Almost all new jobs created during the pandemic were in the public sector, report finds.

The_Foxer

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Actually, Canada has a two-tiered health system, that even our government acknowledges which is why the NDP wants the government to cover more serices. Chiropractors, Physiotherapists, Dentists - are all private so if you have no private insurance, you pay out of pocket. But Private insurance usually cover about 80% (some 90%) of that actual cost - the rest is out of pocket.
And drugs of course. But that's not really' two tier' per se, that's more like Co-existing private and public. Or a dual system. Usually when people speak of two tier they mean that for the same services you have the basic tier for one group recieving specific services and then another for another group - an example would be your hip replacement. One group of 'commoners' gets it free but waits, the other pays a few bucks more and jumps the line.

To a degree we DO actually have that, for example wcb often gets its injured workers to the head of the line, but it's still gov't. So it's not REALLY two tier, it's just that some people are more equal than others :)

It's a semantics game but an important one.

at the end of the day for the purposes of this discussion tho it boils down to the source of the money - is it free market or gov't? The free market creates wealth, the gov't must tax wealth to provide whatever it's doing and free market rules go out the window. Taxes do not create wealth, they're a drag on wealth that's already been created, so if employment is rising faster in the gov't paid services than it is in the free market, that means the drag on the free market has to increase and that's a sort of death spiral.
 

petros

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Actually, Canada has a two-tiered health system, that even our government acknowledges which is why the NDP wants the government to cover more serices. Chiropractors, Physiotherapists, Dentists - are all private so if you have no private insurance, you pay out of pocket. But Private insurance usually cover about 80% (some 90%) of that actual cost - the rest is out of pocket.
Thats Provincial. Some Provinces cover chiro and physio.
 

pgs

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Nov 29, 2008
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NDP health critic France Gelinas criticized the idea of further privatization.

"They'll bleed staff away from our public hospitals and urgent care centres, making the health-care crisis much worse," she said in a written statement.

"If private surgery clinics accept your OHIP card for your procedure, they bill you for your room, the painkillers you take, your meals, the physical therapy you need and more."

Parts of health care are delivered by private companies, including many long-term care homes and nursing agencies. Hospitals have been using nursing agencies more and more during the staffing crisis, health-care officials say.

But those nurses come at a premium cost, said Dr. Michael Warner, an intensive care physician at Toronto's Michael Garron Hospital.

"Why is it that my hospital, for example, has at least three private agencies providing nurses every day to our hospital at a premium that's costing the hospital more than they'll have to pay our nurses?" Warner said.

"It's costing them sometimes double or triple the amount to pay these private companies."

Warner said some agencies are charging $110 per hour plus HST for a nurse.

Cathryn Hoy, the president of Ontario Nurses' Association, a union that represents more than 60,000 nurses and health-care workers, said some agencies are now charging hospitals more than $200 per hour, nearly four times what they charged before the pandemic.

Ford said there was little he could do about the situation.

"I can't control per se the private sector," he said when asked if it was price gouging.

And then choked on a bee.
Laying off 20%or so of your nursing staff has it’s consequences.
 

The_Foxer

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Laying off 20%or so of your nursing staff has it’s consequences.
Accurate. ANd many of those nurses can get paid well for doing stuff that doesn't even reuqire a registered nurse's license to do, but it's a major selling point to have one.

THAT would be a good example of a nurse outside of the gov't payroll actually creating economic wealth. But they're not a gov't employee anymore at that point.
 

Taxslave2

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Aug 13, 2022
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If A hospital accepts your ohip card they bill you for a private room, internet, a tv, all kinds of things , etc etc. Meals are not medical services. That's why even gov't hospitals have a cafeteria. She's just wrong. It's the ndp so that shouldn't come as a shock. It's still the gov't paying for it and setting the prices outside of the free market for medical services.

As to the nursing contractors, it's the same thing as a janitorial contractor. It's still the gov't paying the bill and setting the prices outside of the free market. they're just negotiating a higher rate for the nurses and pocketing a fee - the unions do that too. And that's the problem as far as the ndp is concerned, they don't mind the gov't paying the money, they just want it in the pockets of their union friends and not someone else.

If the gov't pays a contractor to build a new hospital for them, the contractor will make money (hopefully). But - it's STILL GOV"T MONEY. This is not coming from free market activity. Which means it came from taxes etc which means it's still a drag on the economy AND it can lead to inflation.

Yes, and while that was in fact one of the most hilarious things ever there's no evidence of whether the bee was a private individual or a gov't drone :)

Let me try to put this in the most basic way - imagine if the gov't provided EVERYTHING and paid for EVERY business. All businesses everywhere is now run by the gov't on a cost recovery basis. Where would the money come from? Even if they tax the workers they're only getting back a portion of what they gave the workers in the first place. And what would be the motivation to start a new business or create new industry?

That is the issue we're discussing. While gov't employees like nurses may do things we consider valuable, they don't create the wealth the gov't needs to tax to be able to pay for it.
only sort of. WHen the hospital is a 3P the private company generally forks out most of the cash up front and gets reimbursed from sales and management fees.
 

petros

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only sort of. WHen the hospital is a 3P the private company generally forks out most of the cash up front and gets reimbursed from sales and management fees.
Its not hard to find ETFs on TSX investing in hospitals and healthcare.

Details​


BTW, meals are covered and companies supplying nurse to private for profit hospitals, public hospitals and clinics are making profits.

His premise that nurses dont contribute is just the ramblings of an out of touch old fart with nithing to do all day.
 
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Tecumsehsbones

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Y'all need to do what we do. We treat public employees so badly nobody'll take the jobs!

COLUMBIA, S.C. — A little-noticed, slow-moving crisis has been infecting states, counties and towns across the country, leaving governments unable to fulfill their most basic functions.

In Indianapolis, trash isn’t getting picked up. In Jefferson County, Colo., potholes aren’t being patched. In Franklin County, Wis., school bus routes have been canceled. In Florida, prisons are having trouble operating and called in the National Guard for help. In Missouri, Medicaid enrollment forms are waiting months to get processed. And here in Richland County, S.C., a project to connect rural homes to a public sewer system was delayed.

The cause? A nationwide shortage of public workers.

Pandemic-era labor shortages have been well-documented. But the situation for state and local governments is much worse than in the private sector. In fact, the private sector has already recovered the jobs lost early in the pandemic; there are 885,000 more jobs filled in the private industry today than in February 2020.

The public sector is a completely different story. State and local governments are down 647,000 positions on net since February 2020.

Roughly half the decline is in education, causing major disruptions as children return to school amid teacher shortages. But the other half is workers missing from virtually every other government function — paramedics, sanitation workers, child-welfare advocates, heavy-equipment operators, you name it.

This wasn’t supposed to happen. At least, not this time.
Linky-dinky.
 

The_Foxer

Council Member
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only sort of. WHen the hospital is a 3P the private company generally forks out most of the cash up front and gets reimbursed from sales and management fees.
Sure. And we did mention that earlier that its almost sort of a weird 'lease' agreement where they're putting up funds the gov't doesn't have to build something the gov't needs pretty much exclusively for gov't use but they make money on the administration. But it's still gov't money driving it rather than free market capital paying the bills.
 

The_Foxer

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Its not hard to find ETFs on TSX investing in hospitals and healthcare.

Details​

We've already been over this. If you can't comprehend it then i'm sorry for you, but that's how it is.
BTW, meals are covered and companies supplying nurse to private for profit hospitals, public hospitals and clinics are making profits.
It's not a question of whether or not they're making profits - it's a question of whether it's free market or gov't money. Technically most doctors are indepenedant 'companies' so they make a 'profit', but it's all gov't tax dollars. So it's not part of the wealth creation process of the free market.

Again, if this is over your head i can understand that but you need to make peace with the idea you're just not up to grasping this.
His premise that nurses dont contribute is just the ramblings of an out of touch old fart with nithing to do all day
Umm - what was it you said earlier about derrogatory comments?

Plain and simple - you're just too stupid to get this. There you go - there's your derrogatory comment after plenty from you - so you go ahead and make sure i never post here again you ass. You feel you can attack me personally no problem and threaten me if i dare do the same? Fuck you. It's not my fault you have the brains of a deceased slug.

And the fact you'd have to lie about what i said proves that you know you're wrong. I never said nurses don't "contribute" . I said gov't employees, nurses as an example, don't generate wealth as part of the capitalist free market model - the gov't drains that free market to obtain it's revenues. So if they're growing faster than the wealth generators that fund them, that's a problem.