Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruction
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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc
Yes of course the poor boy is under restraint, he was throwing rocks (deadly weapons) at the soldiers. Heard he was checked by medical staff right after this picture and was released to his family. Notice no one is acting like they are under fire or in any trouble at all. Israel showed phenomenal restraint with the people of Gaza.
Yes of course the poor boy is under restraint, he was throwing rocks (deadly weapons) at the soldiers. Heard he was checked by medical staff right after this picture and was released to his family. Notice no one is acting like they are under fire or in any trouble at all. Israel showed phenomenal restraint with the people of Gaza.
Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc
Was Hamas hiding behind "human sheilds" at the sewage and fresh water treament plants?
Was Hamas hiding behind "human sheilds" at the sewage and fresh water treament plants?
Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc
Were there sewer operators working that day? Yes, Hamas was hiding behind human shields just by being in the city.
Were there sewer operators working that day? Yes, Hamas was hiding behind human shields just by being in the city.
Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc
When I reference human shields, I'm not referring to Israeli shelling densely populated urban areas with heavy artillery and white phosphorus and then labeling the inevitable high civilian death toll a result of Hamas using human shields.
I'm referring to a well documented and common IDF activity where Israeli soldiers on combat missions randomly abduct civilians including women and children to use as human shields. They use them to knock on doors, search for explosives, block enemy fire... Activity where soldiers literally use civilians as expendable people.
Recent:
I wouldn't be too worried about the seriousness of the sentences for having a complete disregard for non-Israeli human life. I'm sure they'll get their rank back within a few days to weeks...
The IDF's use of human shields is well documented for years:
I can find many well documented examples between 2002 and 2009 without looking too hard.
See the first post on this page
I can condemn both Palestinian and Israeli war crimes. Where have you condemned the well proven IDF use of children as human shields?
... I think that speaks volumes...
When I reference human shields, I'm not referring to Israeli shelling densely populated urban areas with heavy artillery and white phosphorus and then labeling the inevitable high civilian death toll a result of Hamas using human shields.
I'm referring to a well documented and common IDF activity where Israeli soldiers on combat missions randomly abduct civilians including women and children to use as human shields. They use them to knock on doors, search for explosives, block enemy fire... Activity where soldiers literally use civilians as expendable people.
Recent:
Israel demotes 2 soldiers who used Gaza child as a shield | Ya Libnan | World News Live from LebanonIsrael demotes 2 soldiers who used Gaza child as a shield
November 21, 2010
An Israeli military court demoted two soldiers and gave them suspended sentences for forcing a 9- year-old Palestinian boy in the Gaza Strip to open bags that they suspected contained explosives.
The two infantry staff sergeants, who were not identified by name, were found guilty Oct. 3 of “exceeding authority to the point of endangering life and health” and “unsuitable conduct.” They were both sentenced today to suspended terms of three months and demoted to the rank of sergeant, according to an army spokesman who spoke on condition of anonymity in line with military regulations...
I wouldn't be too worried about the seriousness of the sentences for having a complete disregard for non-Israeli human life. I'm sure they'll get their rank back within a few days to weeks...
The IDF's use of human shields is well documented for years:
Jenin: IDF Military Operations
I can find many well documented examples between 2002 and 2009 without looking too hard.
See the first post on this page
I can condemn both Palestinian and Israeli war crimes. Where have you condemned the well proven IDF use of children as human shields?
... I think that speaks volumes...
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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc
Sooner than later Israel and the Arabs going to have to make sacrifices and tow the line. Without any natural resources of their own Israel is going to have to rely on trade and commerce with the Arabs or they are fiscally doomed.
Somebody is going to have to step up to the plate and hit a home run or the entire game is over for both sides.
Sooner than later Israel and the Arabs going to have to make sacrifices and tow the line. Without any natural resources of their own Israel is going to have to rely on trade and commerce with the Arabs or they are fiscally doomed.
Somebody is going to have to step up to the plate and hit a home run or the entire game is over for both sides.
Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc
OF COURSE you aren't referencing Hamas hiding behind the unfortunate population of Gaza........that would mean you would have to blame that particular genocidal bunch of Islamist lunatics with acts unbecoming the wonderful humanitarians you want us to believe they are.....no surprise there.....we've long since given up looking for even-handedness from you........
I wonder how many Hamas operatives have been disciplined for hiding behind civilians???
Hmmmm???
OF COURSE you aren't referencing Hamas hiding behind the unfortunate population of Gaza........that would mean you would have to blame that particular genocidal bunch of Islamist lunatics with acts unbecoming the wonderful humanitarians you want us to believe they are.....no surprise there.....we've long since given up looking for even-handedness from you........
I wonder how many Hamas operatives have been disciplined for hiding behind civilians???
Hmmmm???
Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc
OK, Arm chair general. Please tell us how Hamas should have engaged the IDF? Bear in mind that nearly all of Gaza is a densely populated urban area, surrounded by walls and guard towers where civilians have no where to run, only places to hide.
BTW, the situation as I understand it. As soon as the Israelis began bombing Gaza, everyone ran for shelter and tried to hide out for the duration of the occupation. Very few militants tried to directly engage IDF forces unless cornered. Within a few days the IDF laid waste to a good portion of Gaza encountering little resistance. The IDF took some human shields, advanced into strategic locations throughout Gaza, occupied some positions and waited. After a while, IDF soldiers began shelling civilian targets like water towers and Mosque minarets out of boredom. Periodically some militants would run out into an empty field carrying a missile or mortar, fire it off and run for their lives. That was Operation Cast lead in a nutshell.
OK, Arm chair general. Please tell us how Hamas should have engaged the IDF? Bear in mind that nearly all of Gaza is a densely populated urban area, surrounded by walls and guard towers where civilians have no where to run, only places to hide.
BTW, the situation as I understand it. As soon as the Israelis began bombing Gaza, everyone ran for shelter and tried to hide out for the duration of the occupation. Very few militants tried to directly engage IDF forces unless cornered. Within a few days the IDF laid waste to a good portion of Gaza encountering little resistance. The IDF took some human shields, advanced into strategic locations throughout Gaza, occupied some positions and waited. After a while, IDF soldiers began shelling civilian targets like water towers and Mosque minarets out of boredom. Periodically some militants would run out into an empty field carrying a missile or mortar, fire it off and run for their lives. That was Operation Cast lead in a nutshell.
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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc
BINGO!!
Now you're getting to the root of the problem. Hamas SHOULD NOT have engaged the IDF. They were spoiling for war for years, and they got it. End of story.
BINGO!!
Now you're getting to the root of the problem. Hamas SHOULD NOT have engaged the IDF. They were spoiling for war for years, and they got it. End of story.
Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc
Explain to me then how the Israelis only killed (at the absolute most) 1400 people in 22 days of civilian bombardment. Remember, even Hamas admits that fully one half of those were militants.
What you are trying to make me believe is that one of the most advanced militarys on earth, attacking the most densely populated place on earth, and intent on "collective punishment" of civilians......managed to kill LESS than 35 non-combatants every day.
Keep in mind that 60 years ago militarys attacking less populated areas from the air only killed many tens of thousands in an evening. With the technology of over half a century ago. Without artillery, missiles, or infantry.
The facts belie your contention.
Explain to me then how the Israelis only killed (at the absolute most) 1400 people in 22 days of civilian bombardment. Remember, even Hamas admits that fully one half of those were militants.
What you are trying to make me believe is that one of the most advanced militarys on earth, attacking the most densely populated place on earth, and intent on "collective punishment" of civilians......managed to kill LESS than 35 non-combatants every day.
Keep in mind that 60 years ago militarys attacking less populated areas from the air only killed many tens of thousands in an evening. With the technology of over half a century ago. Without artillery, missiles, or infantry.
The facts belie your contention.
Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc
How many documented examples would you like of the IDF slaughtering civilians before you condemn the IDF's use of civilians as human shields?
Sometimes it even makes the news albeit with qualifiers questioning the credibility...
Do you believe this happened or not?
How many documented examples would you like of the IDF slaughtering civilians before you condemn the IDF's use of civilians as human shields?
Sometimes it even makes the news albeit with qualifiers questioning the credibility...
Do you believe this happened or not?
Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc
How many times did this happen, once that was verified and soldiers punished. You make it sound like it is a normal practice by Israeli soldiers. In war things happen, and usually those who do them are punished.
Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc
I can find countless examples of the IDF gunning down unarmed civilians, using human shields, bombing hospitals, attacking medical staff and international aid workers....
In this video, you can witness the IDF gunning down Palestinian medics as they attempt to carry the wounded back to their ambulance and bombed hospitals:
Video: Gaza war crimes investigation - attacks on medics | World news | guardian.co.uk
I equally condemn all war crimes, regardless of who commits them. Most Canadians are well aware of the few committed by Palestinians, but we know far less about the many committed by Israel.
This report details the few Palestinian war crimes and the many Israeli ones. It also describes Israel's on going crime against humanity against the 1.4 million inmates of the Gaza concentration camp.
United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza conflict
I can find countless examples of the IDF gunning down unarmed civilians, using human shields, bombing hospitals, attacking medical staff and international aid workers....
In this video, you can witness the IDF gunning down Palestinian medics as they attempt to carry the wounded back to their ambulance and bombed hospitals:
Video: Gaza war crimes investigation - attacks on medics | World news | guardian.co.uk
I equally condemn all war crimes, regardless of who commits them. Most Canadians are well aware of the few committed by Palestinians, but we know far less about the many committed by Israel.
This report details the few Palestinian war crimes and the many Israeli ones. It also describes Israel's on going crime against humanity against the 1.4 million inmates of the Gaza concentration camp.
United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza conflict
Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc
The war is over for the patients, yet Hamas continues to kill. Don't see to much about human rights violations, those against Hamas or even thought to be just have a accident.
In the fourth floor orthopedic section, a woman in her late twenties asked a militant to let her see Saleh Hajoj, her 32-year-old husband. She was turned away and left the hospital. Fifteen minutes later, Hajoj was carried out of his room by young men pretending to transfer him to another hospital section. As he lay on the stretcher, he was shot in the left side of the head. A bit of brain emerged on the other side of his skull.
Militants roam hospitals in search of collaborators - thestar.com
You need another source of what Hamas is or has done to its own.
Iranian-backed Hamas terrorists killing Arab rivals in Gaza // Current
The war is over for the patients, yet Hamas continues to kill. Don't see to much about human rights violations, those against Hamas or even thought to be just have a accident.
In the fourth floor orthopedic section, a woman in her late twenties asked a militant to let her see Saleh Hajoj, her 32-year-old husband. She was turned away and left the hospital. Fifteen minutes later, Hajoj was carried out of his room by young men pretending to transfer him to another hospital section. As he lay on the stretcher, he was shot in the left side of the head. A bit of brain emerged on the other side of his skull.
Militants roam hospitals in search of collaborators - thestar.com
You need another source of what Hamas is or has done to its own.
Iranian-backed Hamas terrorists killing Arab rivals in Gaza // Current
Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc
And still you sidestep the point...........obviously the Israelis DID NOT aim their attacks at civilians, as they killed as many militants as they did civilians....using air power, artillery, and infantry.
That is an incredibly GOOD record. One Hamas certainly can't match. Especially when one considers the Israelis were attacking the most densely populated area on earth, with one of the world's most lethal military machines...
Civilian casualty ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Israelis, (I say it again) fought in the most densely populated area on earth, and caused one TENTH the civilian casualties that can be expected in modern conflict.
All you put out on this subject is anti-Israel propaganda, based on the flimsiest of evidence, with accident put forth as purposeful, with the inevitable, but rare cases of abuse extrapolated to the entire cause, with the misdeeeds of the Palestinians completely ignored, for the purpose of demonizing the ONLY free nation in the ME.......
The ultimate lie put to your so-called "concern" for international human rights by your stated support of China.....
Your contention is false, your bias is overwhelming, your goals are despicable.
Don't matter how you dance, you can't escape the FACTS: Hamas admits the death of 650 to 700 militants, they include the police killed in that figure, and Palestinian Human Rights groups put the death toll at 1416.
Which means, overall, Israel behaved in an exemplary fashion.
Deal with it. It is truth.
And still you sidestep the point...........obviously the Israelis DID NOT aim their attacks at civilians, as they killed as many militants as they did civilians....using air power, artillery, and infantry.
That is an incredibly GOOD record. One Hamas certainly can't match. Especially when one considers the Israelis were attacking the most densely populated area on earth, with one of the world's most lethal military machines...
Civilian casualty ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Israelis, (I say it again) fought in the most densely populated area on earth, and caused one TENTH the civilian casualties that can be expected in modern conflict.
All you put out on this subject is anti-Israel propaganda, based on the flimsiest of evidence, with accident put forth as purposeful, with the inevitable, but rare cases of abuse extrapolated to the entire cause, with the misdeeeds of the Palestinians completely ignored, for the purpose of demonizing the ONLY free nation in the ME.......
The ultimate lie put to your so-called "concern" for international human rights by your stated support of China.....
Your contention is false, your bias is overwhelming, your goals are despicable.
Don't matter how you dance, you can't escape the FACTS: Hamas admits the death of 650 to 700 militants, they include the police killed in that figure, and Palestinian Human Rights groups put the death toll at 1416.
Which means, overall, Israel behaved in an exemplary fashion.
Deal with it. It is truth.
Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc
I'll side with international laws and human rights groups over IDF and Hamas regarding who is and isn't a civilian.
According to B'tselem (an Israeli Human Rights organization):
Do the math. Even by the IDF's numbers, Palestinian militants still had a far better civilian to belligerent ratio than the IDF by randomly firing unguided rockets in the general direction of Israel.
Regarding dealing with the truth, I'll repost the link to this video again, because you must not have watched it.
Video: Gaza war crimes investigation - attacks on medics | World news | guardian.co.uk
After watching the video, what are you going believe Colpy? The IDF or your own eyes? You can't get a more blatant example of a war crime than that video. Here's the Operation Cast Lead tally of dead and wounded ambulance paramedics:
A difference between us Colpy, is that I can condemn the war criminals on both sides. You can't bring yourself to say anything negative about Israeli war criminals, no matter how blatant or outrageous their crimes.
I'll side with international laws and human rights groups over IDF and Hamas regarding who is and isn't a civilian.
According to B'tselem (an Israeli Human Rights organization):
B'Tselem - The Gaza Strip - Operation Cast Lead, 27 Dec. '08 to 18 Jan. '09
Do the math. Even by the IDF's numbers, Palestinian militants still had a far better civilian to belligerent ratio than the IDF by randomly firing unguided rockets in the general direction of Israel.
Regarding dealing with the truth, I'll repost the link to this video again, because you must not have watched it.
Video: Gaza war crimes investigation - attacks on medics | World news | guardian.co.uk
After watching the video, what are you going believe Colpy? The IDF or your own eyes? You can't get a more blatant example of a war crime than that video. Here's the Operation Cast Lead tally of dead and wounded ambulance paramedics:
Attacks on ambulance workers at Livewire – Amnesty International blogging for human rightsAttacks on ambulance workers
Ambulance hit by missile from an Israeli tank shell on 4 January 2009 while picking up wounded men in Beit Lahya, Gaza ©Amnesty International
Tuesday, 27 January: Under the Geneva Conventions, medical personnel searching, collecting, transporting or treating the wounded should be protected and respected in all circumstances. Common Article 3 of the Conventions says that the wounded should be collected and cared for, including combatants who are hors de combat.
These provisions of international law have not been respected during the recent three-week conflict in the Gaza Strip. Emergency medical rescue workers, including doctors, paramedics and ambulance drivers, repeatedly came under fire from Israeli forces while they were carrying out their duties. At least seven were killed and more than 20 were injured while they were transporting or attempting to collect the wounded and the dead....
A difference between us Colpy, is that I can condemn the war criminals on both sides. You can't bring yourself to say anything negative about Israeli war criminals, no matter how blatant or outrageous their crimes.
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Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc
Now you are nitpicking, to quote you: "During the operation, Palestinians fired rockets and mortar shells at Israel, with the declared purpose of striking Israeli civilians." How many they actually hit just show they are not the greatest shots, or were using faulty equipment. By your own statement the Palestinians were targeting civilians. Palestinians will set up 25 or so cheap home made rockets and just shoot them in the direction of a town or city, they don't care where they land as long as something blows up. Just because Israel shots back a better quality rocket that usually hits something, you call them the bad guys, they are the better guys. IED's planted by the terrorist do not differentiate between a troop carrier and a ambulance.
Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc
If you really want to know what is happening, watch this.
I am Israel - Yerushalayim Version
YouTube - I am Israel - Yerushalayim Version
If you really want to know what is happening, watch this.
I am Israel - Yerushalayim Version
YouTube - I am Israel - Yerushalayim Version
Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc
A video which consists of carefully selected images backed up by a pro-IDF/Israel narrative and dramatic music and completely ignores the Palestinian situation isn't exactly an objective source of information. Its more of an IDF recruitment video than informative.
I reference Amnesty International, Human rights Watch, B'tselem, the International Committee of the Red Cross and many other human rights organization which has published reports on this conflict and I have drawn these conclusions:
Palestinian rocket and mortar fire directed at Israeli civilians are war crimes.
The IDF deliberately targeting civilians are war crimes.
The IDF pounding densely populated urban areas with heavy artillery and chemical weapons are war crimes.
The IDF deliberating targeting ambulances, medics, hospitals, nurses and doctors are war crimes.
The IDF abduction of civilians and use as human shields to block gunfire and shield IDF soldiers from explosive devices are war crimes.
The IDF deliberating attacking civilian infrastructure (schools and universities, bomb shelters, water and sewage treatment, power generation, farms, food processing centers...) without any military objective are war crimes.
Israel's ongoing humanitarian aid blockade which restricts food and medicine for 1.4 million Gazans and leads to malnutrition and people dying of easily treated diseases is a crime against humanity because of the level of suffering and number of people affected.
I condemn all the above war crimes and crimes against humanity. You can only condemn Palestinian war crimes. Instead of trying to defend Israeli war crimes you try to ignore them and pretend they don't exist.
A video which consists of carefully selected images backed up by a pro-IDF/Israel narrative and dramatic music and completely ignores the Palestinian situation isn't exactly an objective source of information. Its more of an IDF recruitment video than informative.
I reference Amnesty International, Human rights Watch, B'tselem, the International Committee of the Red Cross and many other human rights organization which has published reports on this conflict and I have drawn these conclusions:
Palestinian rocket and mortar fire directed at Israeli civilians are war crimes.
The IDF deliberately targeting civilians are war crimes.
The IDF pounding densely populated urban areas with heavy artillery and chemical weapons are war crimes.
The IDF deliberating targeting ambulances, medics, hospitals, nurses and doctors are war crimes.
The IDF abduction of civilians and use as human shields to block gunfire and shield IDF soldiers from explosive devices are war crimes.
The IDF deliberating attacking civilian infrastructure (schools and universities, bomb shelters, water and sewage treatment, power generation, farms, food processing centers...) without any military objective are war crimes.
Israel's ongoing humanitarian aid blockade which restricts food and medicine for 1.4 million Gazans and leads to malnutrition and people dying of easily treated diseases is a crime against humanity because of the level of suffering and number of people affected.
I condemn all the above war crimes and crimes against humanity. You can only condemn Palestinian war crimes. Instead of trying to defend Israeli war crimes you try to ignore them and pretend they don't exist.
Re: Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruc
Pointed edited and targeted video to make Israel appear in the wrong. Now you realize what is happning, you proved it when I put up the one about Israel. Till now, I avoided those kinds of propaganda videos, thought you would have caught on by now with what Amnesty International and the Palestinians have been doing since 1968 or so. Sorry to pop your bubble, but the Palestinians have been trying to con the world since the inception of Israel.
Pointed edited and targeted video to make Israel appear in the wrong. Now you realize what is happning, you proved it when I put up the one about Israel. Till now, I avoided those kinds of propaganda videos, thought you would have caught on by now with what Amnesty International and the Palestinians have been doing since 1968 or so. Sorry to pop your bubble, but the Palestinians have been trying to con the world since the inception of Israel.