poking a bunch that could out and out cream them ,
Hey Gilbert please explain in more details .....
All respect No offence
Hey Gilbert please explain in more details .....
All respect No offence
If I'm 5 foot 5 inches, 160 pounds, and armed with a water pistol, there's no way I would constantly provoke some guy who is 6 foot 6 inches, 350 pounds, and carrying a 9mm Glock.poking a bunch that could out and out cream them ,
Hey Gilbert please explain in more details .....
All respect No offence
How well off are the rest of them? (I mean Joe Lunchbucket Palestine and wife).The Vast sums of Aid money the Palestianian Leaders live off is a great reason to keep the place horrid, how much did Arafats wife make off with? Millions? Near a Billion?
Zzarchov said:The Vast sums of Aid money the Palestianian Leaders live off is a great reason to keep the place horrid, how much did Arafats wife make off with? Millions? Near a Billion?
Whatever. The aggression goes back and forth. Neither will leave the other alone. Attach guilt to one side and you have to attach guilt to the other. Aything else is either bigotry or partisan.
...Israeli reservists and soldiers speak out against abuses
"We, whose eyes have seen the bloody toll this Occupation exacts from both sides. We, who sensed how the commands issued to us in the Territories destroy all the values we had absorbed while growing up in this country...We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate, expel, starve and humiliate an entire people."
This is from a declaration issued in January 2002 by 53 reserve officers of the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF). By March, more than 300 reservists and serving soldiers had signed the declaration, and it had over 2,000 Israeli supporters. Three of the signatories had been sentenced to terms in military prisons.
These members of the Israeli military confirm AI’s description of human rights violations by Israeli forces - unlawful killings, as well as beatings, harassment and humiliation at checkpoints. They are not only refusing to commit further human rights violations, they are speaking openly, using the radio, TV, press and the Internet, of human rights violations committed by the IDF.
Serving soldiers are generally more circumspect, but in February one conscript told AI’s delegates - who included a military adviser - "Many of my colleagues would be willing to talk to AI".
AI and other international, Palestinian and Israeli organizations have repeatedly warned that Israeli soldiers were carrying out unlawful killings, when no lives were in danger, and were acting with impunity...
http://web.amnesty.org/wire/April2002/Israel
Yes that is common sense earth, but you do not equaly challenge the "Palestinians" for their actions, all your posts are decidedly biased, your sources as well. Some of which blatantly ignore the actions of the Hezbollah or the "Palestinians", that parcipitated the actions of the IDF, that they are crying about.That is common sense. I was responding to posts which portray Israel as an innocent victim, responding to attacks by Palestinians. My posts show what Israel is up to. Israel has never stopped its ethnic cleansing and Jewish-only settlement building over demolished Palestinian homes and farms. Its reasonable to expect that the people on the recieving end of this kind of treatment will fight back no matter how badly outgunned they are.
Another point was the impact killing unarmed civilians is having on young Israelis most of whom must serve in the IDF.
What are the longterm consequenses of exposing generation after generation to a situation where they can commit atrocities against unarmed civilians with impunity?
Yes that is common sense earth, but you do not equaly challenge the "Palestinians" for their actions, all your posts are decidedly biased, your sources as well. Some of which blatantly ignore the actions of the Hezbollah or the "Palestinians", that parcipitated the actions of the IDF, that they are crying about.
Your avoidance of my question, as to why you feel this is just a land grab, when Israel returned the oil rich Sinia to Egypt, is humourous at best.
I wonder if the Hezbollah or Hamas worry about the impact their actions are having on those people that live in the residential areas, in which they fire their rockets from?...
...I do not agree with all the actions of the IDF nor the Israeli government, but Zionism is DEAD. It is survival now, that dictates Israel's actions. Actions that are in direct accordance to the actions of the Arabs set against them.
When the Arab nazi party fully accepts Israel's right to exist and they prove this by hunting down and punishing those that violate Israel, or cease their shipments of arms to the Arab nazi fighters in the region, we'll talk. Until then you are pissing into the wind.
The Olive Harvest 2004
Holy Land Trust
The annual Palestinian Olive Harvest is seeped in cultural traditions that have been followed for generations throughout the region. From October 10 to 30, Holy Land Trust connected volunteers from around the world with Palestinian farmers in the West Bank to lend a hand and to experience this time-honored tradition.
HLT volunteers worked side-by-side with men and women from Daher's vineyard near Nahaleen village in the Bethlehem District of Palestine. They were introduced to Palestinian village life and the importance of land in the Palestinian culture.
Although the volunteers experienced the simplicity of rural life, these farmers shared stories of how their agricultural life is unavoidably tied to the current Israeli-Palestinian struggle.
The olive grove is surrounded by Israeli settlements, built on land confiscated from these Palestinian villages. And to the East, the internationals observed the additional encroachment onto the land from the construction of the Israeli Wall. The combination of the settlements and Wall on former village land will isolate the Villages from their neighbors and restricted the freedom of movement of people and produce.
At the end of their stay, both the volunteers and the farmers commented on the importance of this joint effort. The farmers emphasized that the volunteers' presence helped to break-down their isolation from the outside world and helped to protect the harvesters from settler attacks which have happened in the past. The volunteers felt they were able to better understand the realities of rural Palestinian life better than if they had just read reports. There was no replacement for a personal experience. More than 20 people participated, representing several countries, including France, New Zealand, Japan, the United Kingdom and the United States.
We hope to welcome back our volunteers from this year and greet new participants for Olive Harvest 2005. Ahalan wa sahalan!
See this article at:
http://www.zatoun.com/about_farmers.htm
http://www.zatoun.com/about_farmers.htm
The Lemon Tree: An Arab, a Jew, and the Heart of the Middle East
BY Sandy Tolan
...I learned that a Palestinian family, the Khairis, had built the house in 1936, and planted a lemon tree in the yard. They lived there until the war, when like almost all the families of that town, they were forced into exile by the arriving Israeli army. The eldest son of that family was Bashir, six years old, who vowed that some day, he would return home with the many other Arab families who were driven out of Palestine.
Four months later, a family of Bulgarian Jews, the Eshkenazis, who had remarkably survived the Holocaust, arrived in the fledgling state of Israel to seek safe haven. They soon found themselves in the town of Ramla, where they moved into a stone home much to their liking. In the back yard, there was a lemon tree. The Eshkenazis' only child was Dalia, who was 11 months old when her parents landed on the boat from Europe.
"As I put together the "Lemon Tree" radio documentary, I was struck by how each family had lived with phantom images -- that of their counterparts, whom they had never met.
For nearly 20 years, Dalia and Bashir grew up not knowing each other, yet in a profound sense wondering about each other: Who lives in my house now? Bashir wondered. What happened to the people who lived her before? Dalia wanted to know. Bashir, as he grew into a young man, grew increasingly committed to returning to his homeland -- by political agreement, or by force; Dalia grew anxious that the Arabs would expel her from the only home she knew, and push her into the sea. In the spring of 1967, with Arabs and Israelis openly threatening each other, both families grew increasingly anxious...
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/blog/2006/06/the_lemon_tree_1.html
The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising was the Jewish insurgency against Nazi Germany's attempt to liquidate the remains of the Warsaw Ghetto in Poland during World War II...
...On January 18, 1943, the first instance of armed insurgency occurred when the Germans started the second expulsion of the Jews. The expulsion stopped after four days and the ŻOB and ŻZW insurgent organizations took control of the Ghetto, building dozens of fighting posts and killing Jews they considered to be Nazi collaborators, including Jewish police officers and Gestapo agents.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising
IfIsrael gets several billion in subsidies every year from the USA. None of us are happy to see that our Constitution's prohibition against establishment is being violated every day. If the government would only obey the law, Israel would not have the money it needs to make war and would be forced to make the concessions that will create peace.
If I had a chance to get out of a country that was constantly being harassed by it's neighbors with bombs, rockets, etc. I'd friggin well leave, too.I have always respected Mr Cramer for his great baseball writings. This book may well be worth exploring.
Years ago I had a friend who was Jewish and from Brooklyn, NY where I grew up. His wife was an ex-lieutenant in the Israeli army. She was a strict pacifist and refused to take up arms. In fact, she would rather have taken a bullet to her heart than to fire upon anyone else. Because of that she was in the medical corps where, evidently, she served with great distinction. Contrary to what many may believe, she felt it was Israel that was the aggressor in the conflict. As such, she could not in good conscience stay in that country and she left it vowing never to return. And she is not alone as thousands of people emigrate from the Zionist state every year!
Perhaps it is no secret why 10 % of Israel's population lives in the NYC area alone!
http://www.cabalamat.org/weblog/art_428.html
Net Emigration from Israel
Mon, 07 Feb 2005, 19:07 UCT People often talk about immigration to and emigration from Israel, but I've rarely seen figures; which is irritating because it's hard to understand anything if you don't know the relevant facts. Recently however I came across this:
Whatever Israel is up to does not cleanse Palestines of their idiocies. Two wrongs don't make a right.That is common sense. I was responding to posts which portray Israel as an innocent victim, responding to attacks by Palestinians. My posts show what Israel is up to. Israel has never stopped its ethnic cleansing and Jewish-only settlement building over demolished Palestinian homes and farms. Its reasonable to expect that the people on the recieving end of this kind of treatment will fight back no matter how badly outgunned they are.
So the only ones killing unarmed citizens are the Israelis?Another point was the impact killing unarmed civilians is having on young Israelis most of whom must serve in the IDF.
I don';t know. Suppose we ask them or the Palestines. Or Irani, or Syrians, or Egypt, or Iraqi, or ......What are the longterm consequenses of exposing generation after generation to a situation where they can commit atrocities against unarmed civilians with impunity?
This historical uprising resembles Gaza today, where the occupation forces are IDF soldiers and the civilians are Palestinian refugees.
If it were me, I'd say I can make room for a few in my olive grove. Not millions, but I have room for a few. Whatever religion they would practise would be none of my business either.What would you have Palestinians do in response to millions of Jewish refugees setting up a homeland on your olive grove which had been passed down for hundreds of generations?
Are you a clairvoyant that you can say this with such certainty?Eventually this remnant communal Palestinian olive grove will also disappear under a Jewish only colony. The IDF will evacuate the area, using as much force as necessary, bulldoze it, put up a wall, and build roads, sewers and condos.
And it's all Israel's fault. I see. :roll:For centuries Jews, Muslims and Christians used to share communal harvests. Now they share death and destruction. Even die hard apologists for Israel's crimes must be able to see how sad this is.
If it were me, I wouldn't stick around and keep the strife going. I'd wander off somewhere else and start my olive orchard.What would you have these people do? Disappear? Whose solution was that? Nazi Arabs or Nazi Europeans? Whose solution is it to wall off Palestinians into little enclaves which are little better than concentration camps. Nazi Arabs or Nazi Israelis?
You sure like to sound as if the entire ME mess from start to finish was the Israelis doing, though. Seems incredibly one sided, to me.I am well aware of the death and destruction on both sides.
Nope. The root is people cannot mind their own business. Can't live and let live. BOTH sides are guilty.But the root cause is injustice and oppression. Little more than 60 years ago, Jews were getting it from Europeans. Now they dish it out to Palestinians and Palestinians react the same way Jews did:
We, reserve combat officers and soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces, who were raised upon the principles of Zionism, sacrifice and giving to the people of Israel and to the State of Israel, who have always served in the front lines, and who were the first to carry out any mission, light or heavy, in order to protect the State of Israel and strengthen it.
We, combat officers and soldiers who have served the State of Israel for long weeks every year, in spite of the dear cost to our personal lives, have been on reserve duty all over the Occupied Territories, and were issued commands and directives that had nothing to do with the security of our country, and that had the sole purpose of perpetuating our control over the Palestinian people. We, whose eyes have seen the bloody toll this Occupation exacts from both sides.
We, who sensed how the commands issued to us in the Territories, destroy all the values we had absorbed while growing up in this country.
We, who understand now that the price of Occupation is the loss of IDF’s human character and the corruption of the entire Israeli society.
We, who know that the Territories are not Israel, and that all settlements are bound to be evacuated in the end.
We hereby declare that we shall not continue to fight this War of the Settlements.
We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate, expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.
We hereby declare that we shall continue serving in the Israel Defense Forces in any mission that serves Israel’s defense.
The missions of occupation and oppression do not serve this purpose – and we shall take no part in them.
http://www.seruv.org.il/defaulteng.asp
Apparently you are ignorant of the experments performed by the Nazis on those they felt were inferior. I hardly think the Israeli subject anyone to the extremes that the Nazis went. That is an incredible exaggeration for you to make.Colpy, The only thing Nazis did to Jews that the Israeli government hasn't done to Palestinians is exterminate them. Other than that Palestinians have suffered the same kinds of humiliation, injustices and oppression suffered by Jews under Nazi occupied Europe.
Non-Jews have to put special licence plates on their cars to identify themselves. Non-Jews have been driven out of their homes into walled in ghettos for non-Jews by angry Jewish mobs and soldiers. The government confiscates homes and property of people of the wrong race/religion and gives it to people of the right race/religion...
Other than extermination, I challenge you Colpy, to find an example of one atrocity committed by Nazis against Jews that hasn't been suffered by Palestinians.
I can see a lot of similarities. So can many IDF soldiers.