HANDGUNS!!!!.......YIKES!!!!....in canada

[#juan]

My Daddy told me once, when I commented on the cheap lock he was putting on our cabin;locks are to keep honest people honest, no lock here will keep a crook out but that cheap lock is so it can be easily broken by someone needing shelter, such a person will not steal anything. Cary that way of thinking to guns and you will soon realize that no matter what ban you put on anything, man's ingenuity will find a way around it, even kids. What needs to be done, just comes down to raising your kids with proper social values. See: I didn't say; "Guns don't kill people, people do"

Good points, and welcome to Can Con.

 

[Unforgiven]

Unforgiven, are you being a troll?

Yeah some what, but there is a reason for that.

You think all the guns in Britain came from legal owners, who voluntarily just gave away their guns?

Wrong. They were made in Britain in secret mob factories. They raided one not too long ago.

Oh I would love to hear about that! Post a link or two would you so I can have a read up on it.

I suspect that it's not really how you say it is, as there is probably some gun manufacturer in the loop somewhere.

No different than how pot gets to Island nations where its illegal, grow ops. Organized crime isn't going to give up guns because they can't buy them legally (they didn't before anyways).

Hugely different. Saying that there is no point in making a connection between gun manufacturers and criminals who use guns is ridiculous. At some point someone has to take advantage of the loopholes in the law to supply the guns and make the money.

They just make them. Guns aren't that hard to make, I can make one in your average garage machine shop.

Yet so many that are found on the street after a crime are manufactured by gun companies rather than something home made. Granted plenty are altered from their original configuration. ie Making fully automatic out of semiautomatic and lethally functional guns out of replicas.

In much of the developing world assault rifles are made in tents with basic hand tools.

Ah you mean assembled. Not quite the same as making a gun from the base materials after all. Yeah a case full of gun parts that is put together in a tent is manufacturing now is it?

Add to that in Canada, you don't need "gun nuts" switching guns around. You need someone putting a few in the back of a car and driving across the border.

Yeah I suppose that it's not some gun nut that has gone across the border and talked to a few gun nuts in the US that figured out how to smuggle guns across the border. It's the little old ladies heading to Buffalo on a bingo junket that figures what the hell a couple of Glocks in the trunk and a couple of assault rifles broken down and stuck into the door cavities and no one is going to bother you. We all know that it's not shipped by the crate load from small poorly regulated gun shops in transport trucks hauling junk on a return trip.
Cause that never happens. Sure maybe some gang bangers with the right bling and those gold teef can fool the average border guard into not bothering to look in the car, but it ain't' the gun nuts in Canada working with the gun nuts in the US who feel that everyone should have guns. You know for protection from people with guns.

Was that a little too sarcastic?

Tell you what, tell me how you plan to use the law to keep other dangerous banned susbtances out of Canada, like Cocaine and Heroin, and then we'll just use that method once its been shown you can keep those from being available on every street corner.

Simple. Anyone who has studied the war on drugs, knows that it's the unimaginable profits you can make off pot that makes it worth while. Pull that lynch pin and the whole pyramid falls. It's not free to import coke or heroin. It costs big bucks to get that into the country. And none of it grows here naturally like pot does. So the simple and most effective method of stopping coke, and heroin importation, is the cut the funding from pot. Which is by the way the most widely used illegal drug in North America.

Decriminalization takes all the risk out of the equation. You can grow your own for a few cents if you like. So there is a choice. You can grow your own in your back yard for free or you can buy an ounce for a couple of hundred bucks. There is no special preparation of it when it's finished growing. You cut it down and let it dry. Bob's yer uncle.

So we take the 11 billion dollars out of the hands of organized crime each year and see what happens. No one is going to afford coke and heroin since it will cost thousands per gram. The market for coke and heroin is time in comparison to pot. So there is no getting that short fall made up. Not to mention that most long term users of coke and heroin are addicted to it and some to the point of not being able to support themselves and their drug habit.

Should someone become a pest out in public with pot, the police can still take it away from them and slap them with a fine for a few hundred bucks. Now that is a deterrent.
But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe just about everyone will choose to pay hundreds of dollars for a small amount of pot even though they can just grow it in the yard for nothing. I don't think so, but maybe you're right. :roll:

fyi: Sweden does have alot of gun ownership, and a very large problem with Neo-Nazi's. 50 years of socialism doesn't mean the people are hippies, nor that socialists don't like guns.

Hey it's your example not mine. heh heh

I am by and large a pragmatic socialist (with a strong libertarian streak), and I would not support any politician calling for a ban on guns. Thats a rural vs urban issue and rural people tend to be socialists if left to their own devices (thats where the ndp started, rural canada)

That's nice and all. But you see there are people like Colpy here who feel it's a good idea to really crack down on crime, like smoking a joint in your back yard when you are about to mow the lawn. And the scourge of trafficking, like your neighbor across the street who sells you a quarter ounce out of the ounce he bought to lower the cost of the weed.

We could work together to addres the real problems but that doesn't ssem to be on the radar for some people. So you come for me, I'll come for you and one of us can be happy with the outcome.

So if people who have no problem with guns guns guns coming up from the States wants to see me go down, then I figure that those people need to go down first. ****'em I say. Smoking a bowl of pot never killed anyone. Losing a bag of weed never killed anyone, nor has buying the bud off your friend.

Can't be said about the hand gun hobby can it?

There is a divide that's growing between two groups and the way they see North America.
I'm not going to stand around and watch them gather against me. It's not hard to make criminals out of good people to make a political career. It's not difficult to get the fear up so that even normal upstanding people find they are a target for something that isn't the real problem. Nor is it difficult to arrest a segment of the population, call them demons and make it look like you are cleaning up a problem.

 

[Unforgiven]

Now here's a guy that believes in rule of law! (sarcasm alert)

You'd be happier in Stalinist Russia.

Here people are not allowed to be judge jury and executioner.

Hey you've said yourself that you could step into that position if the circumstances were right. Seems to me you would be happier in Texas.

 

[Colpy]

Hey you've said yourself that you could step into that position if the circumstances were right. Seems to me you would be happier in Texas.

Shooting in defense is not being judge jury and executioner........that is the only way, as a civilian, I would shoot at another human being.

That's nice and all. But you see there are people like Colpy here who feel it's a good idea to really crack down on crime, like smoking a joint in your back yard when you are about to mow the lawn. And the scourge of trafficking, like your neighbor across the street who sells you a quarter ounce out of the ounce he bought to lower the cost of the weed.

If you had read any of my posts here on the subject, you would know that I advocate the legalization of marijuana.....not just decriminalization.

I also don't like mandatory sentencing.

If you are accusing me of being a far-right advocate of hang-em-high drug laws and compulsary sentencing.....you are barking up the wrong tree. I understand liberty.

Unlike the Firearms Act, which tramples about four of our most basic rights.

 

[Colpy]

In much of the developing world assault rifles are made in tents with basic hand tools.

Unforgiven replied:

Ah you mean assembled. Not quite the same as making a gun from the base materials after all. Yeah a case full of gun parts that is put together in a tent is manufacturing now is it?

Wrong again! Or should I say still.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ribe-refuses-to-lay-down-its-guns-668425.html

These guys build 'em from scratch.........using scap metal. They have been doing it for 120 years, and the copies are often very good.....the Brits actually bought 30,000 Lee Enfields from them in WWII.........and many of the shops that produce these weapons don't even have electricity!

BTW, NY gangs back in the day used to make zip guns.....single shot .22s.....from car antennas and door latches. Literally.

You forget....you are dealing with 100 or 150 year old technology.........the first semi-auto sporting rifle was marketed in 1903. the service revolver I carried at Brinks was patented in 1899. The best semi-auto pistol, the one the absolute pros use, are all clones of the Colt 1911, patented in 1905. Colt still produces, in its custom shop, the Colt Single Action Army........a tough, powerful, reasonably compact piece, introduced in 1872. Canadian troops carry Browning P-35s, patented in 1925. Not hard to reproduce that level of technology in make-shift shops in the hills.....or in your basement. Homemade guns are constantly seized in prisons....

 

[Hyack]

Just found this thread, too bad I missed most of it, being an avid shooter over the years. Anyhow check out the video on Darra...

The Gun Bazaar of Pakistan

 

[Unforgiven]

Shooting in defense is not being judge jury and executioner........that is the only way, as a civilian, I would shoot at another human being.

According to what you've posted here you would shoot at pets running loose, if you could see them or not, people, in self defence and all that jazz. What is shooting a handgun to you anyway? A hobby, same as everyone else who shoots handguns in Canada. The problem is your hobby that you cling to so adamantly has a side effect of killing a lot of people each year. So explain why it is that since there are so few of you that are interested in this hobby, that handguns should be freely available in Canada.

If you had read any of my posts here on the subject, you would know that I advocate the legalization of marijuana.....not just decriminalization.

Of course you are. And so if the government is selling lousy pot for a little more money than what you can buy really good pot for from organized crime, exactly what is it that you are supporting? Hell make handguns available to anyone who wants w=one for $9000 and make sure that they are so poorly made that if it fires at all, it won't know a tin can of a fence post from ten feet away. That should clear up the illegal gun problem and the criminals that use them right? Plus the tax payer will win the lottery. Sure it's stupid, but that's the amount of thought you've managed to put into this isn't it.

I also don't like mandatory sentencing.

Yeah well no one likes that but still it's about voting along party lines rather than the issues. Does it really matter if someone is going to outlaw small portions of the population at a time before they get to you?

If you are accusing me of being a far-right advocate of hang-em-high drug laws and compulsary sentencing.....you are barking up the wrong tree. I understand liberty.

Unlike the Firearms Act, which tramples about four of our most basic rights.

You don't care who hangs who as long as you get your handguns provided for.
You don't understand liberty at all. You cling to a simplified version that appeals to you regardless of how much it attacks others. I know you better than you know yourself. I think you simply aren't used to someone using your own tactics against you.

You're a bad person, you want bad things for the country and most of the people who live here. I figure you need to go one way or the other. Rust in jail or leave the country, I don't care which. Same for the US. Some people feel it's best to lay waste to anyone whom they think might be a threat to them. Bushco, MCcain, Bush, Reagan,it's all the same ****.
and it's time we settled for once and for all just which way this is going to go down.

Post the rights you have that are trampled by the Firearms Act.

 

[Unforgiven]

Unforgiven replied:


Wrong again! Or should I say still.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ribe-refuses-to-lay-down-its-guns-668425.html

These guys build 'em from scratch.........using scap metal. They have been doing it for 120 years, and the copies are often very good.....the Brits actually bought 30,000 Lee Enfields from them in WWII.........and many of the shops that produce these weapons don't even have electricity!

BTW, NY gangs back in the day used to make zip guns.....single shot .22s.....from car antennas and door latches. Literally.

You forget....you are dealing with 100 or 150 year old technology.........the first semi-auto sporting rifle was marketed in 1903. the service revolver I carried at Brinks was patented in 1899. The best semi-auto pistol, the one the absolute pros use, are all clones of the Colt 1911, patented in 1905. Colt still produces, in its custom shop, the Colt Single Action Army........a tough, powerful, reasonably compact piece, introduced in 1872. Canadian troops carry Browning P-35s, patented in 1925. Not hard to reproduce that level of technology in make-shift shops in the hills.....or in your basement. Homemade guns are constantly seized in prisons....

Interesting.
The remote north eastern regions of Pakistan isn't quite Toronto or London England for that matter. But let's say that it's so, why aren't they arrested and the machinery confiscated? Isn't it illegal under current laws to make and sell guns without any regulation?

 

[Colpy]

Interesting.
The remote north eastern regions of Pakistan isn't quite Toronto or London England for that matter. But let's say that it's so, why aren't they arrested and the machinery confiscated? Isn't it illegal under current laws to make and sell guns without any regulation?

True, the hills of Pakistan are not Jane and Finch.....my point was that the complete elimination of firearms is next to impossible.

 

[Colpy]

According to what you've posted here you would shoot at pets running loose, if you could see them or not, people, in self defence and all that jazz. What is shooting a handgun to you anyway? A hobby, same as everyone else who shoots handguns in Canada. The problem is your hobby that you cling to so adamantly has a side effect of killing a lot of people each year. So explain why it is that since there are so few of you that are interested in this hobby, that handguns should be freely available in Canada.

Please don't misquote me....I said I MIGHT shoot at a dog running deer in the woods in deep snow. So MIGHT anyone else with a sense of decency..........

Registered Handguns in Canada do not kill "........alot of people every year" Stats Canada shows that of all the people murdered in Canada between 1997 and 2005, only 2.27 percent were done with a gun that had EVER been registered in Canada. That means of 5,194 murders, only 118 were done with a gun that had EVER been registered. Only 65% of those were done with handguns, which leaves us with 77 dead from registered handguns. In 9 years. 9 a year. Max. Good lord, there were a dozen people killed on ATCs in just NB a few years ago...

Your chances of being killed by with a handgun that had EVER been registered is one in 4,117,647 in any particular year.

A little paranoid, are you?

Post the rights you have that are trampled by the Firearms Act

.

-The Right to be free from unreasonable search
Traditionally, the only reason a warrant can be issued to search a person's home is that there has been a crime committed, and there is "reasonable cause" to believe that there is evidence pertaining to that crime on the premises. Under the Firearms Act, I must submit to "inspections" that are searches......and if I refuse, a judge "shall issue" (he has no choice) a warrant. No crime committed, no evidence.

-The right to Remain Silent
While my house is being "inspected", the Firearms Act demands that I offer the "inspector" every assistance, including answering all his questions. I can get two years for refusing to do so. So much for the right to remain silent.

-Te right to privacy
Ever read a Firearms License application? They ask a number of questions... (suffered marriage breakdown, relationship breakdown, lose a job? etc.) that have been questioned by the Privacy Commissioner.

-Right to free association
I can be refused a license because I live with someone the gov't doesn't like...

-Right to be presumed innocent
In a number of regulations, the onus is left to the defendent to prove that he is not guilty of theoffense.

The Act is bad enough that the Supreme Court, while rejecting the jurisdictional aspect of the previous court challenge under section 92 of the Constitution, took the unprecendented step of inviting challenge to other aspects of the Act........

cases are working their way through the courts now.

When they want your weapons, they want your freedom.

 

[Unforgiven]

Please don't misquote me....I said I MIGHT shoot at a dog running deer in the woods in deep snow. So MIGHT anyone else with a sense of decency..........

I don't think it's decent to shoot pets. There are plenty of options.

Registered Handguns in Canada do not kill "........alot of people every year" Stats Canada shows that of all the people murdered in Canada between 1997 and 2005, only 2.27 percent were done with a gun that had EVER been registered in Canada. That means of 5,194 murders, only 118 were done with a gun that had EVER been registered. Only 65% of those were done with handguns, which leaves us with 77 dead from registered handguns. In 9 years. 9 a year. Max. Good lord, there were a dozen people killed on ATCs in just NB a few years ago...

So what you're saying is that 8.5 people each year are killed by a legal registered handgun.
Not only that, but you seem to think that it's not a bad thing. All other gun related deaths aside, what the hell is the matter with you?

2.4 % of all violent crimes are with handguns. Why is there any at all? I see no justification for something that has no other use what so ever than killing people.

Your chances of being killed by with a handgun that had EVER been registered is one in 4,117,647 in any particular year.
A little paranoid, are you?

In 2006 according to StatsCan 8100 times someone becomes the victim of gun violence yearly. Almost 2/3 are committed with handguns. Almost three times as many people as we killed during 9/11 in which we went to war over. So it's either a big deal or it's not. You tell me which.

The Right to be free from unreasonable search
Traditionally, the only reason a warrant can be issued to search a person's home is that there has been a crime committed, and there is "reasonable cause" to believe that there is evidence pertaining to that crime on the premises. Under the Firearms Act, I must submit to "inspections" that are searches......and if I refuse, a judge "shall issue" (he has no choice) a warrant. No crime committed, no evidence.

Traditionally? WTF is that? Do you think liberty is driving a car that isn't inspected for safety or emissions? How about heavy transport? Should the government only be allowed to inspect a truck train or aircraft after it has crashed and killed a bunch of people? Hell that isn't liberty that's stupid.

I have to take my car in to allow for a professional to examine it and make sure that it meets safety requirements to drive on the road. I also have to submit to questioning, and two examinations in order to prove that I am able to drive the car safely.

Aren't Doctors, Lawyers, Police, Firemen hell even students questioned and inspected even though no crime has been committed? Rights violation my eye!

-The right to Remain Silent
While my house is being "inspected", the Firearms Act demands that I offer the "inspector" every assistance, including answering all his questions. I can get two years for refusing to do so. So much for the right to remain silent.

You seem to think so called Miranda rights extend to people who aren't under arrest. Do you think these rights also become enacted when you want to get a drivers licence? :roll:

-Te right to privacy
Ever read a Firearms License application? They ask a number of questions... (suffered marriage breakdown, relationship breakdown, lose a job? etc.) that have been questioned by the Privacy Commissioner.

Hey we all know crazy people and guns don't mix well don't we. So now you feel that being crazy is one thing but having someone even ask if you might at some point go crazy is some violation of your rights. Are you ****ing nuts?

-Right to free association
I can be refused a license because I live with someone the gov't doesn't like...

Like Al Qaeda? Yeah that's just not fair is it. You see it's this sort of stuff that tells me that people like you who feel that guns can be safely kept around anyone no matter how violent and insane they might be is your right. Not a privilege to be earned by acting responsible.

-Right to be presumed innocent
In a number of regulations, the onus is left to the defendent to prove that he is not guilty of theoffense.

Specifics please.

The Act is bad enough that the Supreme Court, while rejecting the jurisdictional aspect of the previous court challenge under section 92 of the Constitution, took the unprecendented step of inviting challenge to other aspects of the Act........

Bad law is bad law. Some people feel that this sort of thing is an unelected person making Canadian law. And I might add, that it's lobby groups that are funded by business affected by those laws that most often arrange to bring those challenges to the Court.

When they want your weapons, they want your freedom.

Yeah like when they want the sticks you keep "losing" that end up stuck in some kids eye.

How about the freedom from being shot with guns stolen from a collectors house that
now arms a gang of a few hundred criminals. Sure lots of people may die but it's nice to have a collection.

Like I said before, your hobby doesn't mean so much to me that I am willing to look away when people are killed and injured by it.

 

[Unforgiven]

True, the hills of Pakistan are not Jane and Finch.....my point was that the complete elimination of firearms is next to impossible.

So was going to the Moon and non-invasive angioplasty. Now it's reality. There are no secret machine shops turning out guns for all the criminals in Canada. While I accept that there are a few about that produce some poor quality replicas, and restricted collectors items, the vast majority come from the US, sold at gun shows and stores and legal guns reported stolen in Canada.

 

[Zzarchov]

So, you want to spend billions of dollars to save 8.5 people

Rather than saving tens of thousands of people for the same amount of money?


What the hell is wrong with you? What is your obessession with guns that you will let tens of thousands of people die?

 

[Zzarchov]

So was going to the Moon and non-invasive angioplasty. Now it's reality. There are no secret machine shops turning out guns for all the criminals in Canada. While I accept that there are a few about that produce some poor quality replicas, and restricted collectors items, the vast majority come from the US, sold at gun shows and stores and legal guns reported stolen in Canada.

Of course the guns in Canada come from the US, its the cheapest source. Our Pot also comes from Canada (local) instead of Amsterdam.

That doesn't mean if you get rid of the pot in Canada there won't be anymore in Canada, it means it will come from a different source.

You cannot remove guns from the world. They are far too easy to manufacture and make. ITs like banning knifes or pointy sticks.

You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

 

[Unforgiven]

So, you want to spend billions of dollars to save 8.5 people

Rather than saving tens of thousands of people for the same amount of money?


What the hell is wrong with you? What is your obessession with guns that you will let tens of thousands of people die?

Yeah I'm funny that way. You're not interested in saving anyone other than your own greedy manipulative and selfserving kind. At the expense of everyone else I might add. No it's time we cut you parasites and leeches loose

 

[Unforgiven]

Of course the guns in Canada come from the US, its the cheapest source. Our Pot also comes from Canada (local) instead of Amsterdam.

That doesn't mean if you get rid of the pot in Canada there won't be anymore in Canada, it means it will come from a different source.

You cannot remove guns from the world. They are far too easy to manufacture and make. ITs like banning knifes or pointy sticks.

You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Why would anyone want to get rid of Pot? It kills no one. I can fire off bud after bud after bud and all that happens is people get a little giggly. There is no need to get rid of it. But we could take all those billions and billions of dollars spent each year to try and get rid of it and instead make sure no guns at all come into Canada from the States.

The bottom like is you can try and stab me but I'll beat the hell out of you and take your knife away. You can try to stab me with a pointy stick, but again I'll just beat the hell out of you with your pointy stick and then take it away from you. The only way you can harm anyone, and this is true of all you gun nuts, is by hiding some distance away and shooting people with a gun.

Genie schmenie, it's a matter of cutting the cancer out so the rest of the body can live. We just need to get down to it. I plan on working towards that goal.

 

[Zzarchov]

Yeah some what, but there is a reason for that.
Oh I would love to hear about that! Post a link or two would you so I can have a read up on it.

Here are two different cases of turning toy guns (And yes, they aren't high grade replicas they are toys with orange tips and cheap parts in many cases) to real ones. Of course you don't even need the toys, they are just used so they LOOK like real guns (for intimidation), the moving parts and live ammunition can use steel tubing and rough hewn wood, it will just look unimpressive.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/3246795.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/berkshire/7585437.stm


"The conversion has been done by effectively members of the public with no apparent professional training," he said. "They've been able to convert these weapons with relative ease using things that you can just buy from B&Q or just buy from the internet.

Hugely different. Saying that there is no point in making a connection between gun manufacturers and criminals who use guns is ridiculous. At some point someone has to take advantage of the loopholes in the law to supply the guns and make the money.

No, you don't need a loophole. You can just break the law. Its what criminals do. Its the same damn thing as drug producers. Its not a legal loophole, its breaking the law.

Yet so many that are found on the street after a crime are manufactured by gun companies rather than something home made. Granted plenty are altered from their original configuration. ie Making fully automatic out of semiautomatic and lethally functional guns out of replicas.

Actually, no, as reading above, MOST (not just plenty)of the guncrimes in britain come from illegally manufactured guns.

Ah you mean assembled. Not quite the same as making a gun from the base materials after all. Yeah a case full of gun parts that is put together in a tent is manufacturing now is it?

No, I mean built. From Scratch. Many of the most successful firearms (Stens and AK-47) are specifically designed to be able to be built and assembled from scratch in simple environment such as that. They are not assembled, they are built.

Yeah I suppose that it's not some gun nut that has gone across the border and talked to a few gun nuts in the US that figured out how to smuggle guns across the border. It's the little old ladies heading to Buffalo on a bingo junket that figures what the hell a couple of Glocks in the trunk and a couple of assault rifles broken down and stuck into the door cavities and no one is going to bother you. We all know that it's not shipped by the crate load from small poorly regulated gun shops in transport trucks hauling junk on a return trip.
Cause that never happens. Sure maybe some gang bangers with the right bling and those gold teef can fool the average border guard into not bothering to look in the car, but it ain't' the gun nuts in Canada working with the gun nuts in the US who feel that everyone should have guns. You know for protection from people with guns.

You mean like drugs? Smugglers and Mules do look like little old ladies as often as not. Drug dealers and Pimps don't drive around like obvious targets with trunks full of Cocaine. Its normal looking people with 3 kilos stuck in the bottom of the minivan thats got 3 kids a wife and a dog in it. Have you not noticed that grow ops in Canada are conducted by normal looking middle class people? Thats how smuggling works. Organized crime isn't stupid.

Simple. Anyone who has studied the war on drugs, knows that it's the unimaginable profits you can make off pot that makes it worth while. Pull that lynch pin and the whole pyramid falls. It's not free to import coke or heroin. It costs big bucks to get that into the country. And none of it grows here naturally like pot does. So the simple and most effective method of stopping coke, and heroin importation, is the cut the funding from pot. Which is by the way the most widely used illegal drug in North America.

Uhm, No. Read up, people import coke and heroin because they pay for themselves. No one imports drugs at a loss, its not a charity. Most coke and heroin importers do not deal with Pot. Its a giant money making engine on its own.

Dealing with pot deals with pot, it does not deal with heroin or coke.

Should someone become a pest out in public with pot, the police can still take it away from them and slap them with a fine for a few hundred bucks. Now that is a deterrent.
But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe just about everyone will choose to pay hundreds of dollars for a small amount of pot even though they can just grow it in the yard for nothing. I don't think so, but maybe you're right. :roll:

No doubt that would solve the pot issue. But your quite naive if you think pot funds Heroin.

Is that how you think it works? Drug dealers take a loss to import drugs that nobody wants? So they can twirl their mustache and sell it at a loss to ruin the lives of highschool kids?


But if thats how you think it works:
"Hey it's your example not mine. heh heh"

So if people who have no problem with guns guns guns coming up from the States wants to see me go down, then I figure that those people need to go down first. ****'em I say. Smoking a bowl of pot never killed anyone. Losing a bag of weed never killed anyone, nor has buying the bud off your friend.

Can't be said about the hand gun hobby can it?

Yes it can. No one has ever died at a firing range (in greater numbers than those who die from smoking too much pot), Buying a gun off your friend never killed anyone either.

There is reason the highest gun ownership rates in north America are with the Amish.

There is a divide that's growing between two groups and the way they see North America.
I'm not going to stand around and watch them gather against me. It's not hard to make criminals out of good people to make a political career. It's not difficult to get the fear up so that even normal upstanding people find they are a target for something that isn't the real problem. Nor is it difficult to arrest a segment of the population, call them demons and make it look like you are cleaning up a problem.

I agree. Hint Hint look carefully at your own views.

 

[Zzarchov]

Why would anyone want to get rid of Pot? It kills no one. I can fire off bud after bud after bud and all that happens is people get a little giggly. There is no need to get rid of it. But we could take all those billions and billions of dollars spent each year to try and get rid of it and instead make sure no guns at all come into Canada from the States.

The bottom like is you can try and stab me but I'll beat the hell out of you and take your knife away. You can try to stab me with a pointy stick, but again I'll just beat the hell out of you with your pointy stick and then take it away from you. The only way you can harm anyone, and this is true of all you gun nuts, is by hiding some distance away and shooting people with a gun.

Genie schmenie, it's a matter of cutting the cancer out so the rest of the body can live. We just need to get down to it. I plan on working towards that goal.

Modern pot can indeed hurt people, usually teenagers, who can now OD on it. Its alot different than it used to be.

2. No, if I stab you, your dead.

2 reasons - 1, Im ex military
2, Im not going to tell you


Now I don't know you, maybe you've also got more than enough skill to hold your own.

So the better question is: If you decide to hurt or stab someone smaller and weaker than you

What are they going to do to defend themselves? I hope your not implying small frail people are always criminals and big burly handsome gentlemen are always the heroes?

The old saying goes along the lines of "the constitution said all men are equal, smith and wesson made it true". Thats for a reason.

Guns protect the weak and vulnerable from the strong and powerful.

I agree banning pot is stupid. Because you can't ban things people want. Alls you can do is reduce who wants them.

The end of the line is, if people want them, they will have them. You prove that as a criminal yourself. You know its illegal what you do, but you do it anyways under self justification, even though you also know and admit your funding the very criminals who hurt people with guns.

When you accept that people are pretty much equal in their capabilities, you can see easily the flaws in your view.


After all, if the US can spend Billions and billions to try and keep pot out of the US from Canada and fails when its illegal in Canada,

How on earth do you think you can spend less and keep guns from the US (where its legal) from Coming to Canada. Its non-sensical,

Even if you used magic wizard powers to succeed, then people will just build guns here.

 

[Colpy]

I don't think it's decent to shoot pets. There are plenty of options.

Name one.

So what you're saying is that 8.5 people each year are killed by a legal registered handgun.
Not only that, but you seem to think that it's not a bad thing. All other gun related deaths aside, what the hell is the matter with you?

2.4 % of all violent crimes are with handguns. Why is there any at all? I see no justification for something that has no other use what so ever than killing people.

10 people a year in Canada die after being struck by lightning. 23 died in Ontario alone in the first 10 months of 2007 on ATVs. 45,000 die ech year in Canada from smoking, 4,000 of those from second hand smoke. More people die every year in swimming pools.......a lot more.

You can not have freedom without some risk.....if you want to save lives by banning handguns, logically you would first concentrate on the other "useless" killers....ATVs, cigarettes, swimming pools...........how many die on skateboards, skis, skates...??????

More than are killed with registered handguns. You need to develop a sense of perspective.

In 2006 according to StatsCan 8100 times someone becomes the victim of gun violence yearly. Almost 2/3 are committed with handguns. Almost three times as many people as we killed during 9/11 in which we went to war over. So it's either a big deal or it's not. You tell me which.

But in over 97% of those instances the guns were not registered.....therefore, by definition, you have absolutely no control over them, banning them would not change the stats.........THINK Unforgiven

Traditionally? WTF is that? Do you think liberty is driving a car that isn't inspected for safety or emissions? How about heavy transport? Should the government only be allowed to inspect a truck train or aircraft after it has crashed and killed a bunch of people? Hell that isn't liberty that's stupid.

Sigh. Compact version of English Common Law IT IS ALL BASED ON TRADITION called precedent. You don't need to enter my home to "inspect" my car: the second you start looking around in my house for things to charge me with it is a SEARCH, no matter what else you call it. That is simply obvious.

I have to take my car in to allow for a professional to examine it and make sure that it meets safety requirements to drive on the road. I also have to submit to questioning, and two examinations........Aren't Doctors, Lawyers, Police, Firemen hell even students questioned and inspected even though no crime has been committed? Rights violation my eye!

If you can't see the difference...Geezus! Can you be charged with a criminal offense if your car has bad brakes? Or if you refuse to take the examination? No. You volunteer, you are not searched for contraband, and none of this is the result of the state forcing its way into your home......... There is the big difference.

You seem to think so called Miranda rights extend to people who aren't under arrest. Do you think these rights also become enacted when you want to get a drivers licence? :roll:

I have a right to not have to bear witness against myself, without penalty....that right is 450 years old, and is to prevent the use of torture....that is English Common Law and the basis of the Right to remain silent. This is NOT the USA, so Miranda has nothing to do with it.


Hey we all know crazy people and guns don't mix well don't we. So now you feel that being crazy is one thing but having someone even ask if you might at some point go crazy is some violation of your rights. Are you ****ing nuts?

I actually don't think this is that unreasonable..........



Like Al Qaeda? Yeah that's just not fair is it. You see it's this sort of stuff that tells me that people like you who feel that guns can be safely kept around anyone no matter how violent and insane they might be is your right. Not a privilege to be earned by acting responsible.

It is a right. See Canute, the Magna Carta, the Bill of Rights of 1689.....all parts of the Canadian constitution.



Specifics please.

If charged with not having a license, you have to prove you do have one. More seriously, if charged with possessing an unregistered firearm, you must prove it is registered......which is impossible, as the registration systen is so F#@ked up it is inadmissible........seriously.

Bad law is bad law. Some people feel that this sort of thing is an unelected person making Canadian law. And I might add, that it's lobby groups that are funded by business affected by those laws that most often arrange to bring those challenges to the Court.

WHAT! Not so. In fact, the challenges are funded by the NFA and the CSSA, both organiztions that are supported by individual members.......and by individual donations. The "gun lobby" is a Canadian myth.....unfortunately.


Yeah like when they want the sticks you keep "losing" that end up stuck in some kids eye.

How about the freedom from being shot with guns stolen from a collectors house that
now arms a gang of a few hundred criminals. Sure lots of people may die but it's nice to have a collection.

Like I said before, your hobby doesn't mean so much to me that I am willing to look away when people are killed and injured by it.

So start with swimming pools, skateboards, skis, cigarettes, ATV.........logically, if death and injury are the problem, that is how it would go........

But I submit that is NOT the issue....political correctness is, as revealed by your constant name-calling of anyone that dares own a gun. You see them as ignorant racist red-necks, and you are incapable of tolerance.......everyone has to be just like you.....that is your idea of freedom.

That says a whole lot more negative things about you than it does about gun owners......

 

[Unforgiven]

Here are two different cases of turning toy guns (And yes, they aren't high grade replicas they are toys with orange tips and cheap parts in many cases) to real ones. Of course you don't even need the toys, they are just used so they LOOK like real guns (for intimidation), the moving parts and live ammunition can use steel tubing and rough hewn wood, it will just look unimpressive.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/3246795.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/berkshire/7585437.stm


"The conversion has been done by effectively members of the public with no apparent professional training," he said. "They've been able to convert these weapons with relative ease using things that you can just buy from B&Q or just buy from the internet.

Talk about gun nuts, this guy must be someone's hero. You said it yourself, they can convert these weapons with reletive ease. Ban the lot of them and enforce it.

Hugely different. Saying that there is no point in making a connection between gun manufacturers and criminals who use guns is ridiculous. At some point someone has to take advantage of the loopholes in the law to supply the guns and make the money.

No, you don't need a loophole. You can just break the law. Its what criminals do. Its the same damn thing as drug producers. Its not a legal loophole, its breaking the law.

Blank fireing guns are imported. By whom do you thing would want to import blank fireing guns? Then they are converted and at that point become illegal. Pretending that a blank fireing gun is something different than a lethal hand gun is a joke. Make a few simple adjustments and you have the real thing.

Actually, no, as reading above, MOST (not just plenty)of the guncrimes in britain come from illegally manufactured guns.

Why are there any? Why is it that people should be killed simply for the sake of someones hobby? Now let's not get confused here, I don't mind you going and blowing off your fool head with a gun. More power to you if that's what you want to do. I don't want you to take anyone else you, or finance something else by "losing" your guns.

No, I mean built. From Scratch. Many of the most successful firearms (Stens and AK-47) are specifically designed to be able to be built and assembled from scratch in simple environment such as that. They are not assembled, they are built.

Maybe it's not as difficult in the back hills of Pakistan but not one is churning out thousands of guns from their back sheds in Britian. Those who do manage to make a gun should be made example of.

You mean like drugs? Smugglers and Mules do look like little old ladies as often as not. Drug dealers and Pimps don't drive around like obvious targets with trunks full of Cocaine. Its normal looking people with 3 kilos stuck in the bottom of the minivan thats got 3 kids a wife and a dog in it. Have you not noticed that grow ops in Canada are conducted by normal looking middle class people? Thats how smuggling works. Organized crime isn't stupid.

Grow ops are run by (more often than not) asians either smuggled into the country or so poor they are unable to make a liveable wage on their own and so, put to work for promises and a place to live in the grow op. No one would be smuggling drugs into Canada if it wasn't for the huge amount of money you can get from selling pot. Pull that from the equation and the whole thing crumbles.

Uhm, No. Read up, people import coke and heroin because they pay for themselves. No one imports drugs at a loss, its not a charity. Most coke and heroin importers do not deal with Pot. Its a giant money making engine on its own.

Dealing with pot deals with pot, it does not deal with heroin or coke.

You're mixing the two countries together. Though I know that's a bit of a wet dream for you, it's not factual. Those who use coke, heroin are a small number of people. Pot is the cash crop in Canada. In the US, there is a huge market for hard drugs. There it's profitable to send a plane load after plane load of coke that cost you little to grow refine and package for export. The Canadian market can't support that.

No doubt that would solve the pot issue. But your quite naive if you think pot funds Heroin.

How many people in North America do you think smoke Pot compared to Coke and Heroin on a regular basis?

Is that how you think it works? Drug dealers take a loss to import drugs that nobody wants? So they can twirl their mustache and sell it at a loss to ruin the lives of highschool kids?

Nope they just can't make enough money off it to support organized crime. Small dealers have a niche but in the end it's still a niche and not worth the effort of a cartel. Miami isn't Vancouver.

Yes it can. No one has ever died at a firing range (in greater numbers than those who die from smoking too much pot), Buying a gun off your friend never killed anyone either.

This is just bull****.

BELLEVUE -- A woman rented a handgun at a gun range, exchanged it for a smaller weapon, then used it to shoot herself in the head -- the second fatal shooting at Wade's Gun Shop in six days.

There is zero chance of killing yourself by smoking a joint. No one ever has. Deal with it.

There is reason the highest gun ownership rates in north America are with the Amish.

Yeah well if that isn't the hands down clincher to any argument. :roll: