If free will governs the outcome of actions on earth what is the purpose of the master plan ? Fate?destiny ?
How can we get rid of our sinfulness?
- Thread starter sanctus
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LOL It's the guilt angle .
Original sin is a basic to many Christian sects and communities . The Omnicent god placed a tree in the garden that he knew Adam was going to be tempted into eating then he gets mad at Adam for what he already knew was going to happen and sends him to earth . The Idea of someone inheriting the sins of their father is barbaric and dam unreasonable no justice system that I know of on earth condones this but it's a staple of faith to a lot of christians never the less.
Love. which is meaningless without free will.
and btw, free will doesn't govern anything. we're in charge of it, not the other way around.
Can't disagree with you there . Choices shape the world our choices their choices and probability .
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Explanation: God created the story of the tree of knowledger of Good and evil to show us in very simple terms what it means to eat of the fruit of that tree.
A child is born and is as innocent as Adam, but as ity grows up, it begins to eat of knowledge.
It learns both what it is to do good and what it is to do evil.
So, good or evil is not a creation of God, but of our own making. We have that choice.
Knowledge is made avialable and we decide.
Peace>>>AJ
here we go....yikes a roonio ..watch this guy lie....he has to in order to hold onto the god is all mercifull routine in his belief system. uuuu god would not create evil....and free will...he created that too according to you people...to free will what? stuff btw good he created and evil....who created?....Certainly not "MY" GodBut God did not create evil, we did.
Dude...there was nothing according to you people and your beliefs.....but God ..and then he started to create...and create and create...then took a rest.....
Now you tell me what part of it did he not create?
evil is part of the package....it came into being after your God created everything....how can you say he did not create it.....
I nearly got tossed from high school for having this discussion with a priest...who then also had to lie to end said discusion...he couldn't handle it either.....cause then the whole thing falls into....like this god is some kinda sociopath to create this whole good and evil game we call life....why would anyone but a sociopath do so......
so mr.sanctus You are saying evil just sort happened in your creation myth?
Sounds like a hatred of intelecutals to me. The regimes that have in the past accused and eliminated intelectuals have always fallen away like so much chaff.
Honestly it sounds like something someone would make up to deal with difficult questions that may lead to doubt and the inevitable eventuality of God not making any sense at all.
No, that is not what I am writing. That is what you wrote. (Note, I did not "say" it to you at all
)However, to the point, evil came as a result of man's inability to live according to what God required. From the creation of the first people, God walked in harmony with us. WE choose to embrace evil all on our own, in that we tried to become as God.
Good observation! It's as anything else in life, we have a choice. When we make a choice, there are always ramifications to living that choice.
Not quite. The "tree of knowledge" was not an actual tree. It is a metaphor. The idea is that God provided us with life and a world He had created. His hope was we would walk in full communion with Him. As time went on, the first peoples began to explore the self-centred perspective. They sought, in essence, to become as God.
No, that is not what I am writing. That is what you wrote. (Note, I did not "say" it to you at all
However, to the point, evil came as a result of man's inability to live according to what God required. From the creation of the first people, God walked in harmony with us. WE choose to embrace evil all on our own, in that we tried to become as God.
ok, well i got confused i guess .Here is the post reply I thought you were talking or replying to me:
In any case...Can we start over then....I won't argue the semantics and waste and further time.....
I say to you,sanctus, your Catholic God as you have stated he is in another thread....Your Catholic god belief system would imply if this creator of everything did indeed create everything then evil would be included in that creation.....I do not understand how Catholic priests have argued the point that God did not create evil..They always avoid answering , not unlike what you just did to me i might add, and never tell me who created evil...
For evil to exist , it had to be created. Well from a creationist point of view.
Now the true nature of anyone that would actually create evil is a sociopath...So are we at the hands of sociopathetic God...what angle can i use to appease this maniac . I've dealt with a maniac before and know there is no way out but with useing fear, a stronger ally if you will to thwart off any more attacks from the maniac.....
but alas what fear could place on the creator himself...uuuuu this convo just forced me to blaspheme...i used him in respect to defining God....yikes ..Note to self...You have learned your lesson before....stop slumming with catholics in intellectual debate....you dirty yourself....
* stands back and watches sanctus try to evade the question like the rest of the parasitcal horde*
Ah the man in the derby steps up to bat and tpyos....I sentence (pun accidental) you to an hour of scolding from panglos....
here have a cuban you'll need it for afters.
Doc
Remember Sanctus is also walking his own path and can relate only his interpretation of his learning and what he has been taught to follow.
It is his choice that he believes but it is also the choice of each of us what we wish to take or discard in our belief systems as long as we are on a path of open discovery.
So challenging Sanctus is merely challenging what he writes of his own pathway - we must find our own and it isn't in argument with his.
There are dozens of ways to find great healing and passion for life during our time on earth... if we seek on our own and listen to our heart and head.
Remember Sanctus is also walking his own path and can relate only his interpretation of his learning and what he has been taught to follow.
It is his choice that he believes but it is also the choice of each of us what we wish to take or discard in our belief systems as long as we are on a path of open discovery.
So challenging Sanctus is merely challenging what he writes of his own pathway - we must find our own and it isn't in argument with his.
There are dozens of ways to find great healing and passion for life during our time on earth... if we seek on our own and listen to our heart and head.
no problem...i was just joshing ya...hey you wanna put ? marks in that go ahead....but for moi it is a statement...I was raised/schooled in a Catholic backgorund..i've paid me dues big time..i have every right to call these people out ....
ahh the ever sweet spring wind of my heart talking to me and yet to everyone...yer too kind.....lol...
look i embarked on a subject of who created evil....lets see if sanctus speaks to Us.
I may not be ordained and I may not even be Catholic any more but I still consider myself part of the church in some form or another (I'm sure Sanctus has issues with that but I'm also sure he has more important things to worry about and so do I) so when you call out the "parasitic horde", I'm there.
So what's the question?
Of course it wasn't! To know good and evil is to be like as God.
Here is a verse that of all things, the serpent speaks, or is it a real serpent?
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
The day one eats denotes a time of understanding where by we are able to make choices for good or for evil. (Age of accountability, depending on intellect?)
Not only did the serpent speak but Jesus did as well:
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
There we had both the serpent and Jesus declaring the same thing.
So knowledge gained (Be as gods)is to have our eyes opened as the serpent said, and to be sanctified as gods(Set apart)by the Father , is what Jesus said.
Are those two working in concert?
After all, God is the one who placed the tree of knowledge in the midst of the garden.
Will I get stoned for this?
Peace>>>AJ