Almost all new jobs created during the pandemic were in the public sector, report finds.

The_Foxer

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There are several PPP hospitals around so that sort of makes the government a partner in a for profit enterprise.
Not really, it's more like private lending. The hospital has no ability to compete in a competative market, it's still controlled by the gov't and the revenues and staff are essentially paid for by the gov't. The private sector is providing the facility. So it's more of a really kind of odd lease program for the hospital. That does generate a LITTLE economic activity but very little in comparison to the actual money being spent.

I mean ALL gov't activity has SOME impact on the private sector - they buy pens made by private companies, paper and computers made by private companies etc. But as a percent of the actual expenditures it's negligible.

Here's a good way to measure it - if the gov't money was taken away and nothing else changed, would the 'business' survive? in the case of PPP hospitals no, they would die. They wouldn't be allowed to charge for services directly under our laws and with no gov't money they'd be shut down. So it's not really a 'free enterprise' kind of business. It's not regulated by the free market. It requires gov't to drain money from the economic system in order to provide services.
'
A capitalist money system is based on the idea that all income is a result of a fair exchange of services and goods for other services or goods (including currency). That tends to level inflation because the more money being made means the more goods and services that were produced for people to buy. Gov't provided services step outside of that model but rely on that model for their money.

And that's not necessarily automatically 'evil' or anything. But - if the private sector is shrinking or slowing down in comparison to the gov't then that's a bad thing, and the gov't tends to be a bit of an anchor for the private sector as it draws off money and resources from that system without replacing it with equal value.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Sez the law :)


So not private enterprises offering services outside the act...


ALl of which can only provide Health Act services when paid for by the gov't on the gov'ts terms as I previously noted so they don't count ...



The federal gov't is still a gov't, soooooo.....

Hmmm. So.. where exactly are all these private facilities that can offer whatever health care they want and take money directly from the public? ohhhhh that's right, pretty much non existent :)

The closest they come is the handful of private clinics that provide non health act services and the private individual pays. But if the gov't pays all the money and is the only client, then that's a gov't facility even if the facility itself is in private hands. It's still tax dollars being used to provide services, it's not creating wealth or services as part of our economy. They're spending gov't money which was siphoned from the economy.
You've never heard of cash making "elective surgeries" which are highly profitable have you?

Where do you think they're done? Canadian Tire?
 

The_Foxer

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You've never heard of cash making "elective surgeries" which are highly profitable have you?

Where do you think they're done? Canadian Tire?
Those are proceedures not covered by the act as i mentioned earlier, or which are paid for by the gov't which we've already discussed. Try to pay attention.
 

The_Foxer

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So there still are no private hospitals that turn profits in Canada?
There are no private 'hospitals' which turn a profit by selling to the general public. There are privately owned facilities that are used by the gov't to provide provincial medical services but we've already discussed why that's not the same as a truly 'private hospital'. There are some private clinics which provide services that are not restricted by the act but again that's not the same thing, and the nurses there wouldn't be gov't funded employees. There have been cases of facilities providing services that are 'grey area' but they tend to get shut down: Or they're forced back under the gov't's control.

But lets imagine for a second that this WAS allowed and private hospitals existed where you could walk in and pay for medical services covered by the act. In such cases the nurses and doctors would obviously NOT be gov't employees - and what we're discussing here is gov't employees growing faster than private sector employees.

I don't know how to explain the difference between a gov't employee and a private sector employee more simply than i already have. If you can't get your head around the difference then honestly i just don't know what to tell you.
 

The_Foxer

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They contract to Govt and turn profits. Nobody goes into business to lose money.

It's fact, they exist.
I dont' think you understand what's being said here. They're basically leasing out the facility, but they're not actually selling medical services to the general public. So the "profit" is just gov't tax money being spent on delivering services. They're just gov't contractors. It's like the nurses at a regular hospital make a 'profit' (wages) as well, but it is outside of the free market system and is from the gov't.

Seriously if this is too complex a concept for you, the idea that there's gov't money and free market money, then it's a waste of time to discuss it further.
 

pgs

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More like lying about having caught cormorants or that they don't get tangled in lines. :) Stay in school kid :)
Did I ever say cormorants never get caught in lines ? Maybe you should go back to school for a course on comprehension old man .
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
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I dont' think you understand what's being said here. They're basically leasing out the facility, but they're not actually selling medical services to the general public. So the "profit" is just gov't tax money being spent on delivering services. They're just gov't contractors. It's like the nurses at a regular hospital make a 'profit' (wages) as well, but it is outside of the free market system and is from the gov't.

Seriously if this is too complex a concept for you, the idea that there's gov't money and free market money, then it's a waste of time to discuss it further.
You really are a piece of work . Why not just discuss it with yourself .
 

The_Foxer

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Did I ever say cormorants never get caught in lines ?
Yup - when i mentioned it you said i obviously didn't know what i was talking about. So yeah, you did. Sounds like you're the one with comprehension issues, which is sad considering.

Stay in school kid :)
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
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I dont' think you understand what's being said here. They're basically leasing out the facility, but they're not actually selling medical services to the general public. So the "profit" is just gov't tax money being spent on delivering services. They're just gov't contractors. It's like the nurses at a regular hospital make a 'profit' (wages) as well, but it is outside of the free market system and is from the gov't.

Seriously if this is too complex a concept for you, the idea that there's gov't money and free market money, then it's a waste of time to discuss it further.
They do sell to the general public, go get a tit job priced out.
 

The_Foxer

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You really are a piece of work . Why not just discuss it with yourself .
So... you can't grasp the discussion, and somehow that's my fault. Kay :)

Look i'm sorry this is hard for you. But there is in fact a difference between a free market / private sector and gov't services. The private sector doesn't really need the gov't to make it's money, and a capitalist model tends to automatically level supply and demand. A gov't requires a private sector to provide it with money through taxation and such, and if the gov't economy is growing faster than the private sector economy that funds it then there's a problem. It's really not that complex. You're trying to pick some sort of fight arguing that this is not true but it's the way it is and it's not like that's just an opinion or something,
 

The_Foxer

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They do sell to the general public, go get a tit job priced out.
Sigh. So as i've said multiple times that would be services outside the act. And that's not really a 'hospital'. Seriously man if you can't read what's being written then I can't help you
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
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It goes like this. Private and Public Hospitals rent facilities as well as staff (usless nurses and support staff) and supply accoutrements to the specialists doing electives at a profit. The specialists then bills appropriate customer at a profit be it Provincial formula, private insurance or patient.

You can stay in the corner you painted yourself into or accept how the system works

So back to the point, nurses and HC staff do contribute to the economy.
 

Dixie Cup

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Sep 16, 2006
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There are several PPP hospitals around so that sort of makes the government a partner in a for profit enterprise.
Huh where are they? I know there are private surgical clinics but hospitals? If I would have known, I could have gotten my hip replaced much faster & it looks like the other hip needs it as well so I want to know where these hospitals are so I can see if I can get things done (maybe) sooner?
 

pgs

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So... you can't grasp the discussion, and somehow that's my fault. Kay :)

Look i'm sorry this is hard for you. But there is in fact a difference between a free market / private sector and gov't services. The private sector doesn't really need the gov't to make it's money, and a capitalist model tends to automatically level supply and demand. A gov't requires a private sector to provide it with money through taxation and such, and if the gov't economy is growing faster than the private sector economy that funds it then there's a problem. It's really not that complex. You're trying to pick some sort of fight arguing that this is not true but it's the way it is and it's not like that's just an opinion or something,
There you go , talking to yourself .
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
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Huh where are they? I know there are private surgical clinics but hospitals?
 

The_Foxer

House Member
Aug 9, 2022
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It goes like this. Private and Public Hospitals rent facilities as well as staff (usless nurses and support staff) and supply accoutrements to the specialists doing electives at a profit. The specialists then bills appropriate customer at a profit be it Provincial formula, private insurance or patient.

You can stay in the corner you painted yourself into or accept how the system works

So back to the point, nurses and HC staff do contribute to the economy.
Not the appropriate customer. The gov't.

I'm utterly amazed at how you don't get this.

And no, gov't funded nurses and HC don't contribute significantly to the economy - their wages come from a gov't who imposes a drag on the economy which is greater than the value of the services they provide. Which is NOT as i have said the same as "nurses work isn't valuable or important" in OTHER respects.

But you'd have to be 7 different kinds of stupid not to get this - Gov't expenditures do not benefit the growth of the economy over time the way that private enterprise does. If the private economy slows down while gov't spending increases, there is going to be a problem.

that's just fact. Sorry that it doesn't fit your little echo chamber thing you've got going on there.
 

Taxslave2

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Huh where are they? I know there are private surgical clinics but hospitals? If I would have known, I could have gotten my hip replaced much faster & it looks like the other hip needs it as well so I want to know where these hospitals are so I can see if I can get things done (maybe) sooner?
Comox. Campbell River that I know of for sure.