That number is wrong. It is derived from reports by the US military which admits it doesn't keep track. It is a complete fabrication.
U.S. war resister granted stay of deportation order
- Thread starter Praxius
- Start date
That number is wrong. It is derived from reports by the US military which admits it doesn't keep track. It is a complete fabrication.
Last I checked being stupid wasn't a crime though...
now fraudulent misrepresentation on the other hand...
If your logic that stupid people should not be offered the same legal and contractual protections as regular citizens?
but 1.2 million, + 5 million displaced for 5 years... thats accurate?
Even though its not possible.
Do you know what that kind of deathtoll would be? 6.2 million if you've got 1/4 of the population displaced in a desert AND a warzone.
About 6 million out of 20 million (as Kurdistan is largely out of the picture).
Thats 30% of the population, thats like the black plague ripping through Europe in the middle ages when giant piles of rotting corpses lined the streets and could not be buried fast enough.
That video you showed didn't have mounds of corpses in the street.
For more perspective.
That is more people dead than the entirity of the allied casualties in WWI. If people running into machine gun nests, over landmines, through mustard gas (after being shelled for 4 days) for 4 years over the face of all of europe kills less people than Americans driving around one tiny nation in the middle east (which was also fought over in WWI),
Then the Iraqi's must be killing themselves just to break a record.
Not to nitpick, but the Allies lost over 5 million killed in WWI.
Belgium 45,550
British Empire 942,135
France 1,368,000
Greece 23,098
Italy 680,000
Japan 1,344
Montenegro 3,000
Portugal 8,145
Romania 300,000
Russia 1,700,000
Serbia 45,000
United States 116,516
Austria-Hungary 1,200,000
Bulgaria 87,495
Germany 1,935,000
Ottoman Empire 725,000
http://www.english.emory.edu/LostPoets/Casualties.html
Your point still stands.........this was four years of war in which men, by the tens of thousands, ran into the muzzles of machine guns......to say nothing of artillery and gas and bombs and strafing and sniping from the English channel to the Swiss border......
That is why we have courts and the judicial process to determine the right and wrong ways.
BTW, some coward anonymously posted negative rep points because I wrote an honest opinion on the subject. See how some of these right wingers think? If the coward is so brave, why not indicate their name and explain themselves out in the open?
You bet:
How many Iraqis died? We may never know. Some observers are pressuring Pentagon to put forth an informed estimate
"We don't do body counts," Gen. Tommy Franks, who directed the Iraq invasion, has said."
"A London-based Web site, www.iraqbodycount.net, has been keeping a running estimate of Iraqi civilian deaths, based on media accounts from the battlefield. Its figures -- a minimum of 2,197 deaths to a maximum of 2,670."
This is old but the policies haven't changed. I'm just showing that since no record was being kept since the start every number we hear is an estimate. One estimate (guess) is as good as another really. High or low neither is right but one thing is certain: any estimates by the aggressor is sure to be inaccurate and ridiculously low. Bush isn't about to admit the American people have so far committed the largest holocaust of the new century. He just isn't going to admit that. given the estimates of displaced people, however, it is already a matter of fact. Now we're just bickering over the heinousness of the crime.
You know what else is certain, anyone with an "official figure" that is against the war with over inflate the numbers to ridiculous numbers, as you pointed out above Scott Free, the numbers were so absurd they were impossible. They may have well said "12 billion people in Iraq were killed today"
You know how you know its not a new holocaust? Because the country has had genocide before and we know what that looks like, and this aint it.
You know how you know its not a new holocaust? Because the country has had genocide before and we know what that looks like, and this aint it.
Different game, different players, different rules. Do you think people who want to commit genocide would want to repeat the mistakes of others who did the same? Tactics change, new lies are made...... we'll soon see soon enough one way or another.
Again you are taking this guys word as fact and truth. You are just saying...
"The recruiter lied...this contract is null and void."
What if the deseter is FOS? What if he is saying it to save his butt? All one needs to do is go to the contract that he signed and no where does it say that Robin Long does not have to go to Iraq.
Agreed...inflating the numbers has always been a part of this crowd. Also crediting every kill to the US has been their MO. Every person that has been killed in sectarian violence has been added to the inflated unofficial US body count.
And that is why we have civil courts. The military does not triumph over civil law for non-military personel.
And seeing as the question is: Is he even military personel or is the contract void, it would be a question of civil law.
Now the question becomes, will he get a fair trial or will he be forced to adhere to military law and brushed off as "just a deserter"
I think there is alot of evidence the latter would happen, enough to grant him the opportunity to stay like anyone else. Lets face it, we don't know if most refugees would actually face any sort of retribution. Alot probably wont, but we give the benefit of the doubt.
As he does have a decent case other than "Im a deserter", and its unlikely he'd get to have his agreement fairly validated, I have no problem with him staying.
Again though, I have no doubt he isn't too bright, or a terribley good or useful addition to Canada. But I see no reason he should be forced into the "spirit of the law", when we'd have no problem shafting him with the letter of the law if that worked against him instead.
He is clearly a member of the armed forces.
He is in the military. Just because he says the recruiter lied is no proof or evidence that his contract is void. That is why he is in the brig and no civil judge is coming to his rescue are they?
he will get a fair trial. If he is found guilty doesn't mean he didn't get a fair trial. He went UA, went to Canada and after 30 days he became a deserter. it is pretty much a slam dunk case.
Well that point is mute now. He is in the brig in Colorado awaiting court martial and like I said, no civil court or judge has come to his rescue. Why is that? Because his claim that his recruiter lied as a defense is baseless and no excuse to desert the Army.
Again...he is no longer in Canada. He even broke a couple of laws up there if you have followed the case.
He is either not too bright or just a liar. I do not think he would make a good member of Canadian society if he is one or the other. But once he does his time in the brig, gets his Bad Conduct Discharge and set free the good people of Canada are welcome to him as he has pretty much screwed here in the US.
As much as I disagree with the illegal war in Iraq, I have no time for this mental midget. Sooner we throw him the **** out, the better.
Also, we've wasted 6 pages of thread on him.............8O
Whatever.
Also, we've wasted 6 pages of thread on him.............8O
Whatever.
No. Not if you breached the contract. It isn't just the US government who can end his service in the forces through his breach of contract (not showing up, ie deserting, or, being gay, etc).
He can end his duties if the US government breaches the contract. He claims they did and have enough evidence for a civil court.
Inability to get a fair trial is why we have refugee systems. So yes, in the future a civil judge in Canada could come to his rescue or someone elses. The law is the law, and if we get technical, American law really mattered jack **** to him while he was here.
If the US government voided his contract, hence he isn't military. This is why they sent him to Colorado. Its much like how the government used to ship people around in the military to get around statutory rape laws by moving to places with different ages.
You really don't get it do you. Its not a defense to desert the Army, in California its a defense that you are no longer in the Army.
1.) If you flee to Canada AND are in the army, it is desertion.
2.) You are in the army, if you sign a valid contract.
3.) Therefore, it is not possible to desert if the contract isn't valid.
It would be no different than charging someone who never enlisted (or was drafted) with desertion.
No civil judge is coming to his rescue because he is in COLORADO not CALIFORNIA where he enlisted. And there is probably good cause too.
And then he can be charge for them, the same as any other American Civilian.
And maybe we will, I also think you over-estimate his change in career in the US. The US isn't very high on the list of Economic Upward mobility, so his life won't really be affected, as any job he'd get will be alongside illegal migrants one way or the other.
By avoiding getting killed, or worse, injured, he's actually got a shot at a better job. Because no one hires crippled soldiers to pick fruit anyways.
When Saddam gassed the Kurds I knew about it because the US was trying to make a case for war. I noticed in their "case" they failed to mention the "no genocide act" and their complicity in the act of genocide. In reality that was just the first act of genocide the USA participated in though they would deny it - a denial that even a kindergarten school child could see through!
Now we see a second genocide and once again the USA is denying their role. "We don't keep track but the numbers couldn't possibly be that high," they say. The USA has no proof the death toll isn't that high. They just spew rhetoric that it couldn't be! Well, why couldn't it be? What proof do they have? I know exactly what proof they have - none; they just wish it wasn't.
The estimate of 1.2 million is backed by evidence and enquiry. It is the finding of an enquiry. It isn't so precise as US wish thinking :roll: (sarcasm). The USA hasn't even enquired! I suppose they are too busy still hiding coffins from their own people.
How was the govt in breach of contract? Oh because he said "the recruiter lied". Yeah...that is going to stand up in court.
Oh sure...it happens all the time. You always hear of a member of the US military ending his duties on his own because he feels the govt. is in breach of contract. Get real Zzarc.
Yes. Obviously Canada thought he was going to get a fair trial so they sent him back. Canada may be allowing some to stay, but eventually they will all return home or be returned home to face the music. Robin was the first to be sent home but others have returned to the US on their own. Well American Law is very much a part of this kids life now!
How did the US Govt void his contract? Because the deserter says...
"My recruiter lied"
Oh yes...that is surely a reason to void a contract...on the word of a deserter.
Maybe the Canadian Military moves rapist around...the US Military sends them to Leavenworth Kansas.
I get it. You don't. You are saying his signed military contract is ALL VOID because he is now saying that his recruiter lied! All those papers he signed that said he will follow orders etc. are void because of his saying...
"My recruiter said I didn't have to go to Iraq."
Is that in his contract? NO
Is that EVER written in a contract? NO
Oh but because poor little Christopher Robin is in a jam we have to believe him and void HIS contract over all of the millions of other contracts.
Lets make Robin Long different...let's void his contract because he says he was lied w/o any proof, any evidence...lets just take his word for it.
Contract IS valid.
But he did enlist....
Contract is valid
Robin Long is from Idaho. He is in Colorado because that is where his unit is and where he will be court martialed. There isn't a judge in California, liberal or conservative that could save Robin Long if he was from there. He is facing military justice as he was in the Army for two years as he joined in 2003 and deserted in 2005.
Now you are just showing that Canadian arrogance that we US folk are always accused of.
So the US will become an agricultural nation once again? :roll:
For whatever reason someone might have for wanting to avoid participating in war crimes I think Canada should support them and offer them solace.
What complicity was that? The USA sold Saddam nothing that had anything to do with chemical weapons. In fact, the entire extent of the support supplied to Saddam by the USA, when Iraq was at war with America's No. 1 bad guy, Iran........was some millions worth of spare parts, trucks, etc. In fact, the US government discovered and stopped a huge sale of "agricultural" chemicals to Saddam during the war.
For chemical weapons, and the required technology and chemicals to produce same, the major suppliers were those holier-than-thou anti-Iraq peace niks, France and especially Germany (they had lots of practise with Zyklon B).
Saddams acts against the Kurds were a direct and intentional attempt to destroy a people and a culture. That is genocide.
There is no such thing going on in Iraq now......full stop.
The estimate of 1.2 million is backed by dick-all but the wishful thinking of the left...........
Sorry to ruin your delusions with a dose of reality...
So it would have been better if he acted like a coward and faked an injury instead of standing up for his moral principles?