AGW Denial, The Greatest Scam in History?

L Gilbert

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Thus, generally speaking, persons who subscribe to individualistic values tend to dismiss claims of environmental risks, because acceptance of such claims implies the need to regulate markets, commerce and other outlets for individual strivings.” In simpler words, too many of us treat science as subjective — something we customize to reduce cognitive dissonance between what we think and how we live.
Uh, yeah, right on the nail.
 

Tonington

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Yeah, that line about cognitive dissonance is gold!

The National Post is under new management now. Maybe we'll see more open and frank discussions from them, rather than the typified dissonance blather that comes from Corcoran, Solomon, Gunther, and Foster.
 

L Gilbert

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Yeah, that line about cognitive dissonance is gold!

The National Post is under new management now. Maybe we'll see more open and frank discussions from them, rather than the typified dissonance blather that comes from Corcoran, Solomon, Gunther, and Foster.
We can only hope. I'll wait till I pass judgement upon whether the NP is to become news or remain entertainment.
 

Tonington

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Yep, time will tell. There's still a lack of science journalists, even though all media comment on science issues. That's the most disappointing of all, and it's doubtful that it will change.
 

L Gilbert

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Yep, time will tell. There's still a lack of science journalists, even though all media comment on science issues. That's the most disappointing of all, and it's doubtful that it will change.
A lack? I hadn't noticed, Ton. lol
We are subscribed to digital versions of SciAm, New Scientist, Science, Nature, have memberships in a few specialised, online, journal publishing sites, and hard copy NatGeo.

List of scientific journals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Tonington

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Oh I get my science news from the science press too, but for most people they only get exposed to the big stories that make it to popular print or television news. Like the Venter lab and their "synthetic life" that was blown out of proportion by reporters who didn't understand. It's lamentable that the mainstream coverage of science news is such poor quality. It's not for a lack of good writers either...
 

mentalfloss

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I've been reading the Skeptical Inquirer lately and while I have my reservations, it's pretty good too.
 

Tonington

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Yep, they write some good stuff too. I think if you're a skeptic, you should have reservations. Even the primary literature, the investigations in journals can be wrong.
 

petros

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Well there's some middle ground where I agree with you. But I can swing that back to carbon dioxide too. The carbonate compensation depth is affected by the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide. When the bio-available aragonite (the form of calcium utilized by most calcifiers) lags behind the rate of dissolution, you lose shell building creatures in the ocean. If you kill the bottom dwellers then you also kill the closing loop for the nutrient cycle in the ocean. When those nutrients build up, they cause problems, just like the dead zones in the Gulf of Mexico.
I agree with the change in sea chemistry but there is something missing from the oceans that once were a major source of carbon uptake and balance.

Ever had the bends without a change in your environmental pressure?
 

Tonington

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The oceans still are a major uptake. The airborne fraction of our emitted carbon is ~45% if memory serves me. The other 55% is going primarilly into the ocean.

I measure the water at work all the time for the fish. Total gas pressure. If it gets too high (after there is a heavy rain, or if we have to much oxygen going into the water) then the compensation depth drops, and if the difference between atmospheric and water gets to great, eventually they run out of tank as a refuge from that elevated gas pressure. Then they get embolisms and die from the bends. Eye balls pop, gills pop, it's not a pretty sight, so I monitor that daily.
 

petros

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They are a major uptake indeed but incredible decrease in ocean life which fixed the carbons are no longer available.

How does ocean water chemistry react to nitrates and sulfur if you dumped in mass amounts?
 

Tonington

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Nitrate is lethal to fish. Dumping inorganic nitrogen will cause algal blooms, and deplete oxygen, killing fish. Sulphur doesn't dissolve in water, so it would end up in the sediment on the bottom, probably a resource for some bacteria.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
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If there is algae to bloom. The neat thing about nitrogen is when when combined with CaCo3Mg it's knocks the NaCl off and fixes it to the carbon freeing all the other halides from seawater modifying densities.

The denser the NaCl in water the more heat it traps right?


The amount of nitrates and halides coming down the pipe and into Gulf of Mexico and Hudson Bay is growing at alarming rates. Keep in mind Hudson bay is the Arctic Ocean and algae blooms aren't an issue.

Check out the stats on fertilizer use over the last 80 years not to mention ancient carbon from the soil washed down stream from mass agriculture.

For every stalk of wheat there is one 12mg granule of phosphates.

From this years flooding in Sask there is an extra 600,000,000lb in just phospahtes alone and doesn't include the potash and urea heading straighting for Lake Winnipeg and on to the Hudson Bay as we speak. Depending on the crop there would be 12mg of urea applied per plant as well.

Know of anyone looking to some dissertation research? This would be a good one.

The aquatic life in Assiniboine River, Sask River(s), Red River and Lake Winnipeg is being hit hard as we speak.

If August gets hot, fish kills will be a sure thing.
 
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Tonington

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If there is algae to bloom. The neat thing about nitrogen is when when combined with CaCo3Mg it's knocks the NaCl off and fixes it to the carbon freeing all the other halides from seawater modifying densities.

How's that? N + CaCo3Mg knocks the sodium chloride off what?

The denser the NaCl in water the more heat it traps right?

It doesn't matter the solute is, the more you add, the greater the heat capacity of the water will be.

There's quite a bit of literature on estuarine impacts from the emptying watersheds. The Gulf of Mexico is particularly well studied. The Mississippi fuels huge algae blooms.
 

petros

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How's that? N + CaCo3Mg knocks the sodium chloride off what?



It doesn't matter the solute is, the more you add, the greater the heat capacity of the water will be.

There's quite a bit of literature on estuarine impacts from the emptying watersheds. The Gulf of Mexico is particularly well studied. The Mississippi fuels huge algae blooms.
Check out how fertilizer is made sometime. You have to seperate the salts somehow.


Of course. The Mississippi and Missouri drains the agri heartland of the US and then passes through chemical alley. Of course the Gulf is dead.

Oh yeah. When you keep using fertilizer you get salt and alk build up and have to dump sulphur on your feilds which then scoops up the salts and limes and sends them down the streams and rivers and into the Gulf and Bay in the north.

Hooray for record corn crops to make ethanol?
 

Tonington

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No, I mean in your explanation, you said it knocks the sodium chloride off to be fixed by carbon (which carbon?), and that frees up other halides.

The sodium chloride in saltwater is in solution, so I don't understand what you mean by knocking it off. If it gets fixed to carbon, I don't see how that has anything to do with nitrogen. I'm unfamiliar with the reaction you're referring to, so maybe I'm missing some intermediates in the process...sounds complicated.

Boourns for record corn crops. Big Ag loves a big phat farm bill, and they love ethanol mandates in gasoline even more....
 

AnnaG

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It's fertilizer. And you are saying that it enters seawater and causes any NaCL in seawater to bond with carbon and that leaves chlorine, bromine, fluorine, or iodine to wander about freely? And?
 

petros

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It's fertilizer. And you are saying that it enters seawater and causes any NaCL in seawater to bond with carbon and that leaves chlorine, bromine, fluorine, or iodine to wander about freely? And?
Density and fresh water that doesn't mix and traps heat under that layer of freshwater raising overall temps.

You can run a turbine to make electricty using brine and freshwater ponds collecting solar energy.
 

gopher

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June Was Earth’s Warmest Month On Record

June Was Earth?s Warmest Month On Record - Science News - redOrbit

The U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) announced Thursday that last month was the hottest June ever recorded on Earth.
According to NOAA's National Climatic Data Center, the combined global land and ocean surface temperature data also showed that the January-June and April-June periods were the warmest on record, which go back as far as 1880.
The combined average for global land and ocean temperatures in June was 61.1 degrees Fahrenheit, which are 1.22 degrees Fahrenheit higher than the 20th century average of 59.9 degrees Fahrenheit.
According to NOAA, temperatures warmer than average spread throughout the globe in recent months, more dominantly in areas like Peru, the central and eastern U.S. and in eastern and western Asia.