Look just love the way you think and explain your ideas, excellent sense of humor you have got
How can we get rid of our sinfulness?
- Thread starter sanctus
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Look just love the way you think and explain your ideas, excellent sense of humor you have got
Of course not..there are no grey areas..either you're in the Church or you're not.
Carnal mentality there m_levesque!
Spiritualy mentality, is to see all souls as brothers and sisters.
Now, if we are to have fellowship one with another, it would have to be spiritually.
Carnal mentality limits fellowship to decreed dogmas. Either you are with me or your not, sort of mentality.
You notice that I always argue with reference to Christ, and you always in referance to the church?
As long as you make reference to the church as an instrument for brotherhood, then your right.
As long as I make reference to Christ, as an instrument for brotherhood, I am right.
Which one view do you prefer?
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
The Church and Christ are one. You don't know this, I know, because you are outside of the true Church.
You can not see it still . Christ church is spiritual, not earthly! Christ's church resides in the heart.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Says you, but not says the Bible. Christ established many things for us, including the priesthood and the Sacraments. He also established His Church. Yes, there is a spiritual element to that, but there is also a physical entity as well. A corporate, actual collection known as the Church. To the Church Christ gave the authroity to dispense the Sacraments and to safeguard the faith. All of this is in your Bible, but you will of course interpret it incorrectly for the truth does not suit you.
My Lord Sanctus, don't I know that? How in the world do you suppose I know allot about Him?
Surely not by some church!
I read and study the word the bible and in there I find that Jesus is my Savior. There I find He offered His life for mine. There I find who God is, and what He has done in His Creation. There I find all I need to know about Him.
I need to belong to no church to find what the bible says! Yes, the churches (Plural) are instruments by which many are lead to God, but are not the savior of mankind, Jesus is.
You and I become His instruments of choice to administer His love by our words and actions.
We are in the "know" and by His choice we are gifted with certain degrees of knowledge of His kingdom so as responsibly deliver that message in love to the world around us.
It so happens that you are a priest and I just a laymen. But we are both charged with the same message and bound by the same two commandments.
I can accept your position as priest in the Catholic church, but you can not accept my position as a laymen outside the Catholic church.
If Christ is our common bond, then why should we be at odds? Seems to me that I am not the one with the problem but you.
I speak of Christ, love and compassion for all, and yet I find no common ground with you.
Are you really a priest of the most High God, or of the Catholic church? There is a difference you know.
I mean, I can have fellowship more with an unbeliever, than I can with you. Odd picture, wouldn't you think?
What did the Lord say: Mat 11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
Sodom though sinful, stood a better chance of being saved than those who had the responsibility to carry God's witness to the world.
Likewise, if we claiming to know and love Christ, have the responsibility to follow His commands, and to fall short of that, Sodom would stand a better chance than we.
Require no one to adhere to any man made doctrine, but only to that which Christ came to deliver: 1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Apart from that, there is no other message, but man made ones.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
AJ, just becuase you write the word "Christ" and fill your posts with quotes from the Scriptures means nothing. "Many shall call His Name but He will only answer those He knows"(paraphrasing)
If you truly were in Christ, you'd be in His Church, as He instructed. Be that as it may, continue in your delusion that you know Christ according to the Church of AJ.
Would it be a sin to visit a non-Catholic church just because you have nothing else to do and you're not going to take communion or otherwise participate except for maybe just listen to the music?
Would it be a sin to visit a non-Catholic church just because you have nothing else to do and you're not going to take communion or otherwise participate except for maybe just listen to the music?
Why would you even think that way? I'm not Catholic, but what is it with you guys that you just don't deal well with other churches? Like I went to my cousins wedding at a Catholic Church and the priest actually told everybody that, basically, only the Catholics could have communion, the rest of us could go get a "blessing"! What's up with that anyway???
In turn, Sanctus, if you'd be in Christ, your spirit would agree with my spirit and we both would have communion in Christ.
But, as it is, there is no communion of Christ between us. Why?
Communion = two people having fellowship in the same spirit as the other.
Communion with God = is having fellowship with Him in His spirit
Breaking of bread, and drinking of the wine = is a symbol of communion amongst ourselves in the same spirit of Christ.
We are the body that is fragmented (Symbolized by the breaking of bread) as like His body was beaten to a pulp, and the wine (Symbol of spiritual life) is the life blood that was shed for us, unites the fragmented body into one body.
If one wants to have real communion with God, than give your heart to Him, and He will find abode in you.
He will not turn you away, regardless of how sinful you have been or are.
He will turn your life around if you give Him a chance.
He is there, ready for you, go to Him now, why wait?
Today, is the day of your salvation, not tomorrow.
Call on Him today, right now, and tell Him you want Him to come into your heart and begin a new life in you.
This process is very simple. Just ask Him, and wait on the promptings of His Holy Spirit to lead and guide you through the steps.
Remember, He starts from within and begins to sweep out your house (vessel) to take away those desires that so bounded you.
And works to set you free.
When He thus begins, He may lead you to the Catholic Church, the Baptist Church, the Mormon Church, etc. Where ever He needs you, there is where He will prompt you to go.
You become His instrument of service to Him.
Blessings>>>AJ:love9:
Would it be a sin to visit a non-Catholic church just because you have nothing else to do and you're not going to take communion or otherwise participate except for maybe just listen to the music?
It is not a sin, but not always advisable. I tend to advise my own people to not make a habit of visiting non-Catholic "churches". It very much depends on the type of community you are visiting and the purpose for visiting.
Translation, if I agreed with you I'd be in Christ. And that my friend is the issue. I agree with Christ, and His Church. I do not rely on my own opinions in matters of faith, but rather conform myself to what Christ has taught us in His Church.
You rely on your own self-interpretation, and that is why you fall into so many, shall we say "interesting" non-Scriptural/Traditional interpretations of the faith.
It is a matter of one of the meanings of "communion". The message in the word itself. We cannot come to his altar pretending "communion" when some are outside of the Church. the eucharist is not a "public meal", but a symbol of unity in Christ in His Church. That is why we do not allow non-Church members to partake of our Communion.
I would have to agree with Sanctus on the Eucharist. One can not be a non-member of any organization and expect to have the same rights as the regular members.
But, as concerning membership in the real Church of God, which is spiritual, one only needs to accept Jesus as the head of that Church and give Him due honor and respect as the Head of that Church.
Therefore, I should be able to have communion (fellowship) with like kind believers in Christ.
Lets get together and break bread,celebrating His death and resurrection and in His honor, as we are the recipients of His wonderful gift: salvation.
Take the word church out of the equation to where all you have is two souls who believe in the same God, can those two have communion (fellowship) one with another and God being the Host?
That is what Christ came to do! Is to make one body His Church, a spiritual church, whose temple is our hearts.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Where then lies the temple if not a spiritual one and God Almighty and the lamb (Reptresentative of all of us, the body of Christ as "the" church are the temple not made with human hands.
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
"My new name" is Jesus, meaning God's salvation, in the New Jerusalem which is come down from heaven, abode on earth and now sits forever our salvation in heaven and our hearts being the
stones fitly joined to make up that temple, His Church.
Now, all that was established at Calvary, and all who join that spiritual church are truely saved beiginning the moment we join by acceptance of that gift of life in Jesus Christ our Lord.
Did I in all that fail to mention any earthly organizational church? Hummmmmm?
Wonder why?
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
The Church is not an "earthly-created" organization, as you mentioned. It was established by Christ. Can we break bread in communion together? Sure, once you return to His Church. In your present state, never.
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Well, there you have it! The church earthly is to you more important than Christ heavenly.
Meaning, that your heart is not Christ's, but the churches, though you say it's not so.
Failure to have communion with me solely on Christ's honor, can only be because of division.
The body of Christ thus is divided (as broken bread), as you and I are, and we both failed to drink of His cup (Blood coverage) in unity, because of our own desires to hold on to the earthly substances.
The cup of wine, representative of the blood of Christ which covers all souls is not being drunk by us in communion in His honor.
I will drink the cup of communion with you in His honor by sharing Him with you, solely on the spiritual level.
Where as you will not have communion with me in His honor because it is on the earthly level that I am supposed to conform to. (Which of the two is greater, the earthly or the spiritual?)
If for example, if you and I were marooned on a remote Island, you being a priest and I being a protestant, could we both kneel and pray to the same God with the same expectations of being heard by God?
Would wee not both make up the church?
Here is a scripture verse that I would surely employ in that condition: Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
We would both then be having communion with God, regardless of if or not we belonged to any earthly church organizations.
You see what I am trying to show here? The heart is where it is, my friend, not the earthly buildings or earthly organizations.
By God's definition, if an earthly church organization has no heart, then that organization is a false one.
1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
There it is........ my friend where all transactions occur between God and man.........in the heart.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
ARE YOU PURPOSELY MISSING THE POINT DANCTUS KEEPS TELLING YOU OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER..THE CHURCH IS NOT AN EARTHLY ORGANIZATION..DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT???
Would it be a sin to visit a non-Catholic church just because you have nothing else to do and you're not going to take communion or otherwise participate except for maybe just listen to the music?
Why would you want to visit a non-Catholic Church??? Do you enjoy being with heretics????
M_levesque, if that is the case than, why does the Catholic church by your judgment require me to be a member of it before I can have fellowship in Christ's church?
Jesus tells me that all I have to do is come to Him and I shall be saved!
Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Mar 1:17 And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men.
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Isa 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.
How simple it is to come unto Jesus and yet because of our own prejudices, we fail to have fellowship one with another.
You said it correctly that the Church of Christ is not an earthly organization, but you don't realize what you are saying, for if you did, you and I would have communion (Fellowship) in that heavenly Church which is in our hearts.
I say the same to you as I did to Sanctus, as long as you insist that I become a member of the earthly church, we can not have fellowship. For the earthly church (Catholic) demands my will to it rather than will to Christ.
If you noticed that all my posts are Christ centered? While yours are Catholic Church centered.
When you are able to make the distinction between the heavenly and the earthly church, you shall have rest.
Peace>>>AJ:love9: