AGW Denial, The Greatest Scam in History?
- Thread starter Avro
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No no no. I never said that's where the money goes. I know there are environmentalist that want it to go there. You asked how much does Europe give to underdeveloped nations and I said I didn't know.
Hopefully it will fail.
Getting a kick out of trying to twist words? I am surprised. For one with such knowledge on this subject I am surprised you find the need to go there.
I said I believe that it is a tool for environmentalist to transfer wealth. I alluded to the woman from the S. African Government who was throwing a tantrum when President Obama refused to simply sign a bill mandating the US to comply with THEIR emissions standards or pay. President Obama doesn't even have that power to agree to such a document. She went off on him and how he came in to discuss Climate Change and she said the discussion was done and he just need to sign the agreement. She further went off on his problems with China qualifying for funds in this agreement.
No but they were on the committee that drew up the agreement. Her tirade stands out because I heard her interview on NPR. There were quite a few who drew up the accord I am sure.
Didn't I already explain what I thought it was?
I never said the one group that believes something should be done is ambivalent. I believe they do care. I do believe there is a group, and they dominate the movement that does want to turn this into a shakedown. You're kidding yourself if you don't think they are out there.
Really? So what was this all about:
To which I asked how much so far has.
You're like a sheet twisting in the wind...
And the one place where there is a legislated price on carbon is the EU. Environmentalist Europeans, and they aren't sending their money away as a goal.
It's not a way to send money to under-developed countries. Which is what you've been basically saying.
Is it not what you've been saying?
It's not a way to send money to under-developed countries. Which is what you've been basically saying.
Is it not what you've been saying?
What I am saying is that a powerful political force in this movement has been all about hitting developed nations up for big money, mandating they pay carbon emissions taxes AND transfer the wealth to so called underdeveloped nations.
That pretty much summed up what was attempted in Copenhagen. Do you actually deny that?
Yes I do, because you use phrases like "all about". That is not what it is all about. For some people you need to wave a carrot in front of them before they agree.
The powerful political forces you talk about advocate aid to countries that have no money to mitigate effects that will be felt and are being felt there first. It stands to reason that those who helped contribute to the problem should pay their share of it.
If you include context like that, then I would be more agreeable. But you don't, you ignore that kind of context, or read sources that don't include it. One or the other.
I listened to them on the radio and leading up to Copenhagen and during Copenhagen it was all about getting hands on developed nations money. Before the deal fell apart, underdeveloped nations were arguing about who should get the most money. I wasn't listening to conservative radio it was NPR which is, if anything left of center. It was all about mandating developed nations pay.
And again, the thought of allowing coutries like China and India (and others) go on about their business, growth unchecked while western nations bear the burden was ridiculous. It's cowardly, but I know why they give China a pass. China would tell them to shove it...end of story. Obama had a big problem with the thought of China getting money to help their economy when the are in the best shape economically as anyone. That is when the Chinese delegate called Obama "very stupid". Obama was right.
The idea of simply giving nations who are really underdeveloped billions of dollars without any monitoring of what they do with it is ridiculous. It will be simply spent on whatever they want to spend it on.
The following is a prime example of science fantasy written by complete idiots. They have the power train backward. Don't bother to read it unless you like stupid articles written by nose pickers. DB
Scientists call for research on climate link to geological hazards | Environment | guardian.co.uk
Scientists call for research on climate link to geological hazards
Experts say suggestions that climate change could trigger more volcanoes and earthquakes are speculative, but there is enough evidence to take the threat seriously
Smoke and steam hang over the volcano under the Eyjafjallajokull glacier in Iceland. Volcanic ash drifting across the Atlantic forced the cancellation of flights in Britain and disrupted air traffic across Europe last week. Photograph: Jon Gustafsson/AP
Scientists today called for wide-ranging research into whether more volcanoes, earthquakes, landslides and tsunamis could be triggered by rising global temperatures under global warming.
Scientists call for research on climate link to geological hazards | Environment | guardian.co.uk
Scientists call for research on climate link to geological hazards
Experts say suggestions that climate change could trigger more volcanoes and earthquakes are speculative, but there is enough evidence to take the threat seriously
- David Adam, environment correspondent
Scientists today called for wide-ranging research into whether more volcanoes, earthquakes, landslides and tsunamis could be triggered by rising global temperatures under global warming.
They're retarded, what other proof do you need? Just short days ago they were convinced that their models were impecable.
Missing Heat Hides From Climate Scientist
Climate scientists have decided that as much as half of the heat energy, believed to have built up on Earth in recent years, is hiding somewhere it can not be found.
Missing Heat Hides From Climate Scientist
Climate scientists have decided that as much as half of the heat energy, believed to have built up on Earth in recent years, is hiding somewhere it can not be found.
CO2 causes global warming. CO2 is farts, lava rules. Molten rock by the hundreds of millions of tons spewing forth from every orifice on the planet, now that would be a machjo climate crisis of the human environment but it still would not present any threat at all to the planet which goes with the flow. haha Wasn't this foretold in revelations? Of course it was, because they had the old star charts and the histories of the alignment events. You'd think these perverted scientists could come up with a more competetive lie, unless of course you had been reading their stories for a while, in which case, you'd like me, have nothing but contempt for the bags of **** wind.
Heliophysics
Time History of Events and Macroscale Interactions During Substorms (THEMIS)
The five spinning THEMIS probes contain comprehensive packages of plasma and field instruments needed to determine the cause of geomagnetic substorms. In April of 2009, NASA’s fleet of THEMIS satellites detected vast electrical tornadoes about 40,000 miles above the night side of Earth. Gigantic energized twisters, the size of the earth or larger, channel electrically charged particles at speeds of more than a million miles per hour along the ionosphere's twisted magnetic field, where they power the auroras.
With all of these instruments active at the present time, and 8 more satellites designated as space weather observatories scheduled for launch in the next five years, the opportunities for Electric Universe theories to be supported will continue to increase.
Time History of Events and Macroscale Interactions During Substorms (THEMIS)
The five spinning THEMIS probes contain comprehensive packages of plasma and field instruments needed to determine the cause of geomagnetic substorms. In April of 2009, NASA’s fleet of THEMIS satellites detected vast electrical tornadoes about 40,000 miles above the night side of Earth. Gigantic energized twisters, the size of the earth or larger, channel electrically charged particles at speeds of more than a million miles per hour along the ionosphere's twisted magnetic field, where they power the auroras.
With all of these instruments active at the present time, and 8 more satellites designated as space weather observatories scheduled for launch in the next five years, the opportunities for Electric Universe theories to be supported will continue to increase.
How about saying that volcanoes and earthquakes will cause climate change, not might.
Scientists close in on mass killer of life on earth.
WASHINGTON — It was the greatest mass murder of all time — poison everywhere! billions slain! — but the killer or killers have never been positively identified.
An estimated 95 percent of all marine species and up to 85 percent of land creatures perished, according to Peter Ward, a paleobiologist at the University of Washington in Seattle.
Scientists call it "The Great Dying." Life took millions of years to recover.
Scientific sleuths, however, now think they're making progress toward pinning down what caused the extinction of most plants and animals on Earth some 251 million years ago.
The perpetrator wasn't an asteroid or comet, like the impact that wiped out the dinosaurs 65 million years ago and inspired movies such as "Deep Impact" and "Armageddon."
Instead, it was a cascade of events that began with a monstrous outpouring of hot, reeking lava in Siberia. Repeated floods of lava released massive amounts of carbon dioxide, which produced a runaway greenhouse effect, oxygen-starved oceans and a poisoned atmosphere.
Scientists close in on mass killer of life on earth | McClatchy
WASHINGTON — It was the greatest mass murder of all time — poison everywhere! billions slain! — but the killer or killers have never been positively identified.
An estimated 95 percent of all marine species and up to 85 percent of land creatures perished, according to Peter Ward, a paleobiologist at the University of Washington in Seattle.
Scientists call it "The Great Dying." Life took millions of years to recover.
Scientific sleuths, however, now think they're making progress toward pinning down what caused the extinction of most plants and animals on Earth some 251 million years ago.
The perpetrator wasn't an asteroid or comet, like the impact that wiped out the dinosaurs 65 million years ago and inspired movies such as "Deep Impact" and "Armageddon."
Instead, it was a cascade of events that began with a monstrous outpouring of hot, reeking lava in Siberia. Repeated floods of lava released massive amounts of carbon dioxide, which produced a runaway greenhouse effect, oxygen-starved oceans and a poisoned atmosphere.
Scientists close in on mass killer of life on earth | McClatchy
In the article CO2 is still being pushed as an initiator even after they've stated that it was precipitated by volcanic eruption. Runaway greenhouse effect is science fiction. Once the lava introduces enough heat you're not likely to care about the effects of CO2 and neither is anything else. And that scenario has happened many times and life survived every time.
Agreed, but not life as we new it, new things evolved to become a dominant species. We will be gone or flying around in space somewhere.
From the you can't make this stuff up department, scientist Roy Spencer:
Ummm, Earth to Spencer, good science doesn't go out of date, at least not easily. Medicinal leeches are witnessing a resurgence, after 4000 years of sustained use in medicine. They have made mechanical analogs, but they aren't commercially available yet.
Unbelievable.
Ummm, Earth to Spencer, good science doesn't go out of date, at least not easily. Medicinal leeches are witnessing a resurgence, after 4000 years of sustained use in medicine. They have made mechanical analogs, but they aren't commercially available yet.
Unbelievable.
Tim (C-A-B-A-L) Ball: Climate Science is All a Conspiracy!
A two-hour, 32-minute audio tape of a Tim Ball lecture (finally available here) features one of Canada's most compromised climate change deniers (see especially here, here or here) making sweeping and silly pronouncements, getting caught out in misrepresenting data and, finally, attributing all climate science to a socialist plot by an aging Canadian businessman and United Nations supporter.
The audio, recorded April 7, 2010 at a meeting of the University of Victoria Young Conservatives Club, is crackly and begins badly (most people will want to start around the nine minute mark). It starts with Ball going on at length about his bona fides as an environmentalist and touting his life-time total of "peer-reviewed" publications at 23. (This, presumably, would include the four [4] publications listed on the ISI Web of science and 19 others that were, perhaps, checked over by Christopher Walter, the Third Viscount Monckton of Brenchley, before being typed up for printing in a journal, website or daily paper not generally read among diligent academics.)
Dr. Ball falls into his usual truthiness with comments like this (at around the 34:00 minute mark):
"These guys (the scientists of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) can’t tell you the weather 10 days from now but they’re telling you what it’s going to be like 100 years from now. How does that work? They try to argue that one is climate and one is weather, well I’m sorry climate is made up of weather, climate is the average of the weather. If you can’t get the weather right the climate isn’t going to be right."
... after which, he adds, in reference to the science contributors to the IPCC process, "They’ve been wrong on every single projection they have made since they brought out their first report in 1992."
Every single projection: can you imagine?
At around 1:02, Ball gets caught cooking his data, at first extrapolating ice core data from Greenland to argue that the world is cooling and then admitting that such a sweeping contention is unsupportable on this dataset. He says:
"Ice core from Greenland that shows you the variation in temperature over the last 10,000 years. … Here’s the current temperature over here and what you see is that for most of the last 10,000 years the world has been warmer than it is at the present. You could in fact argue that the world has cooled down for the last 3,000 years."
Student: "Is this a representative: does that say everything about the whole world?"
Ball: "That's a good question ... All you can say is that it is representative of Greenland and possibly the northern hemisphere. You really shouldn’t extrapolate this beyond the northern hemisphere."
Oops.
A geographer with no background in atmospheric physics, Dr. Ball has nevertheless distinguished himself as, at the very least, an avid hobbyist - as someone who has read enough about climate science to have begun to understand the overwhelming case for concern about anthropogenic warming. If you're looking for an explanation as to why he is not convinced, however, he's happy to explain..
First, he puts up a slide with a quote attributed to the one-time Petro-Canada CEO and longtime United Nations supporter Maurice Strong: “Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?”
(I have no idea as to the authenticity or this quote. It's all over the internet, but I have never seen it in context.)
At 1:11:00, Ball goes on to proclaim that Strong is the single-minded, single-handed leader of a world-wide scientific conspiracy. Ball says of Strong:
"He set up the United Nations Environment Program, out of which came the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and the whole idea of climate as a vehicle for shutting down industrialization."
A couple of minutes later, at 1:14:46, a student challenges:
"So we have a lot of climate scientists graduating from UVic, so I’m just wondering at what point somebody comes up to you and says here’s your indoctrination to destroy all the industrialized countries in the world through promoting climate change. It seems a little crazy. That just sounds more like a conspiracy theory to me."
Ball: "Yes, of course, I have always been accused of being a conspiracy theorist. I prefer to call it a cabal. C-A-B-A-L: it’s a group of people who have a particular political agenda ... and they use a vehicle to achieve that. That’s certainly what’s gone on with the IPCC."
So, there you go: the entire world climate science community is populated by patsies who have been recruited by an 80-year-old former oil executive with a secret plan to shatter civilization. That explains everything, then, doesn't it?
A two-hour, 32-minute audio tape of a Tim Ball lecture (finally available here) features one of Canada's most compromised climate change deniers (see especially here, here or here) making sweeping and silly pronouncements, getting caught out in misrepresenting data and, finally, attributing all climate science to a socialist plot by an aging Canadian businessman and United Nations supporter.
The audio, recorded April 7, 2010 at a meeting of the University of Victoria Young Conservatives Club, is crackly and begins badly (most people will want to start around the nine minute mark). It starts with Ball going on at length about his bona fides as an environmentalist and touting his life-time total of "peer-reviewed" publications at 23. (This, presumably, would include the four [4] publications listed on the ISI Web of science and 19 others that were, perhaps, checked over by Christopher Walter, the Third Viscount Monckton of Brenchley, before being typed up for printing in a journal, website or daily paper not generally read among diligent academics.)
Dr. Ball falls into his usual truthiness with comments like this (at around the 34:00 minute mark):
"These guys (the scientists of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) can’t tell you the weather 10 days from now but they’re telling you what it’s going to be like 100 years from now. How does that work? They try to argue that one is climate and one is weather, well I’m sorry climate is made up of weather, climate is the average of the weather. If you can’t get the weather right the climate isn’t going to be right."
... after which, he adds, in reference to the science contributors to the IPCC process, "They’ve been wrong on every single projection they have made since they brought out their first report in 1992."
Every single projection: can you imagine?
At around 1:02, Ball gets caught cooking his data, at first extrapolating ice core data from Greenland to argue that the world is cooling and then admitting that such a sweeping contention is unsupportable on this dataset. He says:
"Ice core from Greenland that shows you the variation in temperature over the last 10,000 years. … Here’s the current temperature over here and what you see is that for most of the last 10,000 years the world has been warmer than it is at the present. You could in fact argue that the world has cooled down for the last 3,000 years."
Student: "Is this a representative: does that say everything about the whole world?"
Ball: "That's a good question ... All you can say is that it is representative of Greenland and possibly the northern hemisphere. You really shouldn’t extrapolate this beyond the northern hemisphere."
Oops.
A geographer with no background in atmospheric physics, Dr. Ball has nevertheless distinguished himself as, at the very least, an avid hobbyist - as someone who has read enough about climate science to have begun to understand the overwhelming case for concern about anthropogenic warming. If you're looking for an explanation as to why he is not convinced, however, he's happy to explain..
First, he puts up a slide with a quote attributed to the one-time Petro-Canada CEO and longtime United Nations supporter Maurice Strong: “Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?”
(I have no idea as to the authenticity or this quote. It's all over the internet, but I have never seen it in context.)
At 1:11:00, Ball goes on to proclaim that Strong is the single-minded, single-handed leader of a world-wide scientific conspiracy. Ball says of Strong:
"He set up the United Nations Environment Program, out of which came the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and the whole idea of climate as a vehicle for shutting down industrialization."
A couple of minutes later, at 1:14:46, a student challenges:
"So we have a lot of climate scientists graduating from UVic, so I’m just wondering at what point somebody comes up to you and says here’s your indoctrination to destroy all the industrialized countries in the world through promoting climate change. It seems a little crazy. That just sounds more like a conspiracy theory to me."
Ball: "Yes, of course, I have always been accused of being a conspiracy theorist. I prefer to call it a cabal. C-A-B-A-L: it’s a group of people who have a particular political agenda ... and they use a vehicle to achieve that. That’s certainly what’s gone on with the IPCC."
So, there you go: the entire world climate science community is populated by patsies who have been recruited by an 80-year-old former oil executive with a secret plan to shatter civilization. That explains everything, then, doesn't it?