Atheism: The reasons for it.
- Thread starter In Between Man
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Has anybody read The Zen of Pooh? It would be much more intelligent to discuss the merits of that book than the bible. Like I told a christian who was getting in my face, "Trying to get spiritual nourishment from a two thousand year old book is like trying to suck mild from the breast of a woman who has been dead that long." The same goes for the Koran - dusty old crap.
Then don't read it...very simple really.
gerryh,
Life can be that simple, eh. But do you really believe it?
gerryh,
Life can be that simple, eh. But do you really believe it?
Ah, I see why you won't accept my friends request. I have to ask: Are you J.W or mormon?
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Quran Means "Recitation"
The word "Quran" means "that which is recited; or that which is dictated in memory form." As such, it is not a book, nor is it something that reaches us only in written form. The documentation in writting about the Quran has been preserved in museums thoughout the world, including the Topekopi Palace in Istanbul, Turkey, the museum in Tashkent, Uzbekistan and also in England. Keep in mind also, the Quran is only considered "Quran" while it is in the recitation form, not in the written or the book form. The word for what is written and held in the hand to be read by the eye is called "mus-haf" (meaning script or that which is written down).
Only One Version - Arabic
There are no different versions of the Quran in the Arabic language, only different translations and of course, none of these would be considered to hold the value and authenticity of the original Arabic Recitation. The Quran is divided up into 30 equal parts, called "Juz'" (parts) in the Arabic language. These are learned by Muslims from their very early beginnings as children.
Memorized by Millions - Entirely
The important thing to keep in mind about the Quran is the memorization and transmission of the actual "Rectiation" just as it came to Muhammad, peace be upon him, from the Angel Gabriel and was learned and memorized by his companions and they in turn, passed it down to their followers and continued in this way until we see today, over 10,000,000 (ten million) Muslims who have committed the entire Quran to memory. This is not a small feat. After all, how many other works of literary value have been memorized and passed down through so many generations, in the original language, without a single change in even one sentence?
Each Muslim Has "Quran" Memorized
All Muslims have memorzied a portion of the Quran in the Arabic language, as this is an important part of their daily prayers. Many Muslims have memorized large portions of the Quran from one tenth to one half to all of the entire Quran, and all in the original Arabic language. It should be noted, there are over one and a half billion (1,500,000,000) Muslims worldwide and only about 10% are Arab, all the rest are learing the Quran in Arabic as a second language.
God Speaks in First Person to Mankind in Quran
The Quran contains clear statements from Almighty God (Allah) and it is Him speaking to all of us in the first person. He tells of us our own creation, the creation of all that is the universe and what has happened to those before us and what is to become of us if we do not take heed of the warnings clearly spelled out in His Revelation. He speaks also to Muhammad, peace be upon him, to show that Muhammad, peace be upon him, is not making this up himself and even chastises Muhammad, peace be upon him, for making human assumptions rather than waiting for revelation in matters (ie.; surah At-Tahreem and surah Abasa).
Quran Mentions Itself
The Quran refers to itself as "The Quran" (The Recitation) and mentions that it is to all mankind and jinn (another creation of Allah, similar to humans in that they could make choices as to whether or not they would obey God's Commandments, and they existed before humans).
Quran Describes God's Nature Exactly
The Quran is clear on who God is and who He is not. There is no room left for doubt after reading the Quran in the Arabic languge: God is One. He is the only Creator, Sustainer and Owner of the Universe. He has no partners. He has no relatives; wives, children or offspring. He is not like His creation and He does not need it for His existance, while all the time the creation is totally dependent on Him. His attributes are clearly spelled out as the epitome of each and every one. He is for instance, the All-Knowing; the All-Hearing; the All-Seeing; the All-Forgiving; the All- Loving; the All-Merciful; the Only One God. There is never a contradiction to this found anywhere in the Quran.
Quran Challanges Readers
The Quran makes the clear challange, that if you are in doubt about it - then bring a book like it. Also, to bring ten chapters like it and then finally, to bring one single chapter like it. 1,400 years - and no one has been able to duplicate it's beauty, recitation, miracles and ease of memorization. Another challange for the unbelievers to consider; "If this (Quran) were from other than Allah, you would find within it many contradictions." And yet, another challange offered by Allah in the Quran is for the unbelievers to look around for evidences. Allah says He will show them His signs within themselves and on the farthest horizons.
Scientific Miracles in Quran
The scientific miracles of the Quran could not have been understood at that time, yet today we take for granted the many things included in the revelation of the Quran. Some include mentioning: The formation of embryo in the womb of the mother (surah 98); deep seas partitions; waters that do not mix; clouds and how they make rain and how lightning is caused by ice crystals; formation of the earth's mountains deep underground; orbits of planets and stars and moons - and even the mention of space travel (surah 55:33).
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][Watch videos of world's top scientists commenting on the "Miracle of Science in Quran"][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://islamyesterday.com/videos/science/[/FONT]
In the earliest christian writings, Jesus said "I am a son of god" and "we are all children of god" It was not until much later, possible Constantine, that the word was changed to "the son of god" for purely political reasons the formation of the Roman Catholic Church. Now, considering what most protestants think of the RCC, it astounds me that they still think the bible is the word of god. But then it astounds me that they still find a need for such a psychopath in their lives.
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Quran Means "Recitation"
The word "Quran" means "that which is recited; or that which is dictated in memory form."
ahmadman,
and your point is?It is still an antique religion with no relevance today. Nobody has answered my question, why do Muslims not acknowledge the Bahai faith as a continuation of the all religions?You accept that Mohammad was the prophet that followed in the footsteps of Abraham, Moses and Jesus but you are unwilling to take the next step and embrace the teachings of the Bahai faith which is founded on the principle of uniting all religions based on a common belief in the one god. You would rather fight with Jews and Christians that to accept that you are all brothers and sisters under the same god. That tells me that you are not a true believer. God sent you his next messanger to usher in the new erra and you reject him, which is what you accuse christians of doing by not recognizing Mohammed. Do you not find this just a tad hypocritical?
The word "Quran" means "that which is recited; or that which is dictated in memory form."
ahmadman,
and your point is?It is still an antique religion with no relevance today. Nobody has answered my question, why do Muslims not acknowledge the Bahai faith as a continuation of the all religions?You accept that Mohammad was the prophet that followed in the footsteps of Abraham, Moses and Jesus but you are unwilling to take the next step and embrace the teachings of the Bahai faith which is founded on the principle of uniting all religions based on a common belief in the one god. You would rather fight with Jews and Christians that to accept that you are all brothers and sisters under the same god. That tells me that you are not a true believer. God sent you his next messanger to usher in the new erra and you reject him, which is what you accuse christians of doing by not recognizing Mohammed. Do you not find this just a tad hypocritical?
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Muhammad in Quran and Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]- Could he be the "Paraklytos"?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NOTE: Under Construction - please visit this page again in the future - for updates and discussion, write to: AskIslam@aol.com and mention this link: Revelation of Muhammad - Prophet of Allah[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]......... [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]More than fourteen centuries have passed since the prophet of Arabia made claim to being the last and final 'messenger and slave' of Allah. Yet the intensity of discussion amongst scholars from all religions seems to have increased over the years and gained in volocity in the last few years more so than ever before.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Who was this man? What do his followers believe about him? How can others understand their undying devotion to his mission? What do the scholars tell us about this man, Muhammad, peace be upon him, and his 'message' to the world?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For more than fourteen centuries scholars from Judaism, Christianity and Islam have been discussing whether or not the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, could have indeed, been a true prophet from Almighty God.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Was he the long awaited 'Messiah' the Jews have been waiting for so many centuries?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Was he the one prophesied in the Old Testament Book of Isaiah, calling in the wilderness[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Was he 'That Prophet' mentioned in the New Testament Gospel of John?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We would like to share some of the findings of these scholars from their own sources and invite the reader to consider these evidences.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The most recent claim of revelation coming from the God of Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus, peace be upon them, is the claim of Muhammad, peace be upon him, regarding the Quran. The Quran makes the claim, Muhammad, peace be upon him, is the 'slave and messenger' of Almighty God.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]But more importantly pertaining to our subject at hand, the Quran makes the claim that Muhammad, peace be upon him, is mentioned by name in the previous revelations (meaning the Bible). Can this claim be substantiated?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Let us begin by examining the statement in the Quran contained in the 61st chapter (As-Saff [the ranks]), verse 6:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]61:6[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And when Jesus said; "O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of God (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving glad tidings of an apostle to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." [61:6][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Please take notice of the name mentioned, 'Ahmad'. This is one of the most common of several names given to the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, by his own people.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Now let us turn to the Old Testament (Torah of the Jews) and notice the book called Songs of Solomon, chapter 5, verse 16:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]His mouth is very sweet; [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]he is totally desirable.33 [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This is my beloved! [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This is my companion, O maidens of Jerusalem! [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Check the footnote (33) to discovere what the word was BEFORE it was translated as "totally desirable" and in some versions of the translations we find, "altogether lovely."[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](makhmaddim, “desirable”) is the plural form of the noun (makhmad, “desire, desirable thing, precious object”; (see below note #33)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It is asserted that this word "Makhmaddim" is in reality the word "Akhmad" or "AHmad". The reason for the emphasis on the "kh" sound is to prounouce the very hard "H" sound of the two types of "h" in the Semetic languages.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There is a word used in a passage of the New Testament of the Bible, located in the Gospel of John, chapter 14, verse 16, that many Muslim scholars refer to as pointing to the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. Let us review it and then observe what non-Muslim scholars comment about it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]14:15 “If you love me, you will obey34 my commandments.35 [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]14:16 Then36 I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate37 to be with you forever— [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]14:17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot accept,38 because it does not see him or know him. But you know him, because he resides39 with you and will be40 in you. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Old Testament Song of Solomon 5:16 note 33tn [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The term (makhmaddim, “desirable”) is the plural form of the noun dm^j=m^ (makhmad, “desire, desirable thing, precious object”; HALOT 570 s.v. 1; BDB 326 s.v.). Like the plural (“sweetness”) in the preceding parallel line, this use of the plural is probably an example of the plural of intensity: “very desirable.” [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]34tn Or “will keep.” [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]35sn Jesus’ statement If you love me, you will obey my commandments provides the transition between the promises of answered prayer which Jesus makes to his disciples in vv. 13-14 and the promise of the Holy Spirit which is introduced in v. 16. Obedience is the proof of genuine love. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]36tn Here kaiv (kai) has been translated as “Then” to reflect the implied sequence in the discourse. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]37tn Or “Helper” or “Counselor”; Grk “Paraclete,” from the Greek word paravklhto" (paraklhto"). Finding an appropriate English translation for paravklhto" is a very difficult task. No single English word has exactly the same range of meaning as the Greek word. “Comforter,” used by some of the older English versions, appears to be as old as Wycliffe. But today it suggests a quilt or a sympathetic mourner at a funeral. “Counselor” is adequate, but too broad, in contexts like “marriage counselor” or “camp counselor.” “Helper” or “Assistant” could also be used, but could suggest a subordinate rank. “Advocate,” the word chosen for this translation, has more forensic overtones than the Greek word does, although in John 16:5-11 a forensic context is certainly present. Because an “advocate” is someone who “advocates” or supports a position or viewpoint and since this is what the Paraclete will do for the preaching of the disciples, it was selected in spite of the drawbacks. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]38tn Or “cannot receive.” [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]39tn Or “he remains.” [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]40tc Some early and important witnesses (Ì66* B D* W 1 565 it) have ejstin (estin, “he is”) instead of e[stai (estai, “he will be”) here, while other weighty witnesses ({Ì66c,75vid Í A D1 L Q Y Ë13 33vid Ï as well as several versions and fathers}), read the future tense. When one considers transcriptional evidence, ejstin is the more difficult reading and better explains the rise of the future tense reading, but it must be noted that both Ì66 and D were corrected from the present tense to the future. If ejstin were the original reading, one would expect a few manuscripts to be corrected to read the present when they originally read the future, but that is not the case. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When one considers what the author would have written, the future is on much stronger ground. The immediate context (both in 14:16 and in the chapter as a whole) points to the future, and the theology of the book regards the advent of the Spirit as a decidedly future event (see, e.g., 7:39 and 16:7). The present tense could have arisen from an error of sight on the part of some scribes or more likely from an error of thought as scribes reflected upon the present role of the Spirit. Although a decision is difficult, the future tense is most likely authentic. For further discussion on this textual problem, see James M. Hamilton, Jr., “He Is with You and He Will Be in You” (Ph.D. diss., The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, 2003), 213-20. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]More about Muhammad [click][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]More about Jesus and Muhammad in Bible [click][/FONT]
but if we search about the Bahai in quran :-
033.040
Sahih International: Muْammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.
023.071
Sahih International: But if the Truth had followed their inclinations, the heavens and the earth and whoever is in them would have been ruined. Rather, We have brought them their message, but they, from their message, are turning away.
Sahih International: Muْammad is not but a messenger. [Other] messengers have passed on before him. So if he was to die or be killed, would you turn back on your heels [to unbelief]? And he who turns back on his heels will never harm Allah at all; but Allah will reward the grateful.
006.093
Sahih International: And who is more unjust than one who invents a lie about Allah or says, "It has been inspired to me," while nothing has been inspired to him, and one who says, "I will reveal [something] like what Allah revealed." And if you could but see when the wrongdoers are in the overwhelming pangs of death while the angels extend their hands, [saying], "Discharge your souls! Today you will be awarded the punishment of [extreme] humiliation for what you used to say against Allah other than the truth and [that] you were, toward His verses, being arrogant
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ahmadman,
Are you capable of thinking for yourself or are you only capable of cutting and pasting a bunch of gibberish?
Are you capable of thinking for yourself or are you only capable of cutting and pasting a bunch of gibberish?
it's not a bunch of gibberish it's the truth.
It is a bunch of gibberish. Your book and your god are fiction and that can be proven by science and history. You still refuse to answer my question and you still refuse to give your own thoughts. You just cut and paste BS from the Koran. Can you think for yourself or is that forbiden by your religion?
It is a bunch of gibberish. Your book and your god are fiction and that can be proven by science and history. You still refuse to answer my question and you still refuse to give your own thoughts. You just cut and paste BS from the Koran. Can you think for yourself or is that forbiden by your religion?
that story the uncle monkey that very bunch of gibberish
you can lied on the science and history and some from people
like the uncle monkey .:lol:
but can't lied on all people
the quran he have science can't write it person illiterate in the desert just prophet
can I think for myself not there problem.;-)
but I liked write the quran that is better
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I was brought up Roman Catholic and my kids are being brought up Roman Catholic.You haven't provided proof of your assertion like I have asked.
so if they did, it doesn't really matter what other atrocious acts they had committed? Does your god offer salvations to mass muderers as well as to really good people?
Stalin was educted in a Christian seminary, so I guess he did, BTW
uh-huh. Hurt people, humiliate people, trample on people who care about you. As long as you can cover your ass with sayings from that book it's alright.
Ah, nothing more righteous than blind faith! Do not question, just do as you are told. I am expecting ahmadman to suddenly disappear from this forum when he gets the call to blow himself up.
His attitude is that of someone who wants to convert but he does more damage to his cause than I could ever hope to do,
Keep up the good work, there ahmadman!
His attitude is that of someone who wants to convert but he does more damage to his cause than I could ever hope to do,
Keep up the good work, there ahmadman!
Quite right, Vereya. Unfortunately you are describing Muslims as well as Christians here.