From what I understand, the Seventh Fleet had been entirely based in San Francisco until Japan became increasingly beligerent in the Pacific. The fleet was split and half went to Hawaii to forestall a Japanese attack on the mainland.
Wolf
Vietnam...
- Thread starter s_lone
- Start date
From what I understand, the Seventh Fleet had been entirely based in San Francisco until Japan became increasingly beligerent in the Pacific. The fleet was split and half went to Hawaii to forestall a Japanese attack on the mainland.
Wolf
We still needed a strong military. We had to have one. But, the US Military was not like it is today. Basically the Japanese bombed our old Battle Wagons and aging aircraft. The days of the battle ships were pretty much doomed the moment the carrier borne Japanese planes dropped their first torpedo in the water. For the most part anyways. There were no Grand Battleship fights as predicted by both sides. The Japanese battleships were pounced upon by carrier aircraft when found just like Japan did on Dec 7.
Curiosity- the US were VERY busy in SE Asia in general- the reason stated by the Japanese for attacking Pearl Harbour ("justification" if you will, and there's plenty of re4latively objective sources to back this up, just look into it) is that the US was repeatedly mucking about Japanese territorial waters, and after what happened in the Phillipenes the Japanese were justifiably concerned (not saying that the attack itself was justified necessarily, but wars have started on slimmer pretexts than this- see "Iraq")
There were factions in Japan which favoured going for the whole hog and destroying Washington, but the reality was that such an attack would be impossible, so Pearl Harbour became the target, the idea being to take out the forward operating base of teh US in the south pacific- I don't doubt that had the attack NOt happened, Japan would have come under fire somehows, tho declaring war in retaliation for Pearl Harbour was likely MUCH easier to sell to the public than the alternative sales pitch- which would have been joining forces with China to help them put down the JApanese invasion of tha manchurian peninsula- rather be protecting "US interests" than helping the dirty godless commies eh??
There were factions in Japan which favoured going for the whole hog and destroying Washington, but the reality was that such an attack would be impossible, so Pearl Harbour became the target, the idea being to take out the forward operating base of teh US in the south pacific- I don't doubt that had the attack NOt happened, Japan would have come under fire somehows, tho declaring war in retaliation for Pearl Harbour was likely MUCH easier to sell to the public than the alternative sales pitch- which would have been joining forces with China to help them put down the JApanese invasion of tha manchurian peninsula- rather be protecting "US interests" than helping the dirty godless commies eh??
It looks like the Aussies beat us both to it! They declared war an hour after the attack started... although it wasn't formerly declared until Dec 9th.
God bless Ausse! I'd heard that because they and New Zealand were on Singapore too. The signal would have gone at the same time - but Ottawa is a more round-about route for communication that still relied on cables. Nothing backs an Ausse from a scrap....
Wolf
Wolf
I guess the Australians and the New Zealanders felt their battleground would be the Pacific and were no doubt prepared for what happened....just not knowing when it would....
Spoken like a true revisionist. It had NOTHING to do with us being in their territorial waters. Their navy was stronger than ours. It had everything to do with us being a threat to their expansionism and their need to TAKE BY FORCE the natural resources that were not available in the home islands. Resources that they needed for their war of aggression in China and elsewhere. Resouces for the Greater East Asian Co-prosperity Sphere which basically meant the subjugation of East Asia by Imperial Japan.
What happened in the Phillipines? I can't wait to hear this.
Here... your hatred for the US is so great that you defend Imperial Japan.
Eaglesmack- sorry I don't feel like digging up stuff that'll just be ognored since you obviously aren't into real history, but here's the wiki entry
WIKI on the Phillipenes
Se, Filipinos revolted against the Spanish, and took their country back from them save for Manila- THEN the Spanish sold the couintry (which they basically had already lost) to the US.
The US went to get what they "bought" back in a brutal fashion
I suppose this too is my "hatred for the US". Can't think ANYTHING of other countries with long fascinating histories, like say Japan. Your wordview is a weird xenophobic paranoia cocktail, must suck to be like that- notice I have used no anti american ANYTHING in my posts in this thread, it';s the facts man and you don't like 'em cos you're a frothing-at-the-mouth nutbar- again, not hatred, just the truth.
Defending Imperial Japan is no worse than defending the curent Imperial US presidency and it's global actions, seriously
WIKI on the Phillipenes
Se, Filipinos revolted against the Spanish, and took their country back from them save for Manila- THEN the Spanish sold the couintry (which they basically had already lost) to the US.
The US went to get what they "bought" back in a brutal fashion
I suppose this too is my "hatred for the US". Can't think ANYTHING of other countries with long fascinating histories, like say Japan. Your wordview is a weird xenophobic paranoia cocktail, must suck to be like that- notice I have used no anti american ANYTHING in my posts in this thread, it';s the facts man and you don't like 'em cos you're a frothing-at-the-mouth nutbar- again, not hatred, just the truth.
Defending Imperial Japan is no worse than defending the curent Imperial US presidency and it's global actions, seriously
No, I didn't know that, but consider the fact that 2,500 of our troops were attacked in Hong Kong on Dec. 7. People are far too quick to forget that it was NOT only Pearl Harbour attacked on Dec. 7.......that was simply the most important attack as it was the one that brought the massive power of the USA on-line on our side..........the end of the Axis was inevitable from that moment on.
I kinda overlooked Hong Kong. Her Christmas Day fall is a tale I've heard many times. It does emphasize Japan's might at the time - simultaneous strikes on the Philippines, Hawaii, Hong Kong and Singapore - and all of them sucessful....
Wolf
Thanks, Curio.
I had a cousin (from the Boston area) who served as a gunner on a slick......a troop carrying Huey. He was a little older than I, and very good friends with my older brother. Came back without a scratch, didn't even talk about what he had done until 1984 when he showed us a bunch of 8mm film he took......interesting.
Right, you know, I KNEW that when I was making my post, so I stand corrected, thanks for keepin me honest Colpy- Tho no mater who was in power, calling the Chinese "friends of the US" in any meaningful way probably would have been laughed at whenever it had occurred- again, speculation, but some of the history between various countries would be too complex to properly reconcile, I do believe
Other than that, while it might not have been the sole reason, it was pretty good timing- China would have eventually taken Japan, especially once the failure of the Manchurian conquest had solidified leaving Japan with nothing. China REALLY wanted Japan, and to that end, being one of the population superpowers, I think the US must have known that if they didn't take Japan first by hook or by crook, their best chance of controlling that part of the world would have vanished
I am not on either side of this one, not calling names like SOME folks, just adding what I know of various aspects of the situation- it certianly is NOT nearly as cut-and-dried as some folks have been brainwashed into believing, and I'm not even saying that what I post here is any sort of gospel, but I DO know whereof I speak.
Again, thanks for readin my post and the correction, Colpy
Colpy: "US military support for him in the war against Iran was miniscule, and they simply DID NOT (can I say that again?) DID NOT have ANYTHING to do with his development of chemical weapons or nuclear capability."
http://foi.missouri.edu/evolvingissues/iraqgate.html
http://foi.missouri.edu/evolvingissues/iraqgate.html
What's more logical Colpy?
The U.S. military provided gas masks and ordered large numbers of body bags prior to engaging the Republican Guard becasue:
A: Saddam Hussein had technical and materiel support imported from China (those lucky Chinese...invisible to satellite reconnaissance) while the U.S. "we know where those weapons are.." (Colin Powel and Donald Rumsfeld....
B: Dual use technology approved by various American administrations was known to have contributed to Iraq's war with Iran (and against Kurds) although the chemicals and constituent elements provided/sold to Iraq were "intended" for agricultural use....
C: Like the many and varied instances of U.S. participation in arming regimes and practicing "regime-change" all over the planet...only the most perverse and misguided would believe that technology and equipment supplied to the Iraqi government might serve some other purpose than the greening of Iraq's deserts?
D: Supply and procurement policies at the Pentagon undertook troop supply without consideration of years of U.S. support for the Saddam Hussein regime in its war against one of America's avowed "enemies"?
The U.S. military provided gas masks and ordered large numbers of body bags prior to engaging the Republican Guard becasue:
A: Saddam Hussein had technical and materiel support imported from China (those lucky Chinese...invisible to satellite reconnaissance) while the U.S. "we know where those weapons are.." (Colin Powel and Donald Rumsfeld....
B: Dual use technology approved by various American administrations was known to have contributed to Iraq's war with Iran (and against Kurds) although the chemicals and constituent elements provided/sold to Iraq were "intended" for agricultural use....
C: Like the many and varied instances of U.S. participation in arming regimes and practicing "regime-change" all over the planet...only the most perverse and misguided would believe that technology and equipment supplied to the Iraqi government might serve some other purpose than the greening of Iraq's deserts?
D: Supply and procurement policies at the Pentagon undertook troop supply without consideration of years of U.S. support for the Saddam Hussein regime in its war against one of America's avowed "enemies"?
Do you have a source for this? I have read articles detailing American gov't seizure of dual-use chemicals sold to Iraq by private American companies........but never anything on the supply of such chemicals by US gov't agencies.........although considering the first case, I would probably consider any such shipments by non-belligerent US gov't agencies as simply gross incompetence and naivete.
Ahhhh... so that is why the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. Because of what happened in 1899.
:lol: <-- Me laughing in your face.
Anything to spin to an anti-US thread. You are so predictable.
Dude, history doesn't start whenever you say- China and Japan had been at war for huindreds of years before the US was even thought up, many of the countries in SE Asia had dealt with each other for centuries before the US showed up. Laugh all you want, I guess it's easier to laugh than to acknowledge that your own country isn't perfect for folks like yourself, you really do represent some of the worst parts of "Ameritude"
I never said the US was perfect but you like to blame the US for EVERYTHING! That is representing the worst parts of Canadatude that Americans are finally getting wind of. The simple fact that you try to justify the attack on Pearl Harbor as a neccessity because the US MADE them do it just shows that you are willing to take anyones side over the US. The Japanese attacked the US so they could invade the whole South Pacific which they did (immediately) once the US 7th Fleet was out of the way... albeit temporarily. They wanted to TAKE resources to support their imperial ambitions.