Catholic Discussion

Sparrow

Council Member
Nov 12, 2006
1,202
23
38
Quebec
I may have my bones to pick with the Catholic Church but there is absolutely no way that I believe the Pope is an anti-christ. However there are a few other that I could name to that post.
 

china

Time Out
Jul 30, 2006
5,247
37
48
73
Ottawa ,Canada
joephantom
It is was seperates us from animals, that we can control our impulses and do not need to be enslaved to them.________________________________________________________________________

Who told you that, Could you be more specific ?

that we can control our impulses and do not need to be enslaved to them._________________________

My friend ,you will always be enslaved to that which you control .
 

El Barto

les fesses a l'aire
Feb 11, 2007
5,959
66
48
Quebec
This is a hot topic that sofar has gone well and civil.
this could of easily gone the other way.
With that in mind I will do the same and try my best to keep it that way. BTW Mary G your post of feb.12 11:32 to show that humble side of you, you have earned some respect with me.
Will be back with a statement. later
 
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temperance

Electoral Member
Sep 27, 2006
622
16
18
I don't "church" but do believe in the fellowship ideals --I see community centers in big city's replace church in a way or add to --by offering a place with fellowship on numerous topics Community centers might be a alternate then you can worship personally ,,There must be other that agree with you in town ? worship with them yes /no ?
 

El Barto

les fesses a l'aire
Feb 11, 2007
5,959
66
48
Quebec
I'm a Christian, but I'm not a big fan of organized religion. Organized religion is a man-made, not a God-made institution, and has all the foibles of a man-made institution.

Plus it interferes with the NFL on Sundays.
Yes a little homour well placed. and dido want to post something more indetail but lost my train of thought after I ate.
 

AndyF

Electoral Member
Jan 5, 2007
384
7
18
Ont
look3467:

" ....that ye may know that ye have eternal life"

"if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved"

"Can you believe that?"
Certainly. But it is not an offering on a platter. What this scripture is saying is if I could put it in modern day terms:

"Look you numbskulls:)), ok,ok he wouldn't have said numbskulls!) I(Jesus) came and offered up my life for you guys because you were all in bad terms with the Father. So in order to put you back on good terms with Him, I offered myself in sacrifice to clean the slate, and the Father found that acceptable. So now don't blow it and peave him off again, because that's the last time I'm going to do it. It's up to you to remain clean after that and only if you can stay clean will you be saved."

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ"
So it's ok for someone to murder and he is still saved because he believed in Jesus?
Of course not, what this means is, if he practices that belief.

Believing and working are two different things.
Yes, and both are required.

(I'm not going to scripture quote as I don't feel like it today, so if I don't get the exact quote you know why.)

Jesus said "Those that say Lord,Lord" What he says here is those who run around and say they believe and only do partial duty such as only praying,etc are only paying lip service. They need to get out and get their hands dirty doing good works also. This is what he also meant by others "carry his cross". They need to emulate his life on earth.

To be saved according to the verses above, one must believe.
Metaphoricly, put your money where your "heart" is.

And believing can only be done spiritually

That is the "IN" thing today, and some religions say that is all there is to do. "The less I can get away with, the better".

As I said, sitting around in front of a tube for ten years "believing" while
the soup kitchen needed a hand all those years won't amount to a hill of beans for a defense excuse at trial day.

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1150.htm

1150: Signs of the covenant. The Chosen People received from God distinctive signs and symbols that marked its liturgical life. These are no longer solely celebrations of cosmic cycles and social gestures, but signs of the covenant, symbols of God's mighty deeds for his people. Among these liturgical signs from the Old Covenant are circumcision, anointing and consecration of kings and priests, laying on of hands, sacrifices, and above all the Passover. The Church sees in these signs a prefiguring of the sacraments of the New Covenant.

Nothing wrong with circimcision even for Christians.

But Paul is saying that even if you are a true Jew without the circumcision, it still profit them nothing.
Of course not, ya gotta get your hands dirty. Some Jews thought that because they were the chosen people, that's all that was required.

Can you see what it is saying? Believing from the heart is what gets us saved!
Yes, I understand, but more is called for. Believing is the foundation, or if you will the frame of mind/heart in which you embark on Christ's work. The remainder is charity, good works, penance and loving God and neighbour "with thy whole heart".

AndyF
 

marygaspe

Electoral Member
Jan 19, 2007
670
11
18
76
joephantom
It is was seperates us from animals, that we can control our impulses and do not need to be enslaved to them.________________________________________________________________________

Who told you that, Could you be more specific ?

that we can control our impulses and do not need to be enslaved to them._________________________

My friend ,you will always be enslaved to that which you control .

We don't have to be told, it is common sense. Our minds can control anything we allow them to. As he said, we are not animals living by instinct, we are people living by reason.
 

sanctus

The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
4,558
48
48
Ontario
www.poetrypoem.com
A Revival Of Christian Culture Through The Family

By Jennifer A. Gregory


Man is both a physical and spiritual being. He must use his lifetime on earth to find and achieve his ultimate end which is eternal life with God in heaven. The Catholic Church helps man with this goal, providing an outward liturgy to help him understand his faith and keep focused on the spiritual end, teaching him how to be in this world but not of it. The word liturgy is of Greek origin meaning public work or service. In the Catholic Church, liturgy is the public and official rites or services of worship owed to God. This includes primarily the Eucharistic Sacrifice of the Mass, the Divine Office and the administration and use of the sacraments. The Catholic liturgy is the life, the very heart of the Church. It is a mystical re-presentation of the life of Christ, the Christian mystery, or mystery of eternal life . . . concerned . . . with the redemption and regeneration of humanity by the Incarnation of the Divine Word. The liturgy reflects the historical cycle, the sacred history of creation to redemption.
The Church has organized the liturgy into a cycle which reflects the redemptive work of Christ. This is popularly called the liturgical year but it is understood as a cycle, or a never-ending circle. This cycle is divided into two parts, the first being the temporal cycle (tempus: time or season), which is more important and dominant. The temporal cycle is the Christ-centered mysteries that tell the story of redemption through the seasons of Advent, Christmas, Lent, Holy Week, Easter and Ordinary Time. While the temporal cycle unfolds, the sanctoral cycle (sanctus: saint) simultaneously exists. These are the feast days of Mary, St. Joseph and the saints throughout the year.
The liturgy of the Catholic Church is the true basis of Christian culture and civilization. As Christopher Dawson describes it so succinctly:
"Christian culture is the Christian way of life. As the Church is the extension of the Incarnation, so Christian culture is the embodiment of Christianity in social institutions and patterns of life and behavior. It is the nature of Christianity to act as leaven in the world and to transform human nature by a new principle of divine life."
In medieval times society's culture was integrally linked with the Church and its liturgy. This culture was all inclusive: individual and society, the intellectual and material, belief and morality, art, custom, and law were formed and brought to life with a Christian outlook. Today, the tie between Christianity and culture is all but lost. Today the world is dominated by a pagan, materialistic, secular, anti-Christian civilization. To restore Christianity, there needs to be a complete change in culture; a complete transformation accomplished by a vigorous living out of a true Christian spirit by living out the liturgy.
This renewal of Christian culture through the liturgy should begin at the roots, and the family is the original cell of social life. The family is a Church in miniature or the domestic Church a living image and historical representation of the mystery of the Church. As the first and most important liturgical community, the family can live the liturgy in the home, sharing with the life in the Church. Through a revival of earlier customs and traditions, with additions and modifications applied for the modern family, the family can bring back an integrated Christian culture. Two ways to incorporate the Church's liturgy into the domestic church are by providing an atmosphere for prayer and spiritual learning with visual aids and providing through the kitchen special foods and celebrations.
A first consideration for living the liturgy in the home is to create a prominent location in the home where the family can gather to pray. This can be done with a family altar or table, a kind of imitation of the sacred altar in church. In addition, different simple visual aids such as a crucifix, statues and pictures of Jesus and Mary should be provided in order to replicate the inside of a church.
The altar can be decorated with the liturgical colors according to the season: purple for Lent and Advent, white for the Easter and Christmas seasons, green for Ordinary Time and red for Palm Sunday, Christ the King Sunday and martyrs' feast days. By using one's imagination the table can look very beautiful inexpensively: remnants from cloth stores, doilies or lace from garage sales, discarded sheets, curtains or clothing can be cut up and used. Gold fabric could be used for the special days, like Easter Sunday, Epiphany, to make the altar look extremely festive and reflect the joyful but solemn occasions. For Marian feast days or throughout the month of May different blue fabrics can be used. For a special saint's day, the color can reflect the liturgical color (red for martyrs, white for virgins), or perhaps a special fabric could be used, such as a rich velvet.
Other accessories can be added to the altar, all according to the family's need, usually depending on the ages of the children. Older children can utilize a display stand or book holder that could be used to exhibit a picture or symbols of the saint of the day, or open pages to liturgical art books. The missal or a marked Bible could also be kept there to let the family prepare for the readings of the Sunday or weekday Masses. In this prepared setting of the family altar, the family should pray and read together. The type of prayer also depends on the age of the children, but the rosary and the Divine Office should be incorporated to link the family with the Church's daily liturgy.
Another way to incorporate the liturgy in the home is through the kitchen. Serving special foods on particular days dates back to Biblical times, as in Exodus with the definite prescriptions for the Passover meal. The Sacrament of the Eucharist was instituted by Jesus at a meal. The family gathering for a meal on feast days and sharing the warmth of home and hearth in the name of God is centuries old. Almost every land has traditional foods prepared for special days, traditional dishes with the recipes handed down for generations, many times the whole meal being prescribed by custom, with even the smallest detail being symbolic. Foods can be symbols which lead the mind to spiritual thinking. The foods can be simple or very elaborate; the custom for certain days can be feasting or fasting.
There are traditional foods eaten (or not eaten) during certain liturgical seasons. Lent and Advent are the penitential seasons, with Lent being longer and more intensive. Traditionally Catholics would abstain from all dairy products and meat products, including eggs and all fat. The celebration of Fat Tuesday, or Mardi Gras was a feast before the fast, one last fling before the long forty days of Lent. To use up the remaining fat and dairy products, traditional dishes eaten during Mardi Gras in some countries were doughnuts and pancakes. Then Lent with its strict fasting regulations of the past would arrive starting with Ash Wednesday. Not many options for a dietetic variety remained after the prohibition of so many foods. Pretzels containing mostly flour and water were eaten during Lent, baked into a special shape imitating the crossing of arms in prayer. This would remind the consumer of the prayerful attitude to have during the Lenten season. Good Friday is traditionally a day of the strictest fasting, sometimes referred to as the Black Fast but one food that is traditionally eaten on this day is the hot cross bun. These are simple buns with icing on top in the form of a cross.
There are also many saints' days that have traditional foods for that day, such as the Solemnity of St. Joseph on March 19. Many dishes are made in honor of this feast, especially in Italy where this day is a holy day of obligation. One type of food is the Sfinge di San Giuseppe or St. Joseph cream puffs.
Not only are foods symbolic of the liturgy, but whole meals can reflect the festivity of the day or season. Like the family altar, the dining room table can be decorated with special tablecloths, perhaps in the liturgical colors. The china and silver can be used, and decorations with candles and symbols of the saint or season, such as eggs decorated with liturgical symbols of the resurrection for Easter or shamrocks for Saint Patrick's Day, can be put on display. On Holy Thursday the family can imitate the Last Supper and have a type of Seder or Passover meal but with a Christian outlook that the Messiah has come. A Christian can see the symbolism of the meal, such as understanding the lamb as a symbol of Jesus, the Lamb of God slain for our sins.
These ideas are very general and are in no way all inclusive. They are just a good starting point for the family to discover and incorporate the liturgy in their lives. The family can then pass on these traditions, integrating Christianity into civilization. From these seemingly small beginnings our culture can be renewed.

 

sanctus

The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
4,558
48
48
Ontario
www.poetrypoem.com
Queen of Truth, Queen of Heaven

by John Pacheco

Introduction

Throughout history, mankind has grappled with the most fundamental questions of our existence. Does God exist? What is the meaning of life? Is there an after-life? Beneath these substantial questions, however, is a more fundamental question that pervades and sustains all of these questions. It has become the central, albeit hidden, question in society today, and because it has become so, the pursuit of these fundamental questions, which have long fascinated mankind since his existence, has been principally abandoned in the latter half of this century. The question is this: Does Truth exist? Indeed, for many, this question is problematic since they no longer speak of Truth as an absolute, categorical imperative, but rather only of pluralistic and secular truths. The idea of a singular Truth in moral questions, therefore, has been replaced with a more compromising and 'tolerant' idea of truth to such an extent that the essential meaning of the concept has been saturated to the point of multiplicity and absurdity.
The sharp contrast between the two opposing views of this 'truth' is evident when the question of religion is considered. It is quite apparent to any honest individual, for instance, that people with religious faith believe in an absolute Truth, whereas people without faith usually assign a subjective meaning to truth, thereby denying the very nature of truth itself - its universality. This affirmation is no where better proven then during the Passion of Christ before Pilate. Jesus said, "'I came into the world for this: to bear witness to the truth; and all who listen to truth listen to my voice'. 'Truth', said Pilate, 'What is that?'" (John 18:37-38). "The essential bond between Truth, the Good, and Freedom has been largely lost sight of by present-day culture. As a result, helping man to rediscover it represents nowadays one of the specific requirements of the Church's mission, for the salvation of the world. Pilate's question: 'What is truth?' reflects the distressing perplexity of a man who often no longer knows who he is, whence he comes, and where he is going ... The saving power of the truth is contested, and freedom alone, uprooted from any objectivity, is left to decide by itself what is good and what is evil." 1
The sad state of moral affairs in modern society is, for the most part, a direct consequence of the implicit denial of the concept of an absolute Truth. Furthermore, it is apparent to all that the current age is generally very hostile to religious, absolute moral truth, and conversely, that it is very embrasive of the humanistic ethic which favours moral relativism. In fact, this 'relativist conviction' has been able to successfully separate religion and science from one another to such a degree that it is now widely accepted that these two disciplines are mutually exclusive. Religion and science are now regarded henceforth as two separate and opposing disciplines of revelation instead of two complementary forms for reaching the objective truth.
Although true religion has acknowledged that science should exercise an important role in helping the human race understand both the physical world and our origin in it, contemporary science and secular rationalism insist that they, and they alone, can provide all of the answers without reference or even acknowledgement of religion. As a result, a new religion has emerged in society to provide a dual role: to act as a surrogate for the Christian faith in western society and to provide an effective complement to the secularism which has effectively become the state religion. This fact has become so apparent that government need no longer maintain the separation of church and state but rather science and state, since the former has essentially replaced religion. The fusion of this dual role has resulted in a philosophy of 'scientism' - the belief that science and human reason only have the answers to the truth in all matters of the human experience, both in the physical and metaphysical realm. At the foundation of this movement is "the more or less obvious influence of currents of thought which end by detaching human freedom from its essential and constitutive relationship to truth." 2 In fact, "through the philosophers who begin to give exclusive value to science and then to reason, there is a gradual tendency to constitute human intelligence alone as the sole criterion of truth. There comes to birth the great philosophical errors which continue through the centuries down to [our] days." 3
It is from this secular establishment that an attempt must be made to break the scientism that dominates the collective hostile attitude towards objective truth. The objective moral truth, which has been revealed through the holy scriptures and faithfully interpreted by the Holy Roman Catholic Church, has been manipulated to such an extent by secularists and false religionists that absolute moral truth and God are relegated to folklore and mythology. "But no darkness of error or of sin can totally take away from man the light of God, the Creator. In the depths of his heart, there always remains a yearning for absolute truth and a thirst to attain full knowledge of it." 4 Nevertheless, this moral darkness has succeeded in suffocating and numbing the conscience of mankind that even heaven itself is now warning us of this great spiritual and moral evil which envelopes the modern world. The spiritual balance between good and evil has been upset to such a degree that the physical world is being adversely affected. Indeed, the virtual avalanche of paranormal and religious phenomena, which have been occurring during the past century and in particular during the last fifty years, is a wake-up call to the world's collective rejection of God.
It is in this spiritual darkness, this 'culture of death' which now blinds our world, that a ray of light is beginning to pierce this present darkness. A light that will not and cannot be extinguished from our sights by the powers of evil because it emanates from the most pure and venerable of all God's creatures who is known to the faithful by many titles, including such names as 'mystical rose', 'gate of heaven', 'morning star', 'ark of the covenant', 'queen of angels', and 'queen of heaven'. This beautiful creature, who the poet William Wordsworth once so beautifully described as 'our tainted nature's solitary boast', is speaking to us, imploring us with the greatest urgency to return to God and His commandments.
She is a sign of contradiction and dissension in Christianity, but like so many other signs of contradiction, she is also a source of unity among her spiritual children. It is precisely through this 'woman clothed with the sun', that God will confound the proud and crush the serpent forever. It is through this sign of contradiction and division that unity will be realized, and through which Christ will reign. Many Protestants who do not understand the Catholic devotion to Mary often misunderstand why she is called the 'Queen of Heaven'. There is a presumption that since Jesus is regarded as the 'King' by all Christians and Mary is the 'Queen' for Catholics, they are somehow 'equal' in the sense that a husband and wife are equal. This is not the teaching of the Church, and the title 'Queen of Heaven' must be correctly understood before it can be appropriately applied.
Mother of the King

At the Annunciation, Mary's words help define her relationship to her Son and Saviour. When the Archangel Gabriel announced that she was chosen to be the Mother of God, Mary replied humbly, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word" (Luke 1:38). The very conspicuous word in this reply is 'handmaid' which means 'servant'. In the Old Testament, one thousand years previously, Queen Bathsheba petitioned King David to allow Solomon, their child, to become King over Solomon's half-brother, Adonijah. When Bathsheba reached the King's room, she "bowed in homage to the king, who said to her, 'What do you wish?' She answered him: 'My lord, you swore to me your handmaid by the Lord, your God, that my son Solomon should reign after you and sit upon your throne.'…The king swore, 'As the Lord lives, who has delivered me from all distress, this very day I will fulfill the oath I swore to you by the Lord, the God of Israel, that your son Solomon should reign after me and should sit upon my throne in my place.'" (1 Kings 1:16-17, 1 Kings 1:29-30).
The passage serves as direct prophesy to Christ who was in the line of David and who became King of kings. It also serves as a striking parallel to the Annunciation in the New Testament. Both Mary and Bathsheba are called 'handmaids', indicating their relationship to their Kings; that is, not equal to but servants of the King. In the royal realm, a King can only really ascend to his throne through a proper and true King and Queen. If the Eternal Father is a King, and the Son is truly a King, then it is only fitting and becoming that the Mother of the King should also be a Queen. For both Bathsheba and Mary, both were mothers of Kings: Bathsheba was the mother of King Solomon and Mary is the Mother of Christ the King. The beauty of God's revelation is indeed awesome and majestic when one considers the magnificent transposition of supplication by the two mothers. In the Old Testament, it is Bathsheba who asks her King for her Son to reign, while in the New Testament, it is the Eternal King who asks Mary.
Similarly, later when Solomon becomes King, the full parallel is realized. Bathsheba intercedes with her son King Solomon just as Mary does at the wedding feast at Cana with Jesus (Cf. John 2:3-6). Neither Christ nor Solomon refused their mothers' intercession: "Ask it, my mother, for I will not refuse you." (1 Kings 2: 20-21). If the sinful Bathsheba could make such a request and command such a response, Our Lord would not likely deny His own Mother.
Just before King Solomon uttered those prophetic words, the King stood up to meet his mother, paid her homage, sat down upon his thrown, and provided a throne for his mother, "who sat at his right hand" (1 Kings 2:19). Sitting at someone's right hand implies great power (Cf. Luke 22:69). Is God trying to suggest that Mary sits at the right hand of Jesus as Bathsheba sat at the right hand of Solomon? Indeed, recall the ambition of the Apostles James and John when they asked that Jesus grant them seats at His left and right hand. Jesus' response was indeed an appropriate one, ... "to sit at my right or my left is not mine to give but is for those for whom it has been prepared… Whoever wishes to be great among you will be your servant, whoever wishes to be the first among you will be the slave of all. (Mark 10:40-44). Jesus said the greatest must be servant of all, and the greatest servant of the Master, the 'handmaid of the Lord' at His right hand, was the servant of the Servant for thirty years of His life.
Queen of the King

In Holy Writ, there are a number of comparisons and prophesies made between events and people in the Old Testament and Christ in the New Testament. Unfortunately, these exegeses often by-pass the numerous instances in the Old Testament where valid comparisons between Old Testament women and Mary can also be made. Consider the case of Queen Esther.
In the twelfth year of the reign of King Ahasuerus, a decree of extermination was issued against the Jews. Queen Esther, who had kept her Jewish identity hidden from the king, was overcome with grief since her cousin, who raised her, was a known Jew. The Queen wanted to petition the King for her cousin Mordecai's release, but she could not do so since, to approach the king unsummoned, could be punishable by death. Esther's love for her cousin, however, compelled her to take the risk. When the King saw that Esther approached unsummoned, he was angry. Seeing his Queen's distress, however, he took pity on her and said, "Take heart. You will not die; our order only applies to ordinary people" (Esther 5:13-14). Centuries later, the holy family would set out for Bethlehem to be registered in the census of Caesar Augustus. Indeed, it was ironic that King Ahasuerus would not enforce the law on a tainted Queen because she was not 'ordinary', yet how unordinary Mary was, but how ordinary she made herself by submitting to the imperial edict. And not only did Mary submit to it, but she did so humbly and without ingratitude or insult. It was God's will and so Mary obeyed without question.
"Now it came about on the third day that Esther put on her royal robes and stood in the inner court of the king's palace in front of the king's rooms, and the king was sitting on his royal throne in the throne room, opposite the entrance to the palace. And it happened when the king saw Esther the queen standing in the court, she obtained favour in his sight; and the king extended to Esther the golden sceptre which was in his hand. So Esther came near and touched the top of the sceptre. Then the king said to her, 'What is troubling you, Queen Esther? And what is your request? Even to half of the kingdom it will be given to you'" (Esther 5:1-3). There are a number of details to remark in comparing Queen Esther and Our Lady.
The first thing to appreciate is that both Queen Esther and Mary found 'favour with God'. In the Old Testament, "the king loved Esther more than all the women, and she found favour and kindness with him more than all the virgins, so that he set the royal crown on her head and made her queen…" (Esther 2:17) In the New Testament, the Archangel greeted Mary and said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favour with God" (Luke 1:30). If a virgin is found the favour of a mere human king and made queen because of this favour, are we to expect any less from God Himself was so part of Mary in her womb - 'bone of her bones and flesh of her flesh' (Cf. Genesis 2:23)?
"And what is your request?" (Esther 5:1-3). "They have no wine" (John 2:3). Esther asked if the King would come to the banquet she prepared for him. Mary's request was directed toward the bride and groom at the wedding banquet at Cana. Both involved intercession and both requests were answered. In the Book of Esther, the King is very generous with his queen, promising her half of his kingdom (Cf. Esther 7:2). In the Gospel of John, Jesus shows just indeed how much He loves and honours His mother. He demonstrates it quite conclusively in the power of her influence by granting her request EVEN THOUGH his hour "has not yet come" (John 2:3). The only time Jesus changes His 'timetable' occurred at the request of His Blessed Mother.
Is not God more generous than human kings? Is he not more gracious, loving, and giving than a mere mortal man? Yes He is. In fact, not only is this proper and appropriate view of God appeal to our natural reason, it is also biblically revealed. Christ reminds us that He is the ultimate source of goodness, and gently chastises his listeners for thinking that God is somehow less just or gracious than his fallen children: "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!" (Matthew 7:11). If a fallen and 'evil' king honours and venerates his own mother by offering her so much, are we to expect any less from a perfect, loving, and good God?
Queen of Suffering

The contrast of Mary's love and obedience to other characters in the bible can also be shown by relating the story of Abraham, his wife, Sarah, and his slave girl, Hagar. After the celebrated birth of Sarah's son, Isaac, Sarah became envious of Ishmael, the son of Abraham and Hagar. To prevent Ishmael from sharing in the inheritance of Abraham, Sarah persuaded Abraham to drive Hagar and Ishmael away. "Rising early next morning Abraham took some bread and a skin of water and, giving them to Hagar, he put the child on her shoulder and sent her away. She wandered off into the wilderness of Beersheba. When the skin of water was finished she abandoned the child under a bush. Then she went and sat down at a distance, about a bowshot away, saying to herself, 'I cannot see the child die.' So she sat at a distance; and the child wailed and wept." (Genesis 21:14-16) This passage from Genesis is both a parallel and foil to the passion of Christ at His crucifixion. The striking similarity in both passages of both mothers and sons being abandoned and rejected by their own people is more than evident, considering both Jesus (Cf. John 1:11) and His Mother (Cf. Luke 2: 34-35) were also rejected. The contrast between Hagar and Mary, however, comes in their respective reactions to the children's impending death. While the mother of Ishmael chose to abandon her child to avoid the suffering of seeing her child die, Mary did not put down this cross. She stayed at the foot of the cross (Cf. John 19:25), submitting peacefully to the Father's will and offering her own suffering in a dependent and lesser "co-redemption" for the salvation of the world.
In the New Covenant, Mary fulfilled the responsibilities asked of her, and in so doing perfectly united her will to the Father's will just as Abraham had done in the Old Covenant. Recalling the incident when God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son, Isaac: "Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering, loaded it on Isaac, and carried in his own hands the fire and the knife. Then the two of them set out together. Isaac spoke to his father Abraham, 'Father', he said. 'Yes, my son,' he replied. 'Look,' he said, 'here are the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?' Abraham answered, 'My son, God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering.' Then the two of them went on together. When they arrived at the place God had pointed out to him, Abraham built an altar there, and arranged the wood. Then he bound his son Isaac and put him on the altar on top of the wood. Abraham stretched out his hand and seized the knife to kill his son. But the angel of Yahweh called to him from heaven. 'Abraham, Abraham', he said. 'I am here', he replied. 'Do not raise your hand against the boy', the angel said. Do not harm him, for now I know you fear God. You have not refused me your son, your only son.'" (Genesis 22:6-13)
Abraham's reply 'God himself will provide the lamb…' and the description of the 'altar on top of the wood' are not-so-veiled references to Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, and while God, the Father, did not allow Abraham to sacrifice Isaac on the altar, He did want Jesus to be sacrificed on the cross. Similarly, God did not ask Sarah, Abraham's wife, to be present at the sacrifice of Isaac, but He did want Mary to be present at the crucifixion of Jesus so she could share her Son's suffering more deeply than any other human creature. Mary, like Abraham, accepted the will of God, and understood that her Son would be put to a horrible death, but unlike Abraham, she was not spared the torture of seeing her Son's ignominious and brutal death. As a reward for Abraham's faith, God says, "because you have done this, because you have not refused me your son, your only son, I will shower blessings on you…" (Genesis 22:16-17). Indeed, how much more blessed is Mary in God's eyes for having strong faith and for having suffered for His will (Cf. Luke 1:30). How she must have yearned to utter King David's prophetic words "My son, my son [Absalom]! If only I had died instead of you, [Absalom], my son, my son!" (2 Samuel 19:1)
A True Queen

What are the qualities of a true queen? There does not seem to be much disagreement on this point either from a biblical or secular point of view. The king comes from royal lineage and chooses his queen; she must be faithful and obedient; and she must be queen not just to her spouse, but to her inherited children as well. All of these qualities are fulfilled in Mary. Her spouse is the Holy Spirit, by whose power was conceived the Second Person of the Trinity. God chose Mary through the annunciation of the Archangel. Mary was faithful and obedient to her King, even witnessing His crucifixion. And finally, she was not only favoured by God to be His Mother, but she also became our spiritual Mother by her Son's departing words: "Behold, your Mother!" (John 19:27).
Mary is a sign of contradiction in Christianity. In time, however, this woman 'clothed with the Sun' (Cf. Revelation 12:1) will become a sign of unity which will allow the truth of the Gospel to prevail in our secularized and divided world. The enmity between this woman and the serpent (Cf. Genesis 3:15), who is the Father of lies (Cf. John 8:44), will continue. But ultimately, she, united with her seed, the Christ, will crush the serpent so that truth will once again reign on earth. Perhaps one day, all Christians will be able to lift our voices with the Psalmist, "O Lord, I am your servant, the son of your handmaid…" (Psalm 116:16), and indeed proclaim her as the Queen of Heaven, Queen of Truth, and Queen of our hearts!
+ + + Until then, omnes cum Petro ad Jesus per Mariam…. + + +
 

china

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Jul 30, 2006
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marygaspe:
we are not animals living by instinct, we are people living by reason.

Yeap , people live by reson--- I wish they'd live by an instinct ,like the animals do-- it would be a better world .
 
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sanctus

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Oct 27, 2006
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www.poetrypoem.com
marygaspe:
we are not animals living by instinct, we are people living by reason.

You truly belive that people live by reson???------- wow,I wish they'd live by instinct ,like the animals do-- it would be a better world .

Of course we live by reason. What is the basis of your reference that we should be like the animals?
 

china

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Curiosity:
his is how I am going to have to leave it..... majority rules..... if you figure it out

Not in Canada ,The last Liberal Gov ,led by JC,was elected by less than 39% of the people .The other 61%+ of the people ( the majority ) had to put up with the idiots for 11 years . As far as celibacy goes .....well ,I dont think I'd put up with it for 11ys wether I was in majority or not.
 

marygaspe

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Jan 19, 2007
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It is a lost "art" in many Christian homes, this business of worshipping as a family. When our kids were young, we did all the right things, rosaries, Mass, etc. But not nearly enough as when we were kids!The thing is, that old saying has some truth to it, the family that prays together stays together.
 

china

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Sanctus
Of course we live by reason. What is the basis of your reference that we should be like the animals?

Hi,Sanctus,good to "talk" to you again.
Do you remember when the Boss said ...." man wil live by a word that proceeds from His mouth" ,and His Son who added ..." look at the birds in the sky , they n............ but The Father takes care of them . Well ,that is how animals live ,according to their creation ,we call it an "instinct" and that's only a word with its millions of inerpretations .A man lives by ambition, selfishness ,anger ,lies , deception, whatever else , and a man has self-created a mind that says that its ok to kill in the name of "the love of your country" , the men call it living by reason.Which one 's better Sanctus ?
PS .A dog loves unconditionaly and it dosen't judge.( couldn't resist that sanctus , Happy New Year)
 
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look3467

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Dec 13, 2006
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AndyF
Certainly. But it is not an offering on a platter. What this scripture is saying is if I could put it in modern day terms:
What you said in your whole post shows you have a pretty good understanding because it shows you have read the bible and studied it. That’s more than what I can say for those who have not given the bible its due credit.

But I would like to take the above quote and discuss it with you. I have underlined the part I am referring to.

It is an offering and is called the “Good News”. The reason why it is Good News is that mankind’s soul’s state condition was death. Or, in other words a state of separation from God.

That state of separation (Gap) was bridged by Jesus, allowing us to become “born” of the Spirit of God as in a re-make. Or, like the most un-popular term: “Born again”

Prior to the coming of Jesus the gates of heaven (Brass) where shut and the gates of hell (Iron) kept souls in prison. So both heavens gates and Hells bars where shut.

We are talking in the spiritual realm here of which spiritually speaking, we were lost souls because of that. And for a person to become lost, a person must have to have eaten of the tree of knowledge of good and evil as portrayed by the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden.

A baby or even a toddler would not be bared from heaven because they never had a chance to eat of the tree of knowledge. They are as Adam and Eve prior to eating of the fruit of the tree.

But for all of us who have gained knowledge of Good and evil, well, we discovered (Saw that we were naked) that we were lost because of sin. This sin, being called disobedience is what really separated us from God that caused the death penalty to befall all of us equally. (I’m talking spiritual death here not physical) We all die physically whether we are saved or not, so that does not apply here.

That is why we can not of ourselves save ourselves because we are born of the flesh. And the flesh profited nothing.

But, if we are born of the spirit, we are born of God. Now we can profit from it because the work of saving us was done by God Himself in the form of Obedience and not by our obedience.
That is why we can not mix our works with our faith as a prerequisite for salvation.

It is by faith alone in the works of Christ that we gain Salvation. Those are the scriptures I quoted to you on my last post.

Now, being born again moves us to live justly. We are moved by the Holy Spirit to cleanse us of our fleshly lusts and to concentrate on the heavenly things which are things of God and not things of this world.

That does not mean that we are automatically absolved from all wrong doings or behavior, but merely convicted more seriously to repent from our wrong doings.

This can be a vicious cycle because we still exist in the flesh. The flesh tries us at every turn and we have to learn to govern it’s desires with the help of the Holy Spirit because now we are born of its Spirit.

That is the way salvation is worked out. Working out our salvation means suffering through it to learn, to advance and to become victorious over the desires of the flesh.

As like a child growing up experiencing all the pitfalls of life but yet learning from all of that to become mature adults.

Once: as mature adults than we can stand alone grounded and settled on the sure foundation which is Christ.

That is the object of our being in being born in the flesh. To become conformed to the image of Christ which is: the image of God?

And that image is love. Jesus demonstrated the love of God by Himself being obedient to the Father over the desires of the flesh for all of us. He forgave His prosecutors in being consistent with perfection. If He had not forgiven His prosecutors, than He would have failed at the law of love, and His whole mission scrapped!

All that I said has nothing to do with any religious beliefs or religious organizations.

It has to do with Christ and us, one on one via the Holy Spirit.

Now, if one was brought up as a Catholic, than remain a Catholic, a Mormon, a Baptist or whatever.
The key is to become born again of the Spirit of the living God, and then let God dictate were we should go.

Isa 6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.

Jesus said: “Here am I; send me”

When God wants us to move from here to there, He will cause us to move. And when we have His spirit, then we should obey or experience the trial like as Jonas.
That was my best presentation commensurate with my abilities to communicate in word.

My objective is not to persuade anybody to leave their perspective organizations but to consider the gift of salvation as totally separate from mankind’s conceived notions of having to achieve certain righteousness in order to gain salvation.

Established religion does just that. It requires its members to adhere to its own statues of beliefs and drowns out all others as creditable.

Where as Jesus’ free gift, is unto all who would believe without restraint from any earthly established belief.

Peace>>>AJ:love9: