A Harper majority would harm Canada and the world.

[earth_as_one]

You are so wrong.

from your own link :

Now I'm gonna tell you why you are wrong: one simple fact: the conservatives want to get elected again.....and again.......and again. Bringing in policies supported by only 20% of the people is political suicide.

As for abortion, so what if Harper allows a private member's bill, and a free vote?.....as it would have to be......do you have a problem with democracy? And it would lose, and Harper is a political strategist........he would not want it to pass, too divisive, too dangerous........BTW, did you know we are the only western nation without an abortion law?

As for gay marriage, Harper said it already...."The debate is over". And, even when it was hot, Harper supported civil unions....marriage in all but name. hardly "gay hating".

These are beginning to look less and less like simple political delusions on your part, and more and more like deliberate falsifications. That is not acceptable, EAO.

BTW, a major part of the world thought Iraq had WMD, as Saddam had used them, and was in violation of the truce he signed after the first Gulf War........something you guys conviniently forget. And, I don't really give a damn if he had them or not....Death to Tyrants!

Delusional? That's an interesting word choice coming from you.

You still believe the US declared war on Iraq to stop genocide. Would you like me to quote you? Its a fact that Iraq was peaceful for years before the US led invasion.

I'm not the one who still believes the majority of the world bought US justifications for its war with Iraq. Its a fact that the majority of nations at the UN supported allowing UN weapon inspectors more time to finish their work and denounced the US decision to invade Iraq while weapon inspections were ongoing. The neocons manufactured a perception that Iraq was a threat requiring immediate action and supported by the world. Few people outside of North American had that manufactured perception. Anyone following the international news at the time would have known that.

The only way the US could legally use military force against Iraq was if they were attacked (they weren't), if an attack was threatened (it wasn't) or if they had a resolution from the UNSC clearly authorizing it (they didn't). The majority of nations at the UN denounced US actions against Iraq. Most nations described the invasion as illegal and/or a war crime. We can start another debate on that if you like C.

So who has a proven record of being delusional here C?

Need I point out to you that politicians often say one thing during an election campaign and then do another once they have power? To know where Harper would lead this country, its not enough to listen to his campaign rhetoric, Canadians must also examine his actions.

Harper's actions indicates he supports the death penalty. Harper conservatives have decided its no longer Canadian government policy to automatically appeal death sentences of Canadians. The death penalty isn't the type of issue where someone can support it in the US and but not support it in Canada. Of course Harper is not going to campaign on the death penalty. That would be political suicide. But once Harper neocons have a majority, thay can pass any legislation they want, even if no Canadians support it. Sure most Canadians would be angry, but people have short memories. By the time the next election rolls around, Canadians will be more concerned about other things, such as a war with Iran which is coming as surely as winter.

The debate regarding same sex marriage and gay rights was over... for that session of Parliament. Harper knew he couldn't impose his will with a minority government, so he shelved it. But we all know where Harper stands regarding gay rights. Read his homophobic speeches. If we give Harper a majority, his past actions indicate he will revoke same sex marriage and gay rights. By the time the next election rolls around, gays may be fighting just to legalize homosexuality.

Give Harper conservatives a majority and we will see a free vote on the abortion. Some conservatives will vote against it, but more than enough Liberals will vote for it that it will pass. Harper may be intolerant and cruel, but he isn't stupid. Canadians should be aware that voting for Harper is about the equivalent of voting in favor of criminalizing abortion.

A neocon Harper majority would be harmful to Canada and the world. Most Americans now regret electing the Bush neocons. Canadians don't have to make the same mistake.

C, you say "Death to the Tyrants". Why is it you would like to give one absolute control?

 

[Colpy]

Delusional? I'm not the one here with a record of being delusional C.

You still believe the US declared war on Iraq to stop genocide. Would you like me to quote you? Its a fact that Iraq was peaceful for years before the US led invasion.

I'm not the one who still believes the majority of the world bought US justifications for its war with Iraq. Its a fact that the majority of nations at the UN supported allowing UN weapon inspectors more time to finish their work and denounced the US decision to invade Iraq while weapon inspections were ongoing. The neocons manufactured a perception that Iraq was a threat requiring immediate action and supported by the world. Few people outside of North American had that manufactured perception. Anyone following the international news at the time would have known that.

The only way the US could legally use military force against Iraq was if they were attacked (they weren't), if an attack was threatened (it wasn't) or if they had a resolution from the UNSC clearly authorizing it (they didn't). The majority of nations at the UN denounced US actions against Iraq. Most nations described the invasion as illegal and/or a war crime. We can start another debate on that if you like C.

So who has a proven record of being delusional here C?

Need I point out to you that politicians often say one thing during an election campaign and then do another once they have power? To know where Harper would lead this country, its not enough to listen to his campaign rhetoric, Canadians must also examine his actions.

Harper's actions indicates he supports the death penalty. Harper conservatives have decided its no longer Canadian government policy to automatically appeal death sentences of Canadians. The death penalty isn't the type of issue where Harper supports in the US and but doesn't support it in Canada. Of course Harper is not going to campaign on the death penalty. That would be political suicide. But once Harper neocons have a majority, thay can pass any legislation they want, even if no Canadians support it. Sure most Canadians would be angry, but people have short memories. By the time the next election rolls around, Canadians will be more concerned about other things, such as a war with Iran which is coming as surely as winter.

The debate regarding same sex marriage and gay rights was over... for that session of Parliament. Harper knew he couldn't impose his will with a minority government, so he shelved it. But we all know where Harper stands regarding gay rights. Read his homophobic speeches. If we give Harper a majority, his past actions indicate he will revoke same sex marriage and gay rights. By the time the next election rolls around, gays may be fighting just to legalize homosexuality.

Give Harper conservatives a majority and we will see a free vote on the abortion. Some conservatives will vote against it, but more than enough Liberals will vote for it that it will pass. Harper may be intolerant and cruel, but he isn't stupid. Canadians should be aware that voting for Harper is about the equivalent of voting in favor of criminalizing abortion.

A neocon Harper majority would be harmful to Canada and the world. Most Americans now regret electing the Bush neocons. Canadians don't have to make the same mistake.

C, you say "Death to the Tyrants". Why is it you would like to give one absolute control?

No, I believe the USA attacked Iraq because Saddam was a looney that would not obey the truce he agreed to, and he was a constant threat in a very strategic part of the world.......and nobody gives a damn about international law. Full stop.

We will no longer automatically appeal death penalty cases in the USA.....which is a country that follows the ideals of English Common Law, with a presumption of innocence and jury trials........same as us. I sdee no reason for us to automatically leap to the defense of a triple murderer.....as the last case involves. I do not support the return of the death penalty as we had it, too much of a chance of error. However, each case of a Canadian tried in the USA should be treated individually.....if there is doubt, intervene, if not......it is not our business.

Abortion legislation is NOT on the Conservative platform.........and any Private Members bill that illegalized early-term abortion would be doomed to failure.....simple as that.

Foolishness.

Show me one single line out of a Harper speech that is homophobic. Quote it, give me a link......

Just one. And I'll STFU.

You can't, can you?

Just one.

 

[ottawabill]

Oh but Colpy..you need to remember the abortion is part of the grand scheme hidden agenda to be unleashed at the innocents once there is a Harper Majority..muwah hahaha!!

I totally agree on the capital punishment issue. If a Canadain goes to Texas and kills 3 people he is bound by the laws of Texas, not Canada. If he wanted to be bound by Canadian laws he needs to kill 3 in Canada, same with any one crossing into Canada to escape U.S. law, they should be sent back that day! The U.S. justice system is fair and basically the same system as us, nothing I see that we need to protect anyone from.

 

[lone wolf]

Ontario doesn't matter? Ontario is 97 seats. Harper's realism meter is going a bit wonky. Ontario is the last place tp start an industry? Who would know better than the people who brought you the Common Sense Revolution?

 

[earth_as_one]

Harper regarding homosexuality:

September 9, 2003, debate in Parliament on Alliance motion to “take all necessary steps” to maintain an opposite-sex definition of marriage.

...opponents of traditional marriage... have chosen to make change without social consensus and, in doing so, they have articulated a position which I believe is wrong in law, universally insulting, very dangerous as far as real rights are concerned and, of course, has been done so in a highly undemocratic manner.

“First, this is wrong in law. Sexual orientation or, more accurately, what we are really talking about, sexual behaviour, the argument has been made by proponents of this position that this is analogous to race and ethnicity. This position was not included in the Charter of Rights when it was passed by Parliament in 1982. It was not included, not because of some kind of accident or oversight, but deliberately and explicitly by all sides of the House of Commons.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/2/parlbus/chambus/house/debates/120_2003-09-16/han120_1010-E.htm

Clearly Harper believes the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not protect homosexuals from discrimination. His viewpoint opens the door for legislation which would deny homosexuals the same rights and freedoms enjoyed by other Canadians beside marriage. Those other areas could include child custody, survivor benefits, employment, housing...

 

[earth_as_one]

Oh but Colpy..you need to remember the abortion is part of the grand scheme hidden agenda to be unleashed at the innocents once there is a Harper Majority..muwah hahaha!!

I totally agree on the capital punishment issue. If a Canadain goes to Texas and kills 3 people he is bound by the laws of Texas, not Canada. If he wanted to be bound by Canadian laws he needs to kill 3 in Canada, same with any one crossing into Canada to escape U.S. law, they should be sent back that day! The U.S. justice system is fair and basically the same system as us, nothing I see that we need to protect anyone from.

The point is whether Harper neocons favors capital punishment. Changing Canadian government policy not to appeal the death sentence of Canadians abroad indicates where Harper neocons stand on this issue.

 

[earth_as_one]

No, I believe the USA attacked Iraq because Saddam was a looney that would not obey the truce he agreed to, and he was a constant threat in a very strategic part of the world.......and nobody gives a damn about international law. Full stop...

Countries which ignore international law like the US are known as rogue nations. You may be fine with Canada joining the US as a rogue nation, but I'm not.

US claims about Iraq not complying with the truce had to do with them not coming forward and disclosing their stockpiles of WMDS and failure to cooperate with UN weapon inspectors.

At the time of the invasion, the Chief UN weapon inspector described Iraq as actively and proactively cooperating with UN weapon inspectors and that Iraq had given them access to any location or person. Perhaps you could explain how Iraq could disclose the location of their non-existant WMD stockpiles.

Colpy you bought a pack of lies back then and all these years later you are still in denial.

 

[Walter]

Its a fact that Iraq was peaceful for years before the US led invasion.

1968
The Baath Party power returns to power after a coup in July. It creates a state apparatus systematically dominated by the Baath party that enables it to remain in power for at least the next thirty years.
The Baath militia, the National Guard, crack down on demonstrations and strikes. In November, two strikers are shot dead at a vegetable oil factory near Baghdad, and three are killed on a demonstration to commemorate the Russian Revolution.
1969
The regime begins rounding up suspected communists. The guerrilla movement is defeated, with many of its members tortured to death. Aziz al-Hajj betrays them by recanting on television, subsequently becoming Iraqi ambassador to France.
The air force bombs Kurdish areas, but the military stalemate remains until the following year when Saddam Hussein negotiates an agreement with the Kurdish Democratic Party. In exchange for limited autonomy, the KDP leadership agrees to integrate its peshmerga fighters into the Iraqi army.
1974
War breaks out again in Kurdistan as the agreement with the KDP breaks down. The KDP is deprived of its traditional allies in the CP and the Soviet Union, now supporting the Baath. Instead it seeks and receives aid from the USA and the Shah of Iran. The Baathists launch napalm attacks on the Kurdish towns of Halabja and Kalalze.
1975
The Iraqi military continues bombing civilian areas in Kurdistan, killing 130 at Qala'Duza, 43 in Halabja and 29 in Galala in April.
Iraq negotiates an agreement with Iran, withdrawing help from Iranian Kurds and other anti-Shah forces in return for Iran stopping support to the Iraqi KDP. Iran takes back the military equipment it had given to the KDP, leaving the field open for the Iraqi army to conquer Kurdistan
1978
Wholesale arrests of ICP members it criticises the regime. Twelve are executed for political activity in the army. All non-Baathist political activity in the army (such as reading a political newspaper), or by former members of the armed forces is banned under sentence of death. With universal conscription, this means that all adult males are threatened with death for political activity.
1980
War breaks out between Iraq and the new Iranian regime lead by Ayatollah Khomeni. The conflict centres on border disputes and the prospect of the Islamic revolution spreading to Iraq. Iran shells the Iraqi cities of Khanaqin and Mandali; Iraq launches a bombing mission over Tehran.
1982
Popular anti-government uprising in Kurdish areas. The government decrees that deserters from the army (anyone who has gone absent without leave for more than five days) will be executed.
In the southern marsh regions, the Iraqi army launches a massive military operation with the help of heavy artillery, missiles and aircraft to flush out the thousands of deserters and their supporters in the area. Rebels do not only run away from the war, but organise sabotage actions such as blowing up an arsenal near the town of Amara. In the village of Douru armed inhabitants resist the police to prevent house-to-house searches for deserters. At Kasem in the same area armed rebels clash with the military. Villages supporting the rebels are destroyed and their inhabitants massacred.
1985
Start of the "War of the Cities" with Iran and Iraq firing missiles at each other's capitals.
1987
In May there is an uprising in the Kurdish town of Halabja led by the many deserters from the army living in the town. According to one eye witness "the governmental forces were toppled. The people had taken over and the police and army had to go into hiding, only being able to move around in tanks and armoured divisions". Hundreds of people are killed when the rebellion is crushed.
1988
Armed deserters take over the town of Sirwan (near Halabja). The Iraqi air force destroys the town with bombs and rockets. Halabja is bombed by Iran, and then on 13 March the Iraqi government attacks the town with chemical weapons killing at least 5,000 civilians. Poor people attempting to flee the town for Iran before the massacre are stopped from doing so by Kurdish nationalist peshmerga. Throughout this period of insurgency there is widespread suspicion of the Kurdish nationalist parties because of their history of collaboration with the state and their lack of support for working class revolts.
In August Iran and Iraq agree a ceasefire bringing to an end the first Gulf War.
1990
In July Iraq invades Kuwait.
In February and March, popular uprisings against the Iraqi government spread across the country. It starts at Basra in southern Iraq, where the spark is rebels using a tank to fire at the huge pictures of Saddam Hussein in the city. Inspired by rebellion in the south, people in Kurdish areas join in. Police stations, army bases and other government buildings are wrecked and torched. Shops are looted. Food warehouses are occupied and the food distributed. In Sulliemania in the north, rebels smash up the prison and set all the prisoners free and then storm the secret police HQ where many have been tortured and killed. Baathist officials and secret police are shot. In some areas, self-organised workers' councils (shoras) are set up to run things. They set up their own radio stations, medical posts (to collect blood donations for the hospital), and militia to resist government forces.
In Baghdad itself, there are mass desertions from the main barracks during the war, with officers who try to stop them being shot. Two areas of the city, Al Sourah and Al Sho'ela fall into the effective control of deserters and their supporters.
After a brutal repression of the rebellion in the South, Government forces focus on Kurdistan. They reoccupy Sulliemania in April, but the city is deserted with almost all the inhabitants having fled to the mountains.
The Western media present the uprisings as the work of Kurdish nationalists in the north and Shiite Muslims in the south, but they are in fact mass revolts of the poor. In fact the main Kurdish nationalist parties (the KDP and the PUK) oppose radical aspects of the uprisings and try to destroy the shora movement. True to form they announce a new negotiated agreement with Saddam Hussein soon after the uprisings are crushed.

1998
On October 1, Iraqi authorities under the command of Gen. Sabah Farhan al-Duri execute 119 Iraqis and three Egyptians in Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad. Twenty-nine of those killed are members of the armed forces, and fifty had been imprisoned for their participation in the March 1991 uprisings that followed the Gulf War. This mass execution is apparently a continuation of the "prison-cleansing" campaign launched by the government a year earlier which saw an estimated 2500 prisoners executed.

1999
In March Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Sadiq-al Sadr, the most senior Shi'ite religious leader in Iraq, is killed, with the suspicion falling on government agents. A major uprising in Basra is suppressed with hundreds of deaths, many killed in mass executions.

 

[lone wolf]

When did any of this happen on the United Stares? A 700 billion dollar headache may just teach Uncle Sam that minding one's own business is good business.

 

[Avro]

It still amazes me their are idiot cons who still think Iraq was a good thing.

Let's remind them, shall we.

No wmd's.....none.

No links to Al quaeda....none.

No threat to the U.S. or Europe.....none.

Also by invading the U.S. broke international law, killed thousands and thousands of Innocent Iraqis, killed over four thousand of it's own troops while maiming another 20 thousand.....remember, for nothing.

They had no plan for post war and the war itself was handled poorly....."mission accomplished."

They also, by invading Iraq have helped along the process of bankrupting themselves....remember, for nothing.

Nearly six years later they are still there when many officials including McCain said it would take a few months of course now McCain is thinking of staying a 100 years.....I doubt they will have the money for that little venture.

The U.S, has weakened itself internationally as we saw just recently with Russia's action in Georgia and increased the amount of terror around the globe. What if they needed to attack someone else right now.....they'd be ****ed.

Not to mention that you removed the one guy that had Iraq under control despite the fact he was a SOB.:roll:

I thought the American way was do it yourself, well, if the people of Iraq wanted free from Saddam so bad they should have done it on their own.


.....so you guys still think it was a good idea?

IDIOTS!:lol:

You are not cons at all, you are actually more liberal and you don't even know it.:lol:

 

[darkbeaver]

They are not liberal either. they are common idiots who should be tarred and feathered and driven out of thier respective villages after thier state funded vasectomies and labotomys. They could be bused to the border and driven accross in an orderly manner to enjoy the land of milk an honey as they obviously want.

 

[Colpy]

Harper regarding homosexuality:



Clearly Harper believes the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not protect homosexuals from discrimination. His viewpoint opens the door for legislation which would deny homosexuals the same rights and freedoms enjoyed by other Canadians beside marriage. Those other areas could include child custody, survivor benefits, employment, housing...

And he is correct. Whether you like it or not, gay rights were purposely left out of the Charter. Saying so is hardly homophobic. You'll have to do better than that.

 

[Colpy]

It is not at all surprising that Stephen Harper would say that 'Ontario is the last place to start an industry..' [ Ontario has a Liberal government... ]
It was a Tory Government that gave us free trade.. which has led to the loss of hundreds of small to mid size companies in all of Canada. Which has led to the decimation of the blue collar working class. Do you see a lot of people asking for money on the street?
Selling global free trade to a benevolent populace on the twisted truth that it would equalize the global economy.. yes, it is doing that, creating a downward spiral in the North American economy; as goods pour in from offshore manufacturers, more and more Canadian companies [US companies as well] are going under..
When the government allowed this, the honest part of the public announcement may have been that it would create a more level 'playing field' for manufacture, that it would allow third world countries to develop industry..
The lie by omission was that the populace was expected to and did assume the result would be a raising of the economy of the world.. when in fact what has happened, predictably.. is the lowering of the North American economies..
A North American market base of 4 hundred million is not sufficient to raise a global economy of over six billion people.. that is simply the case. And you can't tell me nobody in the Fraser Institute saw that coming.
What we got is cheap goods for awhile, as the industries died, or were eaten by other, bigger companies..
What they maybe didn't see coming, was China. And perhaps, that is a good thing.
Now, what needs to be done, is the reinstitution of a tariff on goods made outside our country. Surprising, how our politicians have never broached that topic.. I'd vote for that.
Such a tariff would be equal to the amount similar goods would be taxed if made in Canada, and the funds should be allocated to restarting our own industry.

Sorry Buddy....shouting doesn't make it true....it just makes it difficult to read.

 

[Colpy]

Oh but Colpy..you need to remember the abortion is part of the grand scheme hidden agenda to be unleashed at the innocents once there is a Harper Majority..muwah hahaha!!

I totally agree on the capital punishment issue. If a Canadain goes to Texas and kills 3 people he is bound by the laws of Texas, not Canada. If he wanted to be bound by Canadian laws he needs to kill 3 in Canada, same with any one crossing into Canada to escape U.S. law, they should be sent back that day! The U.S. justice system is fair and basically the same system as us, nothing I see that we need to protect anyone from.

BTW the Globe and Mail quoted Harper's communications director today....he said the Conservative campaign is still waiting for the "Liberal abortion smear", as in the last 4 campaigns the Liberals have released a false accusation of planned abortion legislation at a women's event in Toronto.

I guess EAO is just ahead of the pack........ :smile:

 

[Spocq]

Plan better.

We can not control others. But we can control ourselves and set a good example for others. We can give others good advice and help them to see the consequences of their actions.

 

[darkbeaver]

Nobody wants goddamn advice, we want jobs and food and transportation and Canadian made sneakers and the destruction of Harpers neo-con agenda and prison terms for the signatories of the SPP agreements and our troops on Canadian soil pointing in a southerly direction standing on guard, true, north, strong and free and smoking pot to keep our trigger fingers responsive.
Nation building begins at home. Do we live in Afghanistan? No we don't.

 

[Spocq]

BTW, a major part of the world thought Iraq had WMD, as Saddam had used them, and was in violation of the truce he signed after the first Gulf War........something you guys conviniently forget. And, I don't really give a damn if he had them or not....Death to Tyrants!

The majority of the world said no we don't have enough proof that they have WMD. The majority of the world was against this war. The UN inspectors said they didn't believe he had WMD and needed 2 more months to finish their inspections. If you don't give a damn about due process doesn't that make you a Tyrant, So are you saying that you should die also?

 

[Spocq]

Nobody wants goddamn advice, we want jobs and food and transportation and Canadian made sneakers and the destruction of Harpers neo-con agenda and prison terms for the signatories of the SPP agreements and our troops on Canadian soil pointing in a southerly direction standing on guard, true, north, strong and free and smoking pot to keep our trigger fingers responsive.
Nation building begins at home. Do we live in Afghanistan? No we don't.

Regarding advice, people are open to advice especially when they are suffering from something they did wrong. As long as it is good advice and administered with kindness and understanding. People don't want to suffer and are willing to listen to others to prevent it.

 

[Zzarchov]

Nobody wants goddamn advice, we want jobs and food and transportation and Canadian made sneakers and the destruction of Harpers neo-con agenda and prison terms for the signatories of the SPP agreements and our troops on Canadian soil pointing in a southerly direction standing on guard, true, north, strong and free and smoking pot to keep our trigger fingers responsive.
Nation building begins at home. Do we live in Afghanistan? No we don't.

Jobs? You've said thats capitalist filth,

Troops? You've called them (and me for having been one) murderers, why should we murder on your behalf instead of anybody elses.

 

[sommy]

response To Colpy

Hi, I see you quoted and responded to my posting, thanks for the attention. I must apologise for the large print.. There you do have a point. Imported the comment and it grew... couldn't figure out how to shrink it..
I do appreciate your criticism, and will do my best to use a font more suitable..

And while your comment, that large print "does not make it true," is correct.. and succinct, it is equally correct that a criticism of the font or type size I used is not really a valid response to the content, no matter how disparaging the manner in which it is put...

I would encourage you to reread the posting, with my apology for the font - sit back from the computer if you must - and think about it.. and if you have any questions or comments pertinent to the content, please post them. [I won't - oh, maybe I will- make a comment on large print as opposed to fine; if my error is in putting my thoughts in large print, I am at least not culpable of having hidden anything nasty in the fine print.]


Of course the Conservatives have beggared this country with free trade. "Canada is Open for Business," wasn't that the guy who began free trade... of course it was. Famous quote, that. And since free trade has been instituted, how many businesses have 'gone south?'

Perhaps I was a bit hasty in my earlier note.. I should have said more.