Catholic Discussion

sanctus

The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
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www.poetrypoem.com
How Does One "Keep Holy the Lord's Day"? I'm having trouble with this Commandment.

This really means no stores, no shopping etc on Sundays, doesn't it?

That's a part of the definition according to my favourite priest...

From our catechism:
I. THE SABBATH DAY
2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the sabbath: "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."92
2169 In speaking of the sabbath Scripture recalls creation: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it."93
2170 Scripture also reveals in the Lord's day a memorial of Israel's liberation from bondage in Egypt: "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with mighty hand and outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day."94
2171 God entrusted the sabbath to Israel to keep as a sign of the irrevocable covenant.95 The sabbath is for the Lord, holy and set apart for the praise of God, his work of creation, and his saving actions on behalf of Israel.
2172 God's action is the model for human action. If God "rested and was refreshed" on the seventh day, man too ought to "rest" and should let others, especially the poor, "be refreshed."96 The sabbath brings everyday work to a halt and provides a respite. It is a day of protest against the servitude of work and the worship of money.97
2173 The Gospel reports many incidents when Jesus was accused of violating the sabbath law. But Jesus never fails to respect the holiness of this day.98 He gives this law its authentic and authoritative interpretation: "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath."99 With compassion, Christ declares the sabbath for doing good rather than harm, for saving life rather than killing.100 The sabbath is the day of the Lord of mercies and a day to honor God.101 "The Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath."102
II. THE LORD'S DAY

[SIZE=-1]This is the day which the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it.103 [/SIZE] The day of the Resurrection: the new creation
2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:

[SIZE=-1]We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.106 [/SIZE] Sunday- fulfillment of the sabbath
2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107

[SIZE=-1]Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108 [/SIZE] 2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.
The Sunday Eucharist
2177 The Sunday celebration of the Lord's Day and his Eucharist is at the heart of the Church's life. "Sunday is the day on which the paschal mystery is celebrated in light of the apostolic tradition and is to be observed as the foremost holy day of obligation in the universal Church."110
[SIZE=-1]"Also to be observed are the day of the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Epiphany, the Ascension of Christ, the feast of the Body and Blood of Christi, the feast of Mary the Mother of God, her Immaculate Conception, her Assumption, the feast of Saint Joseph, the feast of the Apostles Saints Peter and Paul, and the feast of All Saints."111 [/SIZE]
2178 This practice of the Christian assembly dates from the beginnings of the apostolic age.112 The Letter to the Hebrews reminds the faithful "not to neglect to meet together, as is the habit of some, but to encourage one another."113

[SIZE=-1]Tradition preserves the memory of an ever-timely exhortation: Come to Church early, approach the Lord, and confess your sins, repent in prayer. . . . Be present at the sacred and divine liturgy, conclude its prayer and do not leave before the dismissal. . . . We have often said: "This day is given to you for prayer and rest. This is the day that the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad in it."114 [/SIZE] 2179 "A parish is a definite community of the Christian faithful established on a stable basis within a particular church; the pastoral care of the parish is entrusted to a pastor as its own shepherd under the authority of the diocesan bishop."115 It is the place where all the faithful can be gathered together for the Sunday celebration of the Eucharist. The parish initiates the Christian people into the ordinary expression of the liturgical life: it gathers them together in this celebration; it teaches Christ's saving doctrine; it practices the charity of the Lord in good works and brotherly love:

[SIZE=-1]You cannot pray at home as at church, where there is a great multitude, where exclamations are cried out to God as from one great heart, and where there is something more: the union of minds, the accord of souls, the bond of charity, the prayers of the priests.116 [/SIZE] The Sunday obligation
2180 The precept of the Church specifies the law of the Lord more precisely: "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass."117 "The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day."118
2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor.119 Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.
2182 Participation in the communal celebration of the Sunday Eucharist is a testimony of belonging and of being faithful to Christ and to his Church. The faithful give witness by this to their communion in faith and charity. Together they testify to God's holiness and their hope of salvation. They strengthen one another under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
[SIZE=-1]2183 "If because of lack of a sacred minister or for other grave cause participation in the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible, it is specially recommended that the faithful take part in the Liturgy of the Word if it is celebrated in the parish church or in another sacred place according to the prescriptions of the diocesan bishop, or engage in prayer for an appropriate amount of time personally or in a family or, as occasion offers, in groups of families."120 [/SIZE]
A day of grace and rest from work
2184 Just as God "rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done,"121 human life has a rhythm of work and rest. The institution of the Lord's Day helps everyone enjoy adequate rest and leisure to cultivate their familial, cultural, social, and religious lives.122
2185 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are to refrain from engaging in work or activities that hinder the worship owed to God, the joy proper to the Lord's Day, the performance of the works of mercy, and the appropriate relaxation of mind and body.123 Family needs or important social service can legitimately excuse from the obligation of Sunday rest. The faithful should see to it that legitimate excuses do not lead to habits prejudicial to religion, family life, and health.

[SIZE=-1]The charity of truth seeks holy leisure- the necessity of charity accepts just work.124 [/SIZE] 2186 Those Christians who have leisure should be mindful of their brethren who have the same needs and the same rights, yet cannot rest from work because of poverty and misery. Sunday is traditionally consecrated by Christian piety to good works and humble service of the sick, the infirm, and the elderly. Christians will also sanctify Sunday by devoting time and care to their families and relatives, often difficult to do on other days of the week. Sunday is a time for reflection, silence, cultivation of the mind, and meditation which furthers the growth of the Christian interior life.
[SIZE=-1]2187 Sanctifying Sundays and holy days requires a common effort. Every Christian should avoid making unnecessary demands on others that would hinder them from observing the Lord's Day. Traditional activities (sport, restaurants, etc.), and social necessities (public services, etc.), require some people to work on Sundays, but everyone should still take care to set aside sufficient time for leisure. With temperance and charity the faithful will see to it that they avoid the excesses and violence sometimes associated with popular leisure activities. In spite of economic constraints, public authorities should ensure citizens a time intended for rest and divine worship. Employers have a similar obligation toward their employees. [/SIZE]
2188 In respecting religious liberty and the common good of all, Christians should seek recognition of Sundays and the Church's holy days as legal holidays. They have to give everyone a public example of prayer, respect, and joy and defend their traditions as a precious contribution to the spiritual life of society. If a country's legislation or other reasons require work on Sunday, the day should nevertheless be lived as the day of our deliverance which lets us share in this "festal gathering," this "assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven."125
IN BRIEF
2189 "Observe the sabbath day, to keep it holy" (Deut 5:12). "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord" (Ex 31:15).
2190 The sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the Resurrection of Christ.
2191 The Church celebrates the day of Christ's Resurrection on the "eighth day," Sunday, which is rightly called the Lord's Day (cf. SC 106).
2192 "Sunday . . . is to be observed as the foremost holy day of obligation in the universal Church" (CIC, can. 1246 # 1). "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass" (CIC, can. 1247).
2193 "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound . . . to abstain from those labors and business concerns which impede the worship to be rendered to God, the joy which is proper to the Lord's Day, or the proper relaxation of mind and body" (CIC, can. 1247).
2194 The institution of Sunday helps all "to be allowed sufficient rest and leisure to cultivate their amilial, cultural, social, and religious lives" (GS 67 # 3).
2195 Every Christian should avoid making unnecessary demands on others that would hinder them from observing the Lord's Day.


[SIZE=-1] 90 Ex 20:8-10; cf. Deut 5:12-15.
91 Mk 2:27-28.
92 Ex 31:15.
93 Ex 20:11.
94 Deut 5:15.
95 Cf. Ex 31:16.
96 Ex 31:17; cf. 23:12.
97 Cf. Neh 13:15-22; 2 Chr 36:21.
98 Cf. Mk 1:21; Jn 9:16.
99 Mk 2:27.
100 Cf. Mk 3:4.
101 Cf. Mt 12:5; Jn 7:23.
102 Mk 2:28.
103 Ps 118:24.
104 Cf. Mt 28:1; Mk 16:2; Lk 24:1; Jn 20:1.
105 Cf. Mk 16:1; Mt 28:1.
106 St. Justin, I Apol. 67: PG 6, 429 and 432.
107 Cf. 1 Cor 10:11.
108 St. Ignatius of Antioch, Ad Magn. 9, 1: SCh 10, 88.
109 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh II-II 122, 4.
110 CIC, can. 1246 # 1.
111 CIC, can. 1246 # 2: "The conference of bishops can abolish certain holy days of obligation or transfer them to a Sunday with prior approval of the Apostolic See."
112 Cf. Acts 2:42-46; 1 Cor 11:17.
113 Heb 10:25.
114 Sermo de die dominica 2 et 6: PG 86/1, 416C and 421C.
115 CIC, can. 515 # 1.
116 St. John Chrysostom, De incomprehensibili 3, 6: PG 48, 725.
117 CIC, can. 1247.
118 CIC, can. 1248 # 1.
119 Cf. CIC, can. 1245.
120 CIC, can. 1248 # 2.
121 Gen 2:2.
122 Cf. GS 67 # 3.
123 Cf. CIC, can. 120.
124 St. Augustine, De civ. Dei 19, 19: PL 41, 647.
125 Heb 12:22-23. [/SIZE]
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
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In my view, the Lord's Day is the day Jesus re-created the old world into the new. That day what the day He paid the price. The day of the cross.

Now, honoring the Lord's day and keeping it Holy, is to hold that day most precious since that's the day salvation was granted to the world.

That day was the ending and the beginning or if you will, the "Cross" between the old and the new.

If you get the number 8, stretch it out and turn it horizontally, you will get the symbol of infinity.

At the left end of that symbol is the beginning, the middle is where Jesus shows up ending the beginning, and then starts a new beginning.

But this time the loop at the right and to the end of that loop is open as without end.

This is in concert with the bible as a whole.

The center theme of the bible is Christ and His salvation. There is nothing else to speak about unless, there is no belief.

If no belief, then the world is all there to imagine as to what it exists for.

No hope, no plan, no hereafter, just plain existence.

But if we believe, then this world means something greater, having received hope of salvation, a life after this one, strength in the midst of travail, strength to love, to make changes and to leave what we learned and experienced to our children.

For if life is all there is, why even bring children into this world? To experience the same nothingness as we?

My children know and understand that God is their God, their strength and hope of salvation.

I have laid down a foundation of belief for them to choose from based on my life's experiences and knowledge gained.

Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

It is up to them to do the same with their children.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
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Ok. Removing your obsession with numerology, what does this have to do with how to keep the Sabbath?

The Sabbath is heart kept! Holy and true in ones heart! To try to observe it as an action would cause us to fail miserably.
For if we had a heart after God, then everyday is a sabbath! Not only on Sundays as Mankind thinks.

Sabbath means rest. I am at Sabbath with my God, I rest from any works, for it is not my works that gained me salvation but His works. And if He is rested from them, so am I.

Now, not to confuse my works with His works, my works are accountable to me here and now.

I am responsible for my own behavior, but His works were to save me, and if I trust, rely and believe in Him, then I am at rest. Honoring Him my Sabbath.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
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Northern California
God is the great mathematician. Wouldn't you at least agree on that?

Why suppose the number 7 is so prevalent in the whole bible? Not only 7, but look at all the numbers in the bible, and you tell me they don't mean nothing?

40 years in the wilderness = probation
7 eyes in Revelation, etc. etc.

I have looked into many of them and I am awed by the wonder of my God. I respect His whole creation, as a wonderful plan.

God is just awesome and I yearn to be in His presence3 after it is all said and done here on this earth.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

mapleleafgirl

Electoral Member
Dec 13, 2006
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The Sabbath is heart kept! Holy and true in ones heart! To try to observe it as an action would cause us to fail miserably.
For if we had a heart after God, then everyday is a sabbath! Not only on Sundays as Mankind thinks.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:


isnt that what god told us, to keep holy the sabbath? to honour him and attend church..oh yeah..you dont believe you have to go to church.right? so why would you honour one of the commandments.
 

m_levesque

Electoral Member
Dec 18, 2006
524
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"Hate the sin, love the sinner"

Are we supposed to love Satan or other demons? This is a question that was bothering me for some time so I though why not to ask here. I know it sounds a bit weird but I hope you all understand what I mean.
 

csanopal

Electoral Member
Dec 22, 2006
225
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Toronto, ON
"Hate the sin, love the sinner"

Are we supposed to love Satan or other demons? This is a question that was bothering me for some time so I though why not to ask here. I know it sounds a bit weird but I hope you all understand what I mean.
Demons and angels are fixed in sin or grace. Since demons are fixed in sin (satan being a demon also) they alread "chose" to follow God or not,obviously they chose not to,so we are NOT to love satan or demons at all since they are fixed in evil. In fact, we often at a baptism recite our baptismal vows and the priest says....do you renounce satan and all of his works....we acknowledge "yes" so we renounce his evil.
Angels are messengers of God and are eternally in grace, so they love us and we love them.
 

Dezzarai

New Member
Mar 16, 2007
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I'm sorry but I didn't read all of the 30 + pages on this topic. I just can't stay up all night reading! one day maybe I will get around to it...anyway what I wanted to say is that it is my belief that no one is evil, and everyone goes to heaven (or whatver you call it I just know it will be wonderful). I think Hitler and Mother Teresa are in the same place, enjoying their afterlife together. I beleive that when people do wrong, the knowledge of their bad deed it punishment enough. I don't really know. I don't think any of us do for sure. But I am sure that there is no hell or any unpleasant place where "evil people" spend eternity. Eternity is a long time! If you beleive in a creator who is all about forgiveness and kindness and generosity, then how can you say he would send you somewhere where you would be unhappy forever, with no chance of getting out?
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
This thread is about God theeee God of theeeeeeeeChurch lets not introduce some lowly generic creator.When you have read the entire 700 million pages you will see clearly.:laughing7:
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
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Northern California
isnt that what god told us, to keep holy the sabbath? to honour him and attend church..oh yeah..you dont believe you have to go to church.right? so why would you honour one of the commandments.

Mosses’ law is the Ten Commandments and was given to condemn sin in the flesh as per the following verses:
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Meaning, that regardless of how hard we tried to keep the Commandments, we find that in the flesh it is impossible. Because: the flesh is condemned to die.

So what’s the alternative? Well, it must be in spirit that we can keep all of them. How do we do that?
There is only one individual who has fulfilled to a “T” the whole letter of the law. (Ten Commandments)

And that is God Himself! Only He as a man (Flesh, Jesus) could have the power to be over His own law of His own making.
He, God in Jesus did it for us! He kept the whole Ten Commandments for us! Including the Sabbath, which is on a Saturday, by the way, not Sunday?

What we need is to be in Him and we too can keep the Sabbath with Christ.

Jesus rested on the Sabbath from all His works of creation. So, He becomes our rest.

If we rest in Him and His works, then our works mean nothing. He is the provider of works for our salvation, not ours.

Now, if you so desire to honor Him by going to church on Saturday, Sunday, Monday or any other day, do so at your own desire, but not required.

If you believe in Jesus as your Savior and that in Him you have your salvation, then what about the Ten Commandments? They become your school master, but not your savior.

I don’t go to church because I don’t belong to any of them. I was raised up in a church, went to church all my life and now I am a mature Christian in need of none of them, for I have Christ as the head of my body. I make up the body of believers of which Christ is the head of it. (Church)

But, it doesn’t mean I stopped all together, for I do go now and then when invited as a jester of good will.

If you invited me to visit your church I would. Remember, that the organizational churches have no hold on me, cause I am free in Christ!

But I do respect all churches and fully understand why people attend them.

The Ten Commandments are condensed into two commandments:
The first five have to do with the spiritual and the second five have to do with the flesh.

Jesus thus told us to love God (First five) and love our neighbor (Second five).

If we love God, we shall also love our neighbor, thus fulfilling all of the Ten Commandments.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
1,952
15
38
Northern California
"Hate the sin, love the sinner"

Are we supposed to love Satan or other demons? This is a question that was bothering me for some time so I though why not to ask here. I know it sounds a bit weird but I hope you all understand what I mean.

Christ died for “all” souls, believer and unbeliever alike!
Now that makes us all the same in that none of us can boast as being better than the other guy as far as salvation is concerned. For Christ took care of that “for” us.

Now if we have an enemy that Christ died for, than we must love him. For: he too was included in salvation.

Does it mean you have to accept his behavior? NO! But you have to love him because it says, hate the sin, but love the sinner.

How do we love our enemies? The enemy (Sin) is anything that the flesh does that is against God, that we are instructed to hate.

Meaning that forgiveness is the only way to love a soul that has done us harm.

Let us not forget our laws and justice. We are given to rule ourselves with our own laws and administer justice accordingly.

If the neighbor dumps trash consistently in our yard it is not unloving to call the police.
But if he repented from doing it, then we forgive him for any previous infractions.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

westmanguy

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
1,651
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38
Ok, now Freedom of Religion is under attack (see Whyoming priest thread)

Many people hear want to see the churches conform to a certain ideology, and this comes from a homosexual issue.

I mean its come to the point where I cannot openly practise my belief on certain issues, because its descrinatory?

well excuse me freedom of relgion, and private orgs. can "descriminate" if they want, as long as its within the limits of the law.
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
1,952
15
38
Northern California
I'm sorry but I didn't read all of the 30 + pages on this topic. I just can't stay up all night reading! one day maybe I will get around to it...anyway what I wanted to say is that it is my belief that no one is evil, and everyone goes to heaven (or whatver you call it I just know it will be wonderful). I think Hitler and Mother Teresa are in the same place, enjoying their afterlife together. I beleive that when people do wrong, the knowledge of their bad deed it punishment enough. I don't really know. I don't think any of us do for sure. But I am sure that there is no hell or any unpleasant place where "evil people" spend eternity. Eternity is a long time! If you beleive in a creator who is all about forgiveness and kindness and generosity, then how can you say he would send you somewhere where you would be unhappy forever, with no chance of getting out?

Welcome to the discussion. And I am glad you asked.
You have somewhat of a correct understanding about our soul’s condition. Yes, Christ died for all souls, Hitler’s and Mother Theresa’s.

Evil does exist in the form of fleshly actions. Evil is a dormant resident in all of us.

We have both elements of Good and evil in us.

Evil is a natural desire of the flesh, while the spiritual good, is one that has to be worked out in the midst of an evil desire.

As for hell, Jesus took care of it. Hell, meaning in the spiritual sense, separation.

But we can make it hell here on earth for ourselves by not conforming to His laws of good.

And when people do wrong, for some, they might be remorseful, but for many, physical incarceration is the only hope of containing them from harming anybody.

But we must all pay for our own consequences in the flesh.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

sanctus

The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
4,558
48
48
Ontario
www.poetrypoem.com
I'm sorry but I didn't read all of the 30 + pages on this topic. I just can't stay up all night reading! one day maybe I will get around to it...anyway what I wanted to say is that it is my belief that no one is evil, and everyone goes to heaven (or whatver you call it I just know it will be wonderful). I think Hitler and Mother Teresa are in the same place, enjoying their afterlife together. I beleive that when people do wrong, the knowledge of their bad deed it punishment enough. I don't really know. I don't think any of us do for sure. But I am sure that there is no hell or any unpleasant place where "evil people" spend eternity. Eternity is a long time! If you beleive in a creator who is all about forgiveness and kindness and generosity, then how can you say he would send you somewhere where you would be unhappy forever, with no chance of getting out?

He sends no one anywhere, the choice is ours to make. Like every belief system, there are, if you will, rules or obligations to follow. You cannot, logically, circumvent them and expect to reap the benefits offered for those who attempt to live as they are taught. It's sort of, a bad example I know, but anyway, sort of like expecting to receive a raise in pay when you do not do the work you are hired to do.