The earthquakes that follow the total solar eclipse.

[Tonington]

Les,

Well, I'm not actually a scientist. It's not the first time someone thought that. Online anonymity and whatnot. I'm nearly finished my bachelors degree. You need at least a Master's degree to be considered a scientist. You simply don't publish, except for perhaps a few honorary mentions during your bachelor, from summer break jobs in research.

Research is a lot of fun, especially your first dip in the pool, however. I've been well trained to think like a scientist. Biology, stats, chemistry, physics, calculus, geology. There are certain themes that re-occur.

As to Eanassirs nonsense, you'll never find explanations of gravity and an objects temperature, heat content doesn't change mass-which is essential to a phenomenon like universal gravitation. Inversely proportional to a squared term (distance, very important) and all....

Gravity itself doesn't seem to affect earthquakes either. We know that from time series' of earthquakes and tide cycles. Even if the gravity was large enough, the friction from two plates of crust, in contact with one another, and slipping in different directions, is the defining factor.

Not all fault boundaries are slipping in a vertical direction against one another, those that would benefit most from a increased overhead force of gravity. Strike slipping faults move horizontally, and dipping faults move vertically.

Ever tried to bang a wedge between two pieces of attached wood? That's what the majority of fault lines are like. It's very rare to find one straight up and down (that would most likely mean two plates with equal mass distribution, and densities, and many other factors) which is more like pulling a nail out with a hammer..

You don't even need to be a scientist to give credulence to this argument. You just have to think about things logically, and have access, or know where to find good sources. Plenty of non-scientists can learn that well enough to discern the crap from the crapola.

You don't have to be a scientist to understand the inherent fallacy in using religious texts, wrote down by extreme people in extreme conditions, before new knowledge became part of our lexicon.

I think if there were any one god, we would need an update for the parables by now. Most are woefully out of date, and without any current meaning. The stories I read of any god indicate to me that he or she would want to correct these kinds of mistakes. When was the last time any god let us know we were being punished?

 

[darkbeaver]

There's a problem with todays science establishment you see. While one has to have degrees to be considered "a scientist" by the establishment many practicing scientists don't have them nor do they give a **** if they ever do have them. The degree ensures a certain ammount of conformity with the establishment which affords ease of sponsership from the owners of acedemia which leads to funding of research and projects which will garner returns for those invested concerns. Again we see the corrosive kiss of the bankers tongue deep in the throat of public independence, of which there is little left that has not been tainted by the private sector.
We can readily see the forced homogeneity in the established cosmological model which stubbornly insists on the retarded notion of the big bang and it's attentend silly singularity when in all likelyhood it's an electric universe full to the brim with charged particles instead of the impracticle emptyness offered by old worn out conventional explanations. They offer stupitys like dark matter and dark energy instead of accepting the reality of a universe full of gharged particles. The other big difficulty with accepted cosmo;ogy is the stubborn insistance that catastrophic events have not occured withing recorded history and are insturmental in evolutionary processes. We could go on and on about the rust and rot in academia but why bother, nobody cares. She's all done with electricity and magnetism.

 

[Tonington]

No, DB, the degrees of science ensures a certain amount of conformity with the rigors of a method, the scientific method. High school is where a student learns conformity with the establishment.

I'm not sure what you mean by electric universe. How does that explain the rate of expansion and gravity?

 

[lone wolf]

No, DB, the degrees of science ensures a certain amount of conformity with the rigors of a method, the scientific method. High school is where a student learns conformity with the establishment.

I'm not sure what you mean by electric universe. How does that explain the rate of expansion and gravity?

Funny thing is, it's not always conforming to the rules and thinking by the numbers (Sheesh, that sounds like a religion!) that discovers the big prize. Sloppy house-keeping laid the groundwork for that mould which became pennicilin. People - especially the ones whose anchors were theory - thought those bicycle boyz from Ohio were nuts before they hit upon wing-warping. I'm sure both the scientific and the church comminities wrote that crazy Christopher Columbus guy off too.

Some things ARE pretty obvious though....

 

[darkbeaver]

No, DB, the degrees of science ensures a certain amount of conformity with the rigors of a method, the scientific method. High school is where a student learns conformity with the establishment.

I'm not sure what you mean by electric universe. How does that explain the rate of expansion and gravity?

Conformity with the scientific method I understand.I have no quarrel with that aspect of the sciences. That highschool imparted conformity does not stop at graduation, the establishment has always retarded developement and discovery. It has the buerocratic disease, it is not subject to the scientific method. The rate of expansion (red shift) has been questioned several times in the past decade, we are not even sure that expansion is taking place. The big bang itself is not law by any means. Gravity is a weak local force eclipsed by electrical magnetism, if it isn;t redundant to use the words together even.
http://www.holoscience.com/

 

[darkbeaver]

picture of the day archive subject index

Credit: X-ray: NASA/CXC/CfA/W. Forman et al.; Radio: NRAO/AUI/NSF/W. Cotton;
Optical: NASA/ESA/Hubble Heritage Team (STScI/AURA), and R. Gendler

Aug 08, 2008
The Braided Filaments of Galaxy M87​

The electrical nature of the first "galactic jet" observed by Curtis in 1918 has been confirmed once again.​

Recent Chandra X-ray Observatory composite images of M87, a large active galaxy in the Virgo Cluster, have revealed the braided, filamentary nature of its "jet." Such braiding is the signature of Birkeland currents in space. Electromagnetic forces pinch the current channels into long filaments in defiance of gravity and gas laws. ​

Multiple currents attract each other when they are far apart but repel each other when they are close, resulting in pairs of filaments spiraling around their common axis. This process can repeat, producing "cables" of pairs of pairs and so on. The cables are efficient carriers of electrical energy over long distances. For example, the long filament to the lower right is over 100,000 light-years long.​

Strong electrical fields in such galactic sized currents accelerate charge carriers to near light speed. The galaxy's magnetic field causes them to emit synchrotron radiation from radio frequencies to x-ray frequencies. With modern instruments such as radio and x-ray telescopes, we can now "see" t

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/00current.htm

 

[Dexter Sinister]

... in all likelyhood it's an electric universe full to the brim with charged particles ...

It does have a lot of charged particles, but "full to the brim" is a bit over the top. Most of it's empty of charged particles except on the quantum scale where things seem to pop in and out of existence in positive and negative pairs, but it takes very delicate instrumentation and careful work to detect it (look up the Casimir Effect). Overall it appears to be electrically neutral because there are equal numbers of positive and negative charges. I read some of that electric universe stuff you pointed me to once, and didn't find any particular merit in it. Electromagnetic forces are 36 orders of magnitude stronger--that means 1 followed by 36 zeros, 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times stronger--than gravitational forces. If they were really what's controlling the large scale structure of the cosmos, that is, if there were significant charge separations on astronomical scales, it would be a very different place than it is, and probably uninhabitable.

 

[eanassir]

Well, I'm not actually a scientist. It's not the first time someone thought that.
As to Eanassirs nonsense, you'll never find explanations of gravity and an objects temperature, heat content doesn't change mass-which is essential to a phenomenon like universal gravitation. Inversely proportional to a squared term (distance, very important) and all....

Gravity itself doesn't seem to affect earthquakes either. We know that from time series' of earthquakes and tide cycles. Even if the gravity was large enough, the friction from two plates of crust, in contact with one another, and slipping in different directions, is the defining factor.

Not all fault boundaries are slipping in a vertical direction against one another, those that would benefit most from a increased overhead force of gravity. Strike slipping faults move horizontally, and dipping faults move vertically.

Ever tried to bang a wedge between two pieces of attached wood? That's what the majority of fault lines are like. It's very rare to find one straight up and down (that would most likely mean two plates with equal mass distribution, and densities, and many other factors) which is more like pulling a nail out with a hammer..

You don't even need to be a scientist to give credulence to this argument. You just have to think about things logically, and have access, or know where to find good sources. Plenty of non-scientists can learn that well enough to discern the crap from the crapola.

The most important is the scientific attitude and mentality, before the dictation and lectures. ​

This means one should not take any word in lectures and textbooks as absolutely true as if revealed from God and infallible; because as were the ancient wrong in some of their ideas, the recent people may also fall in many faults, but the science is to correct, investigate and study. And the scientist should never discard any idea or opinion unless proven false. ​

We had once a professor in surgery; he taught us many practical rules like: "Don't forget to ask yourself why." And concerning the thinking and clinical examination, he said: "Don't believe except yourself." He means: Don't let others think for you, neither do imitate others in any way, but depend on yourself and your judgment of the condition.​

To this professor, who died recently, I presented the Arabic book (The Universe and the Quran), and said to him: "The author of this book is not graduated at any school; he merely writes and reads Arabic." He said: "Not necessarily, not essential at all." But I did not see him afterwards to know his reaction.

About the relation of the total solar eclipse in causing some earthquakes – this was my personal opinion, after observing many strong earthquakes following the total solar eclipses.​

Then I saw that a researcher from Jordan also said that, and gave another explanation, which I don't remember.​

But as to the cause of the earthquake see this in the book of (The Universe and the Quran) by the late interpreter Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al Hilly:​

"Earthquakes and volcanoes occur because of the gases present inside the Earth, under high pressure. These gases issue from the fire that burns inside the core of the Earth. ​

[The earthquake]:
The gases rush but cannot find an exit, so the Earth surface will tremble and quake, and the severity of this quaking is related to the degree of that pressure. ​

[The volcano]:
But when there is much of the liquefied materials in the core of the Earth, they will try to get out, and when the crust of the Earth yields, then the volcano will erupt."​

http://universeandquran.741.com/My%20Webs/new_page_3.htm#Earthquake%20and%20Cleavage​

eanassir
http://universeandquran.741.com​

 

[darkbeaver]

However, in a footnote Eddington reveals the fundamental limitation of his theory of stars: “The difficulty is to account for the escape of positively charged particles; unless charges of both signs are leaving the escape is immediately stopped by an electrostatic field.” This statement will reverberate down the years as one of the gravest mistakes in science. It is an ELECTROSTATIC model of an isolated, self-contained star. But stellar magnetism is an ELECTRODYNAMIC phenomenon, requiring electric currents flowing in circuits beyond the star.

Lightning and electrical discharges are a form of plasma and research into plasma was going on while astrophysicists were developing their one idea about stars. But their tunnel vision kept them from becoming aware of it. When they did notice, they only took in a flawed, incomplete form known as ‘magnetohydrodynamics,’ which, as the name implies, treats plasma as a magnetized fluid. Their training does not give astrophysicists the authority to judge an electric discharge theory of stars.

Nowhere will you find any reference to electric discharge in cosmology. The subject is not taught in astrophysics. Research into plasma discharge phenomena is the domain of the largest professional organization in the world, the Institute for Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE). My paper on electric stars was published in the IEEE Transactions on Plasma Science, Special Issue on Space and Cosmic Plasma in August 2007. The IEEE recognizes and supports plasma cosmology. Electric stars fit seamlessly with plasma cosmology and electric galaxies.

 

[darkbeaver]

It does have a lot of charged particles, but "full to the brim" is a bit over the top. Most of it's empty of charged particles except on the quantum scale where things seem to pop in and out of existence in positive and negative pairs, but it takes very delicate instrumentation and careful work to detect it (look up the Casimir Effect). Overall it appears to be electrically neutral because there are equal numbers of positive and negative charges. I read some of that electric universe stuff you pointed me to once, and didn't find any particular merit in it. Electromagnetic forces are 36 orders of magnitude stronger--that means 1 followed by 36 zeros, 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times stronger--than gravitational forces. If they were really what's controlling the large scale structure of the cosmos, that is, if there were significant charge separations on astronomical scales, it would be a very different place than it is, and probably uninhabitable.

"that is, if there were significant charge separations on astronomical scales, it would be a very different place than it is, and probably uninhabitable.[/quote]"

It is already very different place then what is assumed. Every living thing in the universe passes current Dexter.

 

[Tonington]

The big bang itself is not law by any means. Gravity is a weak local force eclipsed by electrical magnetism, if it isn;t redundant to use the words together even.
http://www.holoscience.com/

The big bang of course is not a law, but that doesn't make it any less of a scientific discovery. Laws are often expressed as simple mathematical formulas. How would you make a simple formula that can explain the entire universe and all of the varied interactions between matter and energy? It's not doable, not with current knowledge. The unified theory is, in my mind at least, a pipe dream.

Gravity is dependent on distance, so as you get farther away the effects are less noticeable. Eventually they get to the point where our accuracy and precision of measurements means we can't really say anything substantive about it.

It's not redundant, but it's irrelevant to compare such fundamentally different forms of energy.

Funny thing is, it's not always conforming to the rules and thinking by the numbers (Sheesh, that sounds like a religion!) that discovers the big prize.

No, but to have your new insight accepted, and followed upon (the citations in new papers, furthering human knowledge), it needs to be shown with the pedantic details of an entomologist examining fossilized tree beetle dung. You can't continue from new discoveries if you can't replicate what lead to said discovery, and that's where the notes made on the consistency of beetle scat mean a great deal. Lack of credentials doesn't mean that someone can't be detailed, though. Those credentials do serve as a fine first filter. Academic journals as another. Ultimately, it's how often your work is cited that serves as the defining measure of the finding. That isn't conformity, that's simply using the best available method for a very particular application.

 

[eanassir]

I think if there were any one god, we would need an update for the parables by now. Most are woefully out of date, and without any current meaning. The stories I read of any god indicate to me that he or she would want to correct these kinds of mistakes. When was the last time any god let us know we were being punished?

The new heavenly book will come when the old ones have been distorted; this is the Quran: it came to correct the mistakes and distortions that occurred in the Torah and the Gospel.

The Quran is the last heavenly book; it is dynamic and alive. It is applicable in all circumstances and in all affairs of life, in the past, the present and the future.​

The new interpretation of the Quran will be like a new instruction and a new revelation; it gives it a time extension.​

About the relatively little amount of science that man has achieved till now; it is like a drop in an ocean, or a dust particle in a vast desert; to God it is only so little; this is in the Quran 17: 85​

وَمَا أُوتِيتُم مِّن الْعِلْمِ إِلاَّ قَلِيلاً​

The explanation:
(And you [people] are given only a little knowledge.)​

It means: Whatever knowledge you are given, it is only very little in relation to the infinite and absolute knowledge of God.​

eanassir
http://universeandquran.741.com​

 

[Kreskin]

I wonder if religious writings would've survived if, when originally written, there was an understanding of the world and universe as there is today.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

It is already very different place then what is assumed.

I've no doubt that's true. It's a very different place from what it seemed to be a century ago, or even 50 years ago, thanks to the things science has learned about it, and if the history of science is any guide, I expect that'll continue to happen. But what we know now will turn out to be an approximation, accurate and useful within definable limits, just as what we knew 50 and 100 years ago did. Nobody uses general relativity to calculate spacecraft orbits, for instance, Newton's equations for gravity are perfectly satisfactory even though we know they're not quite accurate. In the limiting case of relatively low energies, velocities, and field strengths, where most of human experience lies, certain quantities can be ignored as being insignificantly small and Einstein's equations reduce to Newton's. General relativity is conceptually very different from the Newtonian view, which certainly has philosophical and epistemological implications, but it doesn't affect the utility or accuracy, within its limits, of Newton's work. It still provides an accurate and correctly predictive description of what happens in most circumstances we're likely to encounter.

Every living thing in the universe passes current Dexter.

I have no idea what it means to pass current in that context. I do pass certain things of course, but current doesn't seem to be one of them. There's no zap when I stand in front of a urinal. Since the only living things in the universe we know about are all right here on this planet, that seems a pretty heroic assumption though. I know the human body runs on something like about 10-15 watts of electrical power in the brain and nervous system, and certainly electricity is equally important to any critter we know about that has a nervous system; is that what you mean?

 

[eanassir]

And you do? It is to laugh. I suppose 7 years of university and a 30+ year career of continuous learning and dealing with things technological and scientific counts for nothing, while your dogmatic insistence that the Quran must be right even when it's demonstrably wrong counts as a proper scientific attitude.

You studied science, and surely have a deal of scientific knowledge,
but your words against the Glorious Quran are not correct, and you came to things that the science till now may not have reached to its exact solution, and taking into consideration the science has not discovered and known everything;
therefore, tell me in precize words where the Quran is wrong.

 

[Kreskin]

Who wrote the Quran and when?

 

[talloola]

I wonder if religious writings would've survived if, when originally written, there was an understanding of the world and universe as there is today.

If people had a 'present day' intelligence and understanding of the world then, as we do
today, no one would have written that nonsense, they would have known better.

 

[Scott Free]

Who wrote the Quran and when?

"The Qur’an was written down by Muhammad's companions while he was alive, although the prime method of transmission was oral. It was compiled in the time of Abu Bakr, the first caliph, and was standardized in the time of Uthman, the third caliph. The Qur’an in its actual form is generally considered by academic scholars to record the words spoken by Muhammad because the search for variants in Western academia has not yielded any differences of great significance and that historically controversy over the content of the Qur’an has never become a main point. [21][22] Therefore all Muslims, Sunni or Shia use the same Qur’an."



"According to Shia and some Sunni scholars, Ali compiled a complete version of the Qur’an mus'haf[2] immediately after death of Muhammad. The order of this mus'haf differed from that gathered later during Uthman's era. Despite this, Ali made no objection or resistance against standardized mus'haf, but kept his own book. [45][48]
After seventy reciters were killed in the Battle of Yamama, the caliph Abu Bakr decided to collect the different chapters and verses into one volume. Thus, a group of reciters, including Zayd ibn Thabit, collected the chapters and verses and produced several hand-written copies of the complete book. [49][45]
In about 650, as Islam expanded beyond the Arabian peninsula into Persia, the Levant and North Africa, the third caliph Uthman ibn Affan ordered the preparation of an official, standardized version, in order to preserve the sanctity of the text (and perhaps to keep the Rashidun Empire united, see Uthman Qur'an). Five of the reciters from amongst the companions produced a unique text from the first volume which had been prepared on the orders of Abu Bakr and which was kept with Hafsa bint Umar. The other copies already in the hands of Muslims in other areas were collected and sent to Medina where, on orders of the Caliph, they were destroyed by burning or boiling. This remains the authoritative text of the Qur’an to this day.[50][51][45]
The Qur’an in its present form is generally considered by academic scholars to record the words spoken by Muhammad because the search for variants in Western academia has not yielded any differences of great significance and that historically controversy over the content of the Qur’an has never become a main point. [52]"
Wikipedia

 

[Kreskin]

If people had a 'present day' intelligence and understanding of the world then, as we do
today, no one would have written that nonsense, they would have known better.

I think you're right. Ever notice none of those magical mystical spiritual events happen any more? No one parting the Red Sea etc.

 

[Scott Free]

I think they do happen it's just people have a better understanding of what happened. We could easily claim this or that disaster was because this or that god was mad because we didn't listen to this or that nut job screaming about god on some street corner somewhere. In point of fact some televangelists in our own culture do claim such craziness.