Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruction

petros

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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc

Palestinians have been trying to con the world since the inception of Israel.
In what ways? By continually taking more land than was legally agreed upon? Is it the Palestinians fault that some kings ****ed God over and ended both the Isrealites and the Judeans and sent them scattering and converting to other religions?
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc

Supporters of Israel are suckalots.
And absolutely no clue that God abandoned the Judeans and Israelites and formed a New Covenant that they completly rejected. If they had of stayed within God graces they wouldn't have had 2000 years of being kicked around.

It's all there in black and white (sometimes red) in the Bible....
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc

I proudly support Amnesty International and their goals. Their actions speak louder than their critics words:
Here is what Amnesty International has done since 1961:

The history of Amnesty International

Ever since we started campaigning in 1961, we’ve worked around the globe to stop the abuse of human rights.
We now have more than 2.2 million members, supporters and subscribers in over 150 countries and territories, in every region of the world.
The following short history highlights many of the campaigns and actions we’ve undertaken and key human rights developments since we began all those years ago.

The 1960s


1961
British lawyer Peter Benenson launched a worldwide campaign, ‘Appeal for Amnesty 1961’ with the publication of a prominent article, ‘The Forgotten Prisoners’, in The Observer newspaper. The imprisonment of two Portuguese students, who had raised their wine glasses in a toast to freedom, moved Benenson to write this article. His appeal was reprinted in other papers across the world and turned out to be the genesis of Amnesty International.
The first international meeting was held in July, with delegates from Belgium, the UK, France, Germany, Ireland, Switzerland and the US. They decided to establish "a permanent international movement in defence of freedom of opinion and religion".
A small office and library, staffed by volunteers, opened in Peter Benenson’s chambers, in Mitre Court, London. The ’Threes Network‘ was established through which each Amnesty International group adopted three prisoners from contrasting geographical and political areas, emphasizing the impartiality of the group's work.
On Human Rights Day, 10 December, the first Amnesty candle was lit in the church of St-Martin-in-the-Fields, London.
1962
In January the first research trip was undertaken. This trip to Ghana, was followed by Czechoslovakia in February (on behalf of a prisoner of conscience, Archbishop Josef Beran), and then to Portugal and East Germany.
The Prisoner of Conscience Fund was established to provide relief to prisoners and their families.
AI’s first annual report was published; it contained details of 210 prisoners who had been adopted by 70 groups in seven countries; in addition, 1,200 cases were documented in the Prisoners of Conscience Library.
At a conference in Belgium, a decision was made to set up a permanent organization that will be known as Amnesty International.
An observer attended the trial of Nelson Mandela.
1963
Amnesty International now comprised 350 groups – there was a two-year total of 770 prisoners adopted and 140 released.
The International Secretariat (Amnesty International’s headquarters) was established in London.
1964
Peter Benenson was named president. There were now 360 groups in 14 countries. In August the United Nations gave Amnesty International consultative status.
1965
Amnesty International issued its first reports – on prison conditions in Portugal, South Africa and Romania – and sponsored a resolution at the United Nations to suspend and finally abolish the death penalty for peacetime political offences.
The monthly Postcards for Prisoners campaign started.
1966
Eric Baker took over the running of the organization.
1967
There were 550 groups in 18 countries, and Amnesty International was working for nearly 2,000 prisoners in 63 countries – 293 prisoners had been released.
1968
The first Prisoner of Conscience Week was observed in November.
Martin Ennals was appointed AI Secretary General.
1969
In January, UNESCO granted Amnesty International consultative status as the organization reached another milestone – 2,000 prisoners of conscience released.
The International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination was adopted.

The 1970s


1970
There were now 850 groups in 27 countries; 520 prisoners had been released during the year.
1971
Amnesty International’s 10th anniversary received widespread publicity in international press, radio and television, in a year when 700 prisoners were released.
1972
Amnesty International launched its first worldwide campaign for the abolition of torture.
1973
The first full Urgent Action was issued, on behalf of Professor Luiz Basilio Rossi, a Brazilian who was arrested for political reasons. Luiz himself believed that Amnesty International's appeals were crucial: "I knew that my case had become public, I knew they could no longer kill me. Then the pressure on me decreased and conditions improved."
The new regime in Chile agreed to admit a three-person Amnesty International mission for an on-the-spot probe into allegations of massive violations of human rights.
The United Nations unanimously approved the Amnesty International-inspired resolution formally denouncing torture.
1974
Amnesty International’s Sean McBride, Chair of the International Executive Committee, was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in recognition of his lifelong work for human rights.
On the first anniversary of Chile's military coup, AI published a report exposing political oppression, executions and torture under the regime of President Augusto Pinochet.
Mumtaz Soysal of Turkey became first ever former prisoner of conscience elected to the International Executive Committee, Amnesty International’s most senior governance body.
1975
The United Nations unanimously adopted a Declaration Against Torture.
There were now 1,592 groups in 33 countries and more than 70,000 members in 65 countries.
1976
The first Secret Policeman's Ball fundraising event in London featured John Cleese and Monty Python, Peter Cook and other Beyond the Fringe comedians, Not the Nine o’Clock News, Fawlty Towers and The Goodies. The series continued in later years starring comedians and musicians such as Peter Gabriel, Duran Duran, Mark Knopfler, Bob Geldolf, Eric Clapton and Phil Collins paved the way for benefits such as Live Aid.
The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights entered into force. Together they are known as the International Bill of Rights.
1977
Amnesty International was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for "having contributed to securing the ground for freedom, for justice, and thereby also for peace in the world".
1978
Amnesty International won the United Nations Human Rights prize for "outstanding contributions in the field of human rights".
1979
List published of 2,665 cases of people known to have "disappeared" in Argentina after the military coup by Jorge Rafael Videla.
The Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW) was adopted by the UN General Assembly.

The 1980s


1980
Thomas Hammarberg of Sweden took over from Martin Ennals as Secretary General.
1981
A candle-lighting ceremony was held in London to mark Amnesty International’s 20th anniversary.
1982
On 10 December, Human Rights Day, an appeal was launched for a universal amnesty for all prisoners of conscience. More than one million people sign petitions, which were presented to the United Nations a year later.
1983
Amnesty International launched a special report on political killings by governments.
1984
Amnesty International launched the second Campaign Against Torture, which included a 12-point plan for the abolition of torture.
1985
Amnesty International published its first educational pack: Teaching and Learning about Human Rights.
The International Council Meeting in Helsinki, Finland, made a decision to broaden the statute to include work for refugees.
There were now more than half a million members, supporters and subscribers.
1986
Amnesty International USA launched the Conspiracy of Hope rock concert tour with U2, Sting, Peter Gabriel, Bryan Adams, Lou Reed, the Neville Brothers and others.
Ian Martin became General Secretary.
1987
AI published a report which said that the death penalty in the USA is racially biased and arbitrary and violated treaties such as the Second Optional Protocol to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR).
The Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment enters into force.
1988
Human Rights Now! concert tour, featuring Sting and Bruce Springsteen, among others, travelled to 19 cities in 15 countries and was viewed by millions when broadcast on Human Rights Day.
Membership surged in many countries following the tour.
1989
Amnesty International published a major new study on the death penalty, When the State Kills.

The 1990s


1990
Membership increased to 700,000 members in 150 countries, with more than 6,000 volunteer groups in 70 countries.
1991
Amnesty International’s 30th anniversary saw the organization broaden its scope to cover work on abuses by armed opposition groups, hostage taking and people imprisoned due to their sexual orientation.
1992
Membership passed one million.
Pierre Sané was appointed Secretary General of Amnesty International.
The UN Declaration on the Protection of all Persons from Enforced Disappearance was adopted.
1993
Amnesty International activists demonstrated at the United Nations World Conference on Human Rights in Vienna, and displayed Urgent Actions from around the world.
1994
Amnesty International launched major international campaigns on women's rights, disappearances and political killings.
1995
Amnesty International campaigned to Stop the Torture Trade.
1996
Amnesty International launched the campaign for a permanent International Criminal Court.
1997
Human rights of refugees worldwide became a major focus of campaigning.
1998
The Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court was adopted in July 1998.
Amnesty International launched the Get Up, Sign Up! campaign to mark the 50th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights – 13 million pledges of support were collected.
A concert was held in Paris on Human Rights Day featuring Radiohead, Asian Dub Foundation, Bruce Springsteen, Tracey Chapman, Alanis Morissette, Youssou N'Dour and Peter Gabriel, with special appearances by the Dalai Lama and international human rights activists.
1999
The United Nations Declaration on Human Rights Defenders was adopted in March 1999.
Our International Council Meeting agreed to expand Amnesty International’s remit to include: the impact of economic relations on human rights; empowering human rights defenders; campaigning against impunity; enhancing work to protect refugees; and strengthening grassroots activism.
The Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination against Women was adopted, meaning the Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women can receive and consider complaints from individuals or groups.

2000-present day


2000
Amnesty International launched the third Campaign against Torture.
2001
Irene Khan was appointed Secretary General of Amnesty International.
In its 40th anniversary year, Amnesty International changed its Statute to incorporate, into its mission, work for economic, social and cutlural rights thus committing itself to advance both the universality and indivisibility of all human rights enshrined in the Universal Declaration.
Amnesty International’s Stop Torture website won a Revolution Award, which recognised the best in digital marketing.
2002
The Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict was adopted (the Convention on the Rights of the Child itself having been adopted in 1959).
The 60th ratification of the Rome Statute took place, paving the way for the International Criminal Court to come into force on 1 July 2002.
Amnesty International launched a campaign in the Russian Federation against the widespread human rights abuses committed in a climate of impunity.
2003
Amnesty International, Oxfam and the International Action Network on Small Arms (IANSA) launched the global Control Arms campaign.
2004
Amnesty International launched the Stop Violence Against Women campaign.
2005
Amnesty International launched the Make Some Noise campaign – music, celebration and action in support of Amnesty International’s work. Yoko Ono made a gift to Amnesty International of the recording rights to Imagine and John Lennon's entire solo songbook.
Amnesty International's report, Cruel. Inhuman. Degrades us all – Stop torture and ill-treatment in the ‘war on terror’, challenged the claim that, in the face of terrorist threats, states need not be bound by previously agreed human rights standards.
2006
Amnesty International’s report, Partners in crime: Europe’s role in US renditions, detailed the involvement of European states in US flights used to secretly seize and imprison terrorist suspects without due process.
The millionth person to post a picture of himself on the Control Arms Million Faces web petition calling for an Arms Trade Treaty presented the petition to UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan. A further quarter of a million people signed the petition before the year was out.
Amnesty International and its partners in the Control Arms campaign achieved a major victory when the UN voted overwhelmingly to start work on a treaty.
The UN adopted the International Convention For The Protection Of All Persons From Enforced Disappearance.
2007
Amnesty International launched a global petition calling on Sudan’s government to protect civilians in Darfur and launched a CD featuring 30 world-class musicians to mobilize support, called Make Some Noise: The Campaign to Save Darfur.
The United Nations General Assembly (GA) adopted the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.
Following intense campaigning by Amnesty International and its partners in the World Coalition Against the Death Penalty, the UN General Assembly (UNGA) Third Committee's 62nd session adopted resolution L29 calling for a global moratorium on executions.
Amnesty International has more than 2.2 million members, supporters and subscribers in over 150 countries and territories in every region of the world.



Amnesty International | Working to Protect Human Rights
 

Colpy

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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc

Here is EAO's own quote to prove the Israelis were purposely killing Palestinian civilians in Gaza...

.
.Between 27 December 2008 and 18 January 2009, the Israeli military carried out an attack on the Gaza Strip, which it called Operation Cast Lead. The magnitude of the harm to the local population was unprecedented: 1,390 Palestinians were killed, 759 of whom did not take part in the hostilities. Of these, 318 were minors under age 18. More than 5,300 Palestinians were wounded, 350 of them seriously. Israel also caused enormous damage to residential dwellings, industrial buildings, agriculture and infrastructure for electricity, sanitation, water, and health, which was already on the verge of collapse prior to the operation. According to UN figures, Israel destroyed more than 3,500 residential dwellings and 20,000 people were left homeless.
During the operation, Palestinians fired rockets and mortar shells at Israel, with the declared purpose of striking Israeli civilians. These attacks killed three Israeli civilians and one member of the Israeli security forces, and wounded dozens. Nine soldiers were killed within the Gaza Strip, four by friendly fire. More than 100 soldiers were wounded, one critically and 20 moderately to seriously...
1390 Palestinians killed, according to this source, 759 were non-combatants.

I assume the 759 includes 250 police listed by HAMAS as combatants....but we'll let that go.

54.6 percent of Palestinian deaths were non-combatant casualties, using EAO's numbers.

Now wait for it, now it gets interesting.

Nine Israeli soldiers were killed. 4 by friendly fire.

This is the fun part.

44.4 % of ISRAELI casualties were caused by the Israeli military.............

So there roughly the same percentage of friendly fire (Israeli) and Palestinian non-combatant casualties caused by the IDF.....yet EAO would have you believe the Israelis were murdering civilians en masse in a collective punishment.

Three questions:

1. Does EAO seriously believe the Israeli Army was out to perform a collective punishment on ITSELF????? The casualty rates say it was......

2. How silly does EAO feel now?

3. Did EAO really believe I was incapable of twisting irrelevant facts into a case supporting my cause???? lol As he does so well in his posts?

The only point that counts is this.........the civilian casualty count in the Gaza operation was incredibly LOW, by ALL counts between a ration of 1:1 and 2:1 civilian to militant deaths (where the standard is 10:1).........therefore all accusations against Israel of serious and wide-spread war crimes involving purposeful attacks on civilians are facetious, politically motivated, and BS.

Full stop.

Simple linear logic.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc

Simple linear logic.
1390 Palestinians killed, according to this source, 759 were non-combatants. Of these, 318 were minors under age 18.


Israel kills children indiscriminately.

FULL STOP

Simple logic says 25% were kids and 100% killed by Israel.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc

Colpy, I'm not sure what you you would call this incident but yes I would call it murdering civilians enmasse:

The Plight of Al Samouni Family in Gaza: in their own voices

The story of Al Samouni’s family of Gaza is tragic and appalling. According to Al Haq’s field research members, the story began on Saturday, 3 January 2009, with Israeli incursion into and firing at the Al Zaytoun neighborhood.

The following day, on 4 January 2009, Israeli occupying forces bombed the same area killing one Palestinian.

On Monday at 7:00 Am, 5 January 2009, again Israeli occupying forces bombed the very same area of Hay (neighborhood) Al Zaytoun. One of the missiles struck the third floor of Tallal Hilmi Al Samouni’s home. Traumatized, the family nonetheless managed to extinguish the fire. Earlier the 16-member family—including the grandfather, grandmother, their children and families—had evacuated into the first floor in fear of the bombs that were striking Gaza.

As the situation deteriorated and the shelling intensified, three additional Al Samouni families sought refuge in Tallal’s home. The families included: Ibrahim Al Samouni (12 members), Rashad Al Samouni (11 members), and Nafiz Al Samouni (10 members). Altogether 49 members of Al Samouni’s family gathered at Tallal’s house.

Later on Monday, the Israeli occupying forces knocked on the door of Tallal’s home and asked the congregated family members to move to Wael Al Samouni’s home (11 members). The Israeli occupying forces also asked the men to lift their shirts on their way out (a dehumanizing gesture across all cultures), then surrounded Wael’s home and left the 60 members of Al Samouni family without water for 24 hours. As for electricity, it has been cut off entirely in the strip since Israel’s bombardment began on 27 December 2009.

The next day, 6 January 2009, the family heard shooting nearby, followed by calm. Some thought that the Israeli occupying forces had withdrawn from the neighborhood, and so one of the men left the front door to bring water from a tank placed in front of the house for the children, who were thirsty. To his surprise, the Israeli occupying forces and their tanks were still surrounding the house, which made him immediately turn back inside.

Five minutes later, the tanks shelled a missile into the house and injured seven people. Only three minutes later the Israelis aimed another missile close by, which killed many Al Samouni family members—predominantly children and women.

About 22 of the survivors, many of whom were injured, left the house raising white banners and carrying four bodies of those killed. The Israeli occupying forces began shooting around them, but they continued to walk, and tried to call the ambulance to pick them up and save the injured among them. But the Israeli occupying forces informed them that they have banned emergency services from reaching the area. Indeed, Israeli soldiers, with their heavy weaponry, vehemently prevented medics and ambulances, including the Red Cross, from entering. However, at a crossroad about a kilometer and a half further on, an ambulance managed to collect the injured.

Back at the house, where the dead bodies of Palestinians lay, there were thirteen family members who were still alive. Eight of them were children, some of them injured, who had been locked in for three days with the bodies of their dead parents and family members, with no access to food or water.

The Red Cross was only allowed entry three days later to evacuate the dead and injured, the majority of whom were so critical that they were taken to Belgium, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia for treatment.
Overall, 26 members of Al Samouni family were killed, including 10 children and 7 women.

The questions that remain include: who will account for these innocent civilians? Who will hold Israel responsible for their war crimes against humanity? Who will compensate—and clearly, nothing can—for the lives of children, women and men? Will there ever be a time when these children, who were surrounded by the dead bodies of their parents and family members for three days, ever forgive the international silence over the grave violations that struck them and their families? Al Samouni survivors will need answers to these questions including justice to be done.

The information obtained for this report on Al Samouni family and its plight was gathered by Al Haq Research Field Workers based in Gaza. The information was directly solicited from the survivors of Al Samouni family that provided a first hand account.


Names of Children Killed

• Azza Salah Al Samouni, 3 years of age
• Waleed Rashad Al Samouni, 17 years of age
• Ishaq Ibrahim Al Samouni, 14 years of age
• Ismail Ibrahim Al Samouni, 16 years of age
• Rifka Wael Al Samouni, 8 years of age
• Fares Wael Al Samouni, 12 years of age
• Huda Nael Al Samouni, 17 years of age
• Ahmad Atieh Al Samouni, 14 years of age
• Mu’tassim Mohammed Al Samouni, 6 years of age
• Mohammed Hilmi Al Samouni, 5 years of age


Names of Women Killed

• Rahma Mohammed Al Samouni, 50 years of age
• Safa’ Hilmi Al Samouni, 25 years of age
• Maha Mohammed Al Samouni, 22 years of age
• Rabbab Azzat Al Samouni, 32 years of age
• Laila Nabih Al Samouni, 40 years of age
• Rifqa Mohammed Al Samouni, 50 years of age
• Hannan Khamis Al Samouni, 36 years of age


Names of Men Killed

• Tallal Hilmi Al Samouni, 55 years of age
• Attieh Hilmi Al Samouni, 25 years of age
• Rashad Hilmi Al Samouni, 42 years of age
• Tawfiq Rashad Al Samouni, 23 years of age
• Mohammed Ibrahim, 26 years of age
• Ziyad Izzat Al Samouni, 28 years of age
• Nidal Ahmad Al Samouni, 30 years of age
• Hamdi Maher Al Samouni, 23 years of age
• Hamdi Mahmoud Al Samouni, 70 years of age
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc

In what ways? By continually taking more land than was legally agreed upon? Is it the Palestinians fault that some kings ****ed God over and ended both the Isrealites and the Judeans and sent them scattering and converting to other religions?

Legally agreed upon by whom? If left to Israel during the 40's they would have driven every European out by 1948 including Great Briton. Then they would have controlled what pretty much what they do now. (Just that no one in the area could have beaten them back then)


Yes it is the Palestinians fault that every country wanted them out of their territory, even before partition. "Palestine, historic region on the eastern shore of the Mediterranean Sea, comprising parts of modern Israel, Jordan, and Egypt; also known as the Holy Land. This article discusses the physical geography and history of Palestine until the UN took up the Palestine problem in 1947; for the economy and later history, see Gaza Strip, Israel, Jordan, and West Bank. Palestine is the Holy Land of the Jews, promised to them by God according to the Bible; of the Christians because it was the scene of Jesus' life; and of the Muslims because Jerusalem is the traditional site of Muhammad's ascent to heaven. Palestine comprises three geographic zones: a part of the Great Rift Valley, a ridge, and a coastal plain. The earliest known settlements in Palestine, e.g. Jericho, may date from 8000 BC An independent Hebrew kingdom was established 1000 BC After 950 BC this kingdom broke up into two states, Israel and Judah. Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, and Romans in turn conquered Palestine, which fell to the Muslim Arabs by AD 640. The area was the focus of the Crusades and was conquered by the Ottoman Turks in 1516. By the late 19th cent., Zionism arose with the aim of establishing a Jewish homeland in Palestine, and during World War I the British, who captured the area, appeared to support this goal. After the League of Nations approved (1922) the British mandate of Palestine, Jews immigrated there in large numbers despite Arab opposition. There was tension and violence between Jews and Arabs, and the British, unable to resolve the problem, turned (1947) the Palestine question over to the UN. At that time there were about 1,091,000 unorganized Muslims, 614,000 Jews, and 146,000 Christians in Palestine."


By the way the above little history blurb is Palestinian, their version. I agree the UN had no right to do what they did, but they did now live with it. Israel has done more for the area then 8000 years of Palestinian residency.
The Country of Palestine
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc

What is an Israel?

Seriously. After blowing off the first and second Covenant when did God forgive them and say that they still had a claim to anything unless they followed the New Covenant? How can a Christian support a fiction called Israel without blowing off the New Covenant and a pissed off God?

Definition of COVENANT

1
: a usually formal, solemn, and binding agreement : compact

2
a : a written agreement or promise usually under seal between two or more parties especially for the performance of some action b : the common-law action to recover damages for breach of such a contract

cov·e·nan·tal \ˌkə-və-ˈnan-təl\ adjective
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc

...The only point that counts is this.........the civilian casualty count in the Gaza operation was incredibly LOW, by ALL counts between a ration of 1:1 and 2:1 civilian to militant deaths (where the standard is 10:1).........therefore all accusations against Israel of serious and wide-spread war crimes involving purposeful attacks on civilians are facetious, politically motivated, and BS.

Full stop.

Simple linear logic.

I disagree. I think its more important that belligerents in a conflict try to avoid civilian casualties. If belligerents deliberately try to kill civilians then kill ratio is beside the point. Deliberately killing civilians is a war crime.

But let's assume that Colpy is correct and the only thing that matters is the kill ratio. Then consider this recent incident:

...Two South Korean marines, Hasa (Sergeant) Seo Jeong-wu and Ilbyeong (Private First Class) Moon Gwang-wuk, were killed. Six other military personnel were seriously wounded, and ten were treated for minor injuries. Two construction workers, Kim Chi-baek, 61, and Bae Bok-chul, 60, were also killed....
Bombardment of Yeonpyeong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Two soldiers vs two civilians killed equals a 1:1 civilian to militant kill ratio.

Not only did the North Koreans keep the kill ratio less than the 10:1 standard, they did a better job of avoiding civilian casualties than the IDF:
1390 Palestinians killed, 759 were non-combatants. That is a 1.2:1 civilian to militant kill ratio.

Colpy, does this mean you admire the North Korean military even more than the IDF?

Since the North Koreans achieved a better kill ratio than the IDF, does that mean you would be just as willing to ignore the North Koreans committing the same war crimes as the IDF?

Can North Korea deliberately target civilians provided the kill ratio is less than 10:1?
Can North Korea deliberately shell densely populated urban areas with heavy artillery and chemical weapons as long as the kill ratio is less than 10:1?
Can North Korea deliberately target ambulances, medics, hospitals, nurses and doctors as long as the kill ratio is less than 10:1?
Can North Korea abduct civilians and use them as human shields to block gunfire and shield North Korean soldiers from explosive devices as long as the kill ratio is less than 10:1?
Can North Korea deliberately attack civilian infrastructure (schools and universities, bomb shelters, water and sewage treatment, power generation, farms, food processing centers...) without any military objective as long as the kill ratio is less than 10:1?


If the North Koreans did the same things to South Korean civilians that the IDF does to Palestinian civilians, somehow I doubt Colpy would be just as willing to defend North Korean war crimes as he is willing to defend IDF war crimes.

If North Korea committed the same war crimes as the IDF, I'd still condemn them. It doesn't make any difference to me who commits war crimes. I'd still want justice.
 
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Colpy

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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc

An Israeli airstrike has killed five Gaza militants in the deadliest attack against the coastal strip in months.

The Israeli military said the men were about to launch a rocket attack against southern Israeli communities when they were struck.

Palestinian officials confirmed the five dead were militants. There were no further details immediately available about their identities.

Israel has for years routinely targeted rocket launchers from Gaza. Such incidents, however, have been scaled back dramatically in the two years since the Israel-Hamas war in Gaza concluded.

Hamas controls the Gaza Strip, while the rival Palestinian Authority governs the West Bank.

Read more: CBC News - World - Israeli airstrike kills 5 Gaza militants

(my emphasis!)

seems Operation Cast Lead was an unqualified success!!!
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc

The Israeli military said the men were about to launch a rocket attack against southern Israeli communities when they were struck
.

Legal or illegal Israeli communities?
 

MHz

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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc

Especially when one considers the Israelis were attacking the most densely populated area on earth, with one of the world's most lethal military machines.

Yet they have to ask the international community (Turkey foremost to those that like irony LOL) to help put out a pine forest fire. Poor allocation of resources in the extreme.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc

The story already lacks accuracy....it was mortars now it's rockets? How much in US tax dollars did it take to **** up the school?
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc

During the 2008 ceasefire, before Operation Cast Lead, Hamas wasn't firing any rockets or mortars at Israel and was arresting anyone who did. Israel's refusal to comply with the agreed terms of the ceasefire and their violent attack in November 2008 (The day the US elected Barack Obama), are among the principle reasons why this area remains a war zone.

YouTube - Who Broke The Cease Fire - Hamas or Israel 2008

Now the rocket and mortar attacks are back to about the same level as before the ceasefire.

List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel, 2009 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel, 2002?2006 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Seems Operation Cast Lead was an unqualified disaster and a war crime.

Meanwhile Israel's humanitarian aid blockade aka "crime against humanity" is in its fourth year. Malnutrition is rampant and many Gazans continue to suffer and die from easily treated diseases. Especially hard hit are young children and pregnant women. Gaza is among the world's most densely populated areas. Israel cleansed itself of hundreds of thousands of impure non-Jews in order to redeem the land God gave to the Jews. As a result, 1.5 million refugees are crammed into a tiny Gaza, surrounded by walls, guard towers and razor wire. Gaza is the world's largest concentration camp.
 
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petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc

I wonder if I can mortar Pilot Butte from here? Who can I blame?
 

CUBert

Time Out
Aug 15, 2010
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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc

It's proven fact Israel used human shields... Hamas? Not so sure.

As well, I'm not sure 1,400 deaths, 2/3 of them being civilians , is that much of a success.
 

Colpy

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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc

It's proven fact Israel used human shields... Hamas? Not so sure.

As well, I'm not sure 1,400 deaths, 2/3 of them being civilians , is that much of a success.

Hamas admits the use of human shields, as seen below.

They also admit the figure of civilian versus military deaths is exactly as Israel has claimed.....one TENTH the level expected in modern conflict.

SPME: Fathi Hamad, the Hamas administration's interior minister, revealed that as many as 700 Hamas military-security operatives were killed during Operation Cast Lead. The number, consistent with Israel's examination, is significantly higher than th
 

CUBert

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Aug 15, 2010
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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc

Can you point out specifically where, better yet quote, where Hamas admits using human shields? I skimmed it quickly and didn't see anything.