AGW Denial, The Greatest Scam in History?

[petros]

How well did the moon fair? Are they getting lunar warming too?

Did I mention the billions of tonnes of sulfur used to condition farmland from over fertilizing and irrigation?

Massive release of hydrogen sulfide to the surface ocean and atmosphere during intervals of oceanic anoxia

Lee R. Kump*,1, Alexander Pavlov*,2 and Michael A. Arthur*,3

[SIZE=-1]1 Department of Geosciences, Pennsylvania State University, 535 Deike Building, University Park, Pennsylvania 16802, USA
2 Center for Astrobiology, Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics, University of Colorado, C.B. 392, Boulder, Colorado 80309-0392, USA
3 Department of Geosciences, Pennsylvania State University, 538 Deike Building, University Park, Pennsylvania 16802, USA [/SIZE]Simple calculations show that if deep-water H2S concentrations increased beyond a critical threshold during oceanic anoxic intervals of Earth history, the chemocline separating sulfidic deep waters from oxygenated surface waters could have risen abruptly to the ocean surface (a chemocline upward excursion). Atmospheric photochemical modeling indicates that resulting fluxes of H2S to the atmosphere (>2000 times the small modern flux from volcanoes) would likely have led to toxic levels of H2S in the atmosphere. Moreover, the ozone shield would have been destroyed, and methane levels would have risen to >100 ppm. We thus propose (1) chemocline upward excursion as a kill mechanism during the end-Permian, Late Devonian, and Cenomanian–Turonian extinctions, and (2) persistently high atmospheric H2S levels as a factor that impeded evolution of eukaryotic life on land during the Proterozoic.

Earth catastrophies are numerous and extremlely diverse.

 

[AnnaG]

Density and fresh water that doesn't mix and traps heat under that layer of freshwater raising overall temps.

You can run a turbine to make electricty using brine and freshwater ponds collecting solar energy.

Oh, I see what you're getting at.

Sheeesh I got lost here:

http://web.mit.edu/raffaele/www/Publications_files/RudnickFerrariScience99.pdf

How well did the moon fair? Are they getting lunar warming too?

Did I mention the billions of tonnes of sulfur used to condition farmland from over fertilizing and irrigation?
Earth catastrophies are numerous and extremlely diverse.

And we should be proud to do what we can to contribute to their escalation.

June Was Earth’s Warmest Month On Record

June Was Earth?s Warmest Month On Record - Science News - redOrbit

The U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) announced Thursday that last month was the hottest June ever recorded on Earth.
According to NOAA's National Climatic Data Center, the combined global land and ocean surface temperature data also showed that the January-June and April-June periods were the warmest on record, which go back as far as 1880.
The combined average for global land and ocean temperatures in June was 61.1 degrees Fahrenheit, which are 1.22 degrees Fahrenheit higher than the 20th century average of 59.9 degrees Fahrenheit.
According to NOAA, temperatures warmer than average spread throughout the globe in recent months, more dominantly in areas like Peru, the central and eastern U.S. and in eastern and western Asia.

But it was a really cool June here so I think NOAA is off its rocker.

 

[Avro]

If exposing the climate deniers makes me a scumbag so be it

What do you get when you cross a retired weatherman with a wannabe British aristocrat?
No wait, that's not it.
A retired weatherman and a former political hack for Margaret Thatcher walk into a bar and the bartender tells them both that if they want a drink they have to stop pretending they're experts in climate science.
Oh, and they should stop calling people (like me) a scumbag, it just makes them less attractive to the ladies at the bar than they already are.
Enough with the joke metaphors.
Someone sent along a post written by the puzzling Christopher Monckton - the guy with a penchant for high-brow verbiage and accusations of Nazi-facist activities. The post was on Anthony Watts' blog - the retired weatherman and equally unqualified as a our Monckton when it comes to the science of climate change.
It looks as though Watts has taken to calling me a "scumbag." Here's the screenshot where "A" responds to one of his reader's comments:

Watts should know that I go ballistic at least 10 times a day about something or other (today it was my coffee cup lid leaking every time I took a sip). As for me being a scumbag... well I would say to that, grow up.
It must be getting frustrating for the likes of Watts and Monckton to be sliding back into obscurity now that the climategate scandal has been determined by no less than three different inquiries to be nothing more than manufactured hot air.
Watts and Monckton have both been breathless activists when it comes to using the stolen emails to fit their conspiracy theories around climate change and now that they have been proven incorrect they must be feeling a little bit hurt.
At least for Watts it looks like that has taken the form of name-calling.

 

[gopher]

NOAA: Past Decade Warmest on Record According to Scientists in 48 Countries

Earth has been growing warmer for more than fifty years

NOAA - National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration - NOAA: Past Decade Warmest on Record According to Scientists in 48 Countries

The 2009 State of the Climate report released today draws on data for 10 key climate indicators that all point to the same finding: the scientific evidence that our world is warming is unmistakable. More than 300 scientists from 160 research groups in 48 countries contributed to the report, which confirms that the past decade was the warmest on record and that the Earth has been growing warmer over the last 50 years.
Based on comprehensive data from multiple sources, the report defines 10 measurable planet-wide features used to gauge global temperature changes. The relative movement of each of these indicators proves consistent with a warming world. Seven indicators are rising: air temperature over land, sea-surface temperature, air temperature over oceans, sea level, ocean heat, humidity and tropospheric temperature in the “active-weather” layer of the atmosphere closest to the Earth’s surface. Three indicators are declining: Arctic sea ice, glaciers and spring snow cover in the Northern hemisphere.

 

[Cliffy]

All anybody has to look at is the steady receding glaciers all over the planet. There are a lot of glaciers in the Kootenays and all are verging on extinction. The New Denver Glacier is about 10% of what it was in the thirties. The Columbia Ice Fields are about 25% of what they were twenty five years ago. Europeans want to build ski resorts on our glaciers because Switzerland has almost no glaciers left for year round skiing. Thirty years ago the Arrow Lakes froze over in the winter, now they don't. The annual average rain fall in BC has declined considerably. We used to live in an inland temperate rain forest here, but pretty soon we will not be.

 

[gopher]

So why are there so many people in denial?

 

[AnnaG]

So why are there so many people in denial?

Ignorance and faith that scientists haven't a clue what they're talking about. lol.

 

[gopher]

Oh I see: in other words, these deniers, somehow, are more knowledgeable in science than are climatologists.

 

[AnnaG]

Oh I see: in other words, these deniers, somehow, are more knowledgeable in science than are climatologists.

Well, according to them they are. lol

 

[gopher]

As with every other issue on this and other forums: the right wingers make all sorts of claims, but to this day they haven't proven a damn thing.

 

[coldstream]

I was wondering how long it would take for the AGW forces to reassemble themselves after all of the bad press they have received..the failure of their predictions, cold weather, advancing polar ice sheets had reduced their credibility to almost zero.

The answer is not long. They've managed to selectively re-sort the data to support their case. They had no other choice, their reputations, grants, tenure, careers all depended on it.

What's more there is now big money behind it, specifically in the fortunes to be made in trading carbon credits, holding industrial countries to ransom for a completely gratuitous trading system that corresponds completely to the Free Trade, Monetarist Global trading regime.

The dollars to be made here are a thousand fold that of any supposed conspiracy of oil companies to protect their oil franchise. The paradigm stands to make billions for a few, Al Gore amongst them, and put billions of people into the poorhouse for a non existent threat.

It's no surprise this was strategically released in the middle of a summer heat wave, when all memory of the unusually cold winters we have been having have been lost to memory.

That of course, doesn't change the truth.. that Anthropocentric Gobal Warming is a sinister and collosal fraud.. perpetrated by what can best be desrcribed as a Psuedo Scientific Cult, in support of a viciously anti human ideology.

Its marketing gimmick is of pure sentiment, to the goddess idol mother earth. It is a belief system which it puts it beyond objective and empirical circumscription and is accepted on the basis of faith. It is a great peril to people of the world, especially the poor.

 

[L Gilbert]

I was wondering how long it would take for the AGW forces to reassemble themselves after all of the bad press they have received..the failure of their predictions, cold weather, advancing polar ice sheets had reduced their credibility to almost zero.

Bad press? Irrelevant.
Predictions? Also irrelevant.
Cold weather? In the odd region, perhaps, the average global temperature is still rising, though.
Advancing polar ice sheets? Your data is old. Antarctic is the only one that seems to be holding its own. Canadian, Russian, and Greenland ice is receding. Greenland's even starting to become more buoyant.

The answer is not long. They've managed to selectively re-sort the data to support their case. They had no other choice, their reputations, grants, tenure, careers all depended on it.

And after several independent reviews, the results have shown that climatologists have not seriously changed much of anything.

What's more there is now big money behind it, specifically in the fortunes to be made in trading carbon credits, holding industrial countries to ransom for a completely gratuitous trading system that corresponds completely to the Free Trade, Monetarist Global trading regime. The dollars to be made here are a thousand fold that of any supposed conspiracy of oil companies to protect their oil franchise. The paradigm stands to make billions for a few, Al Gore amongst them, and put billions of people into the poorhouse for a non existent threat.

Sorry? Did I read that correctly? There hasn't been billions derived from oil? There hasn't been as much propagandising and lobbying for oil interests? Last I saw, a large fraction of the world's economy hinges directly upon oil. Hardly dick on your carbon credit trade.

It's no surprise this was strategically released in the middle of a summer heat wave, when all memory of the unusually cold winters we have been having have been lost to memory.

What cold winters? Who's "we"? BC 30 years ago had loads more snow than we get now. The permafrost isn't even "perma" anymore. Earlier breakups of Arctic ice and later freezes says what to you? Colder climate?

That of course, doesn't change the truth..

Truth? Apparently you wouldn't know truth if it flapped its way off a building sat on your head and shat like a pigeon on a statue.

that Anthropocentric Gobal Warming is a sinister and collosal fraud..

only if you ignore the evidence.

perpetrated by what can best be desrcribed as a Psuedo Scientific Cult, in support of a viciously anti human ideology.

and sniveled about by a small group of immensely ignorant and largely irrelevant, irrational deniers.

It marketing gimmick is of pure sentiment, to the goddess idol mother earth. It is a great peril to people of the world, especially the poor.

Crock. It may be a marketing gimmick but all it will do is change the economy from oil based to climate based. People will still make money, companies will form, companies will fall, people will work, etc.

 

[gopher]

''all of the bad press they have received..''

they haven't - it's been the other way around

... even Bush is on the side of those who say there is global warming

 

[Tonington]

Coldstream's response is the perfect example of how the AGW denial scam works. If you repeat a concise talking point often enough, others will repeat it as truth no matter what the objective truth really is. This is called the big lie, and it is a staple of all forms of denial.

 

[coldstream]

''all of the bad press they have received..''

they haven't - it's been the other way around

... even Bush is on the side of those who say there is global warming

George Bush is a running dog.. well poodle anyway.. of the Free Trade oligarchs. He's been given his marching orders.

By controlling carbon credits, and they will try to corner the market and control the world's productive capacity, if given the opportunity, they will squeeze the world with artificial shortages, especially of food... they work on desperation.

They are quite mad, of course with power lust.. but as we all know insanity is no impediment to power in the short term. Tyrants die miserable deaths.. but not before they lay waste to the world.

And all for a bunch for a conjured up smoke and mirrors masquerading as science. The ice fields are advancing in Antarctica. South America is experiencing the coldest winter in decades.

The AGW search the world for anecdotes of temporary warming, and finding them increasingly hard to come by.. to obscure the fact that the world seems to be entering a periodic cooling phase which could last decades.. or it could last centuries.. all independent of carbon.

 

[Tonington]

the world seems to be entering a periodic cooling phase which could last decades.

Oh yes? Which indicators make that seem likely?

 

[petros]

Tonnington. you should take a really really indepth look into the founding fathers of the Green movement and their religious beliefs sometime. Start with Maurice Strong.

 

[captain morgan]

Look into their investments while you're at it

 

[Tonington]

Tonnington. you should take a really really indepth look into the founding fathers of the Green movement and their religious beliefs sometime. Start with Maurice Strong.

Why? I'm interested in helping to make the world a better place than that I inherited from your generation, so that my children won't have to be the ones to make the really tough decisions that someone should have made long before their time. And religious belief has nothing to do with it. Yeah, I get cracks from deniers all the time about the religious aspects of environmentalism, and I see that stuff all the time too. But ironically I see it from the self-styled skeptics as well, who are anything but. I'm not interested in building bridges with extremists. They are extreme because they are on the edge. Most people can rationalize things better than the extremists, so that's the kind of people I'm interested in.

So as to the founding fathers(and mothers), what does their belief have to do with the empirical case for an enhanced greenhouse? What does their belief have to do with threatened eco-systems?

And as to Captain Morgan, I have no problem with people making money on their investments. I have a problem with people who wish to keep an aspect of their business off the balance sheet, and expect society to pick up the tab. Externalities of this kind are generally viewed as a negative by economists. I actually embrace market based policies to correct such transaction spillovers. Curiously, conservatives in North America by and large do not.

 

[captain morgan]

So as to the founding fathers(and mothers), what does their belief have to do with the empirical case for an enhanced greenhouse?

I have yet to see anything that is empirical and capable of conclusively tying everything together.

And as to Captain Morgan, I have no problem with people making money on their investments.

The suggestion I believe that Petros made refers to a serious conflict of interest with the aforementioned individual. Further, as Eaglesmack has correctly pointed-out, the current green technologies are not capable of sustaining themselves practically or financially.

Add these 2 together and I expect that you can imagine the manner in which some folks will "make a return on their investment".

I have a problem with people who wish to keep an aspect of their business off the balance sheet, and expect society to pick up the tab.

Fair enough... Got an example we can discuss?