a mass murderer. He's killed and tortured thousands... mostly women and children. Torturing his rivals and their children in his prisons.

Stealing elections... trampling on the freedoms of his people.

And now he is dying for it.

http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Anger-at-Chavez-over-rights-Group-accuses-2768826.php

 

[earth_as_one]

From ES's link:​

...Chavez, who is facing opposition efforts to mount a referendum to remove him from office, has denied that his government violated the rights of demonstrators during a week of protests that began Feb. 27. He has claimed that some of the protesters were armed and violent... ...Human Rights Watch said 13 people had been killed in the protests. It was unclear how many had died at the hands of the National Guard and how many had been killed by armed protesters. About 400 people were arrested...​

1) That might be 13 people (depending on who killed whom) killed by govenment forces, not thousands as you claimed.​

2) The decision to use lethal force was allegedly in response to armed protestors and likely was decided by officers at the protest and not Hugo Chavez. Try threatening an American police officer with a gun or a knife and you'll likely get the same result..​

BTW Hugo Chavez haters, its ok to hate Chavez because he stood up for poor and middle class Venezuela. That would be a dumb viewpoint if you are poor or middle class, but everyone is entitled to an opinion about Chavez. But hating Chavez for things he's never done based un unsupported claims by demonizing propaganda, only proves you aren't that bright and your opinions shouldn't be taken more seriously than opinions expressed on US cable news.​

 

[EagleSmack]

That's just one of many articles that proves you lie. One incident of the thousands that this brutal dictator ordered.

He is a tyrant... and the tyrant is dying! LMAO

 

[coldstream]

Chavez was an American creation.

If the U.S. hadn't imposed dictatorships on South American nations in the Cold War.. most notoriously with the Pinochet (Chile) and Videla (Argentina) regimes in the 1970s.. with their Dirty Wars and thousands disappeared (mostly students, writers, journalists, democratic politicians, union leaders NOT revolutionaries), i doubt Chavez would have been elected.. and more moderate and progressive forces would have been in control. America radicalized the political climate of South America.. by empowering these tinhorn generals.

America's tampering in Latin America goes back to the ouster of Jacabo Arbenz in Guatemala in the 50s (and before), with his modest proposals for land reform.. which lead to a decades long civil war that cost the lives of 10s of thousands throughout Central America.. all to save the banana plantations of the United Fruit Company.

So i'm no admirer of Chavez.. but i know the context in which he was elected.

 

[B00Mer]

Chavez was an American creation. If the U.S. hadn't imposed dictatorships on South American nations in the Cold War.. most notoriously with the Pinochet (Chile) and Videla (Argentina) regimes.. with their dirty wars and disappeared, i doubt Chavez would have been elected.. and more moderate and progressive forces would have been in control. America's tampering goes back to the ouster of Arbenz in Guatemala in the 50s.. which lead to a decades long civil war that cost the lives of 10s of thousands.. all to save the banana plantations of the United Fruit Company.

100% in agreement with the above statement.. worse, the generals that killed thousands of innocent people where giving amnesty in the United States and moved to Florida. Now they are trying to extradite them up trumped up charges, once it was found out..

Also here is a nice link.. War criminal in Canada.. cough.

Suspected Guatemalan War Criminal Faces Immigration Fraud Charge in US | Fox News Latino

So i'm no admirer of Chavez.. but i know the context in which he was elected.

Chavez is a thug.. you need your head examined if you admire Chavez.. don't get me wrong, he "tried" to do good by his country, just aligned himself with the wrong bunch while doing it.

 

[EagleSmack]

Hey does anyone know how long you can keep someone on life support after they died of cancer?


tick...tick...tick...

 

[B00Mer]

Hey does anyone know how long you can keep someone on life support after they died of cancer?


tick...tick...tick...

Where is your source that he has died of Cancer already??

A person can be put on life support for many reasons, it does not mean he is dead..

Wouldn't you be the "King without clothes" if he came out of the hospital to great his people after a long recovery. Don't start the party yet, it aint over till the fat lady sings.

 

[EagleSmack]

Where is your source that he has died of Cancer already??

A person can be put on life support for many reasons, it does not mean he is dead..

Wouldn't you be the "King without clothes" if he came out of the hospital to great his people after a long recovery. Don't start the party yet, it aint over till the fat lady sings.

A King Without Clothes in this place when dealing with tards that make it all up as they go? Hardly. That would be like giving out speeding tickets at the Indy 500.

 

[earth_as_one]

ES claimed that Chavez murdered thousands of people and tortured millions. To support that he posted a link to a riot where police killed 13 armed demonstrators. No evidence that Chavez was involved in the decision to use lethal force or that the police weren't defending themselves or didn't act in response to a lethal threat in the same way police would react in the US to the same threat.

Who is telling fibs again?

13 does not equal thousands.

no one tortured does not equal millions tortured.

If Venezulaens wanted to get rid of Chavez, they would have voted for someone else. Instead he was re-elected.

When Chavez wanted to change the constitution so he could run form President repeatedly, rather than a two term limit, he was defeated. Some dictator!

Chavez a thug? How? He never started a war, unprovoked or otherwise. He has respected the Venezulan constitution and represented the interests of a majority of Venezuelans, rather than the wealthy 1%.

An American with a recording of ignoring their own country's war crimes making these claims about Chavez is pretty ludicrous

If I was Venezuelan, I'd probably hold my nose and vote for Chavez, given the alternatives.

 

[Spade]

ES admitted he made the statistics up.

 

[EagleSmack]

No way! Thousands upon thousands of Venezuelans slaughtered. Mostly women and children in mass graves. Tortured and murdered by a thug called Chavez after he stole the elections and squashed all freedoms in that poor country!

 

[Spade]

You are going to rile up your fellow American, Boomer, again. But, enjoy; sometimes a fellow just has to shlt disturb.

 

[EagleSmack]

ES claimed that Chavez murdered thousands of people and tortured millions. To support that he posted a link to a riot where police killed 13 armed demonstrators. No evidence that Chavez was involved in the decision to use lethal force or that the police weren't defending themselves or didn't act in response to a lethal threat in the same way police would react in the US to the same threat.

Who is telling fibs again?

13 does not equal thousands.

That was just one example of the thousands murdered!

no one tortured does not equal millions tortured.

lol... DUH!

If Venezulaens wanted to get rid of Chavez, they would have voted for someone else. Instead he was re-elected.

You mean stole the elections.

When Chavez wanted to change the constitution so he could run form President repeatedly, rather than a two term limit, he was defeated. Some dictator!

He learned his lesson didn't he. Now he can run forever when he rigged the second election Dumbo! He has no term limits stopping him. Except cancer is stopping him.

Chavez a thug? How? He never started a war, unprovoked or otherwise. He has respected the Venezulan constitution and represented the interests of a majority of Venezuelans, rather than the wealthy 1%.

He's a bully and he threatens war and support guerrillas in Columbia dumbo.

If I was Venezuelan, I'd probably hold my nose and vote for Chavez, given the alternatives.

Because it would be so far up Chavez's AZZ.

You are going to rile up your fellow American, Boomer, again. But, enjoy; sometimes a fellow just has to shlt disturb.

He ought to be! Chavez and his jackbooted thugs tortured MILLIONS!

You know what I'm talking about Spade!

 

[L Gilbert]

ES claimed that Chavez murdered thousands of people and tortured millions. To support that he posted a link to a riot where police killed 13 armed demonstrators. No evidence that Chavez was involved in the decision to use lethal force or that the police weren't defending themselves or didn't act in response to a lethal threat in the same way police would react in the US to the same threat.

Who is telling fibs again?

13 does not equal thousands.

no one tortured does not equal millions tortured.

If Venezulaens wanted to get rid of Chavez, they would have voted for someone else. Instead he was re-elected.

When Chavez wanted to change the constitution so he could run form President repeatedly, rather than a two term limit, he was defeated. Some dictator!

Chavez a thug? How? He never started a war, unprovoked or otherwise. He has respected the Venezulan constitution and represented the interests of a majority of Venezuelans, rather than the wealthy 1%.

An American with a recording of ignoring their own country's war crimes making these claims about Chavez is pretty ludicrous

If I was Venezuelan, I'd probably hold my nose and vote for Chavez, given the alternatives.

If the guy's such a saint then why all this stuff:

Venezuela

Terrified, Hugo Chavez threatens mass slaughter « Caracas Gringo

But, he's not all bad (very few are):

How has Venezuela changed since Hugo Chavez took power? | News | guardian.co.uk

 

[EagleSmack]

EXACTLY LG!

He's a Blood Thirsty Murderer!

 

[earth_as_one]

Finally a rational post about Chavez supported by evidence. Thanks LG.

Hugo Chavez is a hot head.... no doubt about it. He has screamed bloody murder on several occasions and you pointed out one example of where he put his mouth in gear before turning on his brain. But he never actually killed anyone. Don't forget that the US under Bush tried to assassinate Chavez regularly (acts of war), armed his rivals and orchestrated at least one coup attempt. His life and that of his friends and family are constantly threatened by his adversaries and as a result he has become a little paranoid. So would anyone after the 3rd or 4th assassination attempt.

Regarding Venezuala's security forces... Chavez inheritied that system of government sponsored extrajudical assassinations and torture. He could have done something about it, but like Obama, he didn't. Venezuelan security forces will respond to lethat threats to government officials with lethal force. Venezuela also has a problem with heavily armed drug lords who operate outside the law. Venezuela suffers rampant gang related street violence. When Venezuela police go after the most dangerous people, then tend to go in guns ablazing. When they capture someone close to someone of interest they use the same techniques used by Americans when they capture a terrorist of interest... pretty much the same techniques drug lords use when they capture rivals or government officials.

BTW, Columbia which has similar problems on a far bigger scale, yet you don't hear Americans calling Columbia's President a thug or mass murderer, because he pro-US:

Amnesty International | Working to Protect Human Rights

Pretty much every latin American country has the same problems and abuses as Venezuela to some degree. I'll put Venezuela's record of violence, torture and murder up against Columbia and Mexico. A big step toward ending drug gang related violence would be to reduce demand for illegal drugs in the US. Take the money out of illegal drugs and many of these problems would disappear.

BTW, I never claimed Chavez is an angel. Such a claim would be a lie, (but not as big of a lie as claiming Chavez has murdered thosaunds and tortured millions.)

The real problem Americans have with Chavez is that foreign oil companies have to pay Venezuela more than a token amount to exploit Venezuela's resources. For that the American government sought to overthrow and assassinate Chavez. So far, they have not suceeded because Chavez is so popular.

What is really screwed up are Americans who consider Chavez a threat despite the fact that Chavez is responsible for them getting subsized heating oil. Without Chavez aid, they'd be freezing in the dark. What a load of ungrateful SOBs....

U.S. Poor to Benefit from 6th Year of Subsidized Venezuelan Heating Oil

January 28th 2011 (Venezuelanalysis.com) – Yesterday Venezuela’s Petroluem Corporation, CITGO announced the start of its sixth year providing subsidized heating oil to low-income people in the United States. An estimated 132,000 households across the U.S. will benefit from the program this year, amounting to $60 million dollars worth of savings.

Joseph P. Kennedy II, son of the late U.S politician Robert Kennedy and president of Citizen Energy Corporation, the U.S.-based non-profit organization that partnered with Citgo in 2005 to launch the Citgo-Venezuela Heating Oil Program, spoke at the Citgo ceremony on Thursday.

“Every year, we hear from families who struggle each and every day to put food on the table and heat their homes,” he said.

“We are deeply grateful to CITGO and the people of Venezuela for their generosity to those who need help keeping their families warm. Every year, we ask major oil companies and oil-producing nations to help our senior citizens and the poor make it through winter, and only one company, CITGO, and one country, Venezuela, has responded to our appeals,” he said...
U.S. Poor to Benefit from 6th Year of Subsidized Venezuelan Heating Oil | venezuelanalysis.com

How about a little gratitude? How come American oil companies don't help America's poor like Chavez has?

 

[L Gilbert]

He may not have directly killed anyone, but who knows whether he has ordered people killed or not? Being an arrogant and dictatorial "hothead", I wouldn't count him out as being implicit in murders n whatnot. Besides, letting oil interests take over communities and screw up their countryside isn't exactly my idea of kosher; especially with Chavez's gov't's record on environmental impacts.

 

[darkbeaver]

Exposing Five Key Media Myths about Chavez’s Health and Swearing-in

By Ewan Robertson and Tamara Pearson | Venezuelanalysis | January 8th 2013

​

Over the last few weeks the private English media has stepped up its campaign against the Venezuelan revolution, spreading a number of lies and misconceptions around President Hugo Chavez’s health, the politics and legalities involved in his swearing-in for his new term, and the Venezuelan government’s handling of the situation. [...]
Here, Venezuelanalysis.com debunks the top five lies currently being spread by private media.

(Western mass media is an act of war against humanity. Everyone in this thread is a victim or will become one when the facts don't float their fantastic BS anymore. They will fall to sleep sometime.) DB